Title: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 03, 2009, 15:56:30 Excellent news:
Quote NATIONAL EXPRESS has struck an outline deal with the government to scrap its troubled east-coast train franchise, which should pave the way for a ^400m rights issue and boardroom shake-up at the bus and rail group. Transport officials plan to replace the east-coast deal, struck with National Express just over two years ago, with a management contract, under which the company would operate the line for a fixed fee. It may then be relet to a new operator at a later date. The east-coast line, which links London to Edinburgh via York and Leeds, carries 17m passengers a year and employs 3,100 staff. National Express beat fierce competition to take it over, promising to pay nearly ^2 billion in premiums back to the government over eight years. But recession has left the company struggling to make money from the route. The government, led by rail minister Lord Adonis, has rejected requests for a renegotiation of the franchise. Rail-industry sources said a meeting on Thursday between Ray O^Toole, National Express^s UK chief executive, and Mike Mitchell, the top rail official at the Department for Transport (DfT), resulted in an outline agreement for the franchise to be suspended and replaced with a contract under which National Express would receive a flat management fee. Removal of the uncertainty should clear the way for a ^400m fundraising by National Express . It has just over ^1 billion in loans, with ^484m to be refinanced by February. A ^400m rights issue is seen as the most likely option, but it is understood that some shareholders have demanded management change before agreeing to support an injection of new equity. Insiders say Richard Bowker, National Express^s chief executive, may come under pressure from those unhappy at how the east-coast deal has played out. Bowker faces investors at the company^s annual meeting on Wednesday. National Express would not give details of its discussions with the DfT. ^All train-operating companies have regular meetings with the DfT and as a company we never talk about in public what we discuss in private,^ it said. The DfT said: ^As we have made clear on numerous occasions we do not renegotiate franchises.^ Source: http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/transport/article6210941.ece I also echo the reader comments made on the above page. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on May 03, 2009, 16:12:17 Wonder who will bid for the franchise when it is released Virgin? First? or DB? now that would set the hares running
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: RailCornwall on May 03, 2009, 16:55:56 I note the usual Nationalise it suspects are making comments in that direction. I predict it'll end up with an existing operator, despite my own feeling that a new entrant would be good, if and when it gets re-advertised.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: devon_metro on May 03, 2009, 17:01:39 Btline, your topic title is a tad "dailymail-esque"
They aren't scrapping it, simply changing the way its run. (If there is any truth in this at all!) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Zoe on May 03, 2009, 17:04:28 Wonder who will bid for the franchise when it is released Virgin? First? or DB? now that would set the hares running My first choice would be to renationalise but that isn't likely, my second would be to continue the management contract. If it is re-franchised though First would give the benefit of having all services out of Kings Cross owned by a single company.Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on May 03, 2009, 17:58:49 Btline, your topic title is a tad "dailymail-esque" They aren't scrapping it, simply changing the way its run. (If there is any truth in this at all!) Not true. A management contract is not a franchise. GNER ran it on behalf of the government under a management contract for the last few months. The franchise ended when the management contract was put in place. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Zoe on May 03, 2009, 18:07:16 Not true. A management contract is not a franchise. GNER ran it on behalf of the government under a management contract for the last few months. The franchise ended when the management contract was put in place. Virgin Cross Country went onto a management contract in 2002. The franchise was not re-let until 2007.Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: vacman on May 03, 2009, 18:14:43 Hope First get it so I get free travel on there then!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 03, 2009, 18:40:32 First group getting it would be a good idea, so the Hull trains, Harrogate trains (if they come) etc. can integrate.
Virgin getting would result in competition problems. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Super Guard on May 03, 2009, 20:05:47 Hope First get it so I get free travel on there then! ;DTitle: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: RailCornwall on May 03, 2009, 20:37:19 First group getting it would be a good idea, so the Hull trains, Harrogate trains (if they come) etc. can integrate. Virgin getting would result in competition problems. Why would those working for these services want to be integrated into a greater franchise, the cache of working for a perceived different and somewhat exclusive operation would be lost and of course when cuts are needed these operations would be under threat again? A wholly owned Virgin Franchise sounds attractive if it has to be a UK operator, not a 51:49 split with Stagecoach. DB Fernverkehr would be ideal leading to some interesting possibilties for through DB operation between Germany and the UK when the ICE arrives at St Pancras International. DB has the attraction too that it could drive it's own bargain as a major player with a huge amount of cache and prestige in Rail operations. It could have enough clout to sort out DFT Rail too. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on May 03, 2009, 22:31:04 Wonder what happened to the rule that if you hand your keys in to one franchise you hand them in for the lot.
I'm sure it would be highly embarrassing for DfT to have to take on three all at the same time, but I'm intrigued as to what weasel words they will use to justify not taking control of the LTS and London Eastern franchises. Given it's less than 2 years since DfT were crowing that they had managed to relet the East Coast franchise with a similar (of not larger) premium payment than GNER had contracted to, this whole episode will be very embarrassing for them. Don't suppose the management contract will replace the dining cars though..... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 03, 2009, 23:06:58 But NX have done a good job with c2c. (except the name) So should they have to hand the keys back for LTS?
Then again, finding an operator to operate LTS badly would be difficult. Even Arriva would manage... I think it will scupper there chance of getting their hands on Southern! ;D Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on May 04, 2009, 07:58:19 But NX have done a good job with c2c. (except the name) So should they have to hand the keys back for LTS? Then again, finding an operator to operate LTS badly would be difficult. Even Arriva would manage... I think it will scupper there chance of getting their hands on Southern! ;D Don't bet on it Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 04, 2009, 15:53:04 I think Govia should/will retain it.
When they realised a short franchise was needed until Thameslink was finished, why didn't they just extend the Southern franchise? If Govia do lose it, a lot of money will be wasted on re-branding, which will become obsolete within a few year. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: broadgage on May 04, 2009, 16:21:38 So thats what happens to TOCs that withdraw restaurants !
Now what other franchise has recently anounced plans to reduce restaurants? I suspect the withdrawal of meals on the East Coast route may have led to some busines travellers flying instead of going by train. The numbers were probably very small, but would have been full first open ticket holders. Those paying hundreds of pounds a ticket , are what pays for the railway, and the loss of quite small numbers of full first class passengers has a substantial effect on revenue. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on May 04, 2009, 17:01:37 I wish that were true, but the harsh reality is that employers everywhere are making cuts in business travel, changing policy to only permit standard travel, and so on. And at the other end of the market leisure travel will be hit, as well as commuting (though not sure how much of an impact the latter is for NXEC).
So I think the recession is to blame, though they may have lost a few more business tickets because of the loss of restaurant cars. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: r james on May 04, 2009, 21:39:10 Perhaps now is a time for franchises to consider reducing the amount of first class seating on their trains? Surely on XC this would be a hge advantage for the seating capacity?!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on May 05, 2009, 03:22:50 Perhaps now is a time for franchises to consider reducing the amount of first class seating on their trains? Surely on XC this would be a hge advantage for the seating capacity?! Urm... No! First Class on XC is often overcrowded and i've had occasions where i've had to sit in the luggage rack because there were no seats >:( A story that i'm sure Devon_Metro will fill you in on ;D :P :D Sorry if that post sounded a little ignorant, it wasn't ment to ;) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on May 05, 2009, 14:23:42 I think Govia should/will retain it. When they realised a short franchise was needed until Thameslink was finished, why didn't they just extend the Southern franchise? If Govia do lose it, a lot of money will be wasted on re-branding, which will become obsolete within a few year. There would be no real need to relivery 'Southern' under a new operator. They don't use 'GoVia' on the trains, and the overall colours are different to other GoVia franchises, so it would be perfectly possible to just remove the vinyled 'Southern' logo. Similarly, CrossCountry could be refranchised without any rebranding if it suited the incoming owner. (Though probably not if it was First or Virgin...) Paul Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: caliwag on May 05, 2009, 16:39:35 Nat Ex certainly did waste lots of money on a dreadful rebranding...the light colours just showing up all the crap and brake dust after one journey, no thought at all. Bet there are still some GNER branded coaches floating around.
All very sad really...staff moral must be at a very low ebb. Time Daft got a real grip...look at quality not quantity. GNER had it spot on (OK after picking up the the best and most up-to-date BR route...Inter-City East Coast were excellent), improve quality, customer service which included a pretty well guaranteed on train service, particularly in FC. They also some grand ideas about park and ride stations (just outside Edinburgh, Doncaster and at Hadleigh Wood) which got knocked back by the short sited Daft..."just run the trains, none of your grand plans wanted thanks". If you remember there were "grand blue sky thinking" plans for Paddington to the West equally knocked back by Daft...same response, just run the trains. Maybe things are changing, but until we get longer franchises, all we'll get are silly paint jobs...any more and the trains will not reach their top speed due to the weight of paint and decals!! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 05, 2009, 17:13:14 why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 05, 2009, 17:16:18 I think Govia should/will retain it. When they realised a short franchise was needed until Thameslink was finished, why didn't they just extend the Southern franchise? If Govia do lose it, a lot of money will be wasted on re-branding, which will become obsolete within a few year. There would be no real need to relivery 'Southern' under a new operator. They don't use 'GoVia' on the trains, and the overall colours are different to other GoVia franchises, so it would be perfectly possible to just remove the vinyled 'Southern' logo. Similarly, CrossCountry could be refranchised without any rebranding if it suited the incoming owner. (Though probably not if it was First or Virgin...) Paul But all companies think their brands are important. If Stagecoach win it, they'll re-paint all trains into their Red (local), blue (outer suburban) and white (express) colour theme. They did this with SWT and EMT. All of Govia's new signage/font/branding will be replaced with Stagecoach's. The same would happen with NX if they got it. And all for just a few years until half the routes become Thameslink. That's why Scotland has the right idea - one brand (including livery, signage) no matter who runs the trains. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on May 05, 2009, 18:37:29 why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want They would have to pay any company to offer the service, as all catering is loss-making. Not surprising when you realise how many places at stations you can buy a coffee and a snack before you join the train. And at Paddington you can even pop into M&S or Sainsburys and grab some booze as well if you're so inclined at a fraction of the on train price. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 05, 2009, 18:49:27 why dont they just subcontract catering ... let the buffet area out to an outside company that way they make money from renting the space and have no need to staff this would also provide the service that customers want They would have to pay any company to offer the service, as all catering is loss-making. Not surprising when you realise how many places at stations you can buy a coffee and a snack before you join the train. And at Paddington you can even pop into M&S or Sainsburys and grab some booze as well if you're so inclined at a fraction of the on train price. this has always surprised me on the railways! how can they run something at a loss which has such high profit margins? unlike a cafe or restrant they dont have to attract people threw the door lets face it they are already onboard! drop the prices abit and menu and price list on every seat you would see an increase, ok somethings like cooked meals are not going to work in that environment unless its prebooked and paid for but there is no reason why a more streamline buffet cant be popular and profitable! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: cereal_basher on May 05, 2009, 19:54:59 I have one of the freely-available on-line Bite cards giving me 20% off at station food outlets. It's another push to not buy on board. If they extended the Bite card offer so you could use it on board I am sure it would bring in extra revenue as there would be more customers, me included.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on May 05, 2009, 20:24:09 Lowering drinks to 99p would reap rewards for train buffets.
If this affects the profitability, then change supplier. (e.g. from Twinnings to PG Tips) On a train, I doubt people are going to be fussy about the kind of tea bag. I would much rather buy a "cheapo-make" tea for 99p than a "posh-organic make" tea for ^1.60. Ditto for Coke (use a cheap brand, buy in bulk and sell for 99p), coffee etc. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 05, 2009, 20:29:47 Lowering drinks to 99p would reap rewards for train buffets. If this affects the profitability, then change supplier. (e.g. from Twinnings to PG Tips) On a train, I doubt people are going to be fussy about the kind of tea bag. I would much rather buy a "cheapo-make" tea for 99p than a "posh-organic make" tea for ^1.60. Ditto for Coke (use a cheap brand, buy in bulk and sell for 99p), coffee etc. exactly lets face it how much is a tea bag, and milk works out at 5p a cup if that... at a pound there making 95 pence they could sell a hundred cups between penzance and paddington each trip easy and thats 95 quid, does the toc get to keep all the profit from food sold? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: devon_metro on May 05, 2009, 20:44:42 I often purchase a hot chocolate which, whatever price is maybe, is quite reasonable!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: cereal_basher on May 05, 2009, 20:47:20 I often purchase a hot chocolate which, whatever price is maybe, is quite reasonable! I am not sure how much First Great Western Hot Chocolates are, all I know is that they are foul, too watery. The First Class ones on the other hand are really good.Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on May 05, 2009, 20:49:37 Lowering drinks to 99p would reap rewards for train buffets. If this affects the profitability, then change supplier. (e.g. from Twinnings to PG Tips) On a train, I doubt people are going to be fussy about the kind of tea bag. I would much rather buy a "cheapo-make" tea for 99p than a "posh-organic make" tea for ^1.60. Ditto for Coke (use a cheap brand, buy in bulk and sell for 99p), coffee etc. exactly lets face it how much is a tea bag, and milk works out at 5p a cup if that... at a pound there making 95 pence they could sell a hundred cups between penzance and paddington each trip easy and thats 95 quid, does the toc get to keep all the profit from food sold? Ever heard of staffing costs, dIstribution costs, wastage, and so on..... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 05, 2009, 20:54:48 so fgw catering staff are on more than 95 a day? just one product would make that in one trip... yes i am aware that most food excluding mcdonalds is perishable and if you were buying food in bulk would you really expect to pay shipping costs? buy from a decent supplier and there wont be any
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: caliwag on May 05, 2009, 21:07:13 GNER trialled bottles of regional ale, which was a fantastic find, and went down well, at not over inflated prices. The cheese board went regional as well...sometimes all Scottish...sometimes Yorkshire, marvellous.
Best time was when you could buy a slice of pork pie and pickle (again from a regional supplier)...their catering manager must have had a fine time, but from a passenger's point of view it made the queueing and the journey worth while...very fond memories, yet surely not that difficult to realise!! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on May 05, 2009, 21:14:26 GNER trialled bottles of regional ale, which was a fantastic find, and went down well, at not over inflated prices. The cheese board went regional as well...sometimes all Scottish...sometimes Yorkshire, marvellous. Best time was when you could buy a slice of pork pie and pickle (again from a regional supplier)...their catering manager must have had a fine time, but from a passenger's point of view it made the queueing and the journey worth while...very fond memories, yet surely not that difficult to realise!! the only reason i can see for them not making an effort is that they dont get to keep the money it just goes to the government Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: dog box on May 05, 2009, 22:02:55 Well Well National Express have gone belly up......was this shower not the driving force behind the much celebrated Wessex Trains??
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: cereal_basher on May 05, 2009, 22:08:00 Wessex Trains was indeed a National Express Franchise. The difference was Wessex Trains were subsidised, no large premiums due to the government. National Express also bid for the FGW franchise but lost, this time as they made realistic forecasts on the amount of money they could pay the government, unlike with NXEC.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: r james on May 07, 2009, 20:21:30 Im sure the next year willbe interesting with this franchise!!
I say it will end up with either Virgin or Arriva. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: stebbo on May 07, 2009, 20:23:29 Wessex Trains was indeed a National Express Franchise. The difference was Wessex Trains were subsidised, no large premiums due to the government. National Express also bid for the FGW franchise but lost, this time as they made realistic forecasts on the amount of money they could pay the government, unlike with NXEC.
And hopefully unlike FGW..... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on July 01, 2009, 07:41:35 It has been confirmed that NatEx are to lose their NXEC franchise, with the route being taken back into temporary state ownership.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8127851.stm Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Phil on July 01, 2009, 07:47:17 I'm really going to miss their website. Their ticket booking process was the best around.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on July 01, 2009, 08:00:41 Well here's hoping that website will stay.....ideal for a Solo debit card holder like me. I think it will stay with the 'new' franchise, after all it was inherited from GNER.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Henry on July 01, 2009, 08:07:40 Now there is the East Coast mainline up for grabs, I wonder if First Group will continue their interest in National Express ? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Brucey on July 01, 2009, 08:20:54 The Southern website (http://www.southernrailway.com) uses the same booking engine as NXEC. Govia's other franchises (London Midland and Southeastern) also use the Mixing Deck.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Lee on July 01, 2009, 08:42:10 Adonis statement can be found here - http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/franchisedrailservices
I guess the big question arises from the following quote: Quote from: Andrew Adonis National Express also operates rail services on the East Anglia main line and associated commuter routes. The company has said that it does not intend to default on its obligations in respect of these franchises. Notwithstanding this, the Government believes it may have grounds to terminate these franchises, and we are exploring all options in the light of the Group^s statement this morning. In the meantime, we expect National Express to meet its obligations on these franchises in full. A company which had defaulted in the way National Express now intends would not have pre-qualifed for any previous franchises let by the Department. I note that the parent groups of previous franchise failures are no longer in the UK rail business. It is simply unacceptable to reap the benefits of contracts when times are good, only to walk away from them when times become more challenging. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on July 01, 2009, 09:02:22 Adonis statement can be found here - http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/franchisedrailservices I guess the big question arises from the following quote: Quote from: Andrew Adonis National Express also operates rail services on the East Anglia main line and associated commuter routes. The company has said that it does not intend to default on its obligations in respect of these franchises. Notwithstanding this, the Government believes it may have grounds to terminate these franchises, and we are exploring all options in the light of the Group^s statement this morning. In the meantime, we expect National Express to meet its obligations on these franchises in full. A company which had defaulted in the way National Express now intends would not have pre-qualifed for any previous franchises let by the Department. I note that the parent groups of previous franchise failures are no longer in the UK rail business. It is simply unacceptable to reap the benefits of contracts when times are good, only to walk away from them when times become more challenging. Here is how National Express see the 'cross-default' situation. (Extract from their trading statement released 01/07/2009 - full statement can be found here: http://www.nationalexpressgroup.com/nx1/media/news/rns/rnsitem?id=1246428012nRnsA8563U&t=popup) "If, despite the best efforts of NXEC and the full utilisation of National Express' committed financial support, trading conditions result in NXEC being unable to meet its financial obligations under the terms of the East Coast franchise agreement, the Board believes that the Secretary of State would have a duty to reassume control of the franchise. Should such circumstances arise, National Express believes that the Secretary of State would not be permitted either to recover from National Express any losses arising from any possible breach of the franchise agreement by NXEC or to execute the right of cross default contained in the franchise agreements for NXEA and c2c. Cross default can only be applied where the Secretary of State can reasonably expect that the default under one franchise within an owning group has a material impact on the other franchises within that group. However, the Group believes that the Secretary of State would have no grounds on which to come to this conclusion in circumstances where the Group has satisfied in full all of the parental support obligations to which the DfT asked it to commit at the time of tendering the East Coast franchise and awarding it to NXEC, and will continue to do so at both NXEA and c2c. National Express has taken and received clear and detailed advice from leading legal Counsel upon its, and its subsidiaries', positions under the East Coast and other franchise agreements and is confident that the implication of any NXEC default should be confined to the NXEC franchise. The Group would oppose any attempt by the DfT to cross default, in order to protect shareholder value." Looks like we could be heading to the courts if Adonis pushes for 'cross-default'. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Tim on July 01, 2009, 09:11:07 Quote from: Andrew Adonis A company which had defaulted in the way National Express now intends would not have pre-qualifed for any previous franchises let by the Department. I note that the parent groups of previous franchise failures are no longer in the UK rail business. It is simply unacceptable to reap the benefits of contracts when times are good, only to walk away from them when times become more challenging. I take this as a welcome suggestion that NX will not be winning any more franchises and a threat to the likes of First that they will be similarly punished if they walk away from any of their franchises. Good man Adonis Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on July 01, 2009, 09:16:44 Over the years Richard Bowker has sung the praises of the franchise system - in fact he helped draw up the current modified system during his time at the Strategic Rail Authority. Turns out he may be good at writing the rules but not so good at sticking to them ;D
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Timmer on July 01, 2009, 18:07:52 I take this as a welcome suggestion that NX will not be winning any more franchises and a threat to the likes of First that they will be similarly punished if they walk away from any of their franchises. Exactly how it should be as well!Good man Adonis Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on July 01, 2009, 18:19:38 From what date and time were NXEC 'stripped of the franchise' then?
All that the many news websites seem to confirm is that the franchise will be cancelled at some date in the future whenever NXEC miss a payment, but that hasn't happened yet. Paul Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: willc on July 02, 2009, 00:17:14 Lord Adonis's statement to the House of Lords is here http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/eastcoastfranchise (http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/eastcoastfranchise)
He makes clear the process of setting up a state operating firm is in hand, with Elaine Holt, former md of First Capital Connect, the chief executive designate. The Guardian website says the handover from NX to the Government will be by the end of this year. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on July 02, 2009, 21:33:38 Lord Adonis's statement to the House of Lords is here http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/eastcoastfranchise (http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/speechesstatements/statements/eastcoastfranchise) He makes clear the process of setting up a state operating firm is in hand, with Elaine Holt, former md of First Capital Connect, the chief executive designate. The Guardian website says the handover from NX to the Government will be by the end of this year. At last we seem to have a Secretary of State who is not prepared to kowtow to the TOCs. One wonders if Ruth Kelly or Geoff Hoon would've been so forthright. I also welcome Lord Adonis' assertion that the catering provision on the East Coast will be part of a new franchise commitment. One thing that sets Virgin West Coast apart is their complimentary hot food provision for 1st class ticket holders. NXEC's cutting of the trains running restaurants was shameful. Yes, I agree that freshly prepared food may not make a profit, but the point is it make the services more attractive to potential customers. FGW recognised this when reducing their Pullman services. The change to Travelling Chef was an excellent compromise. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on July 02, 2009, 21:57:13 Given NE are losing money on the franchise, I would have thought the move will now happen as swiftly as the mechanics of transferring the business in an orderly manner can happen. Which means probably no more than a couple of months.
Wonder whether a state run company will keep the seat reservation charge? It also throws into some doubt the proposed increase in services and the acquisition of Adelantes. Maybe Grand Northen will now be able to snap up the ones it needs. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on July 02, 2009, 23:31:46 Wonder whether a state run company will keep the seat reservation charge? Course they will. It worked OK for BR all those years ago. And I feel sure it is predominantly aimed at cutting down the no shows when ticket types don't NEED reservations. Aren't Advance fares still free of charge anyway? Paul Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: moonrakerz on July 03, 2009, 07:07:33 From this morning's "Telelgraph" ;D ;D ;D
(http://i44.tinypic.com/2820s4l.jpg) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2009, 09:41:40 From BBC News (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8343758.stm)
Quote National Express will hand the running of the East Coast Main Line to the government at one minute to midnight on Friday 13 November. The government said in July that it would take over the route, which runs trains between London and Edinburgh. Ministers had refused National Express's requests for its contract with the government to be renegotiated. National Express said it did not expect passengers, services or employees to be affected by the handover. The company has been struggling with the franchise since it turned out that the amount it agreed to pay to run services on the line was too much. National Express agreed in 2007 to pay ^1.4bn over seven years to run the line. The transport group stressed that its two other rail franchises would not be affected by the transfer of the East Coast franchise, although the government had threatened to take them back when National Express decided to hand back the East Coast franchise. National Express East Anglia runs trains from the east of England to London Liverpool Street as well as operating the Stansted Express, while c2c operates in the south of Essex, with trains going into London Fenchurch Street. The East Coast franchise will now be operated by a government-controlled group called Directly Operated Railways. Staff currently employed on the line by National Express will transfer to the new company. It is expected to stay in government hands until 2011 when there is likely to be a fresh auction. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2009, 11:38:14 I've just noticed the date for the handover. Obviously nobody's superstitious at the DfT!
There is more detail about the handover on the Dft website here. (http://www.dft.gov.uk/dor/) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on November 05, 2009, 17:13:23 I've just noticed the date for the handover. Obviously nobody's superstitious at the DfT! There is more detail about the handover on the Dft website here. (http://www.dft.gov.uk/dor/) Friday 13th November. Hmm. And wasn't there a big change on 1st April 2006 as well? Perhaps someon on the road side is superstitious and sets such dates ;D Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 13, 2009, 06:00:29 Latest news from the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/8358100.stm):
Quote State taking over key rail route One of Britain's key rail routes is to be taken into public hands later. National Express will hand back East Coast Mainline services between London and Edinburgh and the rest of the East Coast franchise just before midnight. Falling revenue and rising costs left it unable to meet a commitment to pay ^1.4bn for the franchise until 2015. A government company, Directly Operated Railways, will run the franchise for at least 18 months. Ministers say staff and services will be unaffected. Scottish First Minister Alex Salmond has raised fears that services on the franchise's Glasgow branch, which provide 25,000 seats a week, will be scrapped by the end of next year. 'Radical reform' However, Labour's Lord Foulkes said he had contacted UK Transport Secretary Lord Adonis's office to be told that "no proposals for change" in the timetable had been put to him. Ministers had refused National Express's requests to renegotiate the franchise, which it has run since 2007. It will instead be offered again at auction, probably in 2011. Earlier this week National Express, which also operates coaches, said it plans to raise ^360m from investors in order to cut its debts of ^1.1bn. Unions have called for the company's other franchises, covering routes between London and both East Anglia and southern Essex, to be taken away. The RMT union wants the government to use the East Coast development as a first step to renationalising the whole railway network. General secretary Bob Crow said: "The game's up for railway privatisation in the UK. The bulk of the other rail franchises are only being kept afloat by hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer subsidy." Shadow transport secretary Theresa Villiers has called for "radical reform" of the franchising process to encourage "better long-term strategic planning". Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Henry on November 13, 2009, 09:28:08 General secretary Bob Crow said: "The game's up for railway privatisation in the UK. The bulk of the other rail franchises are only being kept afloat by hundreds of millions of pounds of taxpayer subsidy."
You can't argue with that. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: caliwag on November 13, 2009, 09:29:08 Common sense prevails...
York ticket barrier scheme abandoned Improvements to on-train catering Later train on Saturday KX to Leeds At last some experts...rid of the bus driving amateurs! ;D http://www.google.com/hostednews/ukpress/article/ALeqM5gi-prV0_Iyn4c9u0q3RrvyLrL9Qw Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on November 13, 2009, 10:13:57 bring back the GNER Livery ;D
The NXEC Livery is the most tacky thing i've ever seen, makes it look so cheap, when really, they charge some of the most expensive tickets on the Railway Network... :o Also, anyone find it quite amusing that the same livery on their coaches sets their image "Uncomfortable Unreliableness..." ;D ::) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on January 05, 2010, 21:53:04 Just recieved an email from 'East Coast' highlighting their improved 1st class offering:
Quote We've extended our range of complimentary snacks in First Class. If you believe a cup of coffee or tea isn't complete without a tasty little snack, you'll be pleased to know the next time you travel First Class we'll offer you a whole host of delicious treats ^ with our compliments. We've listened to your feedback and are working with a range of gourmet snack suppliers including Caf^ Bronte, Eat Natural and Burts to bring you a wider selection of complimentary nibbles. Our on-board team will offer you a choice from biscuits, fruitcake, peanuts, yoghurt bars and hand fried potato crisps. The selection available will depend on the time of day you're travelling. We realise this is a small step along the way to improving our First Class service, but it is just the first. We will continue to make things better and listen to what you have to say. So keep an eye on our website where you'll always find the latest news and developments. A welcome first step..... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Super Guard on January 06, 2010, 04:27:58 So they are offering what FGW already does (which most say is not good enough), but 'depending on time that you travel' ?
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on January 06, 2010, 14:23:27 Until it's at the VT level, it's not good enough.
But it's a good start, and shows that the nationalisation will allow the service to get back to where it was before NX got their dirty hands on the keys. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on January 06, 2010, 14:39:23 Until it's at the VT level, it's not good enough. Do you express that view as a regular HSS 1st class passenger Btline? I'm reasonably happy with the level of complementaries I get, and would not be happy if my fare had to rise several hundred pounds a year to pay for the food offering that Virgin provide. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 13, 2010, 22:36:16 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8565797.stm):
Quote CCTV cameras are to be installed in trains on the East Coast Mainline in a bid to deter anti-social behaviour. More than 1,600 cameras will be fitted on the entire fleet of 43 trains run by the government-operated East Coast trains. They will include in-carriage cameras as well as forward-facing cameras in drivers' cabs. Engineering director Ian Duncan said the move demonstrated a commitment to passenger safety. He said: "On the very rare occasions when a minority of individuals cause problems on our trains, CCTV systems on board will help protect passengers and our staff against anti-social behaviour, assist authorities with convictions against offenders and hopefully act as a deterrent. The introduction of CCTV on board our trains will help to reassure our customers that the train is a safe way to travel." Work to fit CCTV systems to East Coast's electric trains is already under way, starting with the installation of cameras in the driver's cab. Cameras will be installed in the carriages on the electric trains in April. Similarly, work on the diesel High Speed Trains (HSTs) has already commenced, with two full train sets complete, and the remaining sets expected to be complete by October. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on March 14, 2010, 06:27:50 More than 1,600 cameras will be fitted on the entire fleet of 43 trains run by the government-operated East Coast trains. They will include in-carriage cameras as well as forward-facing cameras in drivers' cabs. So that's more that 37 cameras per train. Who's going to be watching them all? What proportion of time is the average CCTV actually being watched? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: old original on March 14, 2010, 09:04:22 They will be used for "after the event" viewing, i.e. when something happens then they will be looked at later for evidence.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: readytostart on March 16, 2010, 01:49:01 Indeed, recorded onto a hard drive, either internal or external to the OTMR, very good quality if what I saw of FSR CCTV was anything to go by.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: inspector_blakey on March 16, 2010, 03:04:36 The images from CCTV on FGW units that BTP have been releasing are also veyr high quality. Just a shame that the press releases are never put out until a month or more after the event!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: TerminalJunkie on April 20, 2010, 06:23:48 Quote from: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8631062.stm Train drivers' union Aslef is planning to put in a bid to run a main railway line as a not-for-profit business. 18 days too late! :D Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on April 20, 2010, 17:20:35 Be interesting to see
Wonder what would happen if ASLEF were the successful bidder and then the RMT or TSSA called for industrial action over dispute its members had with their employer Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: vacman on April 21, 2010, 17:13:58 Be interesting to see be even funnier if ASLEF members went on strike!Wonder what would happen if ASLEF were the successful bidder and then the RMT or TSSA called for industrial action over dispute its members had with their employer Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 19, 2010, 20:43:10 From the BBC (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8692300.stm):
Quote Train guards on the East Coast Mainline between London and Scotland are to be balloted over strike action next week. The Rail Maritime and Transport Union said members would vote whether to walk out in a row over the introduction of automated ticket barriers. The union claims a fall in commission from the collection of on-board fares has left guards "seriously out of pocket" and undermined their position. East Coast Mainline said any action was "completely unnecessary". "We don't believe there's a genuine appetite for it among our guards - and it's the last thing our customers want," he said. Union general secretary Bob Crow said: "Our members have made it clear that the loss of earnings arising from automation on East Coast is totally unacceptable. They are not prepared to see the position of the guard undermined to the point where these key staff are reduced to become amongst the lowest-paid guards in the country. East Coast Mainline needs to show very clearly they appreciate the role and responsibility of their guards with an offer that fully recognises the loss of income incurred through the installation of ticket barriers." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Phil on November 05, 2010, 08:32:40 A debatable point, perhaps. Interesting article in today's Guardian though.
And not only posted here because of the rather fetching photo of the Chairman. Quote East Coast's chairman, Elaine Holt, accepts that erasing the memory of recent events is a problem. "This is Britain's premier railway and there is a lot of pride in it among staff and passengers. What we are doing is trying to put some pride back in the railway. It is a company that has failed twice, and that inevitably has an impact on the service." Link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/elaine-holt-east-coast (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/elaine-holt-east-coast) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 05, 2010, 12:36:34 And not only posted here because of the rather fetching photo of the Chairman. Ms Holt certainly scrubbed up better than the loco in the background of that picture! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: caliwag on November 05, 2010, 21:58:22 Travelled YRK to KGX and back today...on time, excellent service and quality food, both ways...nae complaints: should stay public to my mind just as a benchmark. It'll only get picked up by some asset-stripping private equity outfit who'll sack half the staff and close down the messy bits like Aberdeen and Inversnecky...you watch! ::)
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on December 20, 2010, 16:53:17 Bumping this thread as East Coast are further improving their 1st Class offering in May 2011.
From the guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/elaine-holt-east-coast). Part of a much larger interview with the fragrant Elaine Holt: Quote Appropriately for a state-owned business, any drama surrounding the route these days is more reminiscent of the British Rail era: punctuality, problems with train doors, getting the catering up to scratch, and grappling with a new timetable. Holt says that, contrary to industry gossip, the timetable is on track for 22 May, bringing a four-hour service to Edinburgh and complimentary hot meals in first-class. "It's not just a new timetable, it's a new product." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Brucey on December 20, 2010, 16:59:06 However they now charge for more than 15 minutes Wi-Fi in Standard, which was previously free throughout the train.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on December 20, 2010, 18:07:52 Their free Wi-Fi in standard was a nightmare when I and a friend used it, earlier this year. Speedtest gave us readings little better dial-up. My 3 dongle performed much better.
I do hear things have improved though, so maybe the investment in that improvement has come at the cost of having to charge customers in Standard. At least East Coast have Wi-Fi. CrossCountry still haven't made good on their franchise commitment to install it on their fleet. They are now over a year late with this commitment and have already been fined once by the DfT for this breach of their franchise agreement. They are still arguing there are technical difficulties installing it on the Class 220/221. Maybe they should give Virgin or East Midlands a call. Virgin have managed to install it on their Vomiters and EMT have also begun rolling it out on their, technically very similar, fleet of Meridians. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: SDS on December 20, 2010, 22:03:18 I still remember the days of FGW when you could get free cans of orangina/coke/fanta etc. That went when certain managers were spotted putting crates of cans into the back of their cars. Now of course nothing was proven (or disproven), but they just withdrew the cans.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Louis94 on December 20, 2010, 22:18:37 I still remember the days of FGW when you could get free cans of orangina/coke/fanta etc. That went when certain managers were spotted putting crates of cans into the back of their cars. Now of course nothing was proven (or disproven), but they just withdrew the cans. I was wondering why they stopped doing free cans of coke in first class! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2010, 22:30:55 certain managers As in Train Managers or Management Managers? Or are you not at liberty to divulge...? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: SDS on December 20, 2010, 22:38:07 Well in those days TMs were called Senior Conductors, (I think the cans went back that far) or something like that!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on December 20, 2010, 22:47:12 Cans were withdrawn less than 2 years ago, as they were still available when I started commuting to Swindon.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Mookiemoo on December 20, 2010, 23:05:43 I still remember the days of FGW when you could get free cans of orangina/coke/fanta etc. That went when certain managers were spotted putting crates of cans into the back of their cars. Now of course nothing was proven (or disproven), but they just withdrew the cans. I was wondering why they stopped doing free cans of coke in first class! from what I have been told unofficially - they were sick of people taking several cans to consume during the day Easy to solve, pop the can on handing over but no, they through baby out with bath water Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: willc on December 21, 2010, 00:24:14 Bumping this thread as East Coast are further improving their 1st Class offering in May 2011. From the guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/business/2010/nov/05/elaine-holt-east-coast). Part of a much larger interview with the fragrant Elaine Holt: Quote Appropriately for a state-owned business, any drama surrounding the route these days is more reminiscent of the British Rail era: punctuality, problems with train doors, getting the catering up to scratch, and grappling with a new timetable. Holt says that, contrary to industry gossip, the timetable is on track for 22 May, bringing a four-hour service to Edinburgh and complimentary hot meals in first-class. "It's not just a new timetable, it's a new product." Bignosemac, would you call Mark Hopwood "fragrant"? Though not, so why Ms Holt? And you and The Guardian seem to have been taken in by her spin team. What they are also doing when introducing "complimentary" first class meals is withdrawing all restaurant car services. So if you are in standard, taking a nice short hop, say London to Edinburgh, all you can get by way of hot food is a microwaved something from the buffet. And even in first it will only be snacks at lunchtime. They are adopting Virgin's approach, so there won't be anything like Travelling Chef available, which for a firm operating journeys the length EC does is pretty poor, to put it politely. See Barry Doe's column in the current issue of Rail for a dissection of the demise of the restaurant car since privatisation. FGW's Pullmans between London and Plymouth will be the last of their kind still running come next May. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on December 21, 2010, 00:40:34 NXEA also removed the Resturant Service from their services a couple of years back...!
Although doesn't Grand Central offer a restaurant to Standard Class Pax?? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on December 21, 2010, 01:18:32 Bignosemac, would you call Mark Hopwood "fragrant"? Though not, so why Ms Holt? And you and The Guardian seem to have been taken in by her spin team. So if you are in standard, taking a nice short hop, say London to Edinburgh, all you can get by way of hot food is a microwaved something from the buffet. Okay, maybe the comment I made about Elaine Holt was a little sexist. For that I apologise for any offence I may have caused. As for the spin, I was just quoting what was said in the article preceded with my own comment that this is, as I see it, a further improvement for all 1st class passengers. The thread is about 'comps' for 1st class passengers, not about what is or is not available for those in Standard. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: willc on December 22, 2010, 00:19:59 I see, so who cares about standard getting a significantly worse service, just so long as first is getting a purportedly better one? Ever heard of seeing the bigger picture, as all the changes EC is making are related, whatever bit of the train you are sitting in?
And the "further improvement" you describe will probably offer a poorer choice of hot meals on late-afternoon and early evening trains than is currently available to first class passengers. According to Barry Doe, all there will be by way of 'free' food for first class passengers in the middle of the day, even on Anglo-Scottish trains, as part of your "further improvement", is sandwiches. Of course, as ever, none of it is 'complimentary' anyway. So you'll still have to pay for it, even if you don't want breakfast in the morning or a meal on the way home. Quote Although doesn't Grand Central offer a restaurant to Standard Class Pax?? No. Was supposed to happen but never has. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on March 24, 2011, 22:21:12 National Express are shortly to be down to just one franchise, C2C, after failing to make the shortlist for the stop-gap 17 month Greater Anglia franchise.
From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-12853304): Quote A new company is set to run rail services in East Anglia. Existing operator National Express East Anglia was not shortlisted for the Greater Anglia franchise, which starts next year. The three companies on the list are the Go-Ahead Group, Stagecoach and Nederlande Spoorwagen. National Express said it would seek clarification from the Department for Transport (DfT) over the decision. The Greater Anglia franchise will start on 5 February 2012 and run for 17 months with an option to extend by up to one year. The DfT said this shorter franchise would allow time for reforms arising from the current McNulty review into rail value for money to be properly considered. 'Very disappointed' In a statement, the DfT said objectives for the franchise would include delivering a quality of service for passengers for their entire journey and working with Network Rail to maintain performance. A National Express spokesperson said: "We are very disappointed not to have been shortlisted to bid for the Greater Anglia franchise. "We believe we put forward a very positive and high quality submission building on the significant improvements delivered on National Express East Anglia. "We are therefore seeking further clarification from the Department for Transport to explain this decision." Peter Lawrence, president of campaign group Railfuture, said: "I'm surprised. I thought they [National Express] would probably get a 17-month extension. "I think they're doing the best they can within the circumstances they have to operate in. "It won't make much difference to passengers. It doesn't seem worthwhile changing operators for such a short period of time." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Timmer on March 24, 2011, 22:24:10 Despite a change of government it looks like National Express group are still not flavour of the month down at the Dft. Still they could always bounce back when the franchise is re-let in a couple of years time!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: woody on March 25, 2011, 21:44:02 The InterCity East Coast passenger rail franchise- National Audit Office Press Releases - 24 Mar 2011 12:33 http://www.wired-gov.net/wg/wg-news-1.nsf/0/6041908DE7A866758025785D00457B4A
Amyas Morse, head of the National Audit Office, said today: "In terminating the East Coast passenger rail franchise, the Department for Transport acted decisively to protect the public interest and achieved value for money by avoiding the significant risk that other holding companies would seek negotiated exits from their loss-making franchises." Worth a read for its possible implications on the future of the Great Western Franchise. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Rhydgaled on March 25, 2011, 22:16:07 Why oh why are they planning to re-let the franchise??!?!?!?!?! Nationalisation = much cheaper railways. British Rail was not much better at providing the services, if at all, but a lot cheaper and no worse.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Ollie on March 26, 2011, 01:11:24 Why oh why are they planning to re-let the franchise??!?!?!?!?! Nationalisation = much cheaper railways. British Rail was not much better at providing the services, if at all, but a lot cheaper and no worse. Cheaper for who?Certainly not the passenger, East Coast haven't put fares down, so I don't see where you're coming from? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Henry on March 26, 2011, 07:37:08 Considering 'passenger's best interests' I think it would be unfair to rule out any option to re-franchise the East Coast. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Rhydgaled on March 26, 2011, 09:08:13 Why oh why are they planning to re-let the franchise??!?!?!?!?! Nationalisation = much cheaper railways. British Rail was not much better at providing the services, if at all, but a lot cheaper and no worse. Cheaper for who?Certainly not the passenger, East Coast haven't put fares down, so I don't see where you're coming from? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ReWind on March 26, 2011, 18:03:11 I know it's no way near FGW land, but it is affecting some of our XC services!!
A major signalling blackout has occured in the Northallerton area, north of York! Similar to what happened in Cardiff recently, but affecting a larger area, thus more severe!! Trains are currently well over two hours late from Newcastle, and this is still growing all the time!! Many EC and XC services cancelled too! With the rally in London, I sure wouldn't want to be at Kings Cross tonight!! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on March 26, 2011, 18:31:02 ive been getting updates on this from a friend on facebook who was stuck in the same place for over two and a half hours
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 26, 2011, 22:24:05 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-12871897):
Quote East Coast rail line disrupted by signal failure Hundreds of passengers were stranded on trains on the East Coast main line because of a signal failure. Five passenger trains and five freight trains were brought to a standstill due to the problem in the York area, Network Rail said. Other services were disrupted or cancelled. Passengers were being advised to travel only if absolutely necessary. The East Coast main line runs between London Kings Cross and Scotland. A Network Rail spokesman said the problem was with its signalling software and at this stage officials had no idea how long it would take to fix. The affected train companies included CrossCountry, East Coast, First TransPennine Express, Grand Central and Northern Rail. East Coast introduced a revised timetable. A number of replacement bus services were being offered around the affected area. They included First TransPennine Express between York and Middlesbrough, Northern Rail York to Poppleton and CrossCountry between York and Darlington. BBC Radio Five Live reporter Steph McGovern said she was stuck on a London-bound Grand Central train near Northallerton in North Yorkshire for six hours. Passengers were eventually allowed to climb down a ladder and walk along the track to a level crossing. She said people on the train had been provided with free food and drink. Other trains were evacuated in the same way, she said. Three months ago thousands of East Coast main line passengers had their journeys disrupted by a power failure at Huntingdon in Cambridgeshire. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 26, 2011, 22:56:09 From the Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/travel/travelnews/8409046/Thousands-trapped-in-rail-signal-chaos.html):
Quote Thousands trapped in rail signal chaos Thousands of passengers were trapped on trains for more than five hours on Saturday by a major signalling failure on the East Coast main line. Five passenger trains were stranded between York and Northallerton when a computer failure caused local signalling systems to shut down shortly after 1pm. Network Rail said it did not know how many were on board each train, but that most of those affected were on board express trains operated by East Coast. Passengers on a Grand Central train had to be evacuated using ladders and were taken on to the next station by road. Some of the trains could not be moved out of the affected area until 6.45pm, while dozens of other services up and down the line were delayed by several hours. The fault caused other trains to be cancelled or disrupted and bus replacement services were brought in on some journeys. Among the passengers affected was BBC Radio Five Live reporter Steph McGovern, who was heading to London when her train got stuck near Northallerton for six hours. She told the BBC passengers were eventually allowed to climb down a ladder and walk along the track to a level crossing. They had been provided with free food and drink during the wait. Greg Neale, a former Sunday Telegraph journalist, was stuck on a northbound train outside Doncaster for two hours. He said: ^The train crew were very good and eventually gave out free cups of tea and water. There were a lot of frustrated passengers. At York there were a lot of Scotland football fans heading south who had been put on replacement coach services from places further north so clearly they must have endured a similarly long delay.^ A Network Rail spokeswoman said: "We had our systems engineers working on it to fix the fault but we had quite severe problems this afternoon. Obviously for those people on these trains there has been significant disruption. We can only offer our sincere apologies." Network Rail said tonight that after repairing the faulty signalling system some long distance services had been restored but there were still problems at a regional level, where services are not expected to return to normal until tomorrow. British Transport Police stressed the delays were not caused by cable theft. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 27, 2011, 17:36:45 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-york-north-yorkshire-12874623):
Quote East Coast rail delays spark passenger anger Train passengers left stranded by signalling problems on the East Coast main line have complained of being left to fend for themselves. Many people were eventually brought to York station after being stuck on trains for hours. Middlesbrough passenger Mike Oyston said: "It was just chaos, there was no information at all." A spokesman for train operator East Coast said: "We sincerely apologise for the queues and inconvenience." He said the company had tried to keep passengers informed by sending members of staff to York station. "Part of the problem was that we didn't know the exact times when this situation would be resolved so the amount of information we had was limited," he said. "Clearly we had a difficult weekend." However, passengers would be eligible for compensation payments under its '"delay repay" scheme. Most of East Coast's services were operating normally on Sunday, he added. However, Mr Oyston said he was angry that he had to arrange for a friend to drive to York from Middlesbrough to take him home. "There were about 1,000 people waiting to get home from York station," he said. "We were not told anything. We were directed to the back car park and left to get on with it. We're not happy at all." Grandmother Pat Feetham, of Hull, also complained of a lack of information after being stuck on a train from Scotland for almost five hours. "They ran out of food, it was very cold and we didn't know what was happening until a police officer got on the train and said there were buses to take us to York. We're not happy." As delays continued on some services on Sunday, National Rail Enquiries said a number of train crews and trains were not in the right place to run. It advised people to check before travelling. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on March 27, 2011, 17:49:34 A friend of mine was heading back to London from Newcastle on Saturday afternoon/evening. He eventually got his ticket endorsed so that he could travel Newcastle-Carlisle-Euston. Despite the much longer journey he was quite chuffed, because he'd never travelled the Tyne Valley Line beyond Prudhoe and the TM on the Virgin service from Carlisle gave him a gratis Weekend First upgrade!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ReWind on March 30, 2011, 17:50:22 ECML is closed again tonight between Grantham and Newark! This time due to a fatality!
And we think we got it bad are way!! ::) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 31, 2011, 00:40:05 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-12913637):
Quote East Coast rail services disrupted after body found Services on the East Coast Main Line have been badly disrupted after a person was struck by a train. Major delays are being reported between Doncaster and London King's Cross after the incident earlier this afternoon at Grantham, Lincolnshire. There are currently no East Coast, First Hull Trains and Grand Central services through the area but First Capital Connect are not affected. Police confirmed a body had been found on the line near Grantham station. A spokesman for train operator East Coast said: "We can confirm that a person was hit by an East Coast train at around 4pm this afternoon at a location just north of Grantham. The train is currently being held at the location by the British Transport Police. As a result the line is closed in both directions: the location is a two-track stretch of line with no diversionary route available." Disruption is expected until services resume Thursday morning. A spokesman for British Transport Police said: "Officers were called to the line close to Grantham after a report that a person had been struck by a train. Inquiries have begun to establish the identity of the body and the circumstances leading up to the death." A passenger at Retford said they had been at a standstill for more than an hour and were being served refreshments by staff. Other operators are accepting East Coast tickets for journeys between London and the North, including East Midlands Trains from London St Pancras and Virgin Trains via London Euston. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 31, 2011, 03:11:05 From the Grantham Journal (http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/traffic-and-transport/breaking_news_man_hit_by_a_train_in_grantham_1_2548966):
Quote Man hit by a train in Grantham Emergency services are currently at the railway bridge in Barrowby Road, Grantham, where a man died on the train tracks. The man is believed to have been struck by a train. The news follows a report on the Journal^s website on Friday morning of a 44-year-old Grantham man threatening to jump from the same railway bridge. We reported how he was standing on the bridge for just over an hour before police managed to get him down and arrest him for trespassing. He was detained under the Mental Health Act. National Rail has confirmed there are major delays on the lines through Grantham due to this afternoon^s incident. Rail passengers were being forced to abandon their journey home at Grantham station where buses where buses were being arranged to pick them up. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 31, 2011, 13:57:05 An update, from the Grantham Journal (http://www.granthamjournal.co.uk/news/traffic-and-transport/grantham_woman_killed_on_rail_tracks_at_barrowby_road_bridge_1_2548966):
Quote Grantham woman killed on rail tracks at Barrowby Road bridge A woman from Grantham took her own life by throwing herself in front of a train at Barrowby Road bridge on Wednesday afternoon. The 45-year-old woman, who has not yet been formally identified, died when she was struck by a train at around 4.15pm. The train was the 15.00 Kings Cross to Glasgow East Coast Trains service. The death is not being linked to an incident on Thursday evening where a 44-year-old Grantham man was threatening to jump from the same railway bridge. A British Transport Police (BTP) spokesperson said: ^BTP officers were called to the line close to Grantham rail station, Lincolnshire, on Wednesday, March 30 after a report that a person had been struck by a train. ^BTP and Lincolnshire Police officers attended the incident, which was reported to police at 4.13pm and a body was discovered. ^Enquiries have begun to establish the identity of the person and the circumstances leading up to their death. ^A file will be prepared for the coroner.^ Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Mookiemoo on April 08, 2011, 13:26:13 Ok, so I've been using east coast a few weeks now and to all intents and purposes, apart from the shiny silver trains being electric the interiors and shape of the train appear to be the same as the FGW HST's.....
Except they have new slidey door things - but I didnt think you could put them on HST's The old non shiny blue ones are diesel and have the same doors as FGW HST's so I guess they are the same. But what gives with the silver slidey doors.! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: northwesterntrains on April 08, 2011, 13:39:54 The term HST refers to Intercity 125, which are formed of 125mph capable mk3 stock. This is the type of trains FGW and EMT have. East Coast and CrossCountry also have some of this type.
The newer mk4 carriages are 140mph capable and have electrically operated doors. This forms the majority of East Coast's fleet. Rather confusingly this was called Intercity 225 opposed to Intercity 140. While the carriages are 140mph capable the East Coast Mainline has a 125mph speed limit. Here's some more information: mk3: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Mark_3 mk4: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Mark_4 Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on April 08, 2011, 13:43:38 East Coast operate two types of train. There's the diesel HST sets which are, to all intents and purposes identical to the ones you are used to on FGW, excepting interior design and being one carriage longer.
Then there's the electric sets which consist of a Class 91 electric loco (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Class_91), a Driving Van Trailer (DVT) and a rake of Mark 4 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Rail_Mark_4) coaches. Together these make a train sometimes referred to as InterCity 225 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/InterCity_225). The Mark 4 coaches are substantially different to the Mark 3's found on HST sets, with, as you discovered, powered doors. The carriage shape is also noticeably different, with tapered sides as it was originally intended that the stock would eventually be retrofitted with tilt enabled bogies allowing increased speeds on many parts of the East Coast route. There was also a plan to introduce a further build of InterCity 225s on the West Coast route, where tilting capability would have been even more use, but this was shelved. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on April 08, 2011, 14:07:35 Rather confusingly this was called Intercity 225 opposed to Intercity 140. 225 kph = 140 mph - cos we were supposed to be going metric at the time... ::) Paul Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Brucey on April 08, 2011, 14:08:26 And a Driving Van Trailer (DVT) is basically a power car mimic which controls the loco at the opposite end of the train. So unlike the FGW HSTs, Intercity 225s only have one loco.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: northwesterntrains on April 08, 2011, 14:56:18 There was also a plan to introduce a further build of InterCity 225s on the West Coast route, where tilting capability would have been even more use, but this was shelved. Wouldn't the tilting stock have been classed as mk5 stock if it had gone ahead? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: brompton rail on April 08, 2011, 15:04:52 I am afraid the colour on the outside is not much help in deciding if the train is an HST or an electric Mark 4 train. When you get on board the familiar layout of an HST will reveal that it is a diesel powered HST with a power car at both the north and south (First Class, where you are probably travelling) ends. The electric trains have a DVT which has a drivers cab, a luggage van (for your bike!) and the Train Managers Office. The loco (which can be as noisy as an HST power car!) is at the front.
Slam doors, with drop windows and outside handles, are of course HSTs, but sliding doors are only found on the electric Mark 4 sets. Some trains, mostly the electrics, still are painted dark blue GNER colours, some HSTs and electrics are in National Express White and with a Gray slash at the ends of the carriage, whilst some trains are in the newer East Coast silver colour. Confusing, you bet. Did you find East Coast on board service better than First GW? East Coasts free food service in First Class doesn't start until End of May. By the way the seats don't help once you are inside as all the HSTs and electric trains have had their original seats removed and 'Mallard' seats installed. Incidentally Cross Country's HSTs have Mallard seats too which makes them a damn site more comfortable than Voyagers (but then, so are coal trucks!) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Timmer on April 17, 2011, 21:20:29 http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/travel-information/travelapology/
Quote East Coast would like to sincerely apologise for the delays that occurred to our services during the afternoon and evening of 15 April as a result of Network Rail's signalling problems. Infrastructure failures on the East Coast Main Line have been all too frequent of late - causing massive delays and inconvenience for our customers, and Network Rail has to improve its performance measurably. Ouch! I wonder if a privately owned TOC would get away with posting something like this on their website?Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on April 17, 2011, 21:22:38 Heavy political undertones in that comment, methinks. ::)
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Timmer on April 18, 2011, 06:11:29 Heavy political undertones in that comment, methinks. ::) YepTitle: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Rhydgaled on April 18, 2011, 10:52:55 Interesting. One of nationalised parts of our rail network complaining about the other. I expect any other TOC would be equally cross if they had had frequent issues, but are quieter about it. Nationalisation would claw back a lot of the extra subsidy our railways have required, but perhaps this illustrates that, even nationalised, having the track separate from the train operator has issues. I doubt British Rail would have had such arguments in public, but am not old enough to know.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on April 18, 2011, 11:11:02 I doubt British Rail would have had such arguments in public, but am not old enough to know. Certainly not in public but the regional GM would have the Regional S&T Engineer on the carpet to find out what was going wrong. This would probably occur very shortly after the first few incidents perhaps even before the public became aware there even was a problem. The diference being if the failures were not the S&Ts engineer's fault (woe betide him if they were) then the GM would be banging the table at the BRB for money to put it right because it was literaly his railway. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on April 18, 2011, 18:19:59 Todays delays on the East Coast Mainline was due to ............................. go on guess ..................
??? ??? No not signaling .................... ??? No not Overhead problems ................... ??? or Power supply problems ............... ??? The delays were due to "Traction Unit Failure" One should be very careful about throwing stones in a glasshouse Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: brompton rail on April 18, 2011, 18:37:17 Although East Coast does say that delays are due to signalling problems between KX and Stevenage, and between Darlington and York!
Delay / cancellation re:14.00 KX to Aberdeen due to disruptive passengers. Other train alterations stem from this and the providing of a replacement HST to Aberdeen starting at Newcastle. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 18, 2011, 19:12:05 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lincolnshire-13121424):
Quote East Coast train evacuated after passenger stabbed Hundreds of people were evacuated from an East Coast train in Lincolnshire after a passenger was stabbed. British Transport Police (BTP) and Lincolnshire Police were called to Grantham Station just after 1430 BST to reports of a stabbing. A 37-year-old man suffered head injuries in the attack, which happened on the 1400 BST London to Aberdeen service, a BTP spokesman said. About 400 passengers were evacuated and transferred to another train. A 33-year-old man, from Glasgow, has been arrested on suspicion of wounding. East Coast trains said some services had been delayed or disrupted. Police said the victim was treated at the scene by paramedics and his injuries are not thought to be life-threatening. Can't blame Network Rail for that one. ::) :o Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: devon_metro on April 18, 2011, 22:12:39 Can you be arrested for "wounding"?
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on April 18, 2011, 22:24:35 Yes:
Wounding and Assault causing Grevious Bodily Harm (GBH) The Offences Against the Persons Act 1847 contains two offences of wounding or causing GBH under Section 18 and 20. Section 18 is by far the most serious as it carries a maximum sentence of life imprisonment, whereas the maximum for Section 20 is 5 years. The difference is that the prosecution must prove that you intended to cause serious bodily harm under Section 18, whereas they need only show that you acted recklessly under Section 20. Under both sections, an assault causing grievous bodily harm or wounding is defined as follows. To constitute a wound the whole skin must be broken. It must be more than a scratch, but one drop of blood would be sufficient. Grievous bodily harm must be ^really serious harm^, an obvious example of which would be a broken bone. There is no legal definition however, and it is a question of fact for the jury to decide. Arrest and Punishment Both offences under sections 18 and 20 are arrestable under Section 24 PACE and triable on indictment only. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Deltic on April 19, 2011, 09:56:58 Although East Coast does say that delays are due to signalling problems between KX and Stevenage There were definitely problems with the signalling here in FCC land last night. Down Slow out of action through Knebworth, with passengers being advised to travel to Stevenage and take a southbound train back to Knebworth. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Mookiemoo on May 09, 2011, 10:05:25 Major teething problems
............. Tea and coffee down first - no option for food - or even ordering paid for food without going to queue with standard Food comes down after stevenage but if you missed the coffee/tea then you have to wait...... Trolley freebies about the same as FGW - you can order free brekkie but again - only after stevenage Ideal - as I fed back to the customer manager,........ Freebie service for long distance pax - cust host go fetch from chef paid for items for 1 hour pax I like my bacon sarnie and I'l pay for it! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Mookiemoo on May 23, 2011, 12:42:49 Its absolutely crap for passengers south of peterborough.......
You still have to pay for the same stuff but now you have to go fetch yourself because they are too busy giving complimentary grub to 70 MINUTES plus passengers... If this were not my last week I would announce that they had liost a first class passenger Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on May 23, 2011, 12:44:13 I think they *are* trying to ditch their Peterborough contingent from 1st Class...
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: readytostart on May 23, 2011, 14:40:16 To be fair, Virgin passengers in First from MKC - EUS only get the tea and light nibbles and don't even have the option of paying for the hot food offering.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: bobm on May 27, 2011, 19:23:56 Not worth a new thread but they've just featured one of the down FGW Pullman Restaurants on The ONE Show. Suspect it will be on the BBC IPlayer shortly. It's about 15 mins from the start.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: IndustryInsider on May 28, 2011, 14:09:44 There's something amiss on the ECML today - anyone know what the problem is to rule out any trains for at least the rest of the day?
From National Rail Enquiries: Overhead wire problems are causing disruption between Grantham and Peterborough. Because of this, trains are currently unable to run between Grantham and Peterborough. This disruption is expected to continue for at least the rest of today. There is no current estimate for when a normal service will resume. There is no replacement road transport available at this time. Passengers are advised to use alternative routes where possible. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on May 28, 2011, 14:14:52 OHL needing replacement I suspect.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: brompton rail on May 28, 2011, 17:26:36 It seems a Mk4 train (i.e. Class 91 loco) pulled all of the wires down, over 4 tracks, north of Peterborough this morning and stopped the job. Coaches were disconnected from loco -which is always at north end of train - and taken by Thunderbird to Stevenage where a connection to Kings Cross was laid on. At least one HST from Doncaster to London (or maybe Peterborough) ran via Lincoln, and the 13,30 Kings Cross to Inverness (an HST) ran north that way.
Could take all weekend to re-wire, but from now until Monday pm it is not that busy with it being a Bank Holiday. Tickets valid by almost every other TOC - perhaps not FGW!. To Scotland with Virgin, to Yorkshire and North East with VWC, XC (only 1 train an hour instead of two, and diverted via Leicester with longer journeys!) or Trans Pennine Express via Manchester, plus EMT from St Pancras. Not a good time to be travelling I guess! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: bobm on May 28, 2011, 17:31:51 Just as well they lifted the engineering work on the WCML.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on May 28, 2011, 17:52:19 It seems a Mk4 train (i.e. Class 91 loco) pulled all of the wires down, over 4 tracks, north of Peterborough this morning and stopped the job. This is the big problem with the Mk3 Headspan OHLE one line get ripped down it drags the others with it. It was used in the 1980/90's because it was a cheaper method to electrify than the portal system used on the WCML; this is the main reason why the GWML West of Airport Junction will not be using headspan other than possibly a few exceptional locations, the favoured method now is cantilevers or portals.Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 28, 2011, 18:11:50 From the Northern Echo (http://www.thenorthernecho.co.uk/news/9054828.Major_delays_hit_East_Coast_Mainline/):
Quote Major delays hit East Coast Mainline Bank Holiday travellers have been hit by major delays on the East Coast Mainline due to damaged overhead wires. Approximately 200m of overhead equipment is damaged, affecting all four lines. No services are running between Grantham and Peterborough, and hundreds of passengers are believed to be stranded at Grantham Station. One passenger who boarded a train from Durham at 9.41am and arrived at Grantham at 1.05pm, said: "It is absolute chaos here, with 300 to 400 people stuck in the concourse of the station unable to get anyway. We are all being sent by taxi to Peterborough now. This must be costing an absolute fortune." A statement on the East Coast website says: "Overhead wire problems are causing disruption between Grantham and Peterborough. Because of this, trains are currently unable to run between Grantham and Peterborough. There is no current estimate for when a normal service will resume. There is no replacement road transport available at this time. Passengers are advised to use alternative routes where possible." A statement from operator Grand Central says: "Network Rail engineers are on site and are working to fix the problem as quickly as possible. Due to the extent of the damage, passengers are being advised not to travel to expect major disruption on the East Coast Main Line for the rest of the day, and to seek other routes for their journeys wherever possible." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: old original on May 28, 2011, 19:02:05 Not worth a new thread but they've just featured one of the down FGW Pullman Restaurants on The ONE Show. Suspect it will be on the BBC IPlayer shortly. It's about 15 mins from the start. Anti-media whinge...."east coast" gets named and shamed as they have done away with the dining cars, yet with the majority of the item heaping praise on the dining cars that are left I don't believe I heard the name "First Great Western" mentioned once. Praise where praise is due surely?? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 28, 2011, 19:46:39 From The Guardian (http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2011/may/28/east-coast-train-penalty-unafir):
Quote East Coast train's penalty is unfair A return train ticket gobbled up by a machine at the station led to a hefty extra charge In March I was travelling on East Coast trains between Leeds and London King's Cross. I had paid the fare of ^88.60 by telephone the previous evening, and picked up the tickets using the machine in London. I went up to Leeds in the morning, but when I returned a few hours later I put my return ticket into the ticket machine at the station and was surprised when it wasn't returned to me despite being valid for travel. All I was left with was the collection receipt. I had to run to get my train. I showed this to the ticket inspector and explained what had happened, but he didn't believe I'd paid and issued a penalty fare. I was told I wouldn't have to pay a fine if I could prove I'd paid. When I got home I sent a letter along with a copy of a bank statement highlighting a ^88.60 payment to National Express Newcastle plus a copy of my collection receipt. Despite this they have refused my appeal and Revenue Protection Support Services are now demanding I must pay them ^134.50 within 14 days "in order to avoid further debt recovery action being taken that will incur an additional administration fee of ^20.00". I purchased my tickets in good faith, I have no idea why my return ticket was retained by the machine. It didn't occur to me that this would be a problem on the train as I knew I had my collection receipt and booking reference. Could you get East Coast to see sense please? SC, Anerley Park, London *** Yours is one of a number of complaints that we have received recently about the government-owned East Coast, which now runs the rail franchise in place of GNER. We can't understand the problem the guard had with you. You can clearly prove that you had bought the ticket. The fact that you were travelling on the same day that you picked up the tickets confirms that you couldn't have already used the return. We asked East Coast for a response and it said: "It is the customer's responsibility to ensure that a valid ticket for travel is in their possession when boarding a train. This condition is clearly outlined in the National Rail Conditions of Carriage, which apply to all train operators' services. A booking reference or other receipt is not valid for travel in its own right, instead of the original travel ticket." It went on to say that it would "sympathetically consider an appeal from you should we receive one". This you are now doing and we will report the outcome. Ironically, if this had happened to someone with a fixed return ticket, who missed their train to retrieve their ticket from the machine, they'd have got a penalty fare for being on a later train than on the one on which they were booked. You just can't win. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on May 28, 2011, 20:12:02 Where to begin?
"National Express Newcastle" Who are they? "....East Coast, which now runs the rail franchise in place of GNER" No, in the place of National Express East Coast. "Ironically, if this had happened to someone with a fixed return ticket who missed their train to retrieve their ticket from the machine, they'd have got a penalty fare...." What's a fixed return ticket? And there are no Penalty Fares on East Coast. I know the grauniad is famous for its mistakes, but for an article written by someone offering consumer advice, it really would be worth checking a few facts before publishing. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 28, 2011, 20:17:22 I merely quote the articles, without passing any comment on the proficiency of the journalists ... ::)
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on May 28, 2011, 20:36:42 Indeed Chris. Well found by the way!
As for the substance of the complaint, I'm afraid the passenger's only real hope of a successful outcome is a goodwill gesture from East Coast writing off the debt. They should be fortunate that it appears East Coast are pursuing a civil debt rather than a prosecution under railway bye-laws. There is no way for a guard to know that the ticket hasn't been transferred to someone else and that's why they can't allow travel on a receipt or bank statement. I appreciate that the person concerned said that their ticket was retained by a barrier. It should've been a matter of moments to retrieve it. Unfortunately they made the wrong decision in deciding to run for their train rather than waiting the few moments to get the ticket back. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: readytostart on May 28, 2011, 21:39:54 Doesn't mention how they got through the barrier after their ticket was retained.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on May 28, 2011, 21:51:38 Interesting point. Must be almost unheard of for an entry barrier to retain a ticket and for the gates to open.
If it was a barrier fault, this person would've only had a half hour wait for the next train. Better that than being chinged for a new fare onboard. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Ollie on May 28, 2011, 23:08:31 Interesting point. Must be almost unheard of for an entry barrier to retain a ticket and for the gates to open. Indeed, barriers won't open unless the ticket is taken out.If it was a barrier fault, this person would've only had a half hour wait for the next train. Better that than being chinged for a new fare onboard. Makes me wonder if was a double shuffle. (Someone up behind him to get through gates, and maybe took his ticket)* *Disclaimer: just a theory obviously don't know this is the case Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: brompton rail on May 29, 2011, 07:13:28 There are at least two, and often more, attendants at Leeds barriers. The story doesn't hold water in my experience. Incidentally East Coast trains depart from platforms 6 or 8 which are adjacent to the barrier. So why did he have to run for the train? And yes they are half houy.
Good news is that the knitting is back up at Tarrington and East Coast will be running, with a few alterations no doubt due to rolling stock out of place (and one set minus a loco!) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on May 29, 2011, 17:49:32 Good news is that the knitting is back up at Tarrington and East Coast will be running, with a few alterations no doubt due to rolling stock out of place (and one set minus a loco!) Yes let's hope it stays up off to York Wednesday back Friday. will beusing Off Peaks so will have choice of trains. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on May 29, 2011, 20:41:41 Good news is that the knitting is back up at Tarrington and East Coast will be running, with a few alterations no doubt due to rolling stock out of place (and one set minus a loco!) Yes let's hope it stays up off to York Wednesday back Friday. will beusing Off Peaks so will have choice of trains. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: brompton rail on May 30, 2011, 18:38:08 Whoops! Tallington indeed! Sorry for sloppy typing.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on October 20, 2011, 16:37:02 From an East Coast press release (http://www.eastcoast.co.uk/about-us/press-release/2011/directly-operated-railways-chairman/):
Quote Directly Operated Railways Limited (DOR), today announced that the Chairman, Elaine Holt, would be leaving the Company at the end of December, 2011. The announcement coincides with the planned completion of Elaine Holt^s contract. DOR is the Company established by the Secretary of State for Transport in July 2009. It fulfils the Secretary of State^s requirements to secure the continued provision of passenger railway services should an existing franchise not be able to complete its full term. This was the case with National Express East Coast which had operated the East Coast franchise since December 2007. Its contract was subsequently terminated by the Secretary of State on 13 November 2009. Elaine Holt was appointed Chairman of DOR by the Secretary of State in July 2009 and has held the position since that time. Coincident with the creation of a new operator on the line, which took over the rail franchise on 13 November 2009, Elaine Holt was also appointed Chairman of East Coast Main Line Company Limited. The DfT has sought to extend Elaine Holt^s contract, although the two parties were unable to agree terms. Commenting on today^s announcement, Elaine Holt said: ^I shall be sorry to leave both DOR and East Coast. We^ve achieved a huge amount in the last two years and we^re just starting to see the benefits of the Company turnaround. The Company still has a number of challenges to overcome ^ but I^m absolutely convinced we made the right choices and have established a strong new foundation for our successes to be sustainable. The franchise extension until the end of 2013 will see this task largely completed ^ with a business in much better shape than when we started. ^I couldn^t have achieved this level of progress without the very strong support from the DOR Board, Karen Boswell (East Coast^s Managing Director) and the rest of the team at East Coast. ^m genuinely regretful of the fact that I won^t now be around to ^finish the job^ Elaine Holt is credited with driving and shaping the turnaround at East Coast. The introduction of a major new timetable and the launch of a new complimentary catering offer in First Class in May 2011, have both been strategically significant and delivered positive results. Passenger numbers have increased by 3 per cent in the last year (2010/11), and last month DOR posted an operating profit of ^183 million on turnover of more than ^645 million for the year ending 31 March 2011. It has subsequently returned ^177 million this year in service payments to the public purse ^ and East Coast is now one of the best financial performers in the rail industry. Following Elaine^s departure, Michael Holden will become Chairman of East Coast, and Doug Sutherland will become Non-Executive Chairman of Directly Operated Railways. Michael and Doug will undertake these roles on an interim basis until discussions with the Department for Transport on filling the positions permanently are concluded. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on October 20, 2011, 17:54:09 Don't be surprised if she pops up in the Anglian region then...
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on October 21, 2011, 09:58:57 "Passenger numbers have increased by 3 per cent in the last year (2010/11), and last month DOR posted an operating profit of ^183 million on turnover of more than ^645 million for the year ending 31 March 2011. It has subsequently returned ^177 million this year in service payments to the public purse ^ and East Coast is now one of the best financial performers in the rail industry."
If a government owned company can turn a loss making commercial franchise around like this, why not just let DOR take over the Greater Western franchise in 2013 with a simple remit to do the same? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on November 03, 2011, 09:32:56 Off to work on bids for National Express. Some hope of them winning anything in the near future....
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 03, 2011, 17:20:52 Off to work on bids for National Express. Is there a source for that? I've found a story with rumours of her next gig. From the PFAS News (http://www.penaltyfareappeal.co.uk/wordpress/?p=2241) blog: Quote There are several rumours floating around the industry with the top two being that she has been poached to take a senior role within ATOC or that FirstGroup^s new CEO, Tim O^Toole has said ^get her back at any cost^ and she will become a senior figure within FirstGroup. Of course these rumours are just that, rumours and unconfirmed. PFAS= Penalty Fare Appeal Support Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on November 03, 2011, 18:03:27 A tweet from Philip Haigh, if I remember correctly.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 03, 2011, 18:20:01 Thanks for that ChrisB.
@philatrail (http://twitter.com/#!/philatrail/status/131668407773970432) (Philip Haigh, Business Editor, RAIL magazine) tweeted: "Elaine Holt to work for National Express on bids." Interesting that the company which gave up on the East Coast franchise is now rumoured to be courting Ms Holt.... NXGW anyone? ;) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 11, 2011, 21:18:12 From The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/8949505/Rail-firm-boss-who-took-the-plane.html):
Quote A senior executive at state-owned rail firm publicly trumpeted the benefits of travelling by train - while clocking up ^1,400 in plane tickets for routes covered by his own franchise. Peter Williams, commercial director of East Coast, boasted of the advantages of rail journeys in a marketing campaign earlier this year. But figures showed that he took seven flights between Glasgow and London, even though the route is covered by his own network. The details emerged after a Freedom of Information request ^ which also revealed thousands of pounds spending by East Coast^s directors on hotels and restaurants. It is embarrassing for a company whose advertising, featuring impressionist Rory Bremner, highlights the benefits of travelling by rail and enjoying the scenery. In a press release earlier this year, East Coast claimed it was ^winning the battle^ for custom against the airlines. Mr Williams was quoted in the release saying: ^We are delighted that so many people are seeing the advantages of the train compared with the plane ^ including city centre to centre travel, the opportunity to work using Wi-Fi throughout the journey, and great value fares.^ But it has now emerged that he claimed for seven British Airways flights between London and Glasgow over a nine-month period last year, costing ^1,422.85. Ian Mearns, the Labour MP for Gateshead and member of the all-party parliamentary Rail in the North group, criticised the move. He said: ^The very least I would expect is that senior managers would use their own service. It^s free to them, they could go first class if they wanted to. It is important they can see the same service passengers get. ^I know that East Coast has been suffering from problems in punctuality and performance and that some of this is not their fault, when you look at cable thefts for example, but I would have much more confidence in the management to turn this around if they were not spending money like this. ^What does it say to the travelling public if train line directors are travelling with a rival rather than use their own service?^ A spokesman for East Coast said: ^The very occasional flights for Peter Williams were as a result of business needs requiring him to be in London late at the end of the week and him living in Scotland. As demonstrated by the frequency of such journeys, this is a very infrequent event.^ Expenses claims totalling ^27,845.71 were made by East Coast^s board of 12 directors over 22 months up to August this year, including ^16,045.06 on food, drink and entertainment. Among the spending was a ^680.01 bill incurred by managing director Karen Boswell for two stays at London^s five-star Renaissance Chancery Court hotel. Ms Boswell also spent nearly ^1,000 on three meals in the capital ^ two at the Michelin-starred L^Atelier de Joel and one at Smiths of Smithfield. Other staff spent thousands on several visits to an Italian restaurant in York. Directors also spent ^2,150.35 on taxis while top-ups for Oyster cards ^ used on public transport in London ^ came to just ^30. A spokesman for the franchise said: "We consider the value of expenses incurred by the East Coast directors to be comparatively low - and that this demonstrates our commitment to protect the public purse." Emma Boon, campaign manager at pressure group the Taxpayers' Alliance, called for the franchise to put back into private ownership. She said spending the sums in "bars and restaurants is a bad deal for taxpayers". The East Coast main line reverted to state control in 2009 after former operator National Express backed out of a contract compelling it to pay ^1.4 billion to run the franchise. But figures earlier this year showed that since then punctuality had declined alarmingly. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Btline on December 11, 2011, 23:24:59 Don't blame him not wanting to travel from Glasgow to London via the ECML! :P
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on December 11, 2011, 23:42:21 Indeed.
Although, whilst he would probably have to pay for the privilege of travelling with Virgin on the WCML, at least he would've got a better 1st Class service on a Virgin Pendolino versus an East Coast 91+MkIV. That said, ^200 per trip on British Airways compares quite favourably with Virgin's 1st Anytime fare London<->Glasgow. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on December 12, 2011, 08:40:34 When I took a job that covered an area from Swindon to Penzance, I moved to Wiltshire. Now - East Coast's HQ is in York, I believe, and I would have hoped that employees and directors based there would have moved to be within a reasonable community distance ... with it being their choice of what is "reasonable" and them travelling to and from York at their own expense to get to and from work. I'll give rail staff members the extra of being able to commute on the railway if it's part of their contract of employment - a sensible benefit in kind.
If a member of the East Coast team feels that somewhere near Glasgow is a suitable place to live for his job, that's fine by me. Wherever he has business meetings, it's reasonable for him to have his travel between there and his office paid for / provided - if it's reasonable in all the circumstances for him to use his own rail company, or another, for these journeys then great. If not, then another reasonable alternative is sensible. But, surely, the payment for alternative means for an East Coast excutive to travel to his distant home should be his own responsibility, and not that of the shareholders of East Cost who are currently you and me. If that executive is so good that it's worth paying him enough for his lifestyle, sure - but then the cost of his airline tickets should come from that pay if he's going to travel that way rather than on free rail passes via York. Views expressed here are purely a personal opinion ... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: inspector_blakey on December 12, 2011, 15:24:53 I would agree - on the face of it I don't think it's really on for someone to be claiming expenses for travel to and from their workplace (and how many companies would permit this anyway? Almost none I suspect.)
Evidently on the occasions in question he was detained late in meetings in London, but frankly I'd have thought that this comes with the territory for a senior executive position. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 17, 2013, 16:19:04 From The Telegraph (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/road-and-rail-transport/9875652/Fat-Cat-rail-bosses-six-figure-salaries-revealed-by-FOI-requests.html):
Quote 'Fat Cat' rail bosses' six-figure salaries revealed by FOI requests Train company chiefs have been accused of ^fat cat^ behaviour after it was revealed they enjoy six figure salaries as passengers endure misery and ticket price hikes. Even on the East Coast line, where services are being run in the public sector, as many as eight directors are on salaries of above ^100,000 a year, it has been revealed. The East Coast pay levels were obtained following a request under the Freedom of Information (FOI) Act. All the other train operating companies were sent FOI requests asking how many of their directors were on six-figure salaries. But all said they were not obliged to reply as the act did not apply to them as they were private companies. In addition, only one company, CrossCountry, was prepared to offer any pay-level details on a non-FOI request basis. The East Coast information supplied showed that one director ^ almost certainly managing director Karen Boswell ^ was on a salary of between ^161,000 and ^180,000. Two other East Coast directors' salaries came within the ^121,000 to ^140,000 band, while five other directors were on between ^100,000 and ^120,000 a year. Matthew Sinclair, Chief Executive of the TaxPayers' Alliance, said: "It's astonishing that even now rail bosses continue to rake in such huge salaries funded by taxpayers. Given that commuters are consistently forced to endure delays and misery on the rail network, it's galling that the fat cats in charge are in line for bonuses for performance. With budgets tight the focus should be on improving infrastructure, not executive pay packets." East Coast's parent company is Directly Operated Railways (DOR), which was set up in 2009 by the then transport secretary to manage any train company operations which return, temporarily, to the public sector. DOR took over East Coast in November 2009 when National Express pulled out of the franchise. Information obtained from DOR via the Department for Transport showed DOR chief executive Michael Holden's salary for the year ending March 2012 was ^156,100. Information from CrossCountry covered the year 2011. It showed the highest paid director ^ almost certainly managing director Andy Cooper ^ was on ^222,000 including pension contributions. The company said it had 10 registered directors and their aggregate pay, including benefits, was ^795,000. Pay level details are also available for rail infrastructure company Network Rail (NR), which is currently striving to meet punctuality targets on long-haul routes. In the last few days rail passengers have endured some miserable travelling conditions, with an overhead power line problem in Hertfordshire leading to severe delays on busy commuter routes. NR's chief executive Sir David Higgins was on an annual basic salary of ^560,000 as of March 31 2012, while finance director Patrick Butcher was on ^382,000. NR's network operations chief Robin Gisby was on ^360,000, as was infrastructure director Simon Kirby. In addition to their salaries, the NR chiefs stand to be paid performance-related bonuses running into hundreds of thousands of pounds. Transport for London's (TfL) 2011/12 annual report showed that 30 of the bosses of the cross-London ^14.8 billion Crossrail project were on salaries of more than ^100,000. These included chief executive Andrew Wolstenholme, who was on ^380,000 when he started his present job in September 2011. Crossrail is a wholly-owned subsidiary of TfL. The TfL report also reveals that in 2011/12, a total of 223 TfL staff were on salaries of more than ^100,000. These included London Mayor Boris Johnson's current aviation adviser Daniel Moylan who is a former TfL deputy chairman, a position that gave him a salary of ^112,599 in 2011/12. Compared with train company boss pay levels, information is much more easily obtained for the bosses of rail-operating transport companies which are stock market-quoted. These also indicate generous salary-and-bonus regimes as well as handsome rail-business profits within an industry which still receives generous subsidies from the Government. Transport company FirstGroup runs five UK rail companies ^ First Capital Connect, Great Western, Hull Trains, TransPennine Express and ScotRail. In the year ending March 2012, FirstGroup made an operating profit of ^110.5 million on its UK rail business, with its revenue being ^2.5 billion. Chief executive Tim O'Toole's basic salary for 2012 was ^846,000, plus a ^134,000 pension allowance and ^75,000 for what was described as benefits in kind. FirstGroup's commercial director Sidney Barrie, who resigned last March, was on a salary of ^349,000, while finance director Jeff Carr, who resigned in November 2011, had been on ^280,000. Another giant transport company, National Express, runs the London to Tilbury and Southend rail line c2c and also operated, until last February, the East Anglia franchise. For the year 2011, National Express's revenue from its UK rail operations was ^688.3 million, while operating profit was ^43.4 million. The company's chief executive Dean Finch is on an annual salary of ^550,000, and it was announced in August 2012 that he had been awarded an extra performance-based bonus involving thousands of free shares. National Express group finance director Jez Maiden is on ^420,000 a year, with chairman John Devaney, who is about to stand down, on ^225,000. Another rail industry parent company is the Go-Ahead Group which, with French company Keolis, owns rail operator Govia which runs the London Midland, Southern, Southeastern and Gatwick Express train companies. London Midland has been plagued with staff shortage problems in recent months and just before Christmas the Government announced the company would be offering a ^7 million compensation package including free travel days for season ticket holders. In the 12 months ending June 2012, Go-Ahead's rail operation revenue was ^1.73 billion and its operating profit was ^40 million. Group chief executive David Brown was on a salary of ^510,000, with finance director Keith Down on ^326,000. Manuel Cortes, leader of the TSSA rail union, said: "One of the reasons we have the highest rail fares in Europe is because we have created an army of Fat Controllers since John Major sold off British Rail 20 years ago. Then we had one Fat Controller on a modest salary. Now we have dozens, some of whom are paid over ^1 million a year for running regional monopolies at the expense of both the passenger and the taxpayer. These people are laughing all the way to the bank while the rest of us fund their private gravy train." Bob Crow, general secretary of transport union the RMT, said: "It's scandalous that the only train operator disclosing top bosses' salaries is the publicly-owned East Coast, while the private train companies hide behind a veil of secrecy as they bleed passengers dry. You can bet your boots that the reason they want to lurk in the shadows and hide behind the cloak of commercial confidentiality is because they are milking it and they know there would be a public outcry. Compare that to the cleaners on Arriva Trains Wales on basic minimum wage currently balloting for action for a fair deal. That's the shocking reality of the haves and have-nots on Britain's railways." Anthony Smith, chief executive of rail customer watchdog Passenger Focus, said: "Our research shows that what is important to passengers is being able to rely on their service to get them in on time, and that their ticket is good value for money. Our national passenger survey clearly shows less than half of passengers are satisfied with the value for money of their train tickets." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on February 20, 2013, 11:49:52 There seems to be major disruption on the ECML at St Neots today 20th with the O/H down. All 4 lines blocked.
Lets hope the GWML is more robustly wired! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: IndustryInsider on February 20, 2013, 11:58:03 And when the wires do come down, a more robust service can be provided using IEP Bi-Mode, HSTs and Electric IEP's with their auxiliary diesel engine.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Jason on February 20, 2013, 12:03:40 I read about it here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21516102 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-21516102) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: caliwag on February 20, 2013, 12:35:41 Ha...don't bank on it. The last train out of KGX to LDS is scheduled for a 125. It was cancelled and many were forced to spend the night on the station, only to be confronted with more problems this morning. Very poor do. That last train will not be busy, you'd think hotel accommodation would be the least they could do.
I was lucky, escaped on the 2100...could even have been that that pulled down all the wires!! ::) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Western Enterprise on February 20, 2013, 15:02:46 RMT quoted as saying:
"There's a massive backlog of maintenance on the overhead cabling, massive shortage of staff because of 20% cuts in the maintenance capacity. We've got ageing overhead cable stock at a time when there's not enough staff to do the routine maintenance." Any truth in this? Perhaps short cuts and cost cutting somewhere along the line. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on February 20, 2013, 19:16:43 There seems to be major disruption on the ECML at St Neots today 20th with the O/H down. All 4 lines blocked. All new electrification will be MIR (mechanically independently registered) ....... what does this mean??? Well all the electrification west of Stockley on the GWML will not use headspan, headspan construction is where the OLE across multiple tracks is supported by wires across track between to masts. MIR uses portals (like the WCML) or structures with cantilevers. The advantage is any detriment is constrained to a single line where as with headspan the rip down tends to damage the span wires, disadvantage MIR is more expensive to install because of the greater number of foundations.Lets hope the GWML is more robustly wired! Both of the recent rip downs have been headspan areas also in an area with low road over bridges (wire highs change) and OLE overlaps (where one wire run joins another or at crossovers, also allows for electrical sectioning) all of these have risks when they are all in the same location. RMT quoted as saying: "There's a massive backlog of maintenance on the overhead cabling, massive shortage of staff because of 20% cuts in the maintenance capacity. We've got ageing overhead cable stock at a time when there's not enough staff to do the routine maintenance." Any truth in this? Perhaps short cuts and cost cutting somewhere along the line. There is a shortage of OLE staff in the construction suppliers NR are working in partnership with contractors to set a training school. Maintenance have difficult balancing act do they have lots of staff standing by to deal with incidents or just enough to do the day to day stuff. The biggest pressure is actually access time to carry out maintenance work, passengers want later running trains during the week and at weekends and don't like buses on Sundays. Track workers need a possessions to do there work which takes time to set up because of the Rules involved (most of which are there for good reasons), OLE workers need the possession and an isolation. An isolation of High Voltage equipment involves applying earths at quite a number of places in an isolated section these can only be applied and removed by trained staff, then safety documents need to be issued before work starts and cancelled at the end. Why such a complex process 25,000Volts just don't hurt if you touch it ..................... it fries you crispy Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Jason on March 11, 2013, 13:59:02 More unspecified overhead problems just south of St. Neots today:
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/saa28912dddd450182c628498acfacbd/details.html (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/service_disruptions/saa28912dddd450182c628498acfacbd/details.html) I lost about 20 minutes heading into Kings X on an early service from Leeds which was diverted onto the relief line. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: IndustryInsider on March 11, 2013, 14:22:19 All new electrification will be MIR (mechanically independently registered) ....... what does this mean??? Well all the electrification west of Stockley on the GWML will not use headspan, headspan construction is where the OLE across multiple tracks is supported by wires across track between to masts. MIR uses portals (like the WCML) or structures with cantilevers. The advantage is any detriment is constrained to a single line where as with headspan the rip down tends to damage the span wires, disadvantage MIR is more expensive to install because of the greater number of foundations. Another disadvantage is that the whole MIR thing looks more obtrusive that headspan wiring. I wonder whether they will still end up using headspan for short sections at sensitive locations, i.e. Maidenhead Bridge, Bath Spa, to reduce the impact on the environment? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on March 11, 2013, 18:10:15 All new electrification will be MIR (mechanically independently registered) ....... what does this mean??? Well all the electrification west of Stockley on the GWML will not use headspan, headspan construction is where the OLE across multiple tracks is supported by wires across track between to masts. MIR uses portals (like the WCML) or structures with cantilevers. The advantage is any detriment is constrained to a single line where as with headspan the rip down tends to damage the span wires, disadvantage MIR is more expensive to install because of the greater number of foundations. Another disadvantage is that the whole MIR thing looks more obtrusive that headspan wiring. I wonder whether they will still end up using headspan for short sections at sensitive locations, i.e. Maidenhead Bridge, Bath Spa, to reduce the impact on the environment? I doubt it, certainly not on high speed sections Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: IndustryInsider on March 11, 2013, 18:28:00 Yes, I suppose Maidenhead would be asking for trouble, but Bath Spa and its surrounding area are only good for 75mph maximum, so perhaps that would be OK?
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on March 11, 2013, 18:54:32 OHLE equipment is likely to send some Bath Residents up in arms... Look at Sydney Gardens for example. Although I completely agree with the reasoning behind the installation of the fencing. Not to mention there are several listed buildings on or about the route through Bath Spa.
AIUI isn't the bridge across the one way roundabout type thing on the A36 immediately west of the station also a Listed Structure? See this for an explanation of what I mean: http://goo.gl/maps/g6jYH (http://goo.gl/maps/g6jYH) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on March 11, 2013, 20:16:36 Actually I think you will find that headspans will be more intrusive than well design structures with cantilevers , headspans structures are much higher which results in the steel masts being a larger cross section, cantilevers mounted on a round mast (who know with GWR finial on top well if I was the project engineer they would have ;D ) will be far less intrusive.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on March 12, 2013, 08:09:45 Agree with Electric train that MIR is less intrusive than headspan. Have look at Warncliffe viaduct with it's short round posts. Presumably similar to those that will be used on Maidenhead
Bridge. Like the idea of the GW finial. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: paul7575 on March 12, 2013, 09:58:44 Isn't electrification deemed to come under the railway's permitted development rights? Modern Railways recently raised this point, that although the ECML wired a few grade 1 structures and buildings successfully, the people of Bath might not be so forgiving.
That seems quite wrong to me - they should be told that it is happening, and that whatever precedents exist for the style of equipment used on a grade 1 building or structure will be repeated - and that's all. Paul Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on March 12, 2013, 16:54:31 The problem with Sidney Gardens is that the cutting the railway runs in. is the wrong height and the wires will be accessible above the wall. Because the railway would be heavily castigated if some innocent member of the public managed to make contact with the wire and electrocuted themselves. Thus the need for fences on the wall.
Of course if the Bath Society were to accept responsibility for anyone electrocuting themelves then the fences wouldn't be needed. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: bobm on March 12, 2013, 19:31:33 Ah that clears up a mystery. I had read that the fences were put up to stop trespassers on the railway - which I took to mean those intent on getting on the track whether for vandalism or suicide. I therefore wondered why the same case had not been made for Dawlish seawall section. However I hadn't appreciated the cutting and the level of the wires which makes the case for the fencing much clearer.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Electric train on March 13, 2013, 20:15:28 Isn't electrification deemed to come under the railway's permitted development rights? Modern Railways recently raised this point, that although the ECML wired a few grade 1 structures and buildings successfully, the people of Bath might not be so forgiving. That seems quite wrong to me - they should be told that it is happening, and that whatever precedents exist for the style of equipment used on a grade 1 building or structure will be repeated - and that's all. Paul At the time the ECML was electrified BR being a Nationalised Industry had quite a few Crown exemptions NR does not enjoy this status There are many things NR can do under permitted development rights, it is however cautious in using them where they believe what they want to build / install would be contentious without first consulting with the Local Planning Authority it is done this way because there are time when planning permission is needed therefore NR doesn't want to upset the LPA also NR is bad publicity averse ;D NR also consults with English Heritage etc. for the same reasons it consults with the LPA. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on March 15, 2013, 16:16:26 Ms Holt has moved on again. She is now working as UK Franchise Director at RATP Dev (http://www.ratpdev.com/index.php).
http://www.linkedin.com/pub/elaine-holt/1b/3a0/642 Looks like another French company may be attempting to enter the UK rail market.... ...and I wonder what this means for National Express? Will they be re-bidding for Greater Western in a couple of years time? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2013, 20:25:10 Looks like another French company may be attempting to enter the UK rail market.... Ici d^, comme vous pouvez le voir dans ce page (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manchester_Metrolink) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on March 15, 2013, 20:48:26 Ah merde. J'aurais d^ dire ferroviaire lourd. :P ;) ;D
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2013, 22:35:47 D'accord, mon ami.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: bobm on March 15, 2013, 22:41:05 Welsh language posts yesterday. Now French. Where next? ;D
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: TonyK on March 15, 2013, 23:14:00 Welsh language posts yesterday. Now French. Where next? ;D Ich wei^ nicht, mein Freund. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: swrural on March 16, 2013, 14:03:27 Ik weet het ook niet, het spijt mij.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 16, 2013, 23:37:28 Du ^r allt mycket dumt. ::)
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on March 16, 2013, 23:55:08 Como Forrest Gump dir^a: "Est^pido es como est^pido hace".
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on March 31, 2013, 22:04:04 On a slightly less frivolous note ::) - from Modern Railways (http://www.modern-railways.com/view_news.asp?ID=5844):
Quote Elaine Holt joins RATP Dev RATP Dev aims to pre-qualify for Crossrail operator concession RATP Dev has confirmed that Elaine Holt has been appointed UK Rail Franchise Director and will lead its work to pre-qualify for London^s Crossrail operator concession. Elaine Holt started her career at British Airways in 1987. She worked in a variety of senior commercial and operational roles at First Group for ten years, culminating as Managing Director of First Capital Connect. In 2009 she was appointed CEO of Directly Operated Railways, and Chairman of East Coast, and most recently led National Express^s bid for the Great Western rail franchise. RATP Dev is a subsidiary of RATP Group, established in 2002 to develop its operating and maintenance activities in France and internationally, outside the historic network operated by RATP in the greater Paris region. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: lordgoata on November 07, 2013, 12:26:29 I saw this listed today, thought some might be interested given the interest in the recent FGW CH5 series.
All Aboard East Coast Trains, Season 1 - Sky1 12 November 2013 at 8:00pm A documentary about the government-owned railway franchise running between London and Edinburgh with several branches Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 09, 2013, 16:47:49 From the ChronicleLive (Newcastle) (http://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/north-east-news/newcastle-east-coast-trains-staff-6287719?):
Quote Newcastle East Coast trains staff set to star in documentary A new ten-part Sky TV documentary will explore life working for traing operator East Coast (http://i2.chroniclelive.co.uk/incoming/article6288123.ece/ALTERNATES/s615/east-coast-6288123.jpg) East Coast staff, from left, Claire Manning, Mark Mclean, Karen Guthrie, Darren ^Daz^ Harrison and Louise Rutherford Rail staff based at Newcastle Central Station are set to star in a new reality programme to show what life is like on the other side of the tracks. Five workers from Tyneside are the faces of a ten-part documentary called All Aboard: East Coast Trains which starts on Tuesday. The crew have been followed around by cameramen for the access-all-areas programme, which will show how staff keep the busy rail route from London to Edinburgh operational. The show will also explore the home lives of some of the staff. Chef Mark Mclean, from North Tyneside^s Forest Hall, introduces the crew to his wife Sam and daughter Jessica as part of the show. Station information controller Darren Harrison, from Wallsend, known as Daz to his colleagues, and train guard Claire Manning, from North Shields talk about the challenges of their work. Sky also follow Karen Guthrie (nee Kerrison) as the Hebburn customer service assistant celebrates her hen night in Leeds and station manager Louise Rutherford, also from Hebburn, also tells viewers how she keeps everyone in line. Darren said: ^The first couple of times I was in front of the camera I found myself shaking but Sky really put us at ease. I ended up enjoying every moment.^ Karen added: ^We just got used to the cameras being there. They followed me on my hen night. I was trying to be on my best behaviour but my friends let my secrets out. We^ve all really enjoyed it and can^t wait for the show to be out.^ East Coast customer service director Peter Williams, said: ^The new TV series will take viewers on an exciting journey with East Coast, to meet some of the remarkable people who serve our customers and keep our trains moving each day. Many people perhaps don^t realise the scale of the operation which goes on 24 hours a day, seven days a week, to make sure our trains and stations are ready for our customers. Over 19 million people travel with East Coast every year. Viewers watching this groundbreaking series will get to know some of our unsung heroes at East Coast ^ and we can look forward to heart-warming moments too. It really will be must-see viewing.^ Chris Wilson, commissioning editor for factual at Sky, said: ^It^s been a pleasure to work so closely with East Coast, and we^re delighted with the series ^ a fascinating, moving and heart-warming glimpse into the lives of the men and women who work both front of house and behind the scenes on one of Britain^s biggest transport networks.^ Interestingly, as with Jody Edwards of First Great Western in the recent Channel 5 series, the East Coast Trains programmes will also apparently feature a blonde female train manager. Those television people clearly know what will appeal to their viewers. :-X Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: trainer on November 09, 2013, 21:54:53 Those television people clearly know what will appeal to their viewers. Not this one - I still refuse to subscribe. This is one series I will miss. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on November 11, 2013, 14:49:41 Ditto. Won't give money to the Murdoch empire
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on November 11, 2013, 14:50:45 sure it will be repeated endlessly on dave in a years time
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Network SouthEast on November 11, 2013, 15:18:50 ...Sky own Pick TV so it will probably be repeated on there rather than Dave.
If you do have Sky, then you can download the first episode already on Sky Go and Sky On-Demand. I have, and have to say this is another light hearted documentary, much like the Channel 5 FGW programme. Some continuity errors, but nothing as bad as footage of trains moving being reversed. A good watch. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: JayMac on November 15, 2013, 23:10:58 Not sure if it's an official upload, but Episode 1 of 'All Aboard: East Coast Trains' has made it to youtube. Handy for those of us without a Sky subscription.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f22ibyGifns Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: trainer on November 16, 2013, 11:37:55 Thanks for the tip-off BNM :) I wonder how long it will remain before someone spots it and pulls it?
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: stebbo on November 28, 2013, 14:06:35 It's been pulled.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on November 28, 2013, 14:12:05 How weird - reviews were good & audience impressive
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: bobm on November 28, 2013, 17:17:40 How weird - reviews were good & audience impressive I think stebbo was referring to its removal from youtube rather than being taken off Sky1 & Sky2 Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: stebbo on November 29, 2013, 10:38:57 Correct - it's been pulled from You Tube.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on January 17, 2014, 08:32:34 Three companies shortlisted for East Coast franchise:
Quote The three are East Coast Trains, run by First Group; Keolis/Eurostar East Coast, run by Keolis (UK) and Eurostar International; and Inter City Railways, run by Stagecoach Transport Holdings and Virgin Holdings. according to http://www.insidermedia.com/insider/national/106483-three-shortlisted-east-coast-franchise? Quote The government said it hoped the bidders would demonstrate how they would capitalise on the significant public investment along the route, including ^240m in infrastructure projects over the next five years. Rail minister Stephen Hammond said: "We have embarked on one of the biggest programmes of rail investment ever, with over ^35bn being spent to enhance and run our rail network over the next five years. "But for our railways to continue to grow we need strong private sector partners who can invest and innovate in ways that deliver a world class service." An invitation to tender for the franchise will be issued in February and potential operators are expected to have at least three months to develop their bids. The franchise is due to start in February 2015 and is expected to run for a maximum of 11 years. An interesting thing to watch as the great(er) Western franchise will need to be planned from later in 2015 ... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 17, 2014, 23:20:48 From Stock Market Wire (http://www.stockmarketwire.com/article/4740883/FirstGroup-delighted-with-East-Coast-shortlisting.html):
Quote FirstGroup delighted with East Coast shortlisting FirstGroup is 'delighted' to be shortlisted for the InterCity East Coast franchise competition by the Department for Transport. FirstGroup's managing director, UK Rail, Vernon Barker said: "We have extensive experience of intercity services and have a strong track record in delivering passenger growth as well as capacity and infrastructure upgrades on the long distance franchises we run - First Great Western, First ScotRail and First TransPennine Express. "We look forward to reviewing the contract details and submitting an innovative, compelling, and value for money bid which meets the needs of taxpayers as well as customers and businesses along the East Coast route. ""We are delighted to have been shortlisted for the InterCity East Coast franchise competition." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: anthony215 on January 18, 2014, 00:00:04 Seems National Express didnt bother to even bid for this contract.
Anyway I am a little surprised Arriva didnt get shortlisted although I think we will see a rematch between First and Virgin/Stagecoach. Keolis/Eurostar I think could spring a surprise which I do hope as it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 18, 2014, 00:06:27 ... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so? :-\ Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on January 18, 2014, 06:35:07 ... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so? :-\ Eurostar are already a major Intercity operator, mind - as I recall the run the major services on the line from London St Pancras (next door to East Coast' London terminal at King's Cross) to Brussels and Paris. Perhaps we would see international services from Scotland to France ... Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ellendune on January 18, 2014, 08:22:50 ... it would be nice to see someone other than the usual big players win a major intercity franchise Ah, but would they have the necessary experience / credibility to do so? :-\ Eurostar are already a major Intercity operator, mind - as I recall the run the major services on the line from London St Pancras (next door to East Coast' London terminal at King's Cross) to Brussels and Paris. Perhaps we would see international services from Scotland to France ... Who knows even International services from Scotland to England? Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on January 19, 2014, 15:43:12 Is it just me when I play devils advocate here and say the Government just either: A) Do not listen, B) Do not learn or C) Both A and B.
It seems the Government have been hellbent on getting this route back into private hands. Yet it has been making money and offers in my opinion a better service than a few privatised InterCity Operators. Look at CrossCountry. Yes we all know I'm not a fan. But look at the First Class offering on a Peak Newcastle to London train vs a Peak Newcastle to Bristol Temple Meads train. East Coast offers complimentary cooked fresh breakfast and access to First Class Lounges (Big deal some may think). CrossCountry a microwaved Bacon Bap. Yes FGW is no better with the Microwave Bacon Roll which although is complimentary in First Class on CrossCountry is chargeable on FGW services. Yet FGW do have Pullman and Travelling Chefs. Yes again chargeable food but much better than XC offering on a long journey even with the additional expense. I think the Government are setting themselves up for another fall. They should just leave it alone because in my opinion East Coast actually works well enough in Public Hands. It will be interesting to see what happens to the level of service come re-privatisation. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I shan't hold my breath. The phrase if it's not broken don't fix it come to mind. Mind you. The tories seem to have an obsession with privatisation yet don't seem to learn. The recent privatisation of Royal Mail another setup for a large fall when you look into the technicalities and previous privatised services gone wrong... ::) Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Rhydgaled on January 19, 2014, 23:45:26 Is it just me when I play devils advocate here and say the Government just either: A) Do not listen, B) Do not learn or C) Both A and B. I agree, the government seem to have an obsession with privatisation. Personally, I think privatisation is stupid. Is something is loss making, contracting it out to a private company is going to increase cost to the taxpayer as you have to pay their profit margin too. On the other hand, if something is making a profit that is useful revenue for the treasary to use to minimise the spending cuts. Admittedly there is something to be said for competition, but that doesn't work in the rail industry. In theroy you could have effective competition if you replaced all services with open-access operators, but the whole network could collapse almost overnight if the operator doesn't make enough money (see WSMR (Wrexham and Shropshire)). However rolling stock is not going to work in private hands no matter what. Unless supply of rolling stock far outstrips demand, the leasing companies (ROSCOs) might as well have a monopoly. Even if one ROSCO is cheaper, the more expensive one will still be able sell the leases to their rolling stock since, once the cheap stock is snapped up, the operators have no choice but to go to the more expensive one, thus there is no incentive for ROSCOs to reduce prices.It seems the Government have been hellbent on getting this route back into private hands. Yet it has been making money and offers in my opinion a better service than a few privatised InterCity Operators. Look at CrossCountry. Yes we all know I'm not a fan. But look at the First Class offering on a Peak Newcastle to London train vs a Peak Newcastle to Bristol Temple Meads train. East Coast offers complimentary cooked fresh breakfast and access to First Class Lounges (Big deal some may think). CrossCountry a microwaved Bacon Bap. Yes FGW is no better with the Microwave Bacon Roll which although is complimentary in First Class on CrossCountry is chargeable on FGW services. Yet FGW do have Pullman and Travelling Chefs. Yes again chargeable food but much better than XC offering on a long journey even with the additional expense. I think the Government are setting themselves up for another fall. They should just leave it alone because in my opinion East Coast actually works well enough in Public Hands. It will be interesting to see what happens to the level of service come re-privatisation. I hope to be pleasantly surprised but I shan't hold my breath. The phrase if it's not broken don't fix it come to mind. Mind you. The tories seem to have an obsession with privatisation yet don't seem to learn. The recent privatisation of Royal Mail another setup for a large fall when you look into the technicalities and previous privatised services gone wrong... ::) As for East Coast, it will not be making money (or much of it) much longer whether it is in public or private hands. This because the 'we do not learn' government has mandated the use of new trains ordered under a PFI deal (the costs of those have crippled hospital trusts apparently, yet still the government did it with IEP). According to Modern Railways, the increase in rolling stock costs compared to the current fleet will come close to the current profit margin. Also, if I understood Modern Railways correctly, the current state-run East Coast company will actually be sold to the winning bidder. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: trainer on January 20, 2014, 16:42:31 As has been noted before, the railways are very much operated by government-owned companies to a large extent. However, it's the German, Dutch and French governments through their own railway companies.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on January 20, 2014, 17:03:51 Thing with Railway Privatisation is it doesn't work on the competition element it's supposed to offer. Many rail companies have a complete monopoly on the routes they serve. Take Frome - Bath Spa. All direct trains operated by First Great Western. A very select few trains from Westbury (3 or 4) to Bath Spa operated by South West Trains. Yet the fares for both trains are exactly the same.
South West Trains have the option of First Class from Westbury - Bath Spa. The fare is set by FGW. FGW also run a Trowbridge - Bath Spa service with First Class at 19:02 on weekdays. Same price as South West Trains and the possibility of a free coffee and biscuits if the buffet is open. But the point comes back to the incentive to compete with other operators. The only competition would be with the bus service. Which is owned by FirstGroup. The same parent company of First Great Western. So what incentive would there be for competition. Well on purely rail front, there is none as no other operator serves Frome Station. The bus privatisation model however is a completely different story. in Frome we have both First Avon & Somerset Bus and Faresaver buses. Both operators extremely competitive against each others' services and fares regularly reflect this. For example. Students who have a valid student ID can travel on the Faresaver services for a Child Fare. Ladyfriend Trout is (or was before graduating) studying a Masters Degree and had a Student Card. Despite being 26 she still travels on a Child Fare on Faresaver. FirstBus would charge Ladyfriend Trout an Adult Fare at nearly double the cost. So which bus will Ladyfriend Trout use? Then ladyfriend trout accompanies thetrout to the Royal United Hospital for an appointment. Ladyfriend trout decides to use the FirstBus despite no student discounts... :-X Why? Because Ladyfriend Trout will buy a First Day SouthWest for ^7.00 (IIRC) and use it on the number 14 from the Bus Station in Bath to the RUH. However could such competition be applied to the railways?? I think it would be a total none starter myself. That being said, operating the Rail Network in a similar way to the London Bus Network could work very well. Commercial Operators running the services under contract with the DfT. DfT handles all services under a single brand and take all the fares/revenue. Contracts with the commercial operators to run the services on behalf of the DfT can be tendered without any real need to have a full bidding process. The DfT tell the operators what they want, the operators name the price and the contract goes to the bidder who offers the most reliable service contract but not necessarily the cheapest. Say 50% discount on fees for 3 months if punctuality drops below 75% Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: SDS on January 20, 2014, 17:18:31 The trout.
I still remember the days when in bath you had, Badgerline, City-Line (X35 ?? To Bristol?), streamline, Bath Bus and the UniBus. How many of them are now First Somerset & Avon? Streamline had some okay routes and undercut Badgerline, so first paid midland red west to take over streamline. The UniBus now first operated. Ultimately if they are a pain to first and profitable first will just take them over. Regards EC it should stay in public ownership, but of course the Brussels EU rules dictate it can't be owned (directly) by a public company. And of course we all know that DB is owned by DB AG which in turn is the equiv of a ltd company which is wholly owned by the German state. Oh and also remember the Tory governments friends have got to let their chums get a payout. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Network SouthEast on January 20, 2014, 20:42:14 The government would be within EU rules if East Coast remained publicly owned.
The track and operator must be seperate. That's all. By the way the UK has NEVER complied with the EU ruling because in Northern Ireland the state owned Translink operates both trains and track! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Southern Stag on January 20, 2014, 22:04:51 I'm pretty sure Northern Ireland obtained a derogation because of the small size of the network and with one obvious exception, the near impossibility of cross-border services.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ellendune on January 20, 2014, 23:29:12 Regards EC it should stay in public ownership, but of course the Brussels EU rules dictate it can't be owned (directly) by a public company. And of course we all know that DB is owned by DB AG which in turn is the equiv of a ltd company which is wholly owned by the German state. Oh and also remember the Tory governments friends have got to let their chums get a payout. The track and operator must be seperate. That's all. Network SE is right. The rule is that there has to be a separation. IIRC DB have been in trouble because, although they have separation, the infrastructure company appeared to be favoring the DB operating company. I think France has a similar separation, and they had similar complaints. This all gives grist to the mill who require the complete separation we have (except that we don't have it in Northern Ireland and the Isle of Wight, and possibly SW Trains). Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Lee on March 21, 2014, 16:30:59 East Coast Invitation to Tender has been issued, and confirms an 8 year term from March 2015 with a possible 1 year extension - https://www.gov.uk/government/news/east-coast-on-course-for-improved-rail-services
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: John R on March 21, 2014, 16:50:59 ^the potential for improved services to destinations such as Lincoln
Ah, now where have we heard that before.... ^an opportunity for bidders to serve five new routes including Huddersfield, Scarborough, Harrogate (via York), Middlesbrough and Sunderland (via Newcastle) Let's drive Grand Central central out of business. Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: thetrout on March 21, 2014, 19:57:09 Let's drive Grand Central central out of business. >:( >:( >:( >:( >:( I really don't buy the concept that the idea behind privatisation was to encourage competition. I believe from memory that the SRA/ORR or whatever they were called at the time refused a track access request to Grand Central for operation of services Euston - Blackpool. The reasons were that it would drive passengers off existing services along the route? ::) :o ??? Isn't that example just an excellent idea of competition and passenger choice?! Yet it was rejected?!! Or am I missing something there? As it seems to me the only competition you then have is between the times of trains you use and not different companies. I really wonder how the pricing would change if say another Private Operator started running trains from Minehead - London Paddington (as an example) stopping at intermediate Somerset and Wiltshire stations. Give passengers are real choice of service they want to use and see what happens...? ::) :-X :-\ Of course reverse the shareholder payouts and reinvestment figures around and things could be very different. Government do not learn... >:( Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Brucey on May 11, 2014, 20:25:32 Just spotted this is on Pick TV (Freeview channel 11) now, Sunday 8pm, for those who do not subscribe to Sky TV.
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Red Squirrel on May 11, 2014, 20:34:33 Thanks for the tip!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on May 12, 2014, 14:47:43 Just spotted this is on Pick TV (Freeview channel 11) now, Sunday 8pm, for those who do not subscribe to Sky TV. Watched it last night. Not sure what to make of it. Seemed to mostly Hen and Stag parties! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: eightf48544 on May 19, 2014, 10:39:47 Watched again last night seemed to be mostly how good and well trained the staff are!
Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: Chris from Nailsea on September 09, 2014, 22:36:18 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-29127788):
Quote East Coast rail franchise increases return to taxpayer (http://news.bbcimg.co.uk/media/images/77473000/jpg/_77473674_eastcoast.jpg) East Coast increased passenger numbers and its return to the taxpayer last year The publicly-owned railway company East Coast returned almost ^220m to the taxpayer last year, according to its annual results. Directly Operated Railways - which was set up by the government in July 2009 to run the East Coast franchise - has announced a post-tax profit of ^6.2m. Its profit before tax and fees to the Department for Transport was ^225m, an increase of 8% on the year before. The franchise is due to be re-privatised in March next year. East Coast 2013-14 ^720m turnover ^6.2m post-tax profit ^217m in payments to Department for Transport Labour has said it would allow public-sector operators to challenge private firms for rail contracts, if it wins the general election in 2015. DOR took over the East Coast franchise when National Express's contract was terminated in November 2009, because of financial difficulties. East Coast runs railway services along the 936-mile line, which runs from London to the north of Scotland. Turnover for 2013-14 was ^720m, with ^654m of that coming from passenger income. In total, 19.9m journeys were made, an increase of 4.5% on 2012-13. The chairman of DOR, Doug Sutherland, said: "Our financial performance has been good throughout the year, with ^216.8m provided to the DfT in premium and dividend payments, up from ^202.8m the year before. The business plan for the remainder of the franchise will see the good work continuing, with the twin aims of ensuring a successful transfer of the business back to the private sector in good condition, and maximising the value of the franchise achieved by the government and the taxpayer." The acting general secretary of the RMT union, Mick Cash, said the franchise shouldn't return to the private sector next year. "Despite the continued stunning financial and operational success of the publicly-owned East Coast service, this right-wing Government are hell bent on smashing it up and taking another gamble on a private operator," he said. A spokesman for the Rail Delivery Group, which represents Network Rail and the rail operators, said private firms also returned large sums to the taxpayer. "It remains the case that East Coast is just one of a number of operators making payments to government," he said. "Latest figures for 2013-14 show the biggest payment was made by private operator South West Trains, which paid over ^300m." Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: ChrisB on December 26, 2014, 19:22:47 Closed at Kings Cross tomorrow & very limited on Sunday.
Over-run Engineering Works! Title: Re: East Coast franchise - ongoing discussion, merged topic Post by: grahame on February 12, 2015, 17:40:52 From the Press and Journal (https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/pipe/489614/2-4m-bill-for-rail-sell-off-advice/?)
Quote More than ^2.4 million has been spent on external advisers for legal and financial expertise in the East Coast mainline railway franchise competition. Transport minister Baroness Kramer told peers ^1,196,957.24 had been spent to the end of last month on legal advice. A further ^1,250,538 went on financial advice over the same period, she said in a Lords written reply. ^As the Intercity East Coast franchise competition was the first competition to be run in full since the launch of the franchising programme in March 2013 some of these costs include advice on developing new policies and processes that will be of benefit in future franchise competitions,^ Lady Kramer added. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |