Great Western Coffee Shop

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/wales/north_east/7920528.stm

I do hope this doesn't mean that the service is at risk of failing. Having Virgin muscle in as appears to be threatened could be the last straw.

At this stage it is more likely a realistic assessment of traffic, after nine months' experience, though I am surprised at them dropping the mid-morning train out of London, which I have used and seemed to have a decent loading for that time of the day, certainly as far as Shrewsbury. While it might have been neater and tidier to change things in December, they probably wanted to see if there was any shift in loadings from the start of the year

The BBC rather skated around them saying they want to run a fourth train on Sundays, while from May they will be operating from London at about 6.30pm, which is sure to have a positive effect. And the biggest shareholder is Deutsche Bahn, who have been quite clear they are committed to building their business in Britain in the long term.

The company's announcement is here http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=31 (http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=31)

A local MP, Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin), quoted in his local rag, quickly demonstrated he had no idea about open access with:

^This is an outrage. The Wrexham, Shropshire and Marylebone Railway made commitments when they won the franchise. They cannot take a pick-and-mix approach to this rail service.^

http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/03/london-rail-services-slashed/ (http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/03/03/london-rail-services-slashed/)

Paul

::)

It is a shame. However, they now mainly have peak trains. If Virgin start other peak competing services - W&S will be finished.
 :'( :'(

Hopefully the 1833 will help! :)

Mark Pritchard is also a supporter of the proposals by Virgin Trains to run two daily services from Shrewsbury to Euston, which would almost certainly kill off W&S. If I were Andy Hamilton I would be arranging a meeting with him to remind him that W&S have restored a direct link to the capital. with decent rolling stock and service, and how Virgin's sudden interest in both Wrexham and Shrewsbury is unlikely to last much beyond the date when they see off the competition.

It's depressing how our elected representatives can be so ill informed. 

http://www.markpritchard.com/search/article.php?id=1333

Maybe Mr Pritchard should start talking to his fellow Shropshire Tory MPs (and the Labour MP for Wrexham) before he opens his mouth on this subject again.

http://www.owenpaterson.org.uk/record.jsp?type=news&ID=324 (http://www.owenpaterson.org.uk/record.jsp?type=news&ID=324)

And remember, the Beardie Express is by no means a done deal - they are going to have to face a lot more scrutiny than there was over the Wrexham via Chester train.

I was under the impression W&S were planning on introducing an 1833 departure from May. Chiltern even altered their timetable to allow for it!

However, according to the new W&S timetable, no such service is coming. I wonder why? - a departure at that time would be popular.

1. Why can a train pulled by a DVT not go through certain platforms at new street but can with a loco?  And whats the major difference between them?

2. Why d they have the weirdest path ever - in through solihull - loop out east, back in through new street, out again to the M6 and then into wolverhampton

1. Not sure about the platform issue. However... I might have misinterpreted your post, but if you're asking what the difference is between DVT and loco it's that the DVT (driving van trailer) is itself unpowered. It's basically just an extra carriage with a driving cab, control desk and pointy end. End result is that you only need one loco because the driver can control the loco at the rear from the front of the train (obviously s/he could never drive from a loco on the rear because they wouldn't be able to see where they were going...)

2. I think at least part of this is due to "moderation of competition" clauses with franchised operators, to avoid "revenue abstraction" from the likes of Virgin, XC and Chiltern. This also explains why many of the W&S stops are pick-up or set-down only. Other reasons are I suspect related to pathing constraints in the Midlands, which again may be partly down to trying to avoid delays to any franchised operations.

2. This is because W&S are allowed to call at B'ham Int, and the W&S want to avoid New Street at all costs (but some services have to go through to get a path). I think ultimately, all services will avoid New Street.

The paths used by W&S through Birmingham vary according to the train and the time of day it's running - they're just what Network Rail came up with to do the job.

Given the legendary congestion at New Street, it may seem bizarre that some services go this way, and sit at the platforms as though they are stopping there, before being sent off by a member of platform staff, but they can't get paths from Leamington through Coventry and International up to Stetchford to run to Wolverhampton that way.

However, some W&S trains coming the other way are able to go via Bescot, Aston and Stechford, then sit in the loop platform at International - where again no-one is able to get on or off, as W&S are not exercising their rights to call at present due to the pathing issues - to allow a Virgin or XC service to overtake before they can go on to Coventry.

You would think that as they have to wait at International, they might as well unlock the doors!

That was the one station noticable by its absence yesterday

We went through widney manor - then on a route I did not recognise until we swept in from the east - I think this was the tysely line (bringing up memories from years ago when I worked there) before going through new street, out through bescott and then into wolverhamptom

I got nothing done for an hour trying to work out where the hell I was!

Obviously you went via Small Heath and then to New Street on the Bordesley curves. NR have probably rammed them in anywhere they can.

Must have been frustrating knowing you were yards from Moor Street and a direct train to Kidderminster!

Nah - car was at ludlow

:-(

Getting to kiddie was no help

I will try and get an answer to your first question as I know someone who might know the answer.

As for routes through and around Birmingham W&S drivers know virtually every way from Leamington to Wolverhampton. Apart maybe from Aston to New Street (Proof House Junction) which is the other leg of the circuit through New Street and the Soho Loop.

I believe on a Sunday they even use the Stour Valley direct from Wolverhampton to New Street.

As other have said Networkrail have cobbled togther paths using different combinations of routes to get them across Birmingham.

One of the of the major problems for W&S is that with the loss of the Snow Hill to Wolverhampton LL,  GW direct route,  is that coming from Leamington W&S are forced to go LNW to Wolverhapton either via Coventry or Bordesley (part Midland). If you go via Bordesley there is no way of avoiding New Street if you go via Coventry then you can go via Stechford to Aston and the Grand Trunk. via Bescot.

There is very vague talk of a link from the Soho Loop to the Kidderminster line from Snow Hill where they cross, but don't hold your breath. The other link which was also proposed was from the Midland Derby Line North East to the LNW Stechford Aston Line avoiding New Street. There was to be a station at the junction to be called Birmingham Heartlands which would be a major  interchange to relieve pressure on New Street by allowing through passengers to change at Heartlands rather than New Street. Thus it  would allow South Coast  to NW Cross Countries to avoid New Street and also allow interchange with the SW to NE Cross Countries which will avoid New Street  via the Camp Hill line plus local interchange with LNW Coventry, International Wolverhampton trains. There would also have  been  local services to New Street via the Midland.

Pictures of the first set (at long last) on a test working here http://www.nwrail.org.uk/ click on the noticeboard link.

Shame the livery with have to be replaced at the end of the year with Chiltern's!

Travelled with WSMR from Tame Bridge Parkway to Banbury on Sunday, couldn't fault them!
Chicken lunch was delicious in first class.
Only thing that was a bit bizarre was thinking I'd seen the crew somewhere before, then realised it was their photos on the WSMR website!

I would like to try W&S First Class out sometime, but getting to Tame Bridge Parkway is very awkward for me (and I'll actually want a decent stint in the capital). But ^74 is a lot of money for a return trip. (even if this is good value/ cheap compared to other operators) I would have to return in standard to make it ^43.

According to Wikiepdia, DB have DVTs and one is painted in the Chiltern livery.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Driving_Van_Trailer#Current_Status

Of course, Wiki can't be 100% trusted, but it is normally reliable.

Don't forget to factor in the 2 course meal (or 3 courses for an extra ^3.95) available inclusive in first class. I've sampled this catering option and it is excellent. Not quite up to FGW's Pullman dining, but, that ain't inclusive! The food and drink on offer would probably cost ^15-^20 in a restaurant, so times that by two and the advance purchase first class fares make even more sense. (Even without a railcard!!). Maybe try it one way in combination with a Chiltern advance fare to/from Marylebone on the other journey leg.

Good idea! Use advances: go down on Chiltern from Kidderminster, and return to Tame Bridge on an Advance.

It'll just be finding a time to do it...

Only about a year late! The train looks pretty impressive in the picture - mind you, even a Pacer would look good crossing that viaduct!

There's also a good picture on the BBC News site, at http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/hi/pop_ups/08/uk_enl_1252756453/html/1.stm

http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/p60895278.html

Wow what a high quality refurb. W&S standard class looks better than many TOCs 1st class!

Some intelligent thought's gone into the placing of the plug sockets, too. Nice.

Agreed. Placing the power sockets at right angles to the norm is a nice touch. Someone at WSMR realised that phone chargers etc are often larger than a standard 'plug'. Good work.

They've done that because Chiltern have them like this already. ;)

Chiltern are adding automatic doors to their Mark 3 coaches! It looks like Chiltern's main service will be loco hauled for the long term now. The coaches are being refurbed to a high standard, so they can be used post 2019:

http://www.railway-technology.com/contractors/signal/delta-rail/press7.html

I expect that Chiltern realise that they'll need the 168s for Oxford trains. Or if the "rumour" about W&S is true, they may be preparing to run Wrexham services with 168 in the short term until after the credit crunch...

Combine this with the 172s to augment the 165s, it looks like Chiltern are expanding their fleet again. (they've already more than doubled the fleet since privatisation)

 ;D ;D

The revised timetable will start on Monday, October 5, with the new 18.33 departure from London in place of the 20.03 being the key feature, although the first train from London is going to set out at a slightly more civilised time of 7.23 and the 16.03 is going to pick up passengers at Banbury again.

The new times are not yet posted on the W&S website's timetables page, but are in their journey planner.

Shropshire Star story here http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/09/16/new-london-rail-timetable/ (http://www.shropshirestar.com/2009/09/16/new-london-rail-timetable/)

I can't help thinking it's strange that the sets have such long layovers in London. The worst example is the 1123 arrival into Marylebone which doesn't leave until 1633. 

I would be tempted to lend out a unit during the day to Chiltern to provide a high quality service to Stratford. It could leave Marylebone at around 0930 and arrive back at 1800. Ideal for American tourists, though maybe they're all on prepurchased passes, so wouldn't actually bring much revenue to Chiltern/W&S.

You never know, when CHiltern start using loco + coaches, they may be train sharing.

But remember that CHiltern is a one class railway (everyone is First Class! ;D ) as opposed to W&S. (where everyone is First or Super First!)

So is ATW, except for the Premier North-South Wales service. It wouldn't compromise their policy too much to offer one service to Stratford aimed at rich American tourists.

The extended layovers are a result of them dropping from five trains on weekdays to four earlier this year.

I should think that a lot of overseas visitors are indeed using Britrail passes but given that the highlight of many people's visit to Stratford is seeing some Shakespeare at the RSC, a train getting into London at 6pm would have to leave Stratford before the end of many afternoon performances, so not a lot of use.

And please don't tell me that a 165 (which are used on almost all Stratford services), even refurbished, is first class - 3+2 seats, need I say more?

(a) It's a joke that a Chiltern guard once said to someone I know.

(b) The 165s are used on the least used trains. All the business and "day out in London" trains are 168s. I would agree that moe 168s would be desirable, but with the Oxford services swiping many of them, I can't see it happening.

Still nothing on the W&S website. I hope people are not caught out by this! (as in they turn up at Marylebone at 8 o'clock only to find out that their only route to a bed is to book into the Marylebone Travelodge!

Unlikely to catch that many out, as they didn't release any advance purchase tickets for evening departures beyond the end of this month until the timetable change was confirmed - I believe this block on advance ticket sales was one of the factors fuelling some of the rumours claiming the demise of W&S was imminent.

Track Access applications are now available on the Network Rail website which give more
of a clue as to what is going on, including all the proposed timetables:

http://tinyurl.com/mtj9lr Chiltern
http://tinyurl.com/m8u8bg WSMR

A key change seems to be to make new WSMR calls at Leamington Spa, and make existing calls at
Banbury, 'open', ie removing pick up and set down restrictions:

"To allow Wrexham & Shropshire to provide a more reliable and robust service through having the ability to substitute or supplement its existing Rolling Stock with other Rolling Stock hired from Chiltern Railways as required

" To generate synergies between Chiltern Railways and Wrexham & Shropshire by reducing duplication of service provision. Currently, passengers are unable to travel from London Marylebone to Banbury on Wrexham & Shropshire
services even though the Wrexham & Shropshire services make a call at Banbury; equally whilst Wrexham & Shropshire services pass through Leamington Spa, they do not currently call.

"The change permits Wrexham & Shropshire services to fulfil certain Chiltern Railways PSR quantum requirements between London and Banbury and Leamington Spa. This reduces costs on Chiltern Railways since certain Chiltern services which duplicate the route taken by Wrexham & Shropshire services can be removed.

Paul

Any idea when the timetables are signed off.

I want to check times on the online planner, but can't trust it yet!

As I expected, W&S will cease to operate as a separate company from December, although the W&S brand will remain. This will enable restricted calls at Banbury to be removed, and additional calls at Leamington etc.

http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=75

It is rumoured that 168s will be used on all but the peak services, allowing Chiltern to use the loco + mk 3s - but this is not confirmed.

http://www.modern-railways.com/latestnews/?p=82

Will Chiltern get subsidy for these services? As unless passenger numbers pick up, I fear for the route.

Bye bye to the one thing that made the W&S worthwhile - the MK3 sets and on train service

Much quicker from Shrewsbury to get a fast to birmingham and change to Virgin.........

Sometimes I wonder whether it would be better for VT to serve the region. Wrexham by expanding  Chester terminators, Walsall by extending B'ham terminators and Shrewsbury/Telford by extending Wolverhampton terminators.

But nowhere near as nice a journey. For an extra 30-40 minutes on train it's worth avoiding a change at New Street/Wolverhampton or Wolverhampton and Stafford. Also the fares are cheaper and the catering in 1st class is superior (OK no free G+T on WSMR!). And a first class fare from Shrewsbury to Euston has no first class accomodation on the first leg of the journey.

Oh, and Marylebone is a much more civilised destination than the airport terminal at Euston!

I hope that the service continues with the existing rolling stock. According to the Modern Railways article there are  enough carriages available to Chiltern/WSMR to make up five rakes of MKIIIs, so Chiltern should have access to enough stock for their own loco-hauled designs.

totally agree - so long as the existing stock stay on the route.

However I get the impression chiltern are intending to snaffle the Mk3 stock and replace it with the DMU's they run at the moment - and if its the choice of a 158 to brum then a pendo or several hours on a clubman (at best) I know which I would do - and I dont much like changing if I dont have to

Also - I wonder whether the quality at seat dining service in first will stay - that made the journey worth while!

NB: We won't know the full detail of stock for a while!

BUT it seems sensible for the empty contra-peak trains to be run as 168s. It's why Chiltern run 165s on the off peak Stratford trains.

And to be fair, while mark 3s are excellent and unbeatable, I think that Turbostars are actually very good trains - smooth, quiet and comfortable, with large windows and good seat alignment.

Not as smooth, quiet and comfortable as a properly maintained original configuration MkIII, no underfloor engines and window aligned seating. 1/3-2/3 door alignment and the interior being designed for commuter use is not really conducive to long distance travel.

I suspect that your comment about windows/seats was a veiled dig at the 390s!

Also, where's the buffet/kitchen on a 168/17x?  ;)

There's a horrible vibration on 168's around the 40-60mph region as well. Overall a good train (for the market it serves) though.

Ok, no catering. But the underfloor engine is really not a nuisance. Scotrail run them on long distance services, and they're fine. At least everyone can see out the window, unlike Pendolinos, and

Of course, nothing can beat the Mark 3 or 4 idea. Shame that the HST2/IEP project isn't just to have a Mark 5, with (a) 155 mph capable locomotive(s), which could be diesel or electric, and could be swapped between, as more lines were electrified.

That was a quick rewrite of history. What you actually wrote was the following:


Whereas what's actually happening, and only if officially approved, is the W&S company will continue to trade - it has to, because Chiltern has no powers to run into Shropshire and Wales, as they are outside its franchise area. W&S is open access, so different rules apply, which means Chiltern can't get a subsidy, open access means the operator bears the financial risk. And there would be a hell of a protest from franchised operators if there was even a hint of an open access firm getting an operating subsidy.

W&S will remain in the same three-way ownership by DB Regio, Renaisssance and Laing, but they want to transfer day-to-day operations to Chiltern to save some money. It will continue to operate from Wrexham - just as well given the grant they got for their depot from the Welsh Assembly Government, which might have wanted its money back.

W&S-branded trains will continue to run - and no wonder, given that in a little over a year they have established the brand, with a customer satisfaction rating off the scale - even by comparison with Chiltern's high rating among franchised operators.

In terms of rolling stock, all that is known is that they have asked for the ORR's consent to use 168s, nothing more, nothing less. Whether or when they will actually be used remains an unknown - and it could be pretty confusing for passengers if Chiltern trains appear in Shropshire while W&S sets turn up at Snow Hill. Never mind that Chiltern ditched first class and has minimal trolley catering. And why would they use an expensive loco and coaches to cover for a 168 when the cuts to Chiltern's Stratford trains from December will free up a nice cheap 165 or two instead?

While they have consulted in advance and no doubt had some preliminary discussions with the ORR, it can still refuse some or all of what they want to do. And it may be the case with the prospect of more open access operations on the horizon, in the shape of Grand Central's Yorkshire trains, some of the franchised operators may want to challenge the removal of the restrictions on Banbury stops, as this could set a precedent they might not like.

And by way of a footnote, having just looked up their track access contract on the ORR website, Chiltern does not have rights to use Class 67s and coaches on its services (schedule 5, page 35 should you care to check) and even if it would be a formality, has not applied to do so so yet. This is in contrast to FGW, which has got the powers to run 67s and Mk2 or Mk3 coaches pretty much anywhere on its network, including places such a formation has never been seen, like the Cotswold Line.

The first refurbished W&S train is going into passenger service this morning, with three more sets to follow. Also, there will be free WiFi provision on all W&S trains as of tomorrow (Thursday), whether operated with the overhauled stock or the hired-in Cargo-D Mk3s.

Today's 15:25 ex Wrexham left 15 minutes late and was back on time by Leamington Spa.  If there's at least 15 minutes of padding at the northern end of the route and a similar amount could be trimmed off of the southern section as a result of Evergreen 3 perhaps we'll get to see some really good timings - 3h 15 mins Wrexham to Marylebone and 2h 40m from Shrewsbury and 2h 20m from Telford would really compete with the road and Virgin Trains (especially Shrewsbury and Telford)!

My last journey with them had a good 2 hours to get from Wolverhampton to LEamington - there haas to be a whole load more than 15 minutes in that!

But I'm afraid that until something is done about capacity through Birmingham they never will get sparkling timings.

They have to have a fair amount of slack in hand due to the multifarious routes they use in the  West Midlands - and the signalling between Wrexham and Shrewsbury. It might be double track but has precious few signal sections.

Worst of all is probably Gobowen to Croes Newydd - the box you can see just south of Wrexham General station. That's a lot of miles without a signal to be seen. Last time I went that way, we sat at Gobowen for nearly 10 minutes waiting for a preceding train to reach Wrexham and were still on time there ourselves.

This weekend and next, due to closure of Banbury-Leamington, W&S are running on the WCML, with a bit of a magical mystery tour round north London to get to and from Marylebone. The time allowed between Tame Bridge and Marylebone is anything between 1hr 52min to, er, 2hr 38min.

Despite the magical mystery tours, the passengers are turning up in increasing numbers, up a mere 88.8 per cent in the last six weeks of last year compared with the same period in 2008 and the trains now seem to be running with four passenger coaches, three standards plus the buffet-firsts.

http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=93

There are some pictures of the weekend diversions here http://geoff-plumb.fotopic.net/c900316.html including a couple taken on the Greenford line.

Great news. May it continue to thrive.

P.S. Am I the only one to imagine the MD as a rather shortish gentleman with a beard, a cutting edge of humour, and speaking like the Devil in Old Harry's Game?

Don't get me wrong - if I lived in Shrewsbury - they would be my mode of choice if I worked in London.

Sadly there is not train from Ludlow to connect to the first W&S from shrewsbury - if you were in north london would almost be qucker (and certainly cheaper) to go Ludlow-shrews-MYB than via newport!

I do use them on the rare occasions I go to London at weekends

The reality is rather less exotic... http://www.railnews.co.uk/opinions/interviews/2008/12/02-andy-hamilton.html

Goodness knows what the usual gangs of degenerates that hang around Drayton Green and Castle Bar Park thought of those! Far more challenging to surf than the grab rails on the back of a Turbo cab!

So declares the angel.

Coffeeshop fora - blocked
TES community - blocked
weight watcher message board -blocked
runnersworld - blocked
open university noodle vle - blocked

all saying only suitAble for over 18 and asking to phone 150 from your mobile to request it unblocking.

I gave up at that point.

Have your parents restricted your access?   :D

It's obviously ATW retaliating for not being allowed to run their Aberystwyth to Marylebone service.   ;D

lol it does seem abit silly tbh

Well it was awful - I worked out I could get onto the bbc and that was it...........oh - and facebook.

Also - we DID call at New Street - cable theft at Thame Bridge!

Was on W&S because I was in central London and my default was via newport......... except then I realised the 1833 (I was right next to marylebone) would get me in at 2232 - same time as via newport realistically - and it was cheaper and I'd be fed!

Off topic, though that never stops me, travelled WSMR Friday before last, as usual the service was top notch, food to put other companies to shame (treated myself to a TAB-BAN 1st trip).
I suppose in my shorter trip I didn't have time for Wiffy as I was busy with the chicken terrine and lamb shoulder.
^16 WSMR first single TAB-BAN, with a free two course meal thrown in not bad at all for an hour on the train, compare that to a peak FGW first fare RDG to PAD!

I have to say everything else was top notch - I don't want ANYONE to think I'm slagging of W&S because I'm not - just the wifi is a bit - silly.

I didnt go for the game terrine but went for the mushroom soup ( the alternative was minestrone)

I had lamb shank with potatoes and carrots (turned down the stuffed chicken and the sweet potato and chick pea curry)

We were 9 late leaving banbury and 10 leaving leamington then got diverted via new street because of the thame bridge fiasco - but I still got to shrewsbury on time to make my connection.

Two interesting things come to mind:

1. If I HAD gone via newport, I would have been late - the train I would have been on was only pulling INTO ludlow as I cam out of tesco having done a shop

2. Most people in the first carriage were not using the wifi - I know this because when I asked was this a known issue, the customer host (is that what they are called?) and the TM went through the carriage asking if anyone had the same problem.

I was the only one connecting to wifi other than for email.  So maybe its not a pressing issue.  Would be interesting if they did the same survey in standard.

I did also noice, several people asking whether the standard class cariages were standard - and I have to say, if I wasnt after the free meal (getting home after 10 and then cooking was not attractive), I would have NO Problem going W&S standard on the refurbs.  Not at all!

I think they stick with the old-fashioned Senior Steward and Steward.

They get 10/10 for out of the box thinking that few other operators think of, diverting via WCML, stops at Wembley on match days, tube maps and travelcards on offer from the TM etc.

Standard on W&S is better than many TOCs First class IMHO.

Quite right! None of this stupid Retail Service Manager, Customer Host. IT'S STEWARD DAMMIT!

Why not use a VPN connection FA...?? It would bypass the system and all your internet traffic is routed through your company/home servers... slow if your using an ADSL link on your servers but certainly usable... ;D

I for one do not use a WiFi hotspot without an encrypted VPN connection to my work network... But then I deal with confidential information so having somebody monitoring my connection is a no no ;)

I think that W&S are fantastic. They always have a vegetarian meal option, staff are very friendly and approachable, also the service is very punctual too ;D

On my last trip with them I went on the newly refurbished coaching stock, which I have to say, I thought was superb. They've really pushed the boat out as the seats are really comfy, the lighting is pleasent, the toilets were clean (and also had those Dyson Airblade Hand Driers).

Also some of there tickets are excellent value for money. First Class Anytime Return - Tame Bridge Parkway - Wrexham General for approx ^30 with railcard. Much better than the ATW rat infested 158 option ;D

By the way, my iPod Touch Wifi never works in VT First Class! >:(

Appalling!  :o ;D

While W&S does many things very well, people do seem to get a bit starry-eyed about it on occasions. It's not too hard to concentrate on getting details right when you run three or four trains a day each way.

And what's out of the box about Wembley stops for big events? They got the idea off their sister firm Chiltern, which has been doing it for a long time. And diverting on alternative routes, what's out of the box about that? FGW South Wales services go via Gloucester when the Severn Tunnel is shut and South Wales and West Country trains will be running via Oxford, Banbury (reverse) and the Chiltern Line between Christmas and New Year's Eve when Reading is out of action for the signalling to switch to Didcot.

Indeed! :P

Serves you right for using that Apple garbage... ;)

Oh I don't know. FGW seems to make a pretty good fist of screwing the people of West Wiltshire over pretty comprehensively on a regular basis.

From the Oxford Mail (http://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/8493250.Rail_firm_cuts_unprofitable_services/):

Just in time for Chiltern to take over, and use the hst stock on something more useful.

Go and say that on the two morning peak trains into London and the 16.30 and 18.30 back. They are rather useful to people in Shropshire and north-east Wales. Though whether that will be enough to keep them in business is another matter, given they are still hobbled by Virgin's sweetheart deal until 2012 and the pathing problems around Birmingham.

And presumably you mean loco-hauled, rather than HST stock. Could be some fun and games from December with slam doors at the Warwickshire stations, with some heroic assumptions about dwell times. The 05.46 from Birmingham is allowed less time to call at Warwick Parkway, Warwick and Leamington Spa than some Clubman services. The other LHCS train in the morning is the 06.53 from Banbury.
Return LHCS trains are 16.33 Marylebone to Moor Street and 18.06 to Banbury.
All carry the note 'Chiltern Railways train formed of carriages which may carry other branding'.

A slight disappointment that the through trains from Wrexham/Shrewsbury are being cut back, but having looked at the loadings I'm not surprised.  Perhaps 15-minutes or so off the current journey times south of Banbury from next May will be possible with the 'Mainline' enhancements and that'll be enough to win some more custom?

I didn't realise that a couple of Chiltern's services were going over to LHCS as soon as December - I assumed that would wait until the extra stock was required following the Oxford link opening.  Tight dwell times indeed though!

The Banbury - Marylebone early morning and evening peak return LHCS service was applied for a few months ago specifically to allow a couple of 165s or 168s at a time to go for GSM(R) fitting;  was it not mentioned here earlier?

The same track access bid also asked for Chiltern to be allowed to use LHCS on other services on an adhoc basis to deal with short term capacity issues, but that seems to have subsequently become a regular daily 'early out and late back' from/to Snow Hill  - at least as far as posters in other forums believe...   ::)

Paul 

Paul,

I'm not citing posts on other forums, rather the new Chiltern timetable, for which a full pdf is available to download now at their website.

And guess which operator has got an errata leaflet online detailing late changes to its December pocket timetables, but has yet to post the said timetables...

FGW I presume?  The same operator who sends a couple of 165/166's for refurbishment without sourcing an innovative solution like Chiltern.  If we're looking in the same place, the errata leaflet actually applies to the current timetable(s) and not the December one though.

My mistake, when you said the LHCS from December was a surprise I thought we'd discussed it here in the Coffee Shop already, but I now think not...

Paul

I am traveling on   Wrexham & Shropshire next wednesday from Wrexham to London after coming up by train from Cardiff. I have been told they are great to travel on, although sadly i dont think they have beenhelped by therecent downturn in the economy etc.

 Hopefully in 2012 they will be allowed to carry passengers between Wolverhampton & London and maybe pick up passengers at Birmingham which hopefully should provide a bit more money for them.

Maybe wrexham & shropshire should look at if it is cost effective & profitable to fit the  class 67's & DVT's they operate with ETRM'S  and operate  2 services per day  to/from Aberystwyth in addition to the trains from Wrexham.

If you are referring to FGW can you provide a link to this errant errata leaflet?

Does that leave room for the DB Arriva Aberystwyth to Marylebone service?

Oops, saw December in the wording... still, would be nice to see some FGW December timetables available by now though. The info has been in the journey planners for a while and although Chiltern's network is simpler, that pdf booklet of their full service is a bit of a beast, which must take a deal of work.


I suspect that DB will have too much on its plate trying to integrate Arriva's operations into its management structure, completing Chiltern Mainline and getting Oxford-Bicester through to start that kind of operation just at the moment, not least due to the problems getting ERTMS into service. Enhancing the Cambrian Line's service would seem the more logical development in that part of the world for the time being.

The staff have not got their comprehensive book of all services yet. The big massive A5 book (or atlas) of every timetabled service complete with headcodes and (predicted) train formation.

Spoke with someone today and apparently is a problem at the printers (now where have I heard that before??)

Isn't that now something of a moot point? As I understand things, unless there have been subsequent and substantive developments the ORR comprehensively nixed Arriva's proposal for Aberystwyth-London services in March, decision letter sent to Arriva here (http://www.rail-reg.gov.uk/upload/pdf/s22-atw-38sa-decision-letter.pdf).

Don't think so, as Chiltern/W&S/DB were extremely vocal opponents of the idea, but wouldn't be were something similar be suggested in future as they are now in common ownership with ATW (which some might say was a subsequent and substantive development), leaving only Virgin and LM to complain about revenue abstraction, which from my reading of the decision letter was the killer issue in ORR's eyes, highlighted at point 50.

Yes I know the ORR said no Cambrian Coast Express but that was partly because of potential revenue theft from W & S.  Since the whole lot is in the control of DB now you could see how the arguments might change.

I understand that they have.

The latest Track Access Application on the ORR website for W&S requests continued permission for full access calls at Banbury & Leamington until May 2011 only

When I challenged Chiltern at a recent Passenger Board meeting about this, there were some embarrassed faces spluttering about the ORR suggesting that they (DB) were to look at other DB synergies - this being explained as a possible Aberystwyth - MYB service (possibly as a synergy with W&S, I understood)

So a ATW gfeeder from Aberystwyth into a W&S service at Shrewsbury, with that service (run by ATW maybe?) running through (able to stop at both Birmingham New Street and International!) as well as Banbury / Leramington (PU/SD) into MYB....

Watch this space, I reckon.

Havent had confirmation of this yet, but word is flying around that wrexham & shropshire have gone out of business and their last trains will be running this friday.  there is a test message on their website so is suspect that there will be something there soon, speaking to some people on other forums, this does sadly seem to be true which is a shame.

used them back in november and i have to say it was the best train journye i have ever had, other operators shoudl learn. hopefully chiltern will take over the services, especially the peak hour services.

so anybody who has yet to travel on them i suggest you look at doing asap.

I really hope that the rumours aren't correct. Not sure about the structure of the DB/Chiltern/W&S/Arriva conglomeration but I had thought that W&S was owned by DB, in which case I'd be surprised if it had gone out of business per se, but I guess they may well find themselves up a gum tree if DB has withdrawn its funding support.

Sadly it is looking to be very true an annocement is expected later today

just got an email confirming it

http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/news-item.php?id=131

Wrexham & Shropshire railway to cease operations on Friday 28th January 2011.

It is with great regret that we announce that Wrexham & Shropshire will stop operating trains on Friday 28th January.   
This very difficult decision has been taken following a full review of all possible alternatives, in which it was concluded that the business, which operates with no public subsidy, would not provide a return on investment.
 
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you for your loyal and continued support. Without your assistance, our award winning service would not have been possible. We are very sorry that we have not been able to sustain it.
 
Until Friday 28th January trains will operate normally. The last train will be the 1830 from London Marylebone.
 
From Saturday 29th January, all Wrexham & Shropshire tickets already purchased will be valid on alternative routes into London Euston operated by Arriva Trains Wales, London Midland and Virgin Trains, and London Marylebone by Chiltern Railways.
 
If you have already purchased a Wrexham & Shropshire ticket for travel after 28th January, please click here (http://www.wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk/alternative-travel.php) for alternative travel arrangements.
 
If you have not yet booked a ticket for forthcoming travel, please be aware that you will need to book to travel with alternative train operators. You can book tickets for travel with other train companies via our sister company Chiltern Railways ^ please click here.
 
Our customer service centre will remain open to provide customer support. To contact them, email info@wrexhamandshropshire.co.uk or telephone 0845 260 5200.
 
We would like to take this opportunity to thank you, our customers, for your loyal support.



Edited to tidy up url address and links. bignosemac

BBC report at http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-12284468

A shame for passengers, as standards of service were second to none, and incredibly hard on the staff now left looking for new jobs in the current climate.

Both owned by DB Regio UK. Sadly, it looks as though losing the ability to carry the Chiltern rush-hour passengers from Banbury / Leamington was the final straw, and DB pulled the plug quite fast.

A real shame is this. I just wish I'd known a few days ago. I would've changed my day out plans for today and had one last First Class jolly on W&S. Instead I'm here in Liverpool and I only got a bacon bap and a coffee in First from Virgin on the Bendyleano from Stafford!

Maybe see if the pennies will stretch to a trip from Shrewsbury to Banbury tomorrow. I think I'll avoid Friday as I imagine it will be a bit of an enthusiast fest that day!

RIP Wrexham & Shropshire. You were an excellent example of how a passenger service should be. Sadly, in the current economic climate unparalleled customer service wasn't enough for the hard nosed German bean counters who became your most recent masters. So long and farewell.

 :( :'(

Now worried about the Banbury / Leamington pax carried on the 1630 / 1830 ex-MYB. Chiltern aren't intending to un any extra trains in those paths to carry these pax - and the 1833 is already full, with the odd standee. The 1633 only has a dozen seats free generally.

And I'm aware that there are no spare units lying around either - I think Banbury / Leamington commuters might be in for rather crowded journeys....

 i suspect that chiltern will find a use for the stock

I do too - the 1636 is already a loco & coaches. I think DB/WSMR already own their coaching stock, so use a couple of those WSMR coaches to strengthen the 1636, and then swap it for the 1833 clubman.

Or hire a loco, and together with a strengthed set of WSMR coaches, use in place of the 1833 clubman - which releases the clubman to strenthen another service. At least there will be more space at MYB for departing pax at those times....it gets awfully busy & MYB will need to cope with Oxford pax quite soon.

I think they paln to eventually  run most of the London Marylebone - Birmingham services using loco hauled stock

"most".....maybe a few.....to release Clubmans for the Oxford service.

I understand that they now have 40 coaches owned....but that may increase if that number don't include the released WSMR coaches.

Very disappointing news, but I think that might be partly behind the decision.  The Class 67's, DVT's and Mk 3's could well be put to better use (revenue and capacity wise) on the London to Birmingham route post Evergreen 3 - and there's not a bottomless pit of them out there.

Also, Arriva Trains Wales could inherit their paths with the long muted Aberystwyth to Marylebone service which would/could call at the same stations as WSMR (save for Chirk, Ruabon and Wrexham) but utilise cheaper to operate stock and also pick up much needed custom from the central Wales stations on the way to Shrewsbury.

Possibly - but more likely these two facts - Adrian Shooter explained in the press release that WSMR lost ^2.6million in 2010. DB will want to see a return on their money - not a loss........and secondly, Chiltern have been told by the ORR that WSMR were unable to carry their Banbury & Leamington pax post the May11 timetable - hence losing a share of the lucrative Rail Settlement Plan money they've been getting through the farebox, thus further exacerbating the loss.


That would again be open-access and needing to prove a case to the ORR before being allowed. DB again will need to be sure of a return on their money. In the current recession, I can't see it....

I see Wolmar (WSMR were originally set up in competition with Chiltern) and Crow (they should nationalise the franchise) both succeed in clouding the issues big time...

Paul

No it weren't. W&S was originally a partnership between Laing Rail and Renaissance Trains (also involved with Hull Trains). At the time, Laing owned Chiltern, before DB bought the rail operation, inclusing the W&S stake from Laing.

Would it be open-access?  ATW are a franchised operator - surely it would just need approval from the ORR in an 'extention to their current franchise map' way.  Much like Virgin's Wrexham extension of a couple of years ago, or EMT's daily service from Lincoln?

That's exactly what I was getting at - Wolmar talking through his hat again...

Paul

Yes, it would as they would be competing for business with franchisees (unless it cut out stops completely away from other franchees routes, including Chiltern)

I dont really mind arriva running services to london from Aberystwyth as long as they don't use teh class 158's. Another problems is that the DVT & class 67's would have to be fitted with ETRM'S for use on the cambrian line.

I wouldn't  mind a loco hauled service on the cambrian route with some Aberystwyth - Birmingham services being extended to London.

You'll get the 158s if anything, as ATW originally applied for. No need to spend money when you don't have to.

I refer to my post of 5th November.  Don't forget that ATW is subsidised by WAG, who are keen on Aberystwyth - London.  Without W & S there's less of an issue about revenue abstraction and ATW could run non-stop from Birmingham anyway.

The ORR acknowledged that there were no performance or capacity issues in relation to the application when they rejected it on 1/3/10.  The concluding paragraph says:-


In other words, ATW could only make money if their optimistic projections are right or if they nick all the W & S passengers...

 

But WSMR can't make a profit (read loss of ^2.6million last year), then ATW will struggle to cover that sum *and* make a profit. Don't forget ATW & WSMR are stablemates & DB just pulled the plug on one.....would they want another subsiduary to take over thje same route & some as an open-access op? I have my doubts, but we'll see.

I agree with you, Chris - though a more streamlined operation, using much cheaper Class 158's and established staff from a large pool, none of the catering frills which must have cost an awful lot - along with ditching the very dubious bit of WSMR's route between Wrexham and Shrewsbury for the more lucrative bit from Aberystwyth which already loads a 4-car 158 quite well, and I could see that ^2.6m being altered quite significantly.  Perhaps not enough to make money, but as you say, we'll see whether anything comes of it. 

I personally think that ATW would be better off concentrating on getting the Aberystwyth to Shrewbury/Brum service up to an hourly frequency first which has been talked about for ages now.

Agree wholeheartedly with that.

Just had an e-mail from Wrexham and Shropshire that they are to cease trading...! :(

Apparently so TT.  ;)

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=7913.15

Piece on You and Yours with Adrian Shooter.

The main killer seemed to be low passenger numbers and not being able to pick up at Wolverhampton due to a competition blocking clause in Virgin's franchise agreement.

Makes a mockery of privatisation which was supposed to introduce competition.

Wonder whether Virgin will remove their 07:00 Wrexham to Euston put on  as a spoiler.

No.

From press release on Virgin wesbite

XC wil also accept tickets marked WSMR Tains Only on it's services between Wolverhampton and Banbury.

Are you sure about that? Can you point to anywherte on the web that stes this? As I've seen otherwise, and all press releases and emails have conspicuously omitted XC as a ticket accepting TOC

Seeing as rts works for XC I assume they have been told to accept them.

But not on WSMR-only tickets it doesn't.

Seems pretty clear to me.

I don't agree. I've seen specific paperwork that states XC are NOT accepting WSME-only tickets, and wouldn't want anyone to get done for a new ticket.

But odd really, as both WSMR and XC are owned ultimately by the same TOC.

Well, despite not seeing any 'paperwork', I'd tend to believe what I'm being told by an XC Train Manager who works the route. All said and done, it's their train and they have the final say.

It's possible that what I saw referred to London tickets not being valid via Reading on XC.

Crosscountry certainly appear from the alternative travel arrangements to be accepting tickets between Birmingham New Street, Leamington Spa and Banbury. I presume in practice this means Wolverhampton would be acceptable, it was probably just ignored because services from the Shrewsbury direction would normally continue to New Street Station.

Virgin are accepting between Birmingham/Wolverhampton and Euston and Chiltern seem to be doing likewise from the brief reading I made.

I wonder how many tickets are left out there, I know there were quite a few non-enthusiasts yesterday who had simply booked to travel on Friday often well before the announcement. Presumably it could be up to 12 weeks before the last of the tickets are used up? I know it was possible to buy tickets at the station yesterday and possibly online.
Having made the decision to travel on the day and knowing that a buy on board policy applied, I went to Banbury and travelled on the last round trip from there to Wrexham General, no ticket checks were made and so I feel somewhat awkward not having had the opportunity to pay them for the fantastic service.

Yup. I was speaking to a lass on Thursday who's only the previous day just bought her tickets from Shrewsbury - London for the next 10 weeks (3 times a week I think she said) - and also said she wasn't looking forward to Pendolinos again!


Online was removed sometime on Wednesday after the press release came out.

It was unfortunate that it was quite so sudden.  The woman Chris was talking to must feel slightly peeved to say the least!  My parents were looking forward to a trip to Shrewsbury in the spring and could well have brought that forward if a couple of weeks notice had been given.  One of the obvious disadvantages of an Open Access operator.

The failure to achieve the projected numbers in the business plan is an interesting one; certainly the population around Wrexham and Shrewsbury seemed to recognise the benefits of the service in getting them cheaply to London and without changing trains. The recession probably meant that there just weren^t enough of these dedicated travellers.
The onboard service seemed faultless and always seemed to gain plaudits both from the travellers and press, so often we hear that the key to long term business success is service and delighting the customer, WSMR certainly did this.
From their rolling stock which while late arriving must rate as some of the best stock around today, wonderful onboard service, e-Ticketing and their desire to operate rail services when others would resort to the dreaded rail replacement bus I cannot speak highly enough of the company and every member of staff I met over the years.

Failing to successfully challenge the Virgin Trains objection at Wolverhampton is perhaps the biggest component of the failure from my viewpoint, I don't understand why WSMR were unsuccessful in that the service could easily have been viewed as a replacement for the Wolverhampton-Paddington services which came about in the programme to modernise Cross Country.

While the Southbound morning and northbound evening services did seem to attract custom the other services always seemed empty in comparison, I^m sure this influenced the choice to withdraw the third set and switch to the final timetable in recent months.
It is noticeable that when visiting Kings Cross there are adverts from Grand Central promoting northbound journeys, admittedly primarily for the tourist market on their non-stop service to York.
Latterly the most recent timetable really removed the potential for business meetings in all but Telford and then only if limited in time, perhaps it was a cut too far.

I^m certain employers in the Telford and Shrewsbury area were told of the benefits of the direct service to London but few if any probably made the connection to tell their Berkshire, Hampshire or London offices of the availability of the service in the other direction.
Having worked for a company in Reading that had offices in Telford and Cosford I tried to get the message through but fell flat and didn^t receive support from WSMR, it is a shame because the connection from Reading at Banbury was a very easy one and thanks to Cross Country running every thirty minutes on the route without great risk of delay.
Coupled with faster connecting services to the commercial centres at Shrewsbury and Telford it was difficult to recognise the service existed. In all the timetables there always seemed to be good connections from Reading, Oxford and points on the Chiltern Line there were no discounted through fares to tempt custom onto WSMR.
As knowledgeable railway users we know we could do split ticketing to join WSMR but many potential customers would not have had a clue that the through fare they are quoted is not the cheapest. It seems a shame that a deal was not done with Cross Country or Chiltern to provide the business and leisure travellers with access to the WSMR services at a reasonable ticket price, hopefully in future rather than barriers being put in place we might see franchise operators cooperating as the new operators pass customers onto the existing operators.



I guess the desire for so many open access operators will be access to the regions-London market however it seems they will be subject to the same pressures as WSMR, I seem to recall there were even proposals in the very early days from people wanting to operate from the Great Western region. Perhaps the likes of GoCo thinking about routes that are less focussed on a single flow of traffic will be more successful especially if we see fewer objections to the competition they do bring between selected points.
It might be interesting to look in a few months time to see if part of the long term impact of WSMR is that the number of passengers from Shrewsbury/Telford etc. to London remains higher than would be otherwise expected as the passengers introduced by WSMR continue to want the benefits brought by rail travel.

Following the release of one LHCS set to Chiltern at the timetable change, there will now be two seven coach sets from Monday. All standard class sadly, hopefully the buffet cars might find use somewhere.
Perhaps the opportunity cost was in DB's minds as by moving the stock from WSMR to Chiltern they have released so quickly.

The question remains as to what will become of the facilities at Wrexham General, I saw an article talking about ^1M having been invested, I hope some practical use can be found for the facility.

But as with so many of the customers over the year my thoughts are with the staff from WSMR.

Gosh,. I sincerely hope you are right - I'm one of the displaced 1830-ites that isn't looking forward to a squash on a 3car Clubman at 1833.....
However, I was talking to Director-level Chiltern staff only yesterday afternoon, and their take on the 1833 then was to 'suck it and see'.....wait & see how pax balanced out across their services, while adding a single coach to their 1633 LHCS service.

WE argued stronly in favour of your suggestion above - I hope you're right.
 All standard class sadly, hopefully the buffet cars might find use somewhere.
Perhaps the opportunity cost was in DB's minds as by moving the stock from WSMR to Chiltern they have released so quickly.

The question remains as to what will become of the facilities at Wrexham General, I saw an article talking about ^1M having been invested, I hope some practical use can be found for the facility.

But as with so many of the customers over the year my thoughts are with the staff from WSMR.
[/quote]

Wolverhampton perhaps wouldn't be mentioned because the calls were set down only in the up direction and vice versa, so anyone with a ticket from Wolverhampton itself to the south (and vice versa) shouldn't be inconvenienced...

Paul

My interpretation is that for XC to accept any tickets that were not WSMR Trains Only, then the original routing and validity would apply, i.e. any tickets routed via High Wycombe should still be used to travel over that route (makes sense as FGW are not accepting them for travel RDG-PAD). For those holding WSMR only tickets and still wishing to arrive into MYB without a walk across city in Birmingham, XC will accept tickets for a same platform connection at LMS and BAN.

Briefing email is as follows:
From: XC Control [Customer Support]
Sent: Fri Jan 28 15:23:27 2011
Subject: Wrexham & Shropshire [NEW]

Wrexham & Shropshire

The Wrexham & Shropshire train company will cease operations on Friday 28th January 2011.

The last train to depart will be the 1830 train from London Marylebone to Wrexham General on Friday 28th January 2011.

From Saturday 29th January, all Wrexham & Shropshire tickets that have already been purchased will be valid on all reasonable alternative routes operated by Arriva Trains Wales, into London Euston by London Midland and Virgin Trains, and to London Marylebone by Chiltern Railways.

Please allow any customers who are in possession of WSMR tickets to travel on our services on affected routes.

Not much chance of that, as ATW have Chester depot just up the line.

I wonder whether there was any claw-back written into the grant paid by the Welsh Assembly Government if closure was quick?

Looks like  ATW are to  use some of the WSMR stock to work on their  WAG express contracts. Also it has been noted that the lack of WSMR trains means that there are spare paths for the WAG services through Wrexham.

Now all we need is for these services to stop at Hereford

In England, on a WAG Express? Are you kidding?

That does appear to be the rumour flying around on other forums. DB pulling a loss making service in preference of a heavily subsidised service. ATW will now be able to use 3 ex-WSMR sets on their (from May) two WAG Express services. With the DVTs they can reverse at Chester and add that Wrekham call that various North Wales AM's have been calling for.

Just to clarify....this is only rumour with one poster on RailUK Forums stating that the information came from an 'impeccable' source. Despite that, tis still only rumour.

They're probably picking it up from the ukr newsgroup, where it's been discussed at length - but again, it's supposition / rumour...

The only stupid thing i have found with the WAG express is that there is no service going from Cardiff to North wales in the morning, although there were plans for such a thing at 1 time. Pity as it would be nice to go to north wales on a loco hauled train and spend a day there before coming back in the evening.

 Maybe ATW should make more use out of the loco hauled sets asnd perhaps use them to displace some of the class 175's to boost capacity on the Milford Haven - Manchester services

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-12373894):

With not enough passenger numbers, it should conclude

I see the Wrexham and Shropshire Web site has (recently) been closed down.

I suspect the web hosting contract long outlasted the OA train operation.

Whois.com show that the domain registration expired on 27th July 2012 and that the registration has been suspended.

From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-24827337?):

An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-26344873):

And it was the ORR that said 'no' last time....without disturbing Virgin's other paths

The difference this time is that these are to be extensions of existing Birmingham services, being xx23 off Euston.  So there is now no fundamental change to WCML paths.  The previous plan was for additional trains to/from Euston, the down trains were supposed to run in the currently spare xx33 paths.

Paul

Good to hear this.

An update, from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-shropshire-31566632):