Great Western Coffee Shop

I am old enough to remember when the railways were nationalised and although they were not perfect they were reasonably effective up until John Major sold them off in a manner that can not be described other than a scorched earth policy, an act of petulant vindictiveness as he saw that his Government was doomed and now, New Labour is so anti public ownership it will never do what common sense cries out for and re-nationalise rail. 
So, rather than ignoring the damage that is caused to the environment by using road transport one is obliged to do the best with what is a pretty awful industry and seek the best fare that one can.
I am now retired so I am spared the daily hell of commuting by rail and being charged an arm and a leg for doing so but I would like to travel to London now and again but I find that the car parking charges are practically as high as the car hating Oxford City Council and that is before paying over three times what it would cost to travel by bus.  However, last Sunday I read an article on finding cheaper fares, advanced fares and I thought how wonderful, that was until that was I attempted to find one for Didcot Parkway and London Paddington. 
I may not be as bright as I used to be but find an advance fare I could not and after a return of many many E-Mails with FGW Customer support who appear not to know the system I am none the wiser.
Do advance fares between Didcot Parkway and London Paddington exist and if so could some kind soul please tell me how I can find them?

There aren't any advance fares, because the ^20 walk up Off Peak Day return is quite reasonably priced! (In my opinion)

There are 6.75 fares (so 13.50 return) from Swindon to Paddington ....

Ts and Cs say


Nothing there about having to go the whole way - just that they're only valid on specific trains.   

And they are eligible for railcard discounts too ...

If you did use that, and boarded it at Didcot you wouldn't technically be valid. If you bumped into a Revenue Inspector they might not be impressed!

Sorry, not legit. Advance tickets must be used only for the journey printed on the ticket, and joining/alighting short are specifically not permitted. Any ticket barrier check at Didcot (and they happen fairly frequently) should refuse to let you through with one of those tickets.

Advance fares tend only to be available for longer journeys, with Didcot-Padd being right on the cusp, I suspect. The flexible cheap day return fare is pretty good value. Also, if you're going to be using the Underground, an off-peak one-day travelcard is an even better deal. This is GBP23 and includes unlimited underground/buses/DLR/trams in zones 1 - 6. Railcard discounts also apply.

Hopefully you may find that you were a little harsh in your initial description of the railways; from my experience over the last few years they have improved significantly and now offer, by and large, a good and reliable service. Don't be too hasty to knock it until you've tried it.

Now, this is where I (and, I think, grahame) start to struggle with this.

How can it be that a valid ticket for a shorter journey (Didcot to Paddington) is more expensive than a valid ticket for a longer journey (Swindon to Paddington) - on the same train?

Surely, that's just yet another example of how illogical, inconsistent and downright silly our current fare system has become?

One argument (which has some merit, I think), is that you're not comparing like with like. The one-day travelcard gives you flexibility in your travel plans (especially at weekends when it's available by any train) and is refundable.

The advance fare ties you to the booked train, no arguments, no changes (well, OK, for a GBP10 admin fee plus the difference in fare, most of the time it ends up being cheaper to just toss the advance ticket in the bin and buy a new one) and no refunds.

It's not so different from other modes of transport really: for example, when I'm flying to/from the US I'll pick up a cheap, completely inflexible economy ticket for about GBP350-400 return if I'm lucky. I could very easily end up sitting next to someone who has paid lots more money (potentially 3-4 times as much) for a flexible ticket. They're sitting in the same cabin, eating the same food, watching the same film as me.

I see the argument about longer journeys sometimes being cheaper than short, but unless you make advance tickets available for every single journey on the system (which, frankly, would be a bit silly - Montpelier to Redland anyone?  ;) ) there has to be a cut-off somewhere in terms of journey length. It just so happens that DID-PAD is on one side of this line, and SWI-PAD on the other. But as I've already said above, in this instance I would regard the "off-peak" ticket as eminently reasonably priced and my preferred option even if there were an advance fare.

With an opening post like that, allow me to refer you to the South Hampshire Rail Users Group who specialise in biased, negative, and largely unfounded chips attachment to shoulder surgery that might suit your 'everything-is-worse-than-it-was' mentality - http://www.shrug.info/ (http://www.shrug.info/)

Hey ... please let's not get personal.

Most of us are jealous / envious of the low fares on offer for day trips from Didcot to London ... 20 pounds seems like a bargain when compared to the 128 pound I am asked to pay to travel from Melksham to London and back (more if I catch the 06:40) on a Monday to Friday.  Indeed - we often 'split' at Didcot from further west to make substantial savings.

So there's an irony and something of a surprise and hurt where a poster asks about reducing that 20 pound fare.   But looking at it, you'll note that I found a cheaper fare from Swindon (I would still love to see a link to the text that says I can't use it for a shortened journey - that IS the same date, timed train).

Basically, Didcot is the boundary of two different fare systems. In from there to London, you have (by further west standards) really cheap buy-on-the-day fares.   And from there out, you have cheaper (by Didcot standards) advanced fares.   Makes sense in some ways - the typical customer wants to plan / book ahead for longer journeys, but 'turn up and go' is more sensible for the shorter ones.  "Can I have an advanced booking ticket from Ealing Broadway to West Ealing please" ... I think not!

So, on the one hand, we are all in favour of "modal shift" from car to rail.

On the other hand, when a potential new customer for the railways makes a genuine attempt to make this shift, and asks an honest question concerning the fares system, which to him appears to be nonsensical, he is confronted with explanations of why actually if you're a rail expert you can see that it makes perfect sense. Well yes, and no doubt if you're a legal expert, the fact that a burglar can sue a property owner for injury caused during his break-in attempt makes perfect sense; if you are an educational expert, the fact that 11 years of schooling leaves many kids barely able to read or write makes perfect sense; and so on.

We all have our own prejudices, preconceptions and chips on our shoulders (well I do anyway) and I don't see the fact that someone else's are different to mine as being a good reason for putting them off rail travel by justifying our fares system. Who decided that train fares must operate like air fares? If it's such a great system, why don't any other countries rail systems use it? Why don't National Express coaches play the same game? Why can't I get a better deal from Tesco's by ordering my groceries 12 weeks in advance?

Normally, a good business model involves giving customers what they want, as far as possible. I do understand the need for demand management, so I'm not advocating ^5 returns from Bristol to Paddington during peak hours, but the current disparities in fares bring the whole rail system into disrepute and no amount of explanation of the historical reasons for it will alter that fact. I know many people who don't use trains because they can't just turn up at a station when they want to travel and get a reasonable fare. They don't want to plan their entire life 12 weeks in advance, and since I don't see why they should want to, I don't waste my breath trying to persuade them to take the train.

Privatised train companies in this country have been exploiting the public for years so if having a view on the pig in the trough concept of running public transport for profit rather than as a public service is biased and negative then so be it.  The destruction of the environment by road users is growing daily and the only way to reverse that is with a publicly owned rail system run for the benefit of the public not private business.
As for ^20 fare plus ^4.20 for parking being a good deal I must have missed something or is the ^8.00 fare on the Oxford Tube a mirage?  The problem of course is that the more passengers Oxford Tube attracts the more damage is done to the environment.

Reminds me of a very old Des Lawson joke ("my mother-in-law is so stupid she thought that she was cheating British Rail by buying a return ticket and not coming back")

Yes it is illegal to join short on an AP, and yes it is illogical if you are of the belief that your fare should in some way relate to the  cost of conveyance over each mile, but that system of pricing fares (essentailly a per-mile price with adjustments for expensive tunnels and bridges and congested sections) was abandoned long ago.   

Perfectly logical if the fares are set by dividing the market into as many sectors as posible (for example, student travelling off peak, family booking in advance,  business person on expenses, commuter, foreign visitor, traveler to Eurostar terminal and beyond, person connecting with ferry, day tripper, disabled user without car, pensioner with free bus travel as an alternative, child travelling to school, etc etc) and then charging each segment the maximum that they are likely to pay or which they think they can get away with politically.

But the whole system is a mess and is being undermined by three things - The resession leading people to be much more cost conscious (including business travelers who it used to be assumed would travel on expensive and oftern first class tickets); and the Internet which is causing more passengers to be more savy; and the TOCS taking some of their fares to rediculous extremes and thereby loosing any respect that they had in such matters and encouraging people to try and find cheaper fares and loopholes for the simple pleasure of denying the TOCs money (this is certainly what happened in my office - plenty of colleagues travelling on expenses decided during the poor recent performance of FGW that they were no longer going to buy open returns.  The tickets were being paid for by someone else but it just seemed wrong for FGW to take such large amounts of money for such a poor service. Many switched to cheap fares or reduced their travelling altogether and now that the service is better very few of them have switched back).   
 

May I suggest you drive to London then, instead of paying the ^20 day return, ^23 Travelcard fare or ^8 Oxford Tube fare. Fuel costs, parking and congestion charge will mean you probably save......(tap tap tap on the calculator)....diddly squat.

I assume you are a 'Senior' as you quote the Over 60 fare for the Oxford Tube. Remember you get no discount whatsoever on fuel costs or parking. A small investment in a Senior Railcard can get you 1/3 off nearly all rail fares, but I'm guessing from your two opening posts that you don't plan to return to train travel on a regular basis. A lifetimes commute (with its heavily discounted season tickets) has obviously put you off.

Oh, and your subject headline was disingenuous. You don't read the Daily Mail do you? ;-)

There are advance fares available for Didcot to Swindon! So, you can get a ^4 Didcot to Swindon and a ^6.75 Swindon to London if you want to travel legitimately. Might be a bit frustrating if the train calls at Didcot on the way from Swindon to London!

Didcot to Swindon is a bit of a weird one when it comes to tickets - there are period return fares which is unusual for such a short distance.
 
There are also inconsistencies with Oxford fares too. Oxford or Didcot to the west have the same fares in some cases ^ how can that be justified?

Also, does anyone know if Didcot to Swindon is in the Penalty Fares area? Each station is, but different areas so is the line in between part of the scheme?

Are you still referring to Advance fares here?  AFAICS the text is shown on the National Rail website ticket type conditions:

"You may not start, break and resume, or end your journey at any intermediate station except to change to/from connecting trains as shown on the ticket(s) or other valid travel itinerary."

http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/advance_conditions.html)

Not easy to find though - and not publicised on notice boards at ticket offices.

Paul

Thanks, Paul ... that condition is also missing from the page that the FGW site links to when you ask for the details of the advanced single fare ... and I (as an ordinary traveller) had been working under the misaprehension that when I clicked on the link to tell me about the Ts and Cs on the ticket that I would be told about all the relevant Ts and Cs on the ticket.  :-* 

Most ordinary passengers wouldn't buy a ticket from Swindon to London if they wished to travel from Didcot...  ;)

Hmm.


I suppose the question really is how does one prove that this prohibition is not clear...

FGW are being very stupid not publicing these terms and conditions on their website (and in fact implying that the terms and conditiosn taht they do publish are complete.  I would be surprised if the rule would be held enforceable if the question every ended up in court.  It is just this sort of thing that leads to people being let off "on a technicality"  

bypointing to that it is missing from a proportably complete set of T&C on the website.

Hi Bml,
It depends where you live around Oxford or Didcot, you could I think purchase an advance fare from Oxford to London and a cheap day return from Didcot to Oxford.

I dont know how it would work if you didnt actually travel to Oxford but just got of the train at Didcot on your return because you would technically have a return from Oxford on the way home. You might have to travel to Oxford at the beggining. Think this makes sence, still works out cheaper?

Basset

I'm not sure that I follow how your reach that conclusion from the initial fact quoted. Whilst I agree that moving more people from road to rail, and encouraging rail use with an environmental as well as a profit bias would help, it's not the sole or only way.

For example:


I think you live in a location that has 2 buses an hour to Didcot station. And I'm pretty sure you're eligible for free local bus travel.  So another way to cut the environmental impact of road travel is to make that road travel more efficient ... by having you take the bus which is already running (and it will save you 4.20 as well!)


You are not really comparing like for like.  The Oxford Tube fare is 16 pounds return; you have discounted that one based on the discounts you can obtain, but you have not discounted the rail journey similarly ... and if you're not going to use the bus to get to Oxford to catch the tube, you need to add driving and car costs to straighten out the comparison.  Then you have the matter of the train taking 40 minutes from Didcot and the bus taking 100.

If you have plenty of time, and cost is important, you could make the whole journey by local bus (and then it would be at no cost to yourself, as the taxpayer would pick up the bill which would be around 60% of the bus fare)

A small point in comparing discounted travel. It could be justified for BML to compare the Over 60 Oxford Tube fare with the undiscounted rail tickets if he/she doesn't hold a Senior Persons Railcard. The discounted coach fare doesn't require any bus pass purchase, whereas the rail fares require a ^26 Railcard purchase to enable getting the 1/3 off. You would need to make five Day Returns to London from Didcot before you begin to see a saving. Or one first class Anytime return!
I agree with adding driving costs and the matter of journey times however.