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Have just returned from a trip to Italy and whilst there travelled by train between Salerno and Naples and vice-versa.  Having heard good reports about Trenitalia (Italian Railways) I was looking forward to something similar to the efficient service provided by SNCF in France.  However, upon arrival at the station we found that as we were travelling outside of 'rush hour' we would have about a 1.5 hour wait for our train. 
When we arrived back at the station, with around 10 minutes to spare before our train departed we found there was no information whatsoever in English with regards to ticketing procedure (tickets must be validated before travel but machines were not working anyway) and no information in English or Italian on the departure boards.  There were also no staff at all on the station.  We found this very suprising as this is the main station for the Amalfi Coast, linking with Naples and Rome which is reflected in the amount of English/German/French speaking tourists at the station - who were all equally lost.
When there were only a couple of minutes to go before our train we began to worry as no information had yet been displayed.  Eventually the platform number was displayed as '2T' but there was no sign as to where this platform was.  We finally found our platform due to an Italian shouting to the driver of the train, which was on a platform hidden around a corner with no signage whatsoever!
Upon boarding the train, we were shocked as it was covered in graffiti and had plastic 'classroom' type chairs - not exactly what we were expecting for a 1.5 hour journey!  When the train called in at famous tourist sites, such as Pompeii no announcements were made at all which we also found very suprising.
After our day in Naples we headed back to the station, which is located next to Napoli Centrale and asked at the ticket office for information with regards to platform number and time of our train back to Salerno.  We were told the train would arrive on platform 2 in 4 minutes - so we headed for platform 2, which incidentally had a sign saying 'Binario 2 - Salerno'
After we had waited about 20 minutes for our train an Italian who was standing on platform 1 shouted 'Salerno here' so we headed over the bridge in a panic, thinking we were going to miss the train.  30 minutes and 5 trains later - each of which the driver said 'the next one for Salerno' we were wondering about how were going to afford the taxi fare for the 70 km journey back to our resort - then finally the Salerno train came - incidentally, this man was helping out French, German and English tourists and also happened to be the only Italian travelling on the train - I wonder why?!
When we left Napoli Centrale, we spent about 10 minutes speeding up and slowing down before finally getting going to Salerno.  Having arrived at the station in Naples at 6pm we arrived back in Salerno at around 8:30!
Although the trip costs ^6,60 return I would still not advise this as the best way to travel in Italy and would say that trains in Britain are far superior to our limited experience.  I understand that Trenitalia may not all be this bad, we did see some really flashy 'Eurostar Italia' trains outside Napoli Centrale - maybe we are just treated to the mainly clean, modern and efficient service we experience on South West Trains WoEML.

Many thanks for that insite into Italian Railways from your visit.   I note that although n-one has followed up your thread, dozens of people have read it (and people who read it via "most recent posts" don't even get counted in the stats!).

More general note ... posts about wider area experiences are .... err .... very welcome in "The Wider Picture"  :D

From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8615002.stm):

Having been round various cities in Northern Italy in the last week, using a variety of different services, I'm prepared to conclude the system is divided into two classes, but there are plenty of things we can learn from this.

My first journey was on a mixture of Regionale and Regionale Veloce trains.  These are very reasonably priced, typically by distance (e.g. I paid ^15.85 for a 227km journey, approximately 9.67p per mile for comparison to UK prices), with no peak/off-peak times.  The fare is the same all day.  There are no return tickets, only singles.  A ticket is valid for two months and must be validated before travel.  Once validated, it is valid for the period of time shown on the ticket (six hours in my case).  The ticket machines are very intuitive, provided journey details and all available fares.  Wouldn't it be refreshing to be able to have a system like this in the UK?

That's where the positives end for this journey.  Arriving at the platform, the train was an EMU which was covered in graffiti.  The platform information board told me this was "Regionale 24774 Treviglio".  No departure time, no calling at stations, no other information.  The train had no air conditioning (or none switched on/working) and was very overcrowded.  The next two services were both Regionale Veloce services, loco hauled, again very hot, covered in graffiti both inside and out.  None of these services had any announcements, automated or otherwise.  None of these trains ran to time, with no-one particularly concerned by the late running.  During this journey, I did wonder if I should be allowed to complain about my daily commute in future.

My next service was a joint DB/OBB service down to Venice.  I had already purchased a ticket online, however my friend hadn't.  We had some trouble getting a ticket for this service in Trento.  The Trenitalia office and machines will not sell tickets for DB/OBB.  There is a second station which has a DB ticket window, however this is closed on Sunday.  In the end, we spoke to the conductor before boarding who sold a standard priced ticket.  The train was clearly older stock that had been refurbished, but was very comfortable with all manual announcements in German and English (surprisingly no Italian).

Final journey was on a Frecciabianca.  These are what the Italians previously called Eurostar.  The fare was substantially higher (^37.50 walk-up for a 250km journey, however I paid ^19.00 advance in 1st class).  The train was air conditioned, comfortable and had automated announcements in Italian and English.

These journeys actually made me think quite carefully about the British fares system.  Although confusing, once you have bought a ticket, it can be used on any valid train on a valid route.  This is clearly not the case in Italy, where a separate ticket must be purchased for "premium" services.  This was rather annoying on my journey to Trento, where I wished to take the Frecciabianca for part of the journey and DB/OBB for the third leg but ended up on Regionale trains for the whole journey for simplicity.

We are also lucky with the automated announcements.  Yes, we probably have far too many, but I'd rather know where I am than not.  Especially considering Italian railway stations have very few name boards along the platforms (one station we stopped at only had one at each end, nothing in the middle).

When people say Britain would be better off with a state run railway, I think they should pay a visit to Italy and ask themselves what they prefer, especially when you consider the rather dated and uncomfortable local services.

A two teir railway is becoming the norm in Europe.

High speed Inter City with it's own fare tructure and Regional services which are becoming increasingly dependant on local "Council" funding.

Thus in France you have the TGVs and some departments with quite good regional services but in others hardly any.

Germany is more consistent with ICE/IC operated by DB (Fernwerk?) and RE/RB mostly operated as concessions from the Lander by a variety of operators including DB. Many of the private operators have purchased new units for their service. The operators agree to run so many thousand train kms a year.

Generally Regional services in Germany are pretty good and cheap especialy with the Lander tickets which give all day tavel on all local services and some tram systems as well, for up to 5 people for around E30.

One casualty amongst these changes are cross border services especialy local routes. This is particularly true between France and Belgium.

There is also now no through train from Ljubljana to Venice which when when we caught was a Slovinian tilting train. The quickest journey now is train to Villach and BUS!

Just back from 10 days trundling around northern Italy by Regionale local trains for the princely sum of 1 euro for every 10km. Spent 154 euros so that equates to 1,540 km. Used Bologna as a base... terrific,,,,went to Venice twice, Florence 4 times, Ravenna, Siena, Mantua, Verona and Rimini.
Used the Freccirossa to go from Bologna to Florence ( booked in advance through Italiarail) for11 euros and it  takes 30 mins. The more conventional one takes 90 minutes using six to a compartment IC trains, while the find of the week was the 3hr whizz into the mountains between Bologna and Florence via Porretta Terme using these Alstom EMU Jazz trains that are just celebrating their 2nd birthday. Mentioned as a scenic railway journey of Europe in the European Rail Timetable.

Found this article online but the pictures won't reproduce.

THE first of 70 Jazz emus ordered in November 2012 from Alstom by Italian State Railways (FS) under a ^450m contract was on show on March 27 at Rome Termini station.

The train was presented to FS CEO Mr Mauro Moretti (pictured) together with representatives from the Italian regions where the trains will operate.
The trains will be supplied in two different lengths ^ 54 trains will have five cars and 16 trains four cars, and four configurations. The commuter version will have plenty of space for standing passengers, while the regional configuration will have more seats, the regional express trains will have a higher level of comfort, and the airport rail link trains will have a greater proportion of space for luggage. However, the trains are designed so that the internal layout can be modified in the future.

The name Jazz was chosen following an online survey on the FS website, and follows a musical theme adopted by FS for its trains, namely Minuetto and Vivalto. The photo illustrates the striking livery chosen for the trains.

10 feared lost as two trains  collide on a single track railway.
Aerial pictures show several carriages substantially destroyed.

Very sad.

No news as yet re suspected cause of the tragedy.

(source is BBC news site, please be aware that this is a very early report and might later be found to be inaccurate.)

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36774059

Death toll now reported as being 20

Yes, very sad and disturbing.  Reminds me too much of Ladbroke Grove (which I missed by two trains worth).

Now 23....

I've now seen or heard it reported several times that there was no "automatic signalling" system on this line, and that safe operation of the single track section relies on telephone calls between adjacent stations. That might be a telegraphic interlock or token system, though none of the reports suggests that. That does seem a surprise, whatever you think about southern Italy, given that the line was built (in its current standard-gauge form) in 1965.

This Reuters report (http://uk.reuters.com/article/uk-italy-train-crash-eu-idUKKCN0ZT2A7?rpc=401) explains that EU funding has been available since 1999 to double this part of the line, but the Italian way of doing things has so far done nothing to claim it (you are allowed to be rude about that). So perhaps signalling upgrades were held up from well before that, while the project was being planned. Mind you, on other parts that have already been doubled, the signals do look a bit primitive - single aspect?

Common to many European countries the line is reported (BBC) (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36781217) to be Telephone Block which relies on operators reaching a complete understanding.  As this is subject to human frailty, it is destined to fail. Hence our various physical token systems which are harder to defeat. They are not though undefeatable as in the case of Abermule (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abermule_train_collision).

An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-36792246):

From the BBC: (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39357167)

Fortunately this happened at low speed, so injuries were quite minor. As you can see from the picture, it wasn't a cable that the train struck but an OHLE portal. That took out the whole station's traction power, so the disruption has been enormous.

It's being reported as both "Eurocity" and  "Cisalpino", but it doesn't look to me like one of the old tilting trains. Here's another picture, showing what a great place it's in for lifting by crane:
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C7h1h3uXUAAj7VO.jpg)

This picture shows its face, from which I think it can be recognised as an Alstom ETR610 Cisalpino Due with Trenitalia's logo on its nose. So it is a tilter.
(https://d.ibtimes.co.uk/en/full/1601505/lucerne-train-derailment.jpg?w=736)
From International Business Times (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/eurocity-train-derails-switzerland-160-people-board-1613171): Michael Buholzer/AFP/Getty Images.

Now, does that offer a specific explanation of how it derailed? Because it is an odd one - only one carriage involved, and it lurched over sideways far enough to demolish an OHLE portal and finish at an angle of more than 45^o.

So it would appear.  ::)

My thoughts are that this all happened at very low speed.  The only reason that the vehicles "behind" the derailed one are not derailed themselves may be because the train stopped quickly before those vehicles reached whatever (incorrectly set points/track defect/whatever) caused the derailment. 

The swiss investigators (SESE/SUST/SISI/STSB) are quoted as saying the train derailed at points, and they are allowing the train to be mended enough to be taken to its depot in Italy. And, looking at those pictures again, the three carriages after the capsized one are only close to the track, not running on it. Moreover, that track isn't the one the front of the train is on. So a more likely explanation is that the back of coach 4 derailed and/or the points moved under it, so it was travelling slightly sideways and when one of its bogies was blocked it rolled over. But as always, time and investigation will tell.

I wonder if those units have a Swiss or Italian driver?

One hypothesis of course is that it was an Italian driver and they somehow misunderstood a nuance of the Swiss signalling or Swiss German language, and went before they should have, with the points changing beneath the train.

Of course the other possibility is that it was a simple human error.

Learning from experience elsewhere in the world - I wonder if something like this would be useful to a city like Cambridge, where they love to try out innovative technologies.

https://www.amt.genova.it/amt/trasporto-multimodale/ascensori/ascensore-montegalletto/

Apart from the vertical bit, which seems a bit superfluous in Cambridge!

This video (https://www.markpack.org.uk/140136/the-strangest-elevator-in-italy-the-ascensore-castello-dalbertis-montegalletto-genoa/) makes it all a bit easier to understand.

There are other approaches to 2-D lifts. ThyssenKrupp are promoting one using linear motors (look mum no wires!), which they have been demonstrating in their test tower in Rottweil*. There's a video of that  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NBv1bkuj0Ac)too, which shows it working (and there's more in their sales material online too).  I'm not convinced by that as a solution - it just looks wrong, somehow. No doubt other makers are also working on similar ideas - and in the case of Kone, their test facility goes the other way: it's in an old mine shaft.

*Yes, of course it's where Rottweilers come from.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-42816003

it looks as the derailment might have been started by this:
(http://www.rainews.it/dl/img/2018/01/1516880653705.180125_1200__RAN_12.00_frame_10360.png)

The investigation into this accident reported in December 2017, and an English summary of the recommendations has been provided by RSSB (in a summary of recent investigation reports (https://www.rssb.co.uk/risk-analysis-and-safety-reporting/accident-investigation-and-learning/learning-from-operational-experience/latest-rail-investigation-summary)).

If you can cope with the original report, the ERA has a link to copy of it here (https://erail.era.europa.eu/occurrence/IT-5134-26-1/Trains-collision,-12-07-16,-Line-Bari---Barlet/Investigation-details/ERAIL-PUBLIC#).

Thanks for posting that.  Is there anyway of converting an Italian PDF into an English one as I would like to have a read of the full report?

You can try popping bits of text into something like Google Translate - but I find the result pretty wearing to read: it alters my comment above to "if you can cope with a machine translation".

There are several claimed online document translators, some of them free. I just tried onlinedoctranslator.com, and the result is a lot better than Google's efforts. Obviously it still takes a lot of interpreting, for example in the meaning of technical terms, but it does not look impossible. NOTE: Malwarebytes detected an attempt to download "malware", and stopped it - always an issue with something that looks helpful and is free.

Thanks again, STUVING.  I'll give it a try.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-45183624

A little bit railway related as it fell onto railway tracks below.

Initial reports (https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/world-news/europe/two-dead-high-speed-commuter-train-derails-italy/) say that the leading two vehicles derailed, and one struck a building. Two drivers were killed. The train was a very early one from Milan south via Bologna, with hardly anyone on it at 05:30.

The location is a maintenance depot, where there are loops off the high-speed line, one of which connects to the depot tracks, and the building struck was part of this depot.
(https://images.globalsnewsroom.com/images/120705?crop=16_9&width=660&relax=1&signature=2JcCbT-P_bgE7MTgTlNfl_Zg894=)

I was expecting more detail to be reported, and to some extent it has. This from LBC (https://www.lbcnews.co.uk/world-news/91d6ea08aabf4bb781e2d4582ca81888/) has one of those premature-looking statements from a prosecutor, that “the switch was placed in a position it shouldn’t have been”:

This really was a very lucky escape for all those on the train except the two in the leading power car. If that was derailed when it hit a turnout at 300 km/hr, it would have been pretty brutal, as can bee seen by the front end of the next vehicle. The power car pulled that off the rails too and then detached, and set off into the lineside depot, going through an engineering train, and smashed into a building with extreme violence.

This can be seen in an overhead video in this ABC report (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2020-02-06/high-speed-train-derails-in-northern-italy-two-drivers-die/11941338). The collision made a hole in the building, destroyed the front end of the vehicle, which then spun round and finished behind the building.

The rest of the train can be seen to have run between two tracks, with its first carriage on its side, for about 500 m. That is very unusual - the natural tendency of a derailed train is for the leading vehicle to run off to the side, until the extra drag turning it (or an obstruction like OLE supports) makes it jackknife. Once that has happened the whole train will usually concertina or stop very fast and be largely wrecked. So it really was lucky that it all kept running straight and mostly upright.

It seems to have stayed close beside a cable route, resembling a fence. I can only guess that something about the leading carriage's dynamics pushed it towards that barrier, holding everything in line.
(https://www.abc.net.au/news/image/11941402-3x2-700x467.jpg)
The more I see it, the more miraculous that looks.

There's been some very detailed explanations coming out in Italy already - see for example railforums (https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/high-speed-derailment-in-italy.199865/) (which has several pictures). I'll just put here a couple of salient points and corrections.

The end vehicle is not a power car; there are four motor carriages so the mass distribution is pretty uniform. The leading vehicle may have started to roll and to spin from from the start.

The work overnight was specifically to the points that were set wrongly when the train arrived. Its content was to remove the actuator and clamp in the straight-on position, and confirm this. Receipt of the confirmation, plus the absence of any adverse detection inputs, allowed the train to run at line speed. That must be giving infrastructure and maintenance managers (and others) everywhere nightmares.

It's an ill wind ... As a result of the current travel restrictions in Italy, no-one was seriously injured by this spectacular bridge collapse (though I bet the driver of that red van got a bit of a surprise). In this case the railway link is that the defunct station of Caprigliola-Albiano stands right at the east end of the bridge (which isn't in the town of Aulla, despite reports).

From stuff (https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/news/120920779/bridge-collapses-in-italy-newest-crumbling-infrastructure):

I won't ask "what is it with these Italian bridges?" - I think we know the answer, pretty much.

Reports state that a cable car fell from a considerable height onto a wooded hillside.
Early reports suggest 12 lives lost.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219737 (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-57219737)

WARNING link contains images and video of the scene which some may consider inappropriate, but acceptable to quote IMHO as already in the public domain.

Edited to add that later reports state 13 lives have been lost.

Still later reports state 14 lives lost.

Reports as to the proximate cause of the accident are very varied.

Some reports suggest that the cable broke.
Others suggest that the cable remained intact, but that the cable car became detached from the cable.
Yet others state that the intact cable with cable car still attached, fell to the ground due to the failure of a support.

This morning, reports that it was not "just an accident". The operators disabled the emergency brake (clamp) on the car, so that when the tractor cable broke the car accelerated down the support cable towards the next tower. There (in an unknown order) it derailed and struck the tower, falling to the ground. The brake was disabled rather crudely with a piece of metal jammed into the jaws, to avoid doing maintenance work at a time when no money was coming in. Several arrests have been made.

That I find particularly shocking.
Things break, and accidents can never be entirely eliminated, but to deliberately disable a safety feature and leave it like that for some time is simply inexcusable, and arguably criminal.

A brief and "one trip only at reduced speed" disabling of the emergency brake might be acceptable to avoid leaving passengers stuck in mid air. But to carry on running like that is simply wrong.

This Canadian, who is a very experience engineer gives some good incite to the probable cause and effects.

Caution he inclined to use 'fruity industrial' language, so perhaps watch after the watershed

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uCB1xbkn1Ps

I've seen the CCTV footage that RAI broadcast. Shocking. And more so knowing that this wasn't an unforeseeable accident, but one caused by deliberate negligence.

I was watching highlights of Wednesday's stage in the Giro d'Italia, second only to the Tour De France in cycle stage races. The race went parallel to railway tracks for some distance, and for a while a train in "Giro pink" livery was trundling alongside the riders (that is, at 30mph).

Googling "giro d'italia railway train 2024 (https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&sca_esv=35a3d0f5617f2f1a&sxsrf=ADLYWILvyV3HJw5dV3CiAxULx2j1sr_-uw:1715289316252&q=giro+d%27italia+railway+train+2024&uds=ADvngMh-XqMHXKzWaTMtBJmanhm29qfqD_c_e3rOAI85s5YsxXv9cat2kLaHC1X4rQZvaB3Q_ZdKWMia4ZlomblA5iSGKUJmmktzSDV9LS1goVVSzTSZyBL8o8UfMQWOuZg8CbljKJVaJwWDtOJf5l3WRvgg57nvsnFm88a5-Y2uw3b7E-SCpE0wJGygTM5Cmt5AXs75NBy5URyeCfqUnP2CBlGB0iH_qOjKhyVBklfx8_MNaNq2WJ-FvOjERCaudmubeBpUp2cfoQqDjwEY0WtRiC366srFQuxmCxqwAKR9vloLCb2bBJl0Y0m5lKLBdDrN5CjNGPsnFfudrwSXm-6KEN8HIMkdgw&udm=2&prmd=nivmbtz&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiHiIfTvoGGAxUVWUEAHSgIDlgQtKgLegQIDhAB&biw=1395&bih=615&dpr=1.36#vhid=Y0AwBNazB0ODtM&vssid=mosaic)" produced images of a 2022 version.