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Journey by Journey => Shorter journeys in Devon - Central, North and South => Topic started by: Lee on July 06, 2009, 14:54:34



Title: Paignton level crossing (merged topics)
Post by: Lee on July 06, 2009, 14:54:34
A man who drove through a Paignton railway level crossing has been fined ^195 and received three points on his licence - http://www.thisissouthdevon.co.uk/news/Man-fined-jumping-light-crossing/article-1139048-detail/article.html


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: Tim on July 06, 2009, 15:43:42
Good to see BTP are taking this problem seriously by monitoring crossing.  i can't say that the punishment looks fair though.  ^195 isn't really a lot of money and if we assume that his licence was previously clean 3 points off a licence is fairly meaningless for a 68 year old because he only has a few years of his driving career left.

To my mind you ought to loose points for careless mistakes (on the basis that anyone can make a careless mistake and only repeated mistakes indicate a dangerous driver) but get a ban for doing anything dangerous deliberately.

By analogy,  a train driver wouldn't neccessary loose his job after a SPAD because mistakes can and do happen, but if he kept SPADDING he would be out.  If he deliberately drove through a red signal, he would get more than a ^195 fine.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on July 06, 2009, 17:32:06
would you just drive over a zebra crossing outside a school? 3 points is fair! they dont lose there license unless they are STUPID and commit more offences or have been so in the past


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: moonrakerz on July 06, 2009, 19:30:29
A couple of weeks ago I had a while to wait at Exeter St Davids for my onward connection. As it was a nice sunny evening I walked well down the platform at the eastern end of the station. From here I was watching the "sentry" on the level crossing (just past the platform end). On several occasions after the barriers had fallen he was beckoning pedestrians across the tracks - now, this did appear to be perfectly safe as everyone was well clear by the time a train approached.

Was this an "approved" method of operating the crossing ? or was this man just using his initiative (common sense ?) to not cause needless delay.
 
I just wondered after reading the OP how a defence of "your employee was letting us cross when the lights were red, the barriers were down and the lights were flashing" would go down in Court !


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: devon_metro on July 06, 2009, 19:39:49
Its common for pedestrians to cross at St Davids if the crossing keeper considers it safe.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: Tim on July 07, 2009, 09:09:57
Not sure a fine is appropriate in such cases but any deliberate traffic offense ought to result in loss of licence.  You might not be a bad person but you have demonstarted that you cannot be trusted to drive responsibly. 


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: moonrakerz on July 07, 2009, 11:09:49
Its common for pedestrians to cross at St Davids if the crossing keeper considers it safe.

Agreed - but my point was: if the "crossing keeper" considers it safe , why shouldn't I or the gentleman in Paignton consider it safe to cross when the gates/lights/bells etc are trying to tell me it isn't ?
Surely the point of having a "keeper" is to keep people OFF the crossing when the lights etc are saying a train is coming.

I am not saying the keeper was acting irresponsibly, far from it, what he was doing was quite sensible; but it does seem to mix up the message somewhat. 


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: devon_metro on July 07, 2009, 14:36:27
Paignton LC has a footbridge.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: John R on July 07, 2009, 21:07:46
http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/Content/Detail.asp?ReleaseID=4516&NewsAreaID=2&SearchCategoryID=8

A more appropriate sentence in this example posted today on NR's site,  with the culprit ^1800 the poorer and an 18 month ban. Wonder why there is such a discrepancy in the sentences.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: rogerw on July 07, 2009, 22:04:11
Quite simple really.  The Paignton driver was only charge with failing to comply with a red traffic light = a fairly minor motoring offence.  The Crawley driver was charged with dangerous driving - a very serious motoring offence.  The difference is in the charges and not the sentence.  There was another recent case north of Peterborough where the driver was also charged with dangerous driving and received a prison sentence.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: moonrakerz on July 07, 2009, 22:46:08
Paignton LC has a footbridge.

For cars too ?   ;D ;D


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on July 08, 2009, 00:15:53
im guessing the fact that the line speed isnt high enough to cause a major derailment as its just next to the station and every train stops,may be why the punishment aint so bad then again a car on the tracks could still derail a train and and cause major disruption


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: signalandtelegraph on July 08, 2009, 20:00:57
BT police are actively targeting Red Cow at the moment.  They were there yesterday afternoon and again today. Have seen them several times over the last couple of weeks.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on July 12, 2009, 23:42:05
BT police are actively targeting Red Cow at the moment.  They were there yesterday afternoon and again today. Have seen them several times over the last couple of weeks.

you think they would have done some research if they just wanted to see tornado  :D


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: Tim on July 22, 2009, 13:50:57
Quite simple really.  The Paignton driver was only charge with failing to comply with a red traffic light = a fairly minor motoring offence.  The Crawley driver was charged with dangerous driving - a very serious motoring offence.  The difference is in the charges and not the sentence.  There was another recent case north of Peterborough where the driver was also charged with dangerous driving and received a prison sentence.

Is there not a railway-specific offense that sometimes gets used "obstructing the path of an engine or carriage" or something?


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: inspector_blakey on July 22, 2009, 23:14:48
I'm pretty sure that there is an offence of "obstructing the railway" or something very similar. You may even be able to call it "railway trespass" which is criminal and carried a maximum GBP1000 fine.

I've just noticed that American keyboards don't have a proper "pound" sign on them  :-[


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: The SprinterMeister on August 13, 2009, 12:08:27
Quite simple really.  The Paignton driver was only charge with failing to comply with a red traffic light = a fairly minor motoring offence.  The Crawley driver was charged with dangerous driving - a very serious motoring offence.  The difference is in the charges and not the sentence.  There was another recent case north of Peterborough where the driver was also charged with dangerous driving and received a prison sentence.

Is there not a railway-specific offense that sometimes gets used "obstructing the path of an engine or carriage" or something?

'Endangering the Saftey of Persons Conveyed on the Railway' (offences against the person act 18xx) is the one I think you are thinking of.


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 13, 2009, 20:26:51
Specifically, Section 32 of the Offences Against the Person Act 1861, I think you'll find.  ;)

Quote
32. Placing wood, &c., on a railway, with intent to endanger passengers.
Whosoever shall unlawfully and maliciously put or throw upon or across any railway any wood, stone, or other matter or thing, or shall unlawfully and maliciously take up, remove, or displace any rail, sleeper, or other matter or thing belonging to any railway, or shall unlawfully and maliciously turn, move, or divert any points or other machinery belonging to any railway, or shall unlawfully and maliciously make or show, hide or remove, any signal or light upon or near to any railway, or shall unlawfully and maliciously do or cause to be done any other matter or thing, with intent, in any of the cases aforesaid, to endanger the safety of any person travelling or being upon such railway, shall be guilty of felony, and being convicted thereof shall be liable, at the discretion of the court, to be kept in penal servitude for life ^ or to be imprisoned ^

... 'to be kept in penal servitude for life' ... those were the days, eh?  ::) ;D


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: devon_metro on August 13, 2009, 20:41:19
Where do you find this stuff, Chris!


Title: Re: Man Fined For Jumping Light At Paignton Level Crossing
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 13, 2009, 20:57:56
As I may have suggested on this forum previously ... Chris knows things ...  ;) :D ;D


Title: Paignton level crossing
Post by: plymothian on October 20, 2009, 13:34:29
Any details of the failure of the level crossing at Paignton station today?


Title: Paignton level crossing
Post by: devon_metro on October 20, 2009, 16:49:04
Torbay Road closed apparently!


Title: Paignton level crossing
Post by: signalandtelegraph on October 21, 2009, 13:39:38
Techs found large crack in one of the barrier booms whilst carrying out routine maintenance.  Was deemed safer to keep them in the down position (and keep trains running) rather than have it potentially break later and affect both road and rail traffic.  Booked in order around 1420.  :-X


Title: Paignton level crossing (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 25, 2012, 20:16:56
From the Paignton People (http://www.paigntonpeople.co.uk/Paignton-parking-offer-level-crossing-scheme/story-15030749-detail/story.html):

Quote
It will cost just ^1.50 to park all day in Paignton's Victoria multi-storey car park while a new level crossing is being installed next to the railway station.

Network Rail is upgrading the signalling and infrastructure on the Paignton branch line, and this work will involve installing a new crossing.

Although train services will not be disrupted, the level crossing gates will have to remain locked shut for safety reasons.

Torbay Road will be closed from 10pm on Saturday, January 28 to 5am on Monday, February 13 whilst Amey Rail engineers carry out the level crossing work.

Cllr Robert Excell said: "We recognise that this improvement scheme will cause inconvenience because the crossing will have to be closed to vehicles and pedestrians, although the footbridge will remain open.

"We are keen to do what we can to encourage people to continue coming to Paignton so we hope that by offering ^1.50 all day parking in Victoria car park will help."

A vehicle diversion route will be signed, and there will be a footpath route for pedestrians. Assistance will be given at the crossing to people with a disability who are unable to use either the footbridge or the footpath route.


Title: Paignton level crossing (merged topics)
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 28, 2012, 20:06:02
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-devon-16764433):

Quote
Paignton railway level crossing closure angers traders

Plans to close the level crossing in Paignton for two weeks have upset businesses in the town.

Network Rail is installing a new crossing, additional lights and upgrading signalling.

When the crossing closes at 22:00 GMT on Saturday, local traders in Torbay Road fear they will be "cut off" from the town.

Network Rail said the work was essential and it would be unsafe to keep the crossing open.

The level crossing is due to reopen on 13 February.

Matthew Dart, from Torbay Town Centres Company, said: "When the crossing goes down it will effectively cut Torbay Road off from the town."

He said the alternative foot bridge access for pedestrians was unsuitable for disabled people, anyone with restricted mobility and mothers with prams.

Network Rail's contractor, Amey Rail, has also been criticised by traders who were given less than 10 days notice about the closure.

Carol Palmer-Ley from Scoffs Fish and Chips received a letter from Amey about the closure on Thursday.

"It's health and safety, so there's nothing to be done, but to be told only two days before I think is pretty bad," she said.

Mr Dart said with more time, businesses could have attempted to persuade Network Rail to keep part of the crossing open and close Paignton train station.

"We accept the work needs to be done, but there were alternative ways of managing the footfall," he said.

"In the past the line's been kept open, by stopping trains coming in to Paignton station and bussing passengers to Torquay."

But Network Rail, which owns the land, said the machinery needed to carry out the work meant leaving any part of the the crossing was not an option.

"Safety is always the number one priority and we won't take chances on any level in relation to public safety," spokesman Jon Crampton said.

"The work has been planned to minimise disruption as much as possible but we apologise for any inconvenience caused.

"Local residents and businesses have been contacted and short diversions will be in place for motorists, pedestrians and wheelchair users."

Some traders said they would consider claiming compensation if they experienced a loss of trade.

Mark Hamilton, from 100% Health, said: "This could be the final nail in the coffin for some retailers, I believe."


Title: Paignton level crossing (merged topics)
Post by: devon_metro on January 28, 2012, 20:44:58
Closing Paignton station would close the whole branch, since there is nowhere else to reverse trains.

Sure they won't loose much money down Torbay Rd anyway since it is mainly grockel shops many of which close down over winter!



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