Great Western Coffee Shop

On my way home this evening, I nearly ran into this huge poster, at the top of the stairs to platform 8 at Bristol Temple Meads:

(http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/5815/sdc10084s.jpg) (http://img365.imageshack.us/my.php?image=sdc10084s.jpg)

Now, that's described as a 'polite notice': in what circumstances would FGW display an 'impolite notice' - or even a 'downright rude notice'?   ??? ::)

Nice touch  :D

"Polite notice" is a tromp l'oeil (paging TerminalJunkie, bet I've spelt that wrong...) that is generally employed on white text on a blue ground in an attempt to fool a very quick reader into thinking it says "Police notice".

Looks like someone in FGW's publicity department is getting a bit confused. I'd have thought that poster fell squarely within the remit of a "Special Notice". Presumably an "impolite" notice would advise the reader to "use the f*@$ing stairs behind them and not come complaining to station staff!"  ;)

The poster is ruined by the word "customer". It sends out the wrong signal to the PASSENGERS - no matter how "polite" the notice is.

Hardly the end of the world.

Actually no - there is a difference between customer and passenger

And in the way the customer and passenger perceive themselves vis a vis the service provider

With the amount of money that is required to buy a ticket nowadays, shouldn't that be "stakeholder" ?

No - it's not the end of the world.

But it sends out the wrong message. Using the word "customer" shows that the TOC regard their passengers merely as people to line their pockets.

It should not be like this. When LM took over from Central Trains, customers became passengers again, much to the delight of Passenger User Groups.

Like it or not, "customer" is the standard term for passenger, adopted by British Rail way back when and now almost universally applied by the TOCs (in much the same way as the word "signaller" has replaced "signalman", and the 24-hour clock has replaced the traditional am/pm). These words are standard terminology on the modern railway system and so cannot be regarded as incorrect just because they're different from the words that were in use 50 years ago. Things change, in many cases for the better. The world moves on.

You're also reading rather too much into the word customer vs passenger. The OED defines customer as "a person who buys goods or services from a shop or business", a passenger as "a traveller in a public or private conveyance (other than the driver, pilot, crew etc.)". Given that a passenger is buying a service (travel) from a business (the train company), the words customer and passenger are both fully applicable and it is incorrect to suggest that either is wrong.

Funnily enough - if im referred to as a customer I would demand a better standard of service than if I was a passenger

Passenger implies I am hitching a ride

Customer implies I am choosing to give you my business and therefore want respect not be treated as fodder.

There used to be (still is?) an "abrupt" bordering on "impolite" notice on the door to the station office at Worcester Foregate street.  It said something like "you can knock, but we're probably too busy to take any notice"!!!

I agree with mookiemoo !!!! yes it does happen.

The word passenger implies no choice and the word customer implies choice.

Whilst many people dont have a choice as to which TOC they travel with or at what time, being treated by train crew as if you DID have the choice tomorrow with whom to travel with might make some realise what is needed to make people feel valued and wanted on board.

I dont think you would be alone in that thought process flamingo

Hmmm.

Strictly speaking, my employer normally buys the ticket on which I travel, therefore I consider myself to be a passenger on the network rather than a customer.

I still expect and, I think, deserve, exactly the same treatment however.

With the cost of Open tickets it's not "sakeholder" but more "VICTIM of a MUGGING"

I consider myself a "Customer" at the Booking office, or whilst at the Train Buffet, ie whilst parting with some of the Pictures of the Queen I like to collect.
I consider my Self  a "Passenger" whilst on a Station waiting for a train or when traveling on said train.

However Neither term is correct,

Which of these three statements is correct, when refering to persons on a train.

"The Customer public",
"The Travelling public" or
"The Passenger Public"


Yep that's right the correct term to use is TRAVELLER now doesn't that open a whole can of Worms, not many people wish to be refered too as Traveller these days. ::)

   :-[ not wishing to uspet anyone.......  but have you noticed we are all customers until (God Forbid) there in a fatal incident then we are passengers   ???

No - I carry a valid season ticket every day and I am not a customer. I am a passenger.

And what happens if a firm pays for a season ticket for someone? They CAN'T be a customer, as they didn't buy the ticket!

It doesn't bother me. On the railway I am a passenger but a customer of whoever I buy the ticket from. No difference to me.

"Customer" might be the standard term for "Passenger", introduced by BR, but BR didn't always get it right.

I don't like the term Customer when travelling, the word Passenger seems so much better.
But then the word Traveller fits far better than Customer or Passenger, but would Lord Snooty "of the Beano" take kindly to be called a Traveller.

I still consider BR got it wrong over the term "customer", just like BR got it wrong in bringing in 100 minutes to the hour.

Yes I've worked for BR when I was allocated 1 hour and 73minutes to do the work. That little baby the 100 minute hour soon got kicked out when the press got hold of the story.

Mmm..."passenger stock", not "customer stock"...we could of course all travel in "vent vans" or as special traffic! Passenger is the correct terminology because of the provenance. People like to be considered as Passengers.
"Customers" is insulting...sorry, that's the way it is in the real use of the English language.
Whoever reinvents this stuff should appreciate that people (passengers) have a special relationship with train travel...even if they do it daily...They want to be treated in a special way, especially if that means being greeted by a guard who has a knowledge of the line in question, and gives advice on forward journeys...etc etc as we know.
That's why we are passengers...it's in the genes. That's why the vast majority of people still treat trains with a sort of reverence. They enjoy the experience, the journey, the fact that someone in a uniform appears and gives advice...OK checks tickets in passing...blah blah
The vast majority of people still will buy a ticket because they fear the embarrassment of confrontation.
So there we have it...we are all law abiding passengers...bu**er this supermarket approach to marketing. we get the railway we deserve! Mind I'm 61!!! 8)

Agree fully! It's passenger. Not customer.

When I'm travelling on a train (or indeed even when I'm buying my ticket, before the train arrives), I see myself as 'a passenger'.

Apart from 'passengers', the only other people on trains are 'staff'.  No 'customers'.  ;)

Your theory is flawed Chris... What are you if you use the Buffet...? That surely means you would be a customer... ::) ;) ;D

I bet I know what your response to that will be though... ;)

The Nailsea - Bristol Temple Meads Train doesn't have a bluddy buffet

;) :P ;D ::)

Tounge in cheek mode = Disabled

Then a smart arse comes along and tells you that a lot of the morning arrivals into Bristol do have buffets, courtesy of the humble HST  ;)

Yes devon_metro... I had completely forgotten about those... Infact... That is really bad of me because I used to commute on one of those 4 days a week :o ::) ;) :P ;D

No, in that situation, I'd also regard myself as a 'passenger' - who is using the on-board facilities, to which the purchase of a ticket has granted me access!  ;) :D ;D

The station staff at Reading are good at being impolite or rude.

There is a very big difference between 'passenger' and 'customer'.
I have been told be fgw that I am no longer their customer and only their passenger because my employer buys my ticket through RBT (which is part of south eastern trains). This is how they have decided to do it. It means that I am not entitled to any fge special offers for season ticket holders. (Not that there are any). They don't care about passengers/customers.

Wrong, I do believe that annual season ticket holders that buy from FGW (for FGW) get around 4 or 5 free journeys anywhere on the network.

As I stated. My ticket is not bought from fgw so I do not get this. That it the point I was making about the distinction between passenger and customer. I am not wrong.

The seller of a ticket gets around (?) 5% - used to be 9% (?) of the money taken as a commission / to support the ticket sales outlet and mechanism, so a Swindon to Paddington annual season ticket at 7024 pounds is worth 350 pounds more to First if they sell it rather than a ticket that's sold by one of their competitors. I would appreciate confirmation of my figures / the mechanism by someone who knows.

Passenger / Customer is an old "Chestnut" ... you can be a passenger but not a customer if you travel on a train without a ticket, you can be a customer but not a passenger if you buy a ticket for another (not FGW served) part of the country from them, but usually you'll be both.  I suppose in your case, you are a customer of your employer's benefit scheme, which  is a customer of South Eastern Trains, who are a customer of First Great Western in some ways - but it doesn't read very easily through things like railway clearing and money pooling.

P.S.  Thank goodness you don't have to raise a request for compensation if something is wrong with the product with the person who supplied it to you, who would then have to go to South Eastern Trains, who would ask First Great Western about it.    That's the way it works if you purchase goods in a store;  we usually grumble about how complicated railway stuff is but in this case it seems that it's actually rather better than it might have been!

Yep its 5% for the company/group that sells it. The rest is split up according to the complexities of ORCATS.
So SWI-PAD. FGW would get the main percentage, HC would get a minor bit of it, I also suspect XC would get some small portion as well.

Would SWT not get some since Swindon - London Terminals is valid into Waterloo afaik.

Yep SWT would get some too.

As would London Overground, due to London Olympia being a London Terminal.

Southern and SouthEastern from Clapham to Victoria.

Now you see how complex ORCATS can be if you want it to be!!!

Kensington Olympia is no longer a pukka London Terminal, IIRC from the last online version of the old NFM;  although it still crops up in some fare restrictions as though it's a London terminal, eg SWT's offpeaks and superoffpeak restriction times are defined in terms of arrival at a 'London Terminal or KPA' on their TVMs  ???

Anyone know if the current manual includes Kenny O?

Notwithstanding all that, ORCATS still ensures a veritable minefield of unexpected shareouts to different TOCs.

Paul

And southern from Clapham junction to victoria

As I stated above. :-p

"Southern and SouthEastern from Clapham to Victoria."

Except you are wrong about South Eastern..as they do not serve Clapham Junction

Southern / SouthEastern both owned by govia, so same group :-p

But still technically different companies (just same parent company): Southern Railway Limited and London & South Eastern Railway Limited