Great Western Coffee Shop

From Monday the new timetable came into effect on the Falmouth to Truro branch. The headline after spending a few million pounds on signalling and a passing loop, was a more frequent service.
But and its a big BUT, is anybody else finding the increased waiting time to make a connection at Truro is putting them off using the train for travelling within Cornwall ?
I myself was more than happy to park at Perranwell and just over an hour and ten minutes later on average be in Liskeard, now I am facing much longer unacceptable waiting times in Truro.
FGW have advised :-
"We have made a number of changes that will enable us to operate a more punctual service, making the connections that we do have, robust and reliable.
I am sorry that your journey times are longer, but making these changes has meant an overall improvement to the service that we offer and this must be our priority. "

Please if you are affected by the new time table contact FGW and get a case reference number which can be used to help raise the profile of this issue with www.passengerfocus.org.uk and maybe we can influence the next time table a little way to serve passengers rather than performance.
Thank you
Paul R

I'm glad that the times are longer, I no longer have to sweat about making the previous very tight connections at Truro! at the end of the day the vast majority of travel on the branch is between the intermediete stations and Truro and the current timetable will grow this market even more!

I raised the issue yesterday, and proposed that the 20/50 services are swapped over to give better connections for Perranwell passengers on the branch line at Truro.

Just had a look on a summer saturday and I think its safe to say that connections aren't great anywhere in Devon and Cornwall.

If I want to go to Penzance, 0811 Paignton - Newton Abbot arriving at 0827.

0827 Newton Abbot - Penzance. Pat on the back for the timetable planners!

... and, with our apologies for the oversight in not doing so before, Paul R - welcome to the Coffee Shop forum!  ;) :D

Not my geo area but an issue close to heart

The needs of the company come before the needs of the passenger

I witness many not published connections that are possible if the railways run to time

I then see extra padding put into those that ARE published

who is the rail way serving these days

The 0702 Plymouth - Penzance now just misses the Falmouth train so an arrival before 0900 is more tricky.

Also a missed comnnection on the St Ives branch. The 0529 Bristol - Penzance calls St Erth at 1010. The St Erth - St Ives traion leaves at 1011. This train used to be timed at 1012 and the connection was published.

I have contacted FGW about this with no sensible reply. [World class, 24/7, level playing field with synergy speak!!]

Perranwell used to have a brilliant train at about 0913 that connected both east and west at Truro which also had a good connection for St.Ives. This was also the first off peak train and was well used. Now the train is at 0840 [peak] and 0940 [off peak]. The 0940 connections gets you into Plymouth or Penzance too late. Sadly now with a much improved service it is better to drive into Truro or if wanting to go west get the bus to Redruth and then the train.

Perranwell could do with the train that goes through non stop at about 0910 added as a request stop train.

Who is best to contact about this as their web site replies are useless?

The west country connections have certainly gone backwards and increased journey times considerably.

You try and use the train but despair at the way the rail industry continually shoots itself in the foot even when it should have good news. It is like the people who make these decisions do not understand the local areas or make regular trips as 'passengers' themselves.

In response to something I said earlier in this thread, i've made another one regarding some of the shoddy connections in Devon (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=4705.0)

Sorry, I have just read the back comments and I will contact Passenger Focus as well as FGW. Is there any use in contacting Station Manger at Truro [If it is possible] about connections etc?

The only realistic option would be the switch of stop (the NN50 ex Falmouth stopping instead of the NN20) at Perranwell and this obviously now couldn't be done until the next timetable switch on 13th December 2009. There's a remote possibility of change on 7th September 2009 when the mainline timetable is reviewed beyond the summer peak. Doing it in September would mean an early reprint and the real possibilty of anger as the current 39 timetable is valid until 12th December 2009, some customers might complain if published services on that timetable are altered.

The shareholders

I have just realised another Falmouth branch missed opportunity. Wishing to go early to BTM from Perranwell on Saturday there is now a wonderful extra early Maritime line train at 0657 which gets into Truro at 0705. This arrives just in time to give a non guaranteed connection into the XC 0709. [presumably a 5 minute connection required].

This would have given a brilliant early arrival in BTM of 1026 and opened up opportunities for a full working day off the Falmouth branch. Seems amazing this was not even a Falmouth branch improvement high light.

What planet do the time table planners[?] come from and more to the point who on earth, if anyone, manages them?

It may involve two TOcs but as a passenger who cares. No wonder the rail industry looks so incompetent with the current timetabled non connections many of which are so simple to remedy.

Surely there must be some software that is run to show up these ludicrous missed opportunities  many of which have already been pointed out previously. Any one know?

In defence of the TOCs the Penryn project has very much been driven by Cornwall (County) Council and it's their aim for a clock service that has caused these lost connection opportunities. You only have to look at the investment partners to see that. For the rest of the year we'll have to take the Falmouth branch as operating in isolation, after all the summer timetable change is supposed to be a minor revision with the major recast in December. Hopefully FGW and XC can note the timings on the branch and rejig many services west of Truro and some east of Truro to accommodate. We mustn't ignore the fact that a small change on the mainline can have significant effects throughout the region and indeed Nationally, timetabling is a black art.   

To be fair, writing a timetable is not easy, and it is amazing it fits together as well as it does!

(Cotswold Line excluded, obviously)

The whole point of this thread is that it doesn't fit in. I timetabled the Falmouth timetable yonks ago, apart from the times of the hour they depart, my timetable was identical timing wise. Not hard to timetable Falmouth.

Problem is that the Fal branch is now (nearly) clockface but the mainline isn't so someone is always going tolose out, don't forget that falmouth trains have to run for around quarter of a mile down and wrong line along the down main so to timetable a half hourly service to not conflict with main line trains does take some planning! Also, those who REALLY have studied the timetables will see some major benefits, i.e. before 18/05 the down "Duchy" arrived at Truro at 1623, branch left 1628, on paper a good connection, in REALITY the "Duchy" was always late and just missed the Falmouth (which couldn't be held due to tight turnaround and tight connection back at Truro) giving people an hour wait at Truro, now the "Duchy" arrives 1623 and connection is 1650, so by the time the train arrives 5 late as it seems to every bloomin day, people get their bags off train, orientate themselves with platforms (without having to rush!) then they only have about 15 mins to wait but never a missed connection. It's the same with the "riviera" which used to arrive 1423 Fal connection 1432, with that one it was nearly 2hrs until next train, in the "up" direction the 1011 from Fal had about a 6 min connection with the 1000 Pnz-Pad, passengers always panicing about missing it and having to lump cases and kids over the bridge in a mad rush at Truro, now the 0950 from Fal has a 22 min connection which gives people time to get everything over the bridge without rushing, or over the level crossing for those less mobile, same with many more "up" connections, yes it makes the overall journey time longer on paper but in reality it makes the journey less stressful and easier going and for a lot of people will make the journey quicker for the times that the connections have been missed in the past!

The late running of the down Riv and Duchy is ridiculous. They are meant to arrive at Exeter at 1209/1410 respectivly. It can easily be done so that they depart at 1208/1408 if there was no faffing around en route. This easily gives them more slack in Cornwall where it seems HSTs are incapable of keeping to booked time!

On that note, who does the up Riviera now get 2 minutes less to complete Penzance to Plymouth? It often arrived at Plymouth a few minutes late. Then again, 5 hours Penzance to Paddington is impressive in this day and age.

It no longer calls at Hayle, quite a time saving as Hayle station is right on the bottom of a steep long incline on the up.

Ahhh that's good. Bit of a shack for the premier service through Cornwall.

There are times when i've seen those 2 services arrive at Exeter up to 9 minutes early!

Yeh, think it was in at 1202 on Thursday.

Its one of those funny trains, it's either early or late, never on time! As for Cornwalls premiere service, if I had my way it would only call at Penzance, Truro, Bodmin PW, Plymouth and Padd!

a true intercity!

Let the local services fill the gaps

Problem is there are no local services!

Just run a stopper Plymouth to Penzance a few minutes after the HST has left Plymouth.

I'll just lend FGW my train tree.

Grow me a money tree whilst your at it  :D :D

Now, now. Let's not be too harsh on btline. The fact that his view of life is somewhat naive does not detract from his contributions to this Forum.  ;)

Why do FGW need a train tree? They use a 150 for the Cornish Main line do they not? I was merely suggesting a good time for the stopper to run.

As for being "naive" - I am quite aware of the national stock shortage thank you - no need for the patronising comment.

Gentlemen, please!  ;)

I rather think the point here is that the 150 is already accounted for, in terms of pathing: it can't just be 'hijacked' into picking up those left behind on the main line, if the HST were to have reduced stops?  ::)

Shame. ::) I suppose that if the InterCity service was run by a 2 x 5 coach train (like the IEP), it could be split at Plymouth (or Exeter) into a fast and slow portion.

Now that's a much better idea. Indeed until very recently FGW had some stock that would have fitted the bill nicely, but that's another story. 

Even better, cascade some tilting voyagers that really shouldn't run under the wires to Scotland, and run two 5 car sets to Plymouth and split beyond Plymouth. Tilt enable some key sections of line such as Exeter to Plymouth, and you could get some decent journey time reductions.

You'd also have to eliminate the toilet smell though!

You said it, not me! ;D :P


I like this idea - despite the use of Voyagers. You would have to refurb them first to provide a decent travelling environment. When are people going to realise that tilting trains are required to slash journey times?

We could have, said by Phil Sayer (a la: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vSQ-N4TCjhg ):

"Platform 2, for the 1006 First Great Western service to Penzance. Calling at Reading, Taunton* and Exeter St Davids, where the train will then divide. Please ensure you travel on the correct portion of this train. Passengers for: Newton Abbot, Totnes, Plymouth, Bodmin Parkway, Truro and Penzance, must travel in the front 5 coaches, furthest from the ticket barrier at platform 2. Passengers for Dawlish, Teignmouth, Newton Abbot, Totnes, Ivybridge, Plymouth, Liskard, Bodmin Parkway, Lostwithiel, Par, St Austell, Truro, Redruth, Camborne, Hayle, St Erth and Penzance, must travel in the rear 5 coaches, nearest the ticket barrier at Platform 2. Passengers for Paignton should change at Newton Abbot. First Class accommodation is available on this train. A buffet service of hot and cold drinks, snacks and light refreshments is available on this train. A travelling chef service is available on this train. Platform 2, for the 1006 First Great Western service to Penzance."

That would compete with the "Portsmouth Harbour and Bognor Regis" announcement! :o

*Tauton stop fits in, as train has better acceleration.

isnt it scary how the voyagers seem like a good idea

No point in the slow portion calling at Bodmin and Truro really though!

It allows local travel within Cornwall however.

I wouldn't support such as scheme. No way I would want to swap HSTs for some underfloor engine pile of crap that should be scrapped. Then of course what happens when the rear 5 is more busy? More paths need to be paid for, more staff blah blah.

Thank you every body for your replies on this one while I have been away.
I also contacted the Convergence Cornwall office as they where mentioned in the press releases and they where very helpful in passing on my query to Cornwall Councils Transport Policy Officer who asked the General Manager at First Great Western to contact myself.
This he did on Friday, unfortunately I was not around to take the call but he left a very clear comprehensive message in answer to my query. I feel genuinely privileged to have received ecellent feedback from such a high level.

He explained the situation where the branch service was a fixed clock rotation that had to best fit with the main line non clock rotation taking into account the mainline shared track.

So from this my understanding is the situation came about because FGW had to produce a fixed "Clock Rotation" timetable that I believe was requested by Cornwall Council ?

This seams to be the nub of the problem as the shared main line is non Clock Rotation and the new timetable is a best fit for the whole day. I have not looked to if its possible, but maybe having more flexible timings though out the day on the branch could help?  Dare I say it less trains more connected please.

In reply to the previously tight times, yes ten minutes would be better for the stress levels especially if picking up tickets.

I expect the infrastructure only allows hourly or half hourly (with the stock available).

Seeing as they have just spent millions on the loop, I doubt they are going to cut the train numbers back to hourly!

Another added complication has to be that every train on the branch occupies the down main at Truro for around a minute so any changes to the branch timings have to avoid services to Penzance as well. 

Combining comments made on timings on the branch and connections, does anyone think that it may be worth reinstating the Falmouth-London through service which operated (though not daily by then) until the end of the 1970s ?

If Newquay has a Summer only HST from Paddington, I don't see why a Saturday Only service isn't at least trialled in 2010 or 2011. The only major issue being whether a HST can turn around in 3 minutes at Falmouth Docks to fit the clockface. In addition the selective door operation would perhaps be difficult to organise.

I travelled on a strange train yesterday 1240 Newquay through train to Truro arrived 1401 but it did not stop at Goonhavern or Perranporth.

Good connection at Truro for Perranwell though.

50 years ago, we could have travelled to London by direct train from Perranporth  - or St Agnes, St Ives, Carbis Bay, Falmouth, Penryn, Padstow, Wadebridge, Camelford, Launceston and Bude. Ah well...

Excuse me, but am I to understand from what you are saying that 50 years ago there was a direct train from St Agnes to London? St Agnes is in the Isles of Scilly, right?

Hmm. There is more than one 'St Agnes' (http://www.st-agnes.com/), Phil!  :P ::) ;D

once upon a time you could go direct to London Waterloo from okehampton... I wonder how long. The swt units wait at Exeter before there return....

Wouldn't fit in at all as anything other than a DMU is restricted to 30mph on the Falmouth branch!