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In the new timetable, there is an increase in the number of trains operated by Thames Turbos.

Why is this? They are unsuitable for long distances! What about this extra HST that is meant to be coming?

Which trains are you referring to.  I notice the last train to Worcester is now an HST instead of a turbo.

There are several in the middle of the day - look at the codes at the top of the columns.

Just checked. In the current timetable there are turbos from london to oxford at 0821, 1421, 2051, 2121, 2148.  In the new timetable they are at 0921, 1250, 1421, 1450, 2051, 2148.

I suspect the extra ones during the day are to cater for the longer layover times for trains running to and from Worcester and Hereford.  Particularly the late morning return to hereford which previously had about 15 minutes at Hereford and was always terminating at Ledbury. now leaves at 1021 and has 90 minutes at Hereford.

Seems sensible to me - Turbos are fine for fast trips to Oxford as the journey only 60 minutes or so. Its logical for the HSTs to be used on the longer services and leave the lightly loaded Oxford fasts for Turbos. I'm sure that these journeys in the middle of the day are fairly lightly loaded.

The 21:48 from Paddington is to be a HST. I wouldn't say there is a great increase in the use of turbos, but there is a slight increase. Their greater flexibility in terms of operation makes them more suitable for certain Cotswold Line services than HST's - though the facilities are not as good for the customer, with 1st Class comparing very badly. Adelante's remain suitable for certain services too, so when (if!) they go it will be interesting to see what replaces them, HST's or Turbos?

Remember, some of these might be Adelantes ;)

Hopefully! ;D

The thing is, putting Turbos onto the lightly used trains will only dissaude further passengers.

And if the trains are empty North of Oxford, why not have Advance fares/ Super Off peak fares?

The extra HST is only a replacement for the last three Adelantes, not an extra set.

As for more Turbo duties during the daytime, there is just one in place of an HST to Worcester and Malvern, the 09.21 from London and 14.34 return. And this is balanced out, as Industry Insider said, by the 21.48 becoming an HST to get the set to Worcester to work the new 05.02 departure to London.

The 14.21 to Moreton and 16.14 back to Oxford is an additional service, provided by extending beyond Oxford a train that was already a Turbo in the May to December timetable. This train gives Moreton (and Kingham and Charlbury) a taste of what might be to come if the suggestions of a Moreton to south of Oxford shuttle come true, with a spread of southbound departures at 15.43, 16.14 (Turbo, to Oxford) and 16.51.

There is also the new 05.37 from Moreton to Worcester, to position the two-car Turbo to work the halts train back to Oxford, replacing the former 06.08 from Evesham. Just a pity tight pathing means it can't call at Honeybourne, as it runs Moreton-Evesham in between the first two southbound HSTs.

Unlikely that Adelantes will appear, as these duties will be part of regular Turbo diagrams.

As for advance fares, they still need to make seats available for the leg of the journey between London and Oxford, so filling all the seats on three-car Turbos with passengers from further west would be a bit silly.

I really don't see how they will dissuade passengers. A lightly-loaded Turbo west of Oxford is a perfectly pleasant way to travel, unless, perhaps, you're going all the way to Hereford. It's when a Turbo appears on Cotswold peak duties that they put off passengers. Judging by low passenger numbers beyond Oxford on the 17.51 earlier this week when it was Turboed two days running, I think a lot of people took one look at the overcrowding at Paddington and waited for the 18.21.

How about cheaper fares North of Oxford only?

The shuttle would be good, as it would allow the halts and Hanborough to be served without stopping as many Hereford / Worcester trains, reducing overcrowding for BOTH sets of passengers, and pleasing both.

And I think that Turbos do put people off, although they are perfectly bearable on non crowded services.

But as I've said before in various threads, the Hanborough and Charlbury stops in the longer-distance trains will be staying, because of the number of people travelling in the peaks from these places to Reading and London and back, traffic that has built up due to through services.

While Hanborough station may look like a glorified halt, it is a railhead for a large area north and west of Oxford - and far more accessible than Oxford station, which is why people use it. Having to change trains 10 minutes after they've set off or just 10 minutes from home on the way back isn't likely to be very pleasing for commuters from Hanborough and FGW will want to keep them happy and keep them using its trains.

As the initial post about a shuttle service said, the apparent key aim is to generate more local traffic and to try to persuade people travelling into Oxford not to use their cars. A half-hourly service would spread out the peak loadings between Oxford, Hanborough and Charlbury, in particular, which will help ease pressure on the long-distance trains, but I don't imagine it is intended as a substitute for existing stops by the London trains.



As I said, because the Cotswold Line trains have to serve two markets - you can't fill up a train with passengers going beyond Oxford on cheap tickets when it's also providing part of the half-hourly service between London and Oxford, so must have space available for passengers making that journey as well. This was the reason for Turbos and then Adelantes getting the push from the route - they don't have the capacity to cope with demand from both these flows much of the day.

The result is, of course, that HSTs run with empty seats past Oxford, but that can't be helped, unless you're going to try to drive up journeys ending and starting at Oxford, which a shuttle may be intended to stimulate.

For cheaper off-peak local journeys between Oxford and Worcester there is of course the Cotswold Line railcard. It is to be hoped that if the shuttle does materialise, it will be heavily promoted in conjunction with this railcard.

As of tomorrow, the 1751 PAD-WOS will be an Adelante

Is that the only 180 service on the route?

Bad choice IMO, as that train must be busy, and needs more than a 180 (unless it is double).

Good point.

One assumes that the train planners have got this right and have several other services leaving for Oxford just before and just after 1751. 

But we will all have to keep an eye on the loadings and see how it pans out.

(One day I'll get to ride on an Adelante (probably in the North East somewhere))

1121 to GMV

As ever when Adelanted, the 17.51 arrived Oxford with every standard seat taken, plenty of seats beyond.

Thing is this was a Monday night in December, ie not the busiest of times. This is a very difficult train to cover. It runs amid three HSTs (17.22, 18.22 and 19.22) which are going all the way to Hereford, so capacity west of Oxford isn't an issue, but is a very important service for people heading home from London to Oxford and that extra TSO in an HST, plus high-capacity seating, comes in very handy on the busy nights. It won't be fun next Wednesday! I'm assuming an HST will return once the extra 125 is available from the spring.

A few more services appear to have been switched to Turbo operation over the last couple of weeks - the 06:21 from Reading (07:03 at Hanborough) - and the 18:47 from Charlbury (19:26 at Reading).

The first of these is no issue (it normally carries about 10 passengers, if that), but the return journey ain't much fun after Oxford...