Great Western Coffee Shop

Waiting in the dark there tonight I realised that there aren't any signals - spoke to the Station manageress who confirmed there are non and that their controlling signalbox is at Lostwithiel (he must get lonely.
 

Hi there,

Lostwithiel does take care of Bodmin Parkway via our little panel. The signals are a few miles away.

(http://images.fotopic.net/yw9d24.jpg)

The ground frame is electronically released by this Panel.

Excellent - being just a passenger what's a ground frame ?
Also why are there none of those home/starter signals , are drivers cleared to go by radio or in cab signalling ?
Also do you know why there's work going on between Gwinear road and Hayle - wondering if and extra signalling block is being added - would help with connections at St Erth.

Thanks.

A ground frame is a set of lever(s) out on location near a set of points. These are worked by staff on the ground (sometimes traincrew). They are normally released by the signalbox (as at Bodmin) or by a staff or key (Falmouth or Coombe on the Looe line).

I'm not aware of any signalling improvements between Gwinear & Hayle. It could be cable work of some sort. There is a scheme in the pipeline for the small user crossings at Trenowin to receive red / green lights  - but dont know if this is progressing at the moment.

The line between Lostwitiel & Paddington (!) is controlled under the Track Circuit Block system. Only stop signals are provided where appropriate - no homes / starters etc... The red lights on the panel show the progress of the train. Only one train in a section at once. So a long section from the golf course at Lostwithiel to Largin single line.

Not wishing to tread on your toes, winterbourne (particularly as you have such an absolutely brilliant selection of railway related photos on your website, ;D ) but may I just offer this, as an illustration: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lever_frame#Ground_frames

C.  ;) :D ;D

Not strictly related but I know they have an old fashioned style signal at Liskeard, with, (if I remember correctly) a 3 Aspect signal just before the tall bridge heading for Plymouth about 400 yards afterwards the old style signal.

They have a signal box at Liskeard as well ;D

Do you mean the upside down back to front one that looks like someone sawed the bottom off a door painted it shortened it hung it off a strange gantry and called it a semaphore - that one  ::)
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/158066583_9bd05dfc57.jpg?v=0 (http://farm1.static.flickr.com/51/158066583_9bd05dfc57.jpg?v=0)

I have often thought that in most places the most logical place for a signal is at the end of a station platform this has the advantage if a  train has to stop either if the line ahead is occupied or in an emergency it will be by a platfrom so if necessary passengers can be evacuated. It's also a logical place for a driver to look out for a signal. Not in the middle of the countryside.

I know that it is current practice to site MAS signals at even intervals thus you get the absudity of several banner reapers on the Down Main out of Paddington. The most obvious one being at the London end of Ealing Broadway Down main Platform with the signal a 100yds beyond the station bridge. I'm sure with a little jiggling the signal could be put at the end of the down Main platfrom and other siganls moved to eliminate  the other banner reapeaters.

As Lostwithial to through Bodmin Parway is track circuited it would appear logical to have signals at he paltform ends and move other signals this would give more sections and less delays clearing teh single line sections. But it's only money, so won't happen

 

If only !

Infuriating to leave Plymouth 1/2 hour behind a down HST that stops everywhere and picks up small delays with door closing which can leave you behind in these long sections in Cornwall losing more and more time only to reach St Erth and the branch has gone.

 

I think they've changed it since that photo was taken, but it looked very similar to that :)

Although it's a double gantry signal, which the one at Liskeard isn't, it looks similar to this from memory :)

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/d/d9/Lower_Signal_1.jpg)

I'm pleased to say Liskeard still has that same signal!

Its worth noting that all "panel" signals visible to signallers are either on/off (red/green) so regardless of whether it shows yellow/double yellow it will be green. Not that there is any 4 aspect signalling in Cornwall.

I've got a feeling IECCs maybe different, perhaps winterbourne can clarifiy judging by the fact that he has experience at Swindon.

For loadsa pictures of proper signals have a look at Adrian the Rock's website (http://www.roscalen.com/signals/index.htm).

Indeed: it's evident here - http://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/5329002.jpg  ;)

Thats the signal ;D I used to live near there, I took the train to plymouth most weekends :) was good fun.

You can just make out the 3 Aspect Signal I mentioned in the photograph, look for a red dot just after the bend :)

Hello

The colour light at Liskeard (LD4) is a two aspect stop signal. The next signal is the repeater for the signal at St Germans on the Up line - so it has no yellow aspect.

IECC's do show the Signaller the exact aspect shown. Great fun - ground signals / flashing aspects  n'all. Older style boxes and panel do show a red / green - regardless of whether the main aspect has cleared or the dots (subsidiary aspects).

LD3 the up signal on the bracket is an absolute gem, unique to Cornwall. There are similar ones at Shrewsbury & Droitwich, but not on such elaborate posts.

Pah!

Far too much lower quadrant rubbish in there  ;)
For the uninitiated, lower quadrants are the ones that drop down to show "off", as opposed to upper quadrants which go up. As ever the GWR went its own sweet way with these things (along with other peculiarities such as using a standard of 25 inHg for vacuum brakes on its trains when the rest of the country used 21 inHg, head and tail lamps with the bracket on the side instead of the back, and they even took a lot of persuasion to adopt the same gauge as everyone else!) and used lower quadrants right up until the bitter end at nationalization (and BR(W) continued with them). The other three companies, particularly the LNER, had changed to upper quadrants.

The GW lower quadrant signal arms at Yeovil Pen Mill were replaced upper quadrants by Network Rail recently. They do look a bit odd...
http://philmason.fotopic.net/p53203323.html (http://philmason.fotopic.net/p53203323.html)

If it is a repeater then it must have a yellow aspect.  Unless it is a banner repeater.  Colour light repeaters will be Green / Yellow.

Fair enough, I might have been thinking of somewhere else then :P my apologies for the confusion :)

Oh no Yeovil ruined.  :o Same fate as East Usk years ago. Just as long as the rot doesn't extend into Cornwall. We'll be on the border armed with pitchforks & hot oil!

The LNER realized that upper quadrants were the true way 80 years ago...you could think of it as an upgrade  ;) :D

Apparently at Shrewsbury they've recently replaced some upper quadrant signals on the line from Crewe (ex LMS) with lowere quadrants because the total number of lower quadrant signals in the Shrewsbury is greater than the number of upper quadrant. Not sure i understand the logic but it but it came from a reliable source.

I think there was a chap called Pythagoras, many years ago, who also summed that up quite neatly?  ::)  ;D

Why are there no semaphore distant signals in Cornwall?

I don't know the answer for definite, but I can have a guess.

In the old semaphore system of signalling, in many respects the distant was much the more important signal for the driver to see (if he missed the distant at caution, by the time he saw a stop signal "on" it was waayyy too late to stop!)

Semaphore distants had a couple of disadvantages: firstly there was usually about 1 - 2 miles of wire running between signal box and signal post, making a very heavy "pull" for the signalman. More importantly, in fog (and before the days of AWS/TPWS) they had to be "manned": the local track gang would be called out and stand by the signal showing a yellow or green handlamp, and clipping a detonator to the rail when the signal was at caution. The combination of ear-splitting bang from the det and a yellow light made sure the driver could not miss a signal. Incidentally, even though the GWR had long ago installed an in-cab warning system at distant signals (ATC) they still used fogmen (see for example Signalman's Twilight by Adrian Vaughan).

Colour light distants did away with both these problems, being much more visible in fog. The distant levers in signal boxes became nothing more than electrical switches and actually had their handles cut down to prevent the signalman forgetting himself and yanking them over with a mighty heave! BR Western was installing colour light distants in semaphore areas (but leaving the semaphore stop signals) in the 1960s, which I would guess is why there are very few (or even no...?) semaphore distants left.

One of the numerous wastes singling the line West of Salisbury was that the Southern Region Signal Engineer had been busily installing colour light distant signals at most boxes on the route during the previous 5 years. The reasons as per inspector_blakey post. One thing he didn't mention was if there were no fogmen available the signalman had to work double block. So he could not accept a train from the box in the rear until he had received the Train out of Section from the box ahead rather than accepting it when his clearing point had been passed by the  previous train. Thus if a train missed the distant signal and passed one or more of the stop signals at danger the section into which the train ran would be clear.

One of the jobs I had was helping the Special A amend the signal box instructions for any box with a colour light distant signal. Although the General Rules did away with fogsignalling and use of fogmen when a colour light distant was installed there was an exception.

It's imprinted as I read so many times.

"During fog or falling snow when single line working is in operation on the Down/UP line between A and B fog working must be introduced."

This was because the distant signal was focussed for right line running if the train was on the wrong line and it was foggy there could be the chance of the driver missing it plus the AWS ramp would not be there.

Overcautious? Very unlikely to happen, yes, but it was there just in case. So that should the need arise single line working could be introduced during fog or falling snow the signalman would know whether the fogmen were in positon or whether he had to work double block.

Then the rules and regulations were designed to keep the job moving (safely) not like today when at  slightest sign of trouble it's "Stop the Job" whilst we work out what to do.

This is interesting stuff. We do have two semaphore distants in Cornwall - alas they are fixed ones underneath section signals for the next box. One at Par, one at St Blazey.

47704 at St Blazey. The section signal sharing a post with Par's distant is visible.
(http://images.fotopic.net/y7a49f.jpg)

Short section applies here, & the fogmen rules are long gone.

Are they ever going to replace the remaining semaphores in Cornwall and install track circuit block west of Truro?