Title: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: John R on December 23, 2008, 20:33:53 Having spied a rather immaculate looking but empty HST in the through roads at BTM this evening, I speculated why, and looked at the service alterations on the XC website.
18:00 Bristol Temple Meads to Manchester Piccadilly due 21:00 This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street.It will no longer call at: Wolverhampton, Stoke-On-Trent and Manchester Piccadilly.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable. 18:45 Bournemouth to Manchester Piccadilly due 23:40 This train is being delayed.This train will be started from Birmingham New Street.It will no longer call at: Bournemouth, Brockenhurst, Southampton Central, Southampton Airport Parkwy, Winchester, Basingstoke, Reading, Oxford, Banbury, Leamington Spa, Coventry and Birmingham International.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable. 17:21 Plymouth to Leeds due 23:31 This train will be started from Bristol Temple Meads.It will no longer call at: Plymouth, Totnes, Newton Abbot, Exeter St Davids, Tiverton Parkway and Taunton.This is due to an earlier train fault. 18:40 Reading to York due 22:58 This train has now departed from Reading and is now 18 minutes late.This is due to a broken down train. 13:21 Plymouth to Edinburgh due 22:22 This train is being delayed at Bristol Temple Meads and is expected to be 60 minutes late from Bristol Temple Meads.This is due to waiting for a train crew member. 16:25 Plymouth to Leeds due 22:09 This train has been delayed at Exeter St Davids and is now 23 minutes late from Exeter St Davids.This is due to waiting for a train crew member. 18:25 Plymouth to Birmingham New Street due 22:06 This train has been delayed at Plymouth and is now 25 minutes late.This is due to a delay on a previous journey. 16:40 Reading to Newcastle due 22:00 This train will be terminated at Birmingham New Street.It will no longer call at: Derby, Chesterfield, Sheffield, Doncaster, York, Darlington, Durham, Chester-Le-Street and Newcastle.This is due to a member of train crew being unavailable. So on one of the busiest evenings of the year, XC can't roster enough staff to provide a decent service. Still not sure why the HST was empty at Bristol though. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: IndustryInsider on December 23, 2008, 21:09:41 I'm actually quite surprised how well FGW have coped so far this Christmas with traincrew resourcing. I'd have thought the driver shortages would have had more of an effect.
Having been keeping an eye on the service in and out of Euston since the VHF service was launched, it appears that London Midland's cancellation rate has been pretty woeful all week. Virgin's seems to be pretty good, though punctuality has been quite poor on a few days. Hopefully things on both fronts will improve when the timetable beds in after the New Year? Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: John R on December 23, 2008, 21:20:31 Looking elsewhere, I've partly answered my own question. There were some fairly sick XC HSTs today, with the SB Dundee-Plymouth 3 hours late when it was caped at Bristol, and a northbound one also terminated at Bristol(?) as it was unlikely to get over the Lickey.
Which is either just unlucky, or maybe they are being pushed too hard with the new TT. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Super Guard on December 23, 2008, 22:20:43 Every XC HST seems to have full throttled applied as soon as the breaks are off, whereas FGW ones seem to gently accelerate on the whole, whether that makes any difference to the engines or not I have no idea.
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Btline on December 23, 2008, 22:53:51 Perhaps they are running to Voyager timetables, requiring harsh acceleration.
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: 12hoursunday on December 24, 2008, 02:41:25 I'm actually quite surprised how well FGW have coped so far this Christmas with traincrew resourcing. I'd have thought the driver shortages would have had more of an effect. That's because there is not much of a driver shortage anymore. Not in Bristol anyway. Rest Day work is still upon us but in no way as much as in the past. Most turns are covered. However there a few A/L days declined on Christmas Eve and on Saturday (of which I am one). Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Electric train on December 24, 2008, 08:48:53 Every XC HST seems to have full throttled applied as soon as the breaks are off, whereas FGW ones seem to gently accelerate on the whole, whether that makes any difference to the engines or not I have no idea. Have the XC HST's been re-engined? I know the Paxman engines could not handle the traction duty cycle hence leading to a lot of failures. Do XC HST's have both power car engines running in normal service or has XC instructed that only one engine is used. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: 12hoursunday on December 24, 2008, 09:07:18 Do XC HST's have both power car engines running in normal service or has XC instructed that only one engine is used. Why would they do this? There is no incentive do in so! Using a single power car to do all the work when two are available has no financial or mechanical benifits whatsoever. For a start there is hardly, if any saving of fuel as the the power car doing all the work uses twice as much. Every XC HST seems to have full throttled applied as soon as the breaks are off, whereas FGW ones seem to gently accelerate on the whole, whether that makes any difference to the engines or not I have no idea. Always been the same those Cross Country drivers. Maxing the power gives no greater acceleration as the engines are fitted with goveners. Great Western drivers also have an instruction not to engage full power until the rear of the train has left the platform. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: G.Uard on December 24, 2008, 09:39:45 Is the (naturally) superior driving technique of the GW crews the result of the longest experience with these trains? ;D
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Don on December 24, 2008, 11:54:40 Is the (naturally) superior driving technique of the GW crews the result of the longest experience with these trains? ;D I am inclined to agree with the above. XC HSTs are re-engined; and do have both power cars running; but are accelerating quickly because they are trying to run to Voyager timetables. However they are one coach shorter to make this easier for them (no buffet car). I do not think that XC HSTs are being used more intensively than FGW or working harder, so my guess is either a lack of maintenance standards - perhaps XC have not moved high enough up the learning curve on maintenance knowledge or the above quote could well be correct. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: eightf48544 on December 24, 2008, 13:19:35 Roger Ford's annual tables of performance for different classes of train have just been published in January's Modern Railways.
FGW HSTs period 7 moving average 2008/9 = 11,501 miles 2007 = 9624 XC HSTs period 7 " " " = 9,623 2007 = N/A Best overall IC is ECML with 24,317. Could it be that loco and coaches gives better performance? Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: John R on December 24, 2008, 13:42:32 and digressing slightly, guess which TOC is down the bottom of the league for its DMU reliability?
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Electric train on December 24, 2008, 14:30:21 Roger Ford's annual tables of performance for different classes of train have just been published in January's Modern Railways. To compare and electric traction unit against a diesel traction unit is not a fair comparison. electric traction units have far less moving parts than diesels therefore require less maintenance and the maintenance is of a short duration. An industry study has recently been done to compare the reliability of an electrified railway compared to a non electrified railway, because of the perception that OHLE is unreliable I don't have the figures to hand but it came out that electric traction failure and maintenance rates per Km was far lower than diesel even though the infrastructure requires a higher level of maintenance this is more than compensated for by the very much lower maintenance and failure rates of electric traction units.FGW HSTs period 7 moving average 2008/9 = 11,501 miles 2007 = 9624 XC HSTs period 7 " " " = 9,623 2007 = N/A Best overall IC is ECML with 24,317. Could it be that loco and coaches gives better performance? Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Super Guard on December 24, 2008, 14:52:03 Always been the same those Cross Country drivers. Maxing the power gives no greater acceleration as the engines are fitted with goveners. Great Western drivers also have an instruction not to engage full power until the rear of the train has left the platform. I know at least 2 GW drivers that obviously haven't read that instruction... I doubt there is time for the TM to do the 2/2/2 buzz sequence before the train is over Cowley Bridge ;D Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: devon_metro on December 24, 2008, 15:14:48 I find most drivers boring, albeit doing their job ;)
XC are known to open up quite quickly, normally as they are late :D Worth noting that the XC hSTs aren't running to Voyager timings ;) Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: devon_metro on December 24, 2008, 15:20:28 Today was the turn for the 0608 Edinburgh Plymouth to fail at Totnes. What a farce XC are becoming!
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Btline on December 24, 2008, 15:24:20 How much more time is added to HST schedules?
It would be better for XC to cut some stops to compensate. And surely XC staff know how to run HSTs, its only been a few years since Virgin got rid! Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: devon_metro on December 24, 2008, 15:28:04 How much more time is added to HST schedules? It would be better for XC to cut some stops to compensate. And surely XC staff know how to run HSTs, its only been a few years since Virgin got rid! Exeter - Plymouth gets 4 minutes extra running time Cutting stops would not be good! The sets probably don't get much quality time on depot and so can't afford to be driven aggressivly, although due to the hopeless mess and congestion on the railways they simple can't keep up as they loose times at every possible location of conflict. You should see the early running towards Bristol on the up trains, they could easily keep to Voyager timings! Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Electric train on December 24, 2008, 16:02:22 And surely XC staff know how to run HSTs, its only been a few years since Virgin got rid! Who's were these HST before XC started to reuse them, have they been maintained correctly in the last few months by the previous user or have they been in storage where they would have been left to almost rot for a year or two which is what had happened to the HST's Grand Central aquiredTitle: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Steve44 on December 24, 2008, 17:01:09 and digressing slightly, guess which TOC is down the bottom of the league for its DMU reliability? XC? :P everytime i check the live updates on their site, at least 2 or 3 cancellations/delays are due to train faults on the Cardiff-nottingham/birmingham-leicester/stansted airport. Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: vacman on December 24, 2008, 23:20:26 And surely XC staff know how to run HSTs, its only been a few years since Virgin got rid! Who's were these HST before XC started to reuse them, have they been maintained correctly in the last few months by the previous user or have they been in storage where they would have been left to almost rot for a year or two which is what had happened to the HST's Grand Central aquiredTitle: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: eightf48544 on December 26, 2008, 10:36:38 Roger Ford's annual tables of performance for different classes of train have just been published in January's Modern Railways. To compare and electric traction unit against a diesel traction unit is not a fair comparison. electric traction units have far less moving parts than diesels therefore require less maintenance and the maintenance is of a short duration. An industry study has recently been done to compare the reliability of an electrified railway compared to a non electrified railway, because of the perception that OHLE is unreliable I don't have the figures to hand but it came out that electric traction failure and maintenance rates per Km was far lower than diesel even though the infrastructure requires a higher level of maintenance this is more than compensated for by the very much lower maintenance and failure rates of electric traction units.FGW HSTs period 7 moving average 2008/9 = 11,501 miles 2007 = 9624 XC HSTs period 7 " " " = 9,623 2007 = N/A Best overall IC is ECML with 24,317. Could it be that loco and coaches gives better performance? Excellent that's exactly why I put the IC 225s in as a comparison. When can you start slinging the wires? As an aside it seems interesting that the ECML doesn't seem to be having as much OHLE trouble now the Eurostars aren't running. Something about higher pan pressure? Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: smokey on December 26, 2008, 11:14:37 Now IIRC FGW had problems with their HST's after Refurbishment, so it's not surprising XC are having some troubles.
Title: Re: Merry Xmas from Cross Country Post by: Electric train on December 26, 2008, 19:28:56 Roger Ford's annual tables of performance for different classes of train have just been published in January's Modern Railways. To compare and electric traction unit against a diesel traction unit is not a fair comparison. electric traction units have far less moving parts than diesels therefore require less maintenance and the maintenance is of a short duration. An industry study has recently been done to compare the reliability of an electrified railway compared to a non electrified railway, because of the perception that OHLE is unreliable I don't have the figures to hand but it came out that electric traction failure and maintenance rates per Km was far lower than diesel even though the infrastructure requires a higher level of maintenance this is more than compensated for by the very much lower maintenance and failure rates of electric traction units.FGW HSTs period 7 moving average 2008/9 = 11,501 miles 2007 = 9624 XC HSTs period 7 " " " = 9,623 2007 = N/A Best overall IC is ECML with 24,317. Could it be that loco and coaches gives better performance? Excellent that's exactly why I put the IC 225s in as a comparison. When can you start slinging the wires? As an aside it seems interesting that the ECML doesn't seem to be having as much OHLE trouble now the Eurostars aren't running. Something about higher pan pressure? The pans on Eurostars were designed to run predominately in France so the pan pressure could be higher, also the French rail system uses copper contacts on their pans were as we use carbon in the UK. As for stringing the wires up comes down to money and time, the big OHLE projects currently are Liverpool St to Shenfield to replace some equipment that was erected before WW2 that was converted to 25 kV also ECML is being refurbished and there is work to do on parts of the WCML in and around Brum, Manchester Liverpool etc. Money is not the only scares resource designers and construction staff are in short supply the 10 years post privatisation decimated the resource we had in the UK This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |