Great Western Coffee Shop

I went to Plymouth on Friday and it seems to possibly be the worst connected major city in the UK:

No motorway, poor road access from the west.

First direct train from Birmingham arrives at 10:51.

First direct train from London arrives at 11:15.

Last direct train to Birmingham:  18:25.

Last direct train to Bristol and London (other than sleeper):  19:37.

Last train to stations to Exeter (other than sleeper):  21:16.

Sleeper from Paddington provides early morning arrival.

What's wrong with the M5/ A303 (T) and A38 (T) - you can drive from both London and Birmingham without stopping!

It may be one of the worst, but only just.  I tried out another major city ...

First direct train from Birmingham arrives at 10:51. 10:23

First direct train from London arrives at 11:15. 11:10

Last direct train to Birmingham: 18:25.  18:52

Last direct train to London (other than sleeper):  19:37. 19:00

Last train to stations to Exeter:  21:16. 17:08

Whilst you are correct, the road from London - Plymouth if you stay on a motorway requires a dogleg around the back of Bristol. Very slow indeed.

care to share graham?

That road is an absolute nightmare. In some areas it alternatives between single and dual carriageway, which can lead to major traffic congestion. It is also a very fast and dangerous road. You can get some nasty accidents as well. Also road rage is all too often ;)

Personally, I wouldn't recommend the road. Although some of the greasy spoons on route are very good indeed ;D

The A38 has some substandard sections in the Haldon area.  Plymouth must be one of the largest cities without a motorway.

At least it has an early morning arrival from Bristol now, with the 0634 arriving at 0852.

But I agree, it's not particularly great.

I can't work Graham's teaser out either!

How about
London Padd d 0606
Reading d 0632
Newbury d 0648
Pewsey d 0705
Westbury d 0724
Castle Cary d 0742
Taunton d 0802
Tiverton d 0815
Exeter SD d 0830
Newton Abbot d 0850
Totnes d 0903
Plymouth a 0930

Penzance a 1130

Depart Penzance d 1200 and go on to form the 1357 from Plymouth (so long as the 0906 is extended to Newquay)

This is a good idea as it would remove the current 4 hour gap in London services.  The only concern I have with your plan is the routing via the Berks and Hants.  I'm not sure that many people would want to travel.  It may be an idea to route via Bristol.  You are more likely to get a person wanting to travel from Swindon to Plymouth at that time than from Pewsey, Westbury or Castle Cary.

It would then be about 15/20 minutes slower past Taunton mind.

In the other direction:

Plymouth d 2100
Totnes d 2127
Newton Abbot d 2140
Exeter St Davids d 22:02
Tiverton Parkway d 22:16
Taunton d 22:32
Bristol Temple Meads a 23:07
Bath Spa d 23:20
Chippenham d 23:33
Swindon d 23:48
Reading d 00:18
London Paddingon a 00:50

Grahame's city is over half as far again from London than Plymouth.  I think that the comparison of the last train to Exeter is a bit unfair.

I'm being a bit naughty ... it's Edinburgh which - as rogerw says - is rather further from London / Birmingham than Plymouth is - so it rather confirms the case the Plymouth service ain't all that good.   And, yes, I agree that the Exeter comparison isn't exactly a fair one - I should have added one of these:  ;)  I think.

I don't like the A38 between Exeter and Plymouth either, motorway speeds with all those hills and bends and flat crossings. About 40 minutes though, compared to an hour on the train....

I remember the days when Virgin Trains operated a Fast service between Plymouth and Exeter St Davids. From memory it took about 50 - 55 minutes. Terminated in Glasgow

I also remember the service that went Plymouth - Totnes - Newton Abbot - Taunton - Bristol Temple Meads, didn't call at Exeter...! Terminated in Dundee

Devon_Metro will probably know more about those services I have mentioned and the reasoning behind them ;D

*edit* Altered incorrectly entered timings due to human error :P

FGW have a train that is non stop ply-Exd and don't think it takes much less than those stopping at Tot and NTA

Plymouth - Exeter is 35minutes would defy the laws of Physics!

9S66 0825 Penzance - Dundee used to run Plymouth, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Taunton, Bristol Temple Meads

1A81 0842 Penzance - Paddington is fast Plymouth - Exeter and does the journey in 53 minutes (normally 60 minutes)

I do apologise, I pressed the wrong key on the keyboard, twice!! :P that was ment to say 50 - 55 Minutes, I'll edit the post in a minute, Sorry for being stupid as usual :P *feels embarrassed*

Do you know the reasoning the VT service missed out Exeter St Davids?? Always made me wonder...?! Congestion maybe?

I believe the all-time record between Plymouth and ESD is 46 minutes, achieved by a HST. I think that was when speed limits could be interpreted a little more liberally than now, although it's probably still achievable in that time.

As far as I'm aware, there have never been any plans to extend the M5 further south due to the barrier of the Haldons - it would be far too expensive. The same reason that the railway heads south along the Exe.

It's notable as well that Plymouth has a far poorer local service than Exeter. Only 1 line through Exeter closed - the Teign Valley line - and that was pre-Beeching. The lines to Exmouth, Barnstaple, Paignton and Okehampton are still there, while there's plenty of local stations all around Exeter. Plymouth on the other hand has just the Gunnislake branch and some Cornish traffic, plus a few local stations to the west of the main station. But then as an Exeter fan, I think that shows the importance of the Devon capital compared to that other place down the road. ;)

A stop at Plympton could be opened. (for a Newton A - Liskard/Guinislake shuttle)

;D

I used that intending to go up to Exeter last week, my last memory was feeling a bit tired at Plymouth...woke up...ARGHH!!
It's even faster to Paddington - it only stops at Reading.
Not a clue where I was and not really wanting to visit Reading I was hugely relieved to hear TM announced Exeter.

(Haven't visited Exeter for 40 odd years - very nice - took  trip down the Underground passages)
 
 

Inadequate transport links remain Plymouths achiles heel,a principal reason why Exeters economy in comparison has prospered over the years while Plymouths continues to under-perform particularly so post Cold War as the citys Naval presence has declined.The present rail route between Newton Abbot and Plymouth is a joke in the 21st century with its 55/60mph line speed.That in my book makes it a secondary line not a main line.No wonder any new air links are greeted enthusiastically in these parts.