Great Western Coffee Shop

As some of you will know, I am currently conducting some research, and I think its time I asked the opinion of forum members in general:

If you could pick one improvement above all others that you would like to see - what would it be?

You dont have to restrict it to the timetable - anything related to the overall travelling experience will do. Also, I'd very much like to hear views from the staff side as well as the passenger side.

Welcome back to the forum, Lee.

For me it would have to be fares. Even well respected TOC's like Chiltern struggle to get much above a 50% approval rating in passenger surveys when passengers are asked about value for money. Lowering of walk-up tickets to make them more appealing - even if it means reducing the number of the ridiculously cheap advance purchase tickets. As I have heard said many times, it's not much use having a VHF timetable on the WCML if the only ticket that offers value for money has to be used on a specific train only.

There are many other things that need changing, but the fares structure is the most obviously pressing.

I'm inclined to agree on the faires issue while tickets within county (in Devon atleast) are great value, once you cross the line past tiverton some walk on fairs are pathetic! I think one way of sorting this out is to fully enforce the penalty fairs I mean how does a family of six get on at st davids without a ticket and then argue with the guard over price really irritates me what if the guard didn't come freeby? The current rules may as well be sneak onboard avoid the guard ( traveling in the front unit of a double pacer helps this) lie about the station you got on at or where your going yes I have seen that happen on a busy train centrAl please gets off at tor damn chavs!!!!

I estimate that 10 percent of passengers don't pay on the exmouth line and paignton to st Thomas is just as bad 

The situation isn't helped when there is only 1 person at the ticket office window, eg Newton Abbot yesterday. Woman in front must have been planning a trip to Siberia based on how long she was there!

Two business men who I could only assume would be in First Class ( ;)) said they'd buy on the train as they didn't have time to get their tickets!

A guaranteed seat.  Don't see why I should spend thousands of pounds p.a. and still end up standing.

Reduce number of Advance Fares and lower Off-Peak fares/ introduce more Super Off-Peak fares.

A proper transport interchange on the old Bowyers site next to Trowbridge station, and while I^m at it replace the canopies that were removed by the vandals when the station was knocked down for improvements, and a station caf^, I^m sure Lord Adonis would approve, he might even visit next time.

No apologies for this Lee but I have to mention a decent outer surburban timed train from West Wilts to Bristol, comparable with the timings in the opposite direction.

One timetable instead of 6.

I've pretty much come round to the idea that something will have to be done regarding that. The key question lies in how its done.

For me it would have to be Complimentary WiFi on all HST's and on the Portsmouth Harbour - Cardiff Central Route ;D

I fear we will probably have to live with things as they are until the 4 tracking goes ahead, although I'm sure there are also pathing constraints elsewhere that require the 15 minutes wait at BTM.  :(

At the moment catching the 0800 means a change onto the 67's up the hill, not a bad swop, although MK2's all the way would be nice.  8)

Agreed, not on 158s, but it would be nice on the HSTs.

I know its been mentioned a few times already but for me it has to be cheaper walk-up fares for long distance services.

Yes, I would vote for cheaper walk up fares, especially in the peak, where currently private passengers are almost excluded from long distance travel. And less reliance on advance fares, and removal of some of the ridiculously cheap ones.

More 4-seat-plus-table slots on HSTs for me when you take over thanks Lee!

I debated long and hard over making that my choice, so I'm glad you've mentioned it miniman.

a faster cheaper service to london from devon and cornwall

if the west of england line was doubled and upgraded to 125 ops (money no object project) and only stopped at major stations (penzance plymouth exeter yeovil sailsbury clapham waterloo or yeovil reading paddington

would you mind starting at newton abbot and changing at exeter or plymouth if there were decent connection times if it got you to london faster?

I'd like to see all maintenance taken back in house.

NR had to take Track maintenance back in-house, it restored standards and SAVED ^millions.

I've worked in-house: The Aim: to maintain to a high standard with consideration to keep costs down.

Also had to work on the same job but under contract:

The Aim: To reduce maintenance cost by cutting corners, leading to More Breakdowns, bigger profits and taking LONGER to do breakdowns.

I can't understand why companies expect to SAVE money with contracts, the aim of a contractor is to MAKE money from the client.

 YOUR MONEY paid by the customer.

adhoc contractors= lack of pride for work done (not in all cases)

Great idea for a thread, but would be better if suggestions are realistic. Reducing fares in the current environment is not.

So forget fares, what would improve your "journey experience"?

im willing to stick my neck out here in the next 20 years i think the most investment will go into the west of england line

But the fares change outlined by posts on this thread would actually INCREASE overall revenue.

By removing/reducing the ridiculously cheap Advance Fares and putting in fair, but dearer walkup fares.

It would bring more people to the railway during off peak times, as people would feel confident that they can turn up at a station, pay a fair fare and travel. With 3 tph off peak between London and Birmingham/ Manchester (and Leeds in December), there is capacity which needs filling.

Result: TOCs no longer give seats away. The majority of passengers (impulse travellers) are more satisfied with the fares. A minority of passengers (those who can plan ahead) are disappointed, but are not put off by the fair fares.

Why??? It's far from important when stacked up against the direct route via the berks and hants. So many tiny stations and such low linespeeds!

its not the stations inbetween... paddington reading are almost if not at capacity, the only thing that makes the west of england route so slow is its single and your stopping all the time distance wise how many miles is it from exeter to paddington via tivy and so on and how far is waterloo via yeovil

Here's a list, some realistic and achievable, some would be difficult and there is one very stupid suggestion... ;D

1) Not for me personally, but a Disabled Loo in First Class would be appreciated. If you are in a wheelchair or less able to move, the disabled toilet is in coach C now, Thats a fair walk if you're in G for example. Not to mention the fact that you won't get a wheelchair through the Buffet.

2) FGW to buy and refurb MK2's for deployment where routes are overcrowded or lacking in DMU's (Partly achieved)

3) I know I will be shot for this... but... First Class seating on Pompey - Cardiff and Bristol T M - Weymouth routes (If they can provide it on Turbo's they should provide on a 158 or 150, but 153/14x would be pointless due to limited capacity)

4) More Vegetarian options in the Buffet for services without a Travelling Chef

5) Catering on Bristol T M - Weymouth

6) Toilets on DMU's to be checked for water levels and cleanliness more often

7) Reopen and publicise/market Bristol T M First Class Lounge

8) Give Trout soul use of a HST ;) :P ;D :D

Here's a list, some realistic and achievable, some would be difficult and there is one very stupid suggestion... ;D

1) Not for me personally, but a Disabled Loo in First Class would be appreciated. If you are in a wheelchair or less able to move, the disabled toilet is in coach C now, Thats a fair walk if you're in G for example. Not to mention the fact that you won't get a wheelchair through the Buffet. .. your correct there should be one not having one that is easy to get to from first class is poor in otherwords if your disabled you have to go standard or go without

2) FGW to buy and refurb MK2's for deployment where routes are overcrowded or lacking in DMU's (Partly achieved) and i think its fair to say it works! unfortunatly we will hear station linger time ... but i dont think this is a huge issue the main problem is that you need two locos per set or a loco and a dvt unless your going to a station where you can do a run around which isnt practical on shorter journeys

3) I know I will be shot for this... but... First Class seating on Pompey - Cardiff and Bristol T M - Weymouth routes (If they can provide it on Turbo's they should provide on a 158 or 150, but 153/14x would be pointless due to limited capacity).... all this would ultimatly do is reduce capacity and wouldnt return any real revinue increase only improve journeys for those with money

4) More Vegetarian options in the Buffet for services without a Travelling Chef .....wouldnt be cost effective to serve the minority, perhapse an alternating menu?

5) Catering on Bristol T M -..... Weymouth agree and on taunton cardiff! buffet on loco and trolly on dmu

6) Toilets on DMU's to be checked for water levels and cleanliness more often ...cleanliness as a whole on the fleet

7) Reopen and publicise/market Bristol T M First Class Lounge if its an empty room and it gets people out the car go for it

8) Give Trout soul use of a HST ;) :P ;D :D ..... umm there you go http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/HORNBY-INTERCITY-125-DCC-LIGHTS-2-COACHES-DUMMY-UNIT_W0QQitemZ180362867613QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_Trains_Railway_Models?hash=item29fe76f39d&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=72%3A1684|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A1|293%3A1|294%3A50  :) :) :) :) :) :)
ok here goes

Are you trying to tell me that the 100mph railway between Basingstoke and Waterloo is less crowded and more suited than Readng to Paddington?

I (and 678 others (http://www.transwilts.org.uk/sf.html)) would like a more appropriate TransWilts service.  Of the 679 of us making this request, over 90% live in Wiltshire or nearby counties.  Over 250 of us are regular Wiltshire Commuters, and a further 330 travel quite often within the county.

Current services leave Swindon for Westbury and beyond at 06:15 and 18:45, and return at 07:02 and 19:32.   A more appropriate service that all 679 (accounting for some 150,000 annual journeys in Wiltshire) have called for would provide four extra round trips, carefully timed to cover potential peak flows (leisure, business, commuter, school / colledge) as described here (http://www.transwilts.org.uk/tp.html).

I can't certainly speak for all 678 of the other people who support this improvement as to whether they would pick it above all others, but speaking personally, the complete lack of any usable train service at my local station has to be top of my list of overdue improvements, with fares, availability of Wifi on the trains, etc, being a long way down my list; there is no point in offering a good fare if there's no train to use it on!

The need for a decent service on this line has been brough home by the large number of supporters (above), and by evidence gathered.  A fortnight ago today, I had an afternoon meeting with FGW / DfT/ WC in Swindon, and presented myself at the station at 16:20 for a return to Westbury.  Some chap (or chapess?) had decided to fall asleep beside the railway line near Reading, so trains were delayed and the 16:30 was delayed ... as we approached Bath, the Westbury service was seen leaving from the other platform and we dragged into Westbury at a couple of minutes to six - 100 minutes for a journey which (had there been a direct train 10 minutes after I had arrived in Swindon) would have taken around 50 minutes.

I'm going to get shot for this but

") I know I will be shot for this... but... First Class seating on Pompey - Cardiff and Bristol T M - Weymouth routes (If they can provide it on Turbo's they should provide on a 158 or 150, but 153/14x would be pointless due to limited capacity).... all this would ultimatly do is reduce capacity and wouldnt return any real revinue increase only improve journeys for those with money"

What is wrong with that?  Why shouldnt people who can and will pay more get a better service

Because without it, I wont use the train - it becomes stressful and not relaxing.

Frankly, I dont care if people have to stand or are cramped if I can travel in comfort

Just a little bit more legroom on the 158/159s through Warminster !  (I'm only 6' !!)

Hehe there are three fold down seats with plenty of leg room in the centre of the unit bit noisy tho

Compared with XC Voyagers it has to be all First Class already.

Not the most comfortable either...! ;)

It won't get done until the trains are longer.

This is a very difficult question to answer.

Obviously one of the major concerns to most people is more and possibly longer trains on many routes within the West however FGW is so short of units that it's only by robbing Peter to pay Paul that someone gets an imporoved service whilst someone loses out, so it's bit like rearranging the deckchairs on the Titanic. Spare DMUS don't appear overnight.

Refurbs unfortunately whilst many may not like whats happened to particualr units we're more or less stuck with it, until the next refurb.

So I think fare simplification is possibly be the only area that can be tackle as it doesn't involve extra units, staff or infrastructure.

Personnaly I would like to see the London Zonal extended to at least all metropolitan areas so that all local public transport rail, bus, trams is covered by one ticket.  Ideally the whole country should be divided up into fare zones as Germany and Holland.

The fare zones  should include local rail fare as well. Long distance railfares would still be National, but with cheaper walk on and higher advanced fares.

This could mean that there may be an IC fare and a regional fare between two points. With a choice of a fast IC or stopping regional trains. As pr Germany where it was 35 Euros from Berlin to Dresdden on an IC/EC and 58 euro for 5! on the slower RE with a change.

If there were more ICs running further between stops with a following Regional stopping train then many of the problems of local pasengers doing short journies on an IC would be solved. Especialy as the fare would be higher.

However, the problem with running both IC and Regional trains following one another in say Cornwall is you'd probably need more units and more infrastructure (signal sections). So not a short term solution.

So possibly picking up something else from the thread better carriage cleaning inside and out.

Sorry Lee can't think of any easy low cost quick solutions.

I wonder why some people dislike first class ticket holders...?  ::)

Envy

Why are people saying the Waterloo route should be given priority? ???

Rubbish. Max speed of 100 mph. It won't be overhead wires if it gets electrified.

Absolutely choc-o-block. Bottlenecks at Woking, Clapham, Waterloo.....

It requires reversals, unless the route via Oakhampton is restored  - something I SUPPORT. But as a SECONDARY ROUTE only.

It also misses out the important station of Reading, the most important interchange. In fact the whole route is rather isolated from the rest of the network.

waterloo, while i admit would cost alot in track realignmet could take more trains, woking i cant comment on, clapham now that would be a headache
reversals... whats the most this will add 5 mins? paignton trains do it all the time from exmouth

okehampton now i would love to see this reopen all the way to plymouth but that isnt going to provide a high speed service by going the long way round, best way is to avoid st davids and use central as the main station build a link from central onto the cornish mainline facing plymouth

i think the only stupid thing about what i am saying is the cost and for this reason it wont happen

Firstly, I expect few passengers travel from Exmouth to Paignton.

Reversing a larger train takes longer than a DMU.

And you still haven't solved the problem of 100 mph to Waterloo.

And Clapham is a bottleneck to stay. There is no way of any major improvements, as they can't disrupt the trains every 13 seconds during the rush hour!

And the connexions on the Woeml are bad compared to the GWML.

Double Tracking Weston-Super-Mare would be a much more viable option as it can cause serious delays to Fast Services Between BRI - TAU

Much more point work and the relevant signalling on the network west of Exeter so that rolling stock breakdowns and infrastructure issues can be bypassed quicker and in addition possessions reduced.

it wont happen anyway i think both routes should be improved but if i had to pick one money no object then its west of england ... would ease overcrowding on the taunton route

anyway thats what i want i know it has flaws but it also has bonuses im not saying your right or wrong because i know some of what i have said is just silly

The Woeml defo needs money spent. So it is a fully double tracked, 100 mph railway to act as a secondary route, and for local passengers.

I would have the speed limit through Reading platform 4 put back to 80 from present 50, avoiding the silly approach control that slows a train to walking pace or dead stand to enter.

This would release quite a lot of down capacity and improve time-keeping.

OTC

It won't get done then either - they will just pack in more seats or leave more room for standing !
The best seats on the FGW 158s are the "priority" ones - tons of leg room there.

I agree 100% with Oil Engineer's view.

However the most Wanted improvement has to be a Second Route from Plymouth to Exeter, why should Plymouth and Cornish passengers have to be Bused most Winter weekends, doesn't happen (very) often between Bristol or Exeter and London

My list of most wanted improvements (I realise these are all pie in the sky for the most part, but it doesn't stop me longing for them)

1. At stations other than halts have properly staffed ticket offices and entrances to platforms. Heritage railways seem to manage it - take a lesson from them.

2. Reintroduce platform tickets, and charge at least 20p. It'll generate revenue and ensure everyone on the platform has business being there.

2. Rename "revenue protection officers" as "customer travel assistants".

3. Remind the CTAs who pays their wages. They are there primarily to assist the travelling public. The very name "revenue protection officers" shows that Management's priorities lie with the company's shareholders rather than the people who they are providing the service to.

4. Reintroduce third class coaches. Fill them with bus seats and sell really cheap walk-on fares. Don't bother with connecting doors to the rest of the train, just have a connection to.... (see point 5, below)

5. Reintroduce luggage vans so more people can transport bicycles and large suitcases etc. Isolate this from the rest of the train (except the third class coach). Charge a small stowage fee (take a lesson from the cheap flight providers).

6. Use modern technology to ensure the Quiet Carriage(s) have no wi-fi or phone signal access.

I am of the opinion that the additional income generated by platform charges, luggage stowage and cheap walk-on seat sales will more than pay for the changes.

If they put in wifi then I agree with the phone signal - there is nothing wrong with wifi in a quiet carriage - quite often people sit in there to , chock horror, work

they are already trialing third class on the tarka line and as suggested there is no connecting corridor to the standard class 153 up front

Reversal's can be quick, I've been on a Plymouth-London HST that was on it's way within 120 Seconds of stopping at Exeter St. D and we left on the Southern route to Yeovil. Take it New Driver took over at Exteter.

Yes, in quiet zones there should be no power sockets, Wifi or Mobile signals.

Let people rest or work in peace. Using a laptop should NOT be permitted in the quiet zone.

I disagree. Most people using a laptop make very little noise. The main purpose of quiet zones is to provide a haven from the person who insists on making his phone conversation audible to the rest of the coach. 

I use the plugs on the train to keep my blackberry charged. Not for phone calls, but for emails. Presumably that's allowed in a quiet coach?

Can't undestand why people insist on making their phone calls audible to everyone. If I get one whilst travelling, I'd rather keep it short or take it in the vestibule. Can't undersatand showbiz types.

PS I agree with the much earlier comment abot more tables. Yes please....!

What about people who - er - use a laptop to work - like I would guess 95% of those commuting on the train who would wish to work

Because the tapping of keys is disturbing and there are other computer noises.

And you don't need a laptop to work on a train!

Do you work in an office based environment or similar by any chance, where your work is more than "9 to 5"?  If you do, you will soon realise that having a laptop is by far and away the easiest and most productive way to keep on working whilst commuting. 

Astonishing argument, bring back the quil pen, whoops there'll be complaints of scratching of the nib on the paper next.

I understand that lot's people use laptops.

But they should not use the Quiet Zones, as they are not quiet!

ATEs are being renamed "Customer Services" if that helps ;)

We agree on a lot - but on this I cant

I study - in stead of carrying around a load of university text books - I use PDF's.  I cant work in F or G because of the godamn noise

you can type quietly- I DO!  its more the typing technique than the laptop IMHO. 

Also - the other laptop noises - just disable the sound - mine never makes a noise!  There is no reason to have sound active

So - you telling me I need to sit in noisy carriage to work?

1. An end to railway cost inflation:-

"Passengers are down, so we need more subsidy"
"Passengers are up, so we need more subsidy"

2. Someone to acknowledge that the next 40 years aren't going to be an extrapolation of the past 40.

Goodness, yes ... and I'll add to that
"Interest rates are high so we can't afford to invest in improvements"
"Interest rates are low so we're not earning enough interest to buy improvements"

Isn't it funny (funny, amazing and NOT funny amusing) how the same organisations (above quotes are TOCs and Local Transport Authorities) thing that no-one will notice if they give directly opposing reasons for the same actions in two successive years!

Ok, if you can type quietly then it's fine. I can see the benefits of a quiet environment for you.

I was merely making the point of those "slam key" computer users. Who, whilst damaging their computer keyboard, also irritate other people in the coach! Add a mobile phone under their chin and a conversation, then it gets unreasonable for a quiet zone. >:(

Unfortuantley, the latter type seem to be the most common, probably encouraged by this new Virgin Trains advert. ::)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jkY498RpYbA

To be fair, one doesn't really need a keyboard, let alone a full-on laptop computer, to read PDFs. Most if not all of the touchscreen phones and palmtops have (a) an airline or silent/offline mode, and (b) freely available applications for reading Adobe files

http://www.pdfzone.com/c/a/Mobile/How-to-Manage-PDFs-on-Your-Mobile-Devices/

refers.

I'll send u the PDF of wave mechanics - let's see how u get on. Thenbthere iscthe writing up of the assignment

Latex on an iPhone?

I'm all for mobile devices - using one now on platform 1 at ludlow but please!

Yes, reading pdfs on an iPhone is ridiculous!

But for dealing with annoying emails on the way home from work it is preferable - no slam keys!

I would like to see a simplified fares structure, an overall reduction in fares is probably unrealistic, but a simpler and more logical system would be a great benifit.
I see no need for more than three fares (in each class of travel) for any journey.
Peak fares to be charged in the rush hours, similar to the present full fare.
Off peak fares to be about about 50% of the peak fare, charged for most of the day outside the rush hour.
Bargain fares to be about 25% of the full fare, and only available on very lightly used services, probably early morning or late night and/or for journys made against the main flow.

The fare payable should be determined by the time of travel, I see no merit whatsoever in different fares for returning the same day, or for staying overnight.
I see no merit in different fares, on the same train according to when booked. Full fare, off peak fare, or bargain fare should be payable according to the time of travel, not the time of booking.
The three different fares should be colour coded and included in the timetables, and the tickets should be the same colour.
E.G. "peak time, full fare trains are shown in RED and only RED tickets are valid on these services"
"off peak services are shown in YELLOW and YELLOW tickets may be used on these trains"
"super bargain services are shown in GREEN and the GREEN tickets may be used on these services"

Expensive tickets would of course be valid on cheaper services.
TOCs would be allowed to alter which colour tickets are allowed on which trains, but only at timetable changes, not every few days.

The present system is far too complex, even the staff often dont know what is valid, and what is best value for a given trip.

How much simpler it would be be for those on a budget, to think "I can only afford the green fare, therefore I must consult the colour coded timetable, and see which trains printed in GREEN will meet my needs"

Some good ideas in there!

We definitely need an end to the system we have where you have to book in Advance.

A clearer, farer system would increase off peak demand, generating more revenue for TOCs.

Introduction of a Half Fare card at a price ... ^150 gets you 50% off all tickets for a year, works well overseas, might have to restrict initially to off peak travel, but with the intention within 5 years of phasing out this retriction.

For me as lots of people ahve said it is the fares!  Also a direct service from teh west to Oxford would be nice but if they still insist on making us change at Didcot then a toilet on platform 1 would be a vast improvment!

John M

Welcome John, and enjoy the forum.

One small thing would be the ability for frequent but irregular passengers to buy carnet tickets.  Woudl save time in the morning

Apparently they do exist!

Chiltern do, the "Chiltern Carnet" of 10 tickets, aimed at the business traveller.

Perhaps other TOCs do, but they clearly don't advertise them as well as Chiltern.

answer to number 1, heritage railways use volunteers who work for free,
2 just rubbish! they are there to protect revenue due to the railway and investigate travel fraud and issue penalty fares, not assist with bags or nicey nicey, they do their bit for customer service by protecting the people who actually pay their fares, this can be, and from what I see, is done without being rude, there may be one or two who need an attitude transplant but you can say that with any grade whether guard, driver, customer host.....
3. They do a lot to pay their own wages because if they weren't there  then lots of revenue would be lost!

Lets not get too excited about names.  I'd prefer the straightforward "ticket inspector" to "Revenue Protection Officer" but "Customer Travel Assistant" is even worse because it is misleading to the point of being dishonest.  If the staff are there mainly to check tickets (and I would say that that is an important job that someone needs to do), then a title connected with that role is appropriate.

Both RPI and CTA are ridiculous titles.

They are called "Ticket Inspectors", who enhance ticket checking done by the Guard.

By all means have extra staff on platforms to assist passengers. But as these staff would deal mainly in despatch, I still can't see the title "Passenger Travel Assistants" working.

They also exist on FGW for a number of journeys into Oxford from stations in the county but their existence seems to be on a need-to-know basis - bit like the Cotswold Railcard.

You have struck something of a nerve there, Vacman, if my mailbox is anything to go by.  As I understand Phil's point (Phil - perhaps you would like to follow up?), he's suggesting that customer facing staff on the railway should have job titles which give positive indicators to the customers, and which naturally remind those staff of the importance of the customer who has no intentions of breaking any rules getting a good experience and being protected.

There majority of FGW stafff are, indeed, polite and helpful.  There's a small minority (but, sorry, rather more than one or two in my experience) who'll do their best to pass the buck on to a colleague (or will let the buck drop at the end of the passenger's journey, problem never solved, "write in about it").  And there's a small minority who'll assume that customers are guilty of trying to break the rules, and let the customers know that too, until they prove their innocence.  Job descriptions that re-inforce these attitudes, and bullying techniques such as dismissing the customer's view as "just rubbish" are, I'm afraid, remembered far more that the good experiences.

We're getting well off the "most wanted improvements" here, though.   Let's get back on topic!

Perhaps a few newly built/reintroduced railway lines for our towns and CITY that do not have one.

1.  A line that goes from Yate to Thornbury maybe.  Therefore Thornbury would be connected to the railway network, and Yate would also benefit from a more frequent service.

2.  A line from Bristol - Radstock - Shepton Mallet - Wells - Glastonbury - Castle Cary maybe.  Connected popular somerset towns, and a city to the rail network, and possibly providing a faster alternative for the Bristol - Weymouth services.

3.  As previously discussed on this forum, a railway line/passenger service from Bristol - Portishead, and possibly Clevedon.  More option for us Bristol Commuters.

4.  Perhaps a line from Ashchurch - Tewkesbury.  I know there is a connecting bus service there, but I do feel Tewkesbury deserves a rail service.

5.  A line from Barnstaple - Bude - Padstow - Newquay.  I feel the north west coast of Devon could do with some sort of rail line.  Some of these places are some way of a rail station.

I know these are all very very optimistic, and probably will never happen, but if the UK wants to expand the Bristish Rail Network, and take people from there cars onto trains, then I feel more local stations, and a wider rail network will be needed.

Good to hear Chiltern do them, but aren't they available on some of the West Country branches?

The trouble with Carnets is that we are still wedded to the non transferrable ticket, one person one ticket. Heaven forbid that one person buys 10 carnet tickets and sells them to their mates.

It's why we don't have many group travel tickets such as the Lander tickets unlimted travel on public transport (not ICE/IC/EC) for one day (9:30 to 03:00 weekdays unlimited weekends) for up to 5 people.

Going back to the thread. I think the most realistic aim for a quick fix is the fare structure. Like the concept of Red Yellow Green trains with matching fares. It will make a very pretty timetable!

Easy way to prevent carnets being misused would be to issue photocards for carnet passengers.

Basically, like a railcard, so the tickets have "Crnt" on them (same place as "Y-P" for a Student Railcard) plus a photocard number, so only the person who buys them can use them.

Barnstaple line carnet tickets are usable by any members of the same household ... so it's be no means certain that a new carnet scheme would be tickets for an individual, which is implied by a photocard.    In fact, I wonder why a lot more tickets aren't transferrable.

Because BR/TOCs needed/need as much revenue as possible!

Chiltern's Carnet tickets are transferable: http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/latest-news/chiltern-carnet-keeps-business/ (http://www.chilternrailways.co.uk/news/latest-news/chiltern-carnet-keeps-business/)

There are carnet tickets for the Gunnislake and Looe branches I believe.

My arguement is against having a job title of "Customer ........." for revenue staff, everyone on the railway has a job to do and like it or lump it revenue protection are there to protect revenue due to the company, there's nothing wrong with that, every business has the right to employ staff to protect it's revenue/products, just like Tesco's employ security guards to stop people nicking stuff!

Revenue staff can still do their job and be polite and courteous but with a name like "Customer travel assistant" or whatever they would become a magnet for everything else, and it's also about being clear to the travelling public, you wouldn't wear a police uniform if you drove an ambulance would you?

A colleague who's in Revenue protection was telling me the other day that their name badges will have a job title of "Customer Service" from 15th June, so when that person is issuing a Penalty fare and the passenger reads that..........

We can call bailiffs "Customer furniture removers" aswell whilst we're at it!

Which are transferrable

As far as I know, the Oxford area carnets are simply a bunch of 10 tickets for the price of nine. No question of linkage to use by a specific person - you just write on the date of travel. Certainly no hint of any restriction on use in material promoting the Bicester Line carnet, recently given a bit of a push in connection with the extra Bicester branch trains - they are available in both anytime and off-peak format.

It's good to see that many Carnets are being issued and are transferrable, but as BTline says the old attitude  BR/TOC attitude still lingers; that by making them transferrable this  somehow dimishes revenue.

It would be interesting to work out how many carnets are issued and how many are actually used. I would bet a number get lost, mislaid or in my case put in a safe place, never to be found. Who knows it might be in the TOCs favour.

Really not sure why there should need to be any question whatever about transferability - when the money has been paid up front, then why on earth would it matter who's using a ticket from a carnet purchase?

Thanks, willc - I agree entirely!  When those 10 journeys have been paid for, up front, what does it matter when they are used - whether it's days or weeks later - and by whom?  ::)

it may be that the toc's find it more difficult to measure passenger usage of certain services when this type of ticket is used, but then again same applys to season tickets rangers and rovers

 I would like to see an integrated, publicly owned transport network.
 Adequately funded by a government with a long term transport policy.
 
 Simple really. Not asking too much ?

Here here.

On the issue of transferability - As I understand it ordinary tickets are not fully transferable, but they needn't be bought by the passenger. So it is legal for me to buy a ticket for my mother-in-law or for a secretary to buy a ticket for his/her boss.  IMO the non-transferability is to prevent touts abusing the system in two ways 1, selling tickets that have already been used but not gripped (or rovers etc) and (perhaps) 2, buying up AP tickets of resale at a profit.  Other transfers are unlikely to impact on the customer or company and are not something the TOCs worry about.

I know that plenty will disagree but I would prefer a system where all tickets have a long validity (say for a year) but only become validated by the customer writting the date in (or better still using a platform date stamping machine).  This would prevent ungripped tickets being reused and allow the complicating distinction between day returns and returns to be removed.  And you could make your own carnet by buying any 10 tickets for the same jounrey at once.  TOCs woudl benefit from tickets being lost mislade and from getting the cash upfront.  Customers would save time at the station and get a couple of extra minutes in bed in the morning.

Of course that's correct, but the reason the 'non - transferability' is not elaborated on in publications aimed at the public is simply because it isn't in the railways interests to suggest means of fraudulent travel.

On a related subject, it's also why they don't explain in 'words of one syllable' why they don't sell tickets from C-D at the TVMs at station A. The main reason is to stop what is known as 'dumb-belling', ie buying A-B-Big Gap-C-D tickets. But explaining this in the public domain would advertise the possibility.

Paul

Further to previous posts, I would also like WiFi to be available on FGW trains.  It need not necessarily be free, but I would hope it would be less than the ^4.50p/hr that The Cloud currently charge, which I simply won't pay.

Additionally, if automated ticket barriers are in operation at most stations, surely this must help with preventing revenue loss?  As a frequent traveller, I am sick-and-tired of witnessing passengers lying to on-train staff about which station they got on at, and then getting away with reduced fares.  It is us that then have to bear the cost of this fraud.

The 'rail' system was far larger when it wasn't, it's only the size it is because it became publicly owned. HS1 would become HS2, 3 etc if government and public funding were kept well away from it.

I agree that an integrated system is needed though.

the cloud is free to o2 customers, and to be honest mate by the time wifi was installed on trains laptops will have 3g built in or pay as you go usb dongles will be available

PAYG USB dongles are available now for mobile internet access.
I have a USB dongle on a monthly tarrif, and a PAYG one on a different network.

Even NX manage to give all passengers free Wifi.

FGW should do the same. (even if chargeable in Standard)

Thanks for posting, southsouthwest - and a warm welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  :)

I'm actually using one of these when I'm away these days ... it was fine on the Larne to Cairnryan boat as we sat in Larne harbour, but I haven't got round to trying it on an FGW train yet - how good is the coverage?

well i have the iphone and even when im not in a 3g area the internet is quite good, as im with bt for my home broadband and o2 for mobile there are so many places that i get free wifi, stations im covered every mcdonalds alot of pubs, i have used my phone once as a modem on a laptop and to be fair the speed was ok, alright your not going to be able to watch videos unless you are very patiant but sending emails and msn and browsing it was fine (thats without 3g, in a 3g area you should have a decent speed) and if your on o2 or on a decent plan on another network its free, why pay for a dongle or for wifi on a train when you can plug your mobile phone into the laptop and use it as a modem.... my nokia 3210 used to do that 5 years ago and trust me things are faster now!

Because unles you are iphone you pay per MGB for the download - its realy only the iphone that makes phone browsing affordable!  Other than that you have to subscribe to a dongle - costs me ^35 a month.  The iphone cannot work as a modem yet.

If you arent a heavy mobile user - a dongle isnt worth it but wifi is - especially for first class passengers if they get it free!

I agree. I don't use mobile phone contracts (as my usage is so low), so don't get any "minutes".

I do, however, have some Wifi minutes from BT, and would rather pay to use Wifi than a mobile network.

FGW are getting behind! Virgin, W&S, GC, NXEC all have/ are getting Wifi. I really expected FGW to install Wifi in the HST refurb.

how did i get my iphone to work as a modem then?

Did you jailbreak it?  or do a non 02/apple approved hack?  If you didnt please share because you're the first

You can use it as a modem if you jail break it - but as I have an official iphone I dont want it bricked

+


no i like my warrenty hold on i will find the cable and do it on this pc... give me a min this is vista not xp like the laptop and networking on vista can be amusing

ahhh no it does work but it dials a number which isnt ideal, there is an app on my phone which uses 3g but ive checked the app store its nolonger available (additions iphone modem2) cant find an alternative  i would say its to promote the use of 02's dongles but they dont really advertise them

The new version of the iPhone (coming out in a few months) will let you share your iPhone's 3G internet on your laptop (either wired, or bluetooth)

I assume existing iPhones users will be able to purchase a software upgrade.

well as i understand the new os on the new iphone will be released for the current iphone minus some of the new features (camcorder and voice activation) so maybee this will be on that

I'll just do a full phone upgrade and get the job lot!

Pisses me off since I only took a Three dongle contract 4 months ago!

 Re-instate the Cross Country on train cleaners who are to lose their jobs.

here here. 

Disagree. (AFAIK) they are contractors. Instead, take the work in house and save money whilst at it. Contractors often do a shoddy job I find!

I don't think they are being replaced by inhouse workers just got rid of.  On long XC journeys some kind of untrain cleaning needs to be retained.

I'm aware of that, I was suggesting that XC hire staff under their name.

The RSMs will instead be on litter picking duty, bet they won't like that one.

I agree. As long as the 'save money' ethos doesn't mean 'clean less often' of course. Cross Country have failed to impress me in most respects after taking over from Virgin. The Bournemouth services are cleaned by contract cleaners (from ISS) who board the train at Reading and travel through to Bournemouth before doing the same on the return journey. In my experience a thorough clean of the train takes them no more than 30 minutes, so the rest of the time was spent sitting in a seat, looking out of the window and texting. Though on one occasion it was a very attractive blonde, so I wasn't too concerned that she sat next to me for so long...  ;)

Best idea of the lot.

BR = better railway.

OTC

Many thanks for the wide range of ideas  :)

On a relevant note, Ministers are considering whether a requirement to provide wireless internet access should be built into the next generation of rail franchises, or whether to integrate the requirement to provide mobile broadband services into the next Network Rail control period funding - http://www.transportbriefing.co.uk/news/story?id=6000

 'Contractors often do a shoddy job' is an unfair generalisation, although I agree that the XC cleaner's should be 'in-house'

 I can only speak for the cleaner's who travel Plymouth-Exeter but I have always considered them to be part of the on-board team.
 Not only cleaning but assisting with customer luggage, queries etc.
 With summer Saturdays approaching you have to question the timing of XC's decision.

 Perhaps XC should study their franchise agreement.

One of those in every carriage would be a great improvement

The cleaner on the 1745ish train from Exeter to Plymouth today was awful. Just sat in the front vestibule reading their book, not acceptable as when I sat down on the journey to Cornwall the train was filthy. They are employed to do a job.

I need a job I will do it! Yes it's got to that point and crazy thing is I mite enjoy it

You want to spend all day sitting on voyagers, that is desperation.

i thought you just had to stand at the shop so passengers cant buy anything?

What shop? ;) :P

good point lol what do they do now do a run and push play some trolly racing