Great Western Coffee Shop

For the full article, see http://www.thisisbath.co.uk/news/Return-ticket-Bath-Yorkshire-cost-327/article-488104-detail/article.html

I like the way everyone who's commented is comparing it to air travel, so you could fly to America for less than that? what, by just turning up at the airport on the day???? I doubt it! mind you, it is a rip off fare!

Or avoiding London only ^170.

yeh but hes just really stupid do you go out and buy a tv without looking into it?? for the price he paid he could have bought a 7 day all network rover ticket........

sorry hes just dumb and can you get a railcard at the station that would have been an amazing saving!

I find that most people do not play around with fares at all to make them cheaper. They just take the first one they are given.

Probably because they do not use NXEC's website which is by far the best website.

They don't realise that NX is a TOC, and even if they do, they assume they can only book ECML tickets on their website.

BBC News video report, including coverage of the ^327 ticket story, and future fare increases, with quotes from MTLS and FGW: see http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/7742531.stm

The fare is set by National Express East Coast - NOT FGW

arggg

Are MTLS THICK?

FGW has to pay money to the corrupt Government. Do something useless and complain to the DAFT rather than moaning.

Why would you ever want to go Northallerton via London, unless of course you want to do a spot of sightseeing en route.
Mr Mayall has only himself to blame for this one, a few minuites spent on his computer researching the options and a couple of thought out questions whilst at the ticket office....,something like i need to travel to Northallerton today what are my journey and cost options....would have saved him a fortune.

Return from B Parkway appears to be <^100, even first thing in the morning. 

To be fair to Mr Mayall, it does seem he was a businessman travelling out of necessity during the peak time, and if you plug "Bath Spa to Northallerton on a weekday after 8am with an open return" into the NXEC website you only get given 3 choices:

^135 if you travel out on the 09:13 or after (not an option here)
^327 standard class
^481 first class

So, yes, obviously, he could have saved himself money by doing some simple research - ask questions which, to most of us reading this, come as second nature.

I'm sure I'm not alone though in that when placed into a stressful situation, such as rushing to a loved one or striving to make an unanticipated appointment, there comes a point when you just decide to throw money at the problem, and bu**er the consequences. Jump in a taxi, get the first train that turns up, just do whatever you need to do to get there.

I get the impression this was an unplanned trip which had to be made at short notice, so I can quite see how a stressed person in a hurry could end up spending that sort of money. I'm not defending the person involved and I'm not defending the ticketing system which came up with that unholy sum, I'm simply saying I can see how it might have happened.

The difference here though is that having made that decision, I would never, ever dream of running to the press bleating about it afterwards. That's the part which really sticks in my throat. He made his own bed - he should lie on it quietly now and make damn sure he learns his lesson, and learns it well.

yes i agree! its like screaming out look i jumped before looking , see how stupid i am.... why go to the press with his own ignorence?

The wording [MTLS spokesman] of the video that's being referred to goes something like "In this time of recession when stock markets are falling and crashing all over the place, First seem to be making a decent profit. Obviously, they're making it at the traveller's expense."

Doing a few sums on the back of an envelope, First Great Western income seems to be roughly paid back out / assigned as follows:
One third - to Network Rail
One third - to RoSCos
One sixth - to the Government as payment for the franchise
One sixth - other operating costs (including staff) and any profit

The "one sixth to The Government" is indeed a 'killer' - 1.x billion pounds.  It's a figure that First elected to bid, though, so it's a moot point as to whether or not any "blame" should be pointed at:
* - the Government for milking the traveller
* - the Train Operating Company for putting in such a high bid
* - the traveller for complaining when at least (for the most part - TransWilts excepted!) he does have trains available more or less when he wants them

There seems to be a degree of criticism on this thread ... of travellers who haven't booked ahead / haven't found the lowest fare.   I'm not sure if such criticism is justified - after all, not everyone can be an expert in everything, and you need to be an expert in fares to get a decent priced ticket sometimes.

I have started a new thread on this ... see
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3918.0

NXEC must be enjoying this, groups such as MTLS saying FGW are money grabbing when they won't actually see much of the fare as they do not set it.

Whilst I understand your point Graham, I feel that anyone who courts publicity in the way that Mr Mayell did must do so in the knowledge that others may choose to criticise their comments. Yes, this group is probably better versed than the average person on fares, but I think most people know that the railway does operate (rightly or wrongly) a very complex fare structure. And so a little bit of due diligence is reasonable when undertaking an unfamiliar journey. All he had to do was phone NRES the day before, and then when quoted ^300+ ask "Is there anything cheaper".  That hardly requires you to be an expert, does it?   

I agree with John R.

If he had researched around (a trip to NXEC.com or a phone call) and STILL got a ridiculous fare - then go to the press.

NXEC even allow you to search through the slower routes - you can almost always lower the price. I lowered a fare to Bristol from ^30 to ^10 by doing this, and the ^10 ticket was actually more flexible!

I'd like to add, that I keep hearing about First Groups massive profits recently, but people forget that the increase is down to the profits from the US businesses that is acquired, rather than FGW ploughing millions into Firsts' coffers.... trust me - we'd all expect hefty pay rises otherwise  ;D

Btline, you mention that NXEC website is so "amazing" despite the fact that you can do everything you said there on the fgwtickets.co.uk website.

Am I right in thinking that NXEC get a share of money if you book any tickets through their website, if so i continue to support my local operator not someone in the east!

I think I'm right in saying that the fgwtickets.co.uk software is actually not run by FGW at all, but sublet to the ubiquitous thetrainline.com.

If that is indeed the case, then FGW will get exactly the same cut from each ticket sold there as they will from a ticket sold via NXEC. Possibly even less.

I thought I read somewhere that FGW get 9% of the ticket cost if it is booked through them rather than another operator?

The NXEC website is far superior to FGW's! :o

You can pick the fare you want, and then scroll through every journey option, which is valid for that fare, and look at all the prices and times.

Or you can select the service you want and see the fare. It is then very easy to switch services to see which fares are unlocked, and to shift along the times to get the fare down.

Also very easy to mix and match return, single, first and second tickets.

THIS CAN ALL BE DONE WITHOUT RELOADING THE PAGE. You can almost always get the fare down.

On Fgw, you only get to see about 4 trains, and their prices. So to check other times you have to click several links to get there.

FGW do not show "locked" fares, so you do not know that there is a cheaper option hiding!

And I don't care who get the cash. NX deserve it for such an excellent (award winning) system.

Oh - and with one click, you can add in the slower routes. Save more.

AND they have a "cheapest fare" calculator - difficult to describe well, try it - you'll see (v good for getting cheapest advance if you are flexible).

I have never looked back (unless I am wanting a GroupSave fare, or using a FGW discount code).

So: switch today, and save!

Visit http://nationalexpresseastcoast.com

Those people who are saying the chap was stupid to pay ^327 and that he could have travelled much cheaper if he had been smarter are absolutely right but they are also slightly missing the point.  If hardly anyone pays ^327 for that journey what does having such a high fare actually achieve other than generate bad press for the railway?  Given that so few people would actually be prepared to pay such a fare would lowering it in order to aviod bad publcity actually loose the operators any money

Out of interest I looked up the distance between Bath and Nothallerton by road which comes out at 258 miles one way or 516 return on Transport Direct. It also gave the direct fuel costs for a medium sized car as ^56 for which you could take another 3 people. No wonder he thought ^327 excessive.

However, if you look up the AA cost of motoring table:

http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/advice/advice_rcosts_petrol_table.jsp (http://www.theaa.com/allaboutcars/advice/advice_rcosts_petrol_table.jsp)

The cost of running a medium priced car for 10000 miles a year comes out at 62.25 pence per mile which makes the journey cost ^321 or ^6 less. So not so much difference.

However, the real problem with the rail fare is that it is the cost per passenger, but by car it's the cost per journey so 4 people could happily make the journey for ^80.25p each.

So it's a "problem" for the "bean counters" do you price the standard fare at around 60 pence per mile per passenger to equal the car and driver only cost, or do you do rail at  a quarter or 15 pence per mile to equal the cost of the journey by car with 4 people.

If we are to encourage people out of their cars then 15 pence per mile would be a sensible option and give the return fare in this case of ^77.4 per pasenger.

If it costs more than 15 pence per seat mile to run a train then maybe those are costs that should be looked at and the DfT should not expect to get such big returns from the TOCs.

I think my arithmatic is in the right range. Any thoughts on formulea for setting standard turn up and go anytime single/return fares.

Is the ^327 fare a regulated one?

No.  It is an unregulated anytime (open) fare.  the equivalent regulated fare would be the off-peak (saver) which I assume wasn't valid at the time he wanted to travel. 

As this ticket was via LONDON i thnik you may need to do a spot of recalculations , try nearer 700 miles return.......incidentally a Stnd anytime return from Bath Spa to Thurso via London is ^440

I have no reason to dispute the AA figures, but if you go to any fares for a journey they will almost mirror the given cost, spooky or what.

ok they are for individual journeys' but I bet that there are tickets available, 2 for 1 etc which will match a car load for the equivalent journey.

Following an email from a couple of friends regarding comments on this forum I thought I should sign up and try to clarify the situation.

Just for the record, I am the individual who paid ^327 for the ticket to Northallerton. I felt the need to try to try and redress the balance, as there was a little more to this story than was reported.

I should firstly tell you that my job does require a great deal of travelling, all of which is usually done by car. However on the 10th November at 8.30pm I received a call from the North Yorks Police requesting my assistance. I needed to be in Northallerton by 12.30 the next day. I went upstairs and packed my bags for the trip, and at 9.30 called my boss to ask if I could, on this occasion take a train as I had only just got back home after driving all the way back from Holyhead in North Wales. He approved the trip, and by this time it was 10.30. All I wanted to do by now was get my head down for some shut eye.

I got up at 4.30 the next day and made my way to Bath station hoping to get an early train out, I arrived at the station at 5.30 and asked the ticket attendant for a standard day return to Northallerton. When he informed me that it would cost ^327 I thought it must he must have made a mistake. He rechecked the price with a colleague and confirmed that that was the correct price. I informed him that I needed to be in Northalleton by 12.30 at the latest, and I asked for some cheaper alternative trains. I was informed by the ticket attendant that the only way that I could get to my destination by 12.30, was to take the London train, as neither the off peak train via London or the Bristol train which involved 4 changes could not get me there on time.

My situation by now is as follows. I am stuck at Bath Spa railway station with no computer or any other means of checking that the information that the ticket attendant is giving me is correct. Having committed to helping the police and not wanting to let them down I was faced with no alternative, other than to pay this ridiculous fare. I didn^t want too, but I had no choice!

I would also like to say that I did not go to the press. When I took my expenses into the office the next day, I had to explain why I had spent so much on a train ticket. In disgust, it was our company secretary who forwarded the tickets to the Bath Chronicle, not me! She did this because First Great Western refused to reply to our emails justifying the price of the tickets. I later received a call from the press asking it they could send a reporter to photograph me and the tickets.

After it was published in the newspaper. I then received a call from Points West News asking me if I had heard that First Great Western had put there prices up a further 6%, and would I mind telling them my story as it was appropriate following the price increase. I agreed, but as you can imagine it was heavily edited and it left out certain facts like ^did I try to get a cheaper fare?^.

So to answer some of the criticism

Relex109, You are probably a decent person normally, but to describe someone that you don^t even know as ^Dumb^ or ^Stupid^ seems a little harsh! Of course I wouldn^t buy a tv without comparing prices, but then again I wouldn^t normally put myself in a position where I had only 15 minutes to decide which tv buy. As I have said, in this particular case I had no choice! 

Phil. You talk about learning a lesson. Well guess what? I have. And that lesson is to use the car. My job rarely affords me the time to book tickets in advance because most of my work is at very short notice, so I guess the for me the train in not a practical solution.

Dog Box. I didn^t want to go via London! The ticket office told me I had no choice if I needed to be in Northallerton by 12.30. Maybe they were right, maybe they were wrong? I had no way to check at the time so I had to trust the man behind the ticket counter. You also commented on the trip being a round 700 miles because I went via London, as I said I wasn^t my choice. There wasn^t an alternative for that time of the day!

Vacman. Last Tuesday I was in Amsterdam and finished my work earlier than expected. I went to Schiphol airport to get a flight to Bristol. I booked it at the airport and it cost me ^79! Whilst I am on the subject of Holland. I went from Rotterdam to Amsterdam also last Tuesday. I paid for my train ticket on the day at the station and I was charged 18 euros! That trip took 1 hour 40 minutes and was approximately 120 miles. That was also at peak time! I think it puts UK rail fares into perspective.

John R. Your absolutely right you don^t have to be an expert to ask if there is anything cheaper! I did ask, and there wasn^t. Maybe I should have called at 10.30 the night before, but should I really have been charged ^327 for not calling 7 hours earlier? I don^t think so.

Finally, its all very well working out how much the real cost of a car is when you take into account tax, MOT, insurance etc. But if you own a car anyway you are paying these costs whether your car is in the garage or on the road so surely you may as well drive?

As you have probably guessed, I am not a rail user. In fact I probably haven^t used a train in the UK for 10 years or more until last week. Judging by the amount of posts that you guys make you all seem keen rail users, and you obviously know your way around the system very well. Unfortunately I didn^t, but should I ever need the train again which is looking very unlikely I would but much more careful.

However, to get back to the real issue. Surely there can be nobody on this forum who can genuinely put their hand on their heart and say that ^327 for a standard return ticket to Northallerton is good value for money? Irrelevant whether or not you buy the ticket on the day! For this reason alone I don^t regret agreeing to going public about this matter. Even if some people think I was dumb or stupid. Who knows, if my story goes some way to bringing about a more fair and logical approach to rail fares, then it may just have been worth it.

It was not my intention to court controversy, but as an ordinary member of the public if I am to be teased out of my car there has to be an incentive. But from where I am standing I am struggling to find one at the moment. If I am to use trains for business I need to be able to go to a station at short notice, buy a ticket and jump on the train. Just as I do in Holland.

Do the forum members ever think I will be in a position to do this in the UK in the future?

Thank you for your time, and I hope you can now understand how I came to be in this bizarre situation.

Nick   



 

Welcome to the forum Nick. Good to have you on board.

Firstly, many thanks for posting to the forum your recent experience of travelling by train to Northallerton. Plenty of food for thought and good to get your side of the story first hand rather than through the press.

Travelling by train has never been cheaper IF you can book in Advance and travel off peak. BUT if you can't fulfil these two criteria travelling by train has never been more expensive as you have found out. I think its very sad that we have pretty much lost the convenience of a walk up railway with even off peak 'Saver' tickets rather expensive but the price you must pay if you want flexability nowadays it seems.

Yes if you are travelling at peak times there is going to be a premium price to pay for doing this but has the cost now become totally out of proportion with the costs of travelling off peak or with advance tickets?

Yes welcome Nick, and thank you for a very comprehensive and polite reply to our points.

I think you were badly advised by the ticket office. Checking now on the On Line Journey Planner on National Rail it quotes a turn up fare (ie not book in advance) of ^99 leaving Bath Spa at 6.28 and arriving in Northallerton at 12.00.  If you were there at 5.30 and asked for a cheaper ticket then they should have sold you that, and I think you are justified in complaining further (if you have the time, effort and inclination that is).

You were obviously put in a position whereby you couldn't shop around in advance, but if you asked the question then you were entitled to be advised of the cheaper option, though whether you would have wanted to take it given it meant kicking your heels at Bath for an hour is debatable.

I can understand why you would be tempted to say never again given your experience, but most tickets are not that outrageously priced, and I would encourage you to try the train again, maybe when there is a bit more planning time. Heading north you are probably best placed to drive to Bristol Parkway first (allow enough time for traffic and parking in the morning rush hour though).

Why use the train? Well it's safer, and allows lots of time for doing other things, particularly if you have a PC with mobile internet access. So even if the journey door to door takes a bit longer, it should not be dead time.

I agree that walk on fares in the morning peak are too expensive, but that to some extent is a political question as to the funding that the railways get compared with their European counterparts. When FGW has to pay billions of pounds over the terms of its franchise to the government then there is only one person who is going to pay for that - the farepayer.

   

It does seem a ridiculous price, if you didn't go via London you could have gone First Class for a cheaper fare!!

Can I suggest contacting National Express East Coast regarding this, as First Great Western has no say in the price of the ticket as it was set by National Express.

Nick - thank you SO MUCH for signing up and 'correcting the record' - delighted to have you here, although I know you won't be using the train much in the future  ;) so won't become one of our regulars.

I was instrumental in setting up this forum because of the utter farce of elements of the rail system in the wedge to the west of London - First Great Western territory.  Some - but not all of it - relates to a ridiculously complex fare system with so many oddities in it which brings the whole system into disrepute and leads to some fares being quoted which are, to say the least, grossly unfair.

I've been "caught out" too.  I've asked for a return, but been sold a single (42 pounds return v 41 pounds single!), and I like to think I'm not "stupid" either. I've been lied to (and the rules tell the staff to lie) when I asked for the "cheapest way to get to Chippenham on the next train".  I've been offered the 75 pound direct fare from Swindon to Salisbury (there are 2 trains a day) rather than the one's that's rather less that a half of that if you make a longer journey and change at Bath ...

It's my contention that rail fares should be fair and easy to understand, which patently they are not.  Unless you have a degree in railway fares, or you're paid to spend time learning all about them (which by definition, railway staff are!), you've not got a hope of not getting caught out occasionally by a corrupt system.  I saw you on TV. And I thought "there, but for the grace of God, go I"

An afterthought.   I was talking to someone who had visited Poland recently, and made a train journey there.   When he booked hsi return ticket, he asked about the conditions on the return. "It's just a return ticket" said the clerk "that's what we sell - you can come back when you like - why should it be otherwise?" ... why, indeed!

If you only want to complain about the amount you were charged, you need to contact National Express, as First Great Western don't set the fare for the journey you took.

If instead you want to complain about the ticket you were sold, you can complain to First Great Western because - unless you insisted on travelling via London - they did not sell you the cheapest ticket for your journey.

The staff at the ticket office should have advised you to catch the 0628 to Cardiff, changing at Bristol Temple Meads (15 min connection) for the 0700 towards Edinburgh, and changing again at York (19 minutes) for the 1141 towards Newcastle which would have got you to Northallerton at 1200. This would have cost ^99.80 (Off Peak Returns are valid on any train after 0500 on this route), and they ought to refund the difference.

If you don't get anywhere, follow up the complaint through Passenger Focus. Don't let them get away with this.

Hmmm maybe I should revise my comment that travelling at peak times can be expensive. ^99.80 is a pretty good price for travelling so early in the day. The ^327 question is why was this fare not offered as its by a permitted route?

Hi Nick,

Thanks for putting the facts straight.

DO travel by train in the future, as not all prices are that bad.

Try and buy online in advance (even just 1 day), and you can save lots of money.

Use nationalexpresseastcoast.com - the best booking site.

Seeing as you took the journey by rail, did you enjoy it? was it relaxing? did you get a lot of work done? These are the main benefits of rail travel.

Now would that be Bodmin or Bristol Parkway?

Expect it's Bristol as I doubt it's less than a ^ton on the Hind from Bodmin.

Maybe in the context of the article and thread the answer is obvious?

Nick ..if you did not state that you wished to travel via london, The Ticket Office should have sold you the cheapest ticket avalible to suit your needs, they clearly did not, and you should take this up with FGW Customer services,{pm me with address and i will gladly forward you a form }
as for the price this is clearly of epic proportions but as others have stated its set by NXEC, comparing rail travel in Holland and the UK is not really a comparision as the UK government sees rail travel as something they dont wish to contribute too and  they want they paying passenger to cough up more.
Yes rail ticket pricing is a minefield in this country , but if you are prepaired to do a bit of research you can get some good deals.
^327 is a lot of money, but its far from being the most expensive Ticket out there, its the way the system works and speaking to newspapers sorts nothing out at all

Which in the grand scheme of things makes no difference whatsoever - if FGW were responsible for setting the fare it would be the same/similar. What strikes me as the key fact is that a fare of less that ^100 (avoiding London) was available, and should have been quoted.

It IS a comparison though. And compared with Holland (and most of Europe), we compare very badly. The average punter doesn't give a toss about the politics - a train is a train is a train!

We do compare badly ,but whose fault is that?

Thank you all for your courteous replies

I have to say the past couple of weeks have been a real education me, and the more posts I read the more angry I get. I thought they hung Dick Turpin but it appears he^s alive and kicking, and has changed his name to FGW.

To find out that I was lied too by not one, but two members of First Great Western is a bitter pill to swallow! I insisted on four or five occasions to both members of FGW staff that there must be a cheaper alternative. And on every occasion both members of staff said that to get to Northallerton by 12:30, I would have to go via London! I am struggling to believe that two members of FGW made the same mistake by accident? I am of the opinion that FGW need to seriously look at the way in which they train there staff!

I believe that Industry Insider has knocked the nail on the head. I am an average punter, and I don^t much care for politics. All I want to do is get from A to B as cheaply as possible. Whether that is by car, bus, train, plane or horse and cart.

I think you have to make comparisons to Europe, because if you don^t you will never know how you are performing or how you can improve. As an average member of the public I cannot understand how I can walk into a station in Holland and by a rail ticket for a 18 euro^s and travel 120 miles. It is so simple and so easy. We should hold our heads in shame if we cannot offer a similar service in the UK.

To answer your question Btline. I did enjoy travelling by train, it was relaxing and I was able to get some work done. However, if I am to be encouraged to use the train again, I need the flexibility to turn up on the day and pay a reasonable fare. I don^t mind paying a little extra for arriving on the day BUT, it has to be proportionate.

Who is too blame? FGW, National Express, the government. I don^t know. But until someone in authority gets a grip of the situation, rail travel for people like myself, will have to be used as a very last resort.

On pure financial grounds I^m not a convert yet. Maybe one day, who knows?

Thanks again for your comments

Nick

I only really have a few words for this,

This is a very disappointing story. It would be interesting to know what went wrong here.

As some of you on this forum know, I like to sit on the fence sometimes, so I will point out that nobody except Nick and my colleagues at Bath Spa really know what was actually requested and how the actual conversation went.

I'm not saying Nick is making up his events of the story, more of a it would be nice to hear it from the other side, so whoever sold him the ticket.

Ollie

My requirements for travel that day were made very very clear. Bath Spa to Northallerton! Standard return! Arrive by 12.30! Cheapest!

Also I believe FGW refusal to reply to three emails speaks volumes.

Hey, I'm over it now. I have learnt my lesson and I will move on. I will probably keep my eye on this forum though. As I said earlier it's an education!

Nick

Who are you e-mailing?
If it's customer services they have an obligation to reply to you.

Nick, they may have a backlog of complaints (it normally takes a while for response)!

Thanks for your reply.

Thats interesting. They have a backlog of complaints do they? Uhmmmmm.

If we do receive a response from FGW, I will post their reply.

Nick

Demanding to speak to a manager might get you somewhere!

There has been various lengthy delays recently, so yes customer services may have more to deal with than normal. But as mentioned, they are obliged to reply.

I would have thought that the fact this incident got such media exposure would lead to it being given special treatment. In other words rushed to the front of the queue and not using standard letter reply number 6!

OK Guys

Here is a challenge for you!

I said I would never travel on a train in the UK again after the last fiasco. Well I have got to do a presentation for the Lincolnshire police on Tuesday (9th Dec) I need to be there by 9.30am and need to leave Lincoln at approx 15.00. I am intending to drive. HOWEVER, if one of you can find me a reasonably priced train from Bath to Lincoln Central I will take it!

I would look myself but I reckon you guys with your connections will probably get me a better deal!

Good luck
Nick

I could also go from Westbury if thats makes the search easier!

To get there by 9.30 you'll have to go via London, which will mean a ^269 Anytime Return.

The earliest you can get there via Cheltenham is 11.06 (^105 Anytime Return), or 14.28 (^61.50 Off Peak Return).

(I tried ^61.50 Off Peak Return + Lincoln Travelodge, but there are no rooms free on the 6th/7th :P)

^269  >:(

That doesn't seem like good value to me!

Anyone else?

It's fair to say you've chosen an awkward destination for a railway journey, Nick - Lincoln is not very well served by the rail network as it sadly lies off any 'main line'. I would have to say that, in this case, the car IS the best option - though at 4hrs, I'm not sure that I'd fancy getting up so early to drive there and then be faced with a long drive back as well!

Would travelling there the previous evening and getting a Travelodge/Hotel be an option for you? If so, you could get there and back by rail (via London) for under ^90 with advance tickets that are currently available for the days in question. I'm sure your presentation would go much better after a good nights sleep and a nice breakfast in Lincoln...  ;)

It's a shade over 50p per mile - you are travelling at peak time, remember.

If you're doing two (or more) trips in a week there's always the 7-day All-Line Rail Rover at ^375 (or ^565 for the 14-day version)...

Lincoln Thorpe on the Hill Travelodge is available on the 8th December for ^45.
Lincoln Premier-inn with special guest Lenny Henry staying with you for ^59.

Both are approx 5miles from Lincoln so no idea in taxi costs with relation to station and where you have your presentation.

6th/7th is the weekend and his presentation is the 9th  ;)

According to the AA its 196 miles from Bath (3hrs 41minutes) or 173 miles from Westbury (3 hrs 55mins) (which struck me as kind of curious that it's further from Bath).

So a good 4 hours plus contingency time given that some of that will be in the rush hour.

If you go via London you have to be at Kings Cross by 0710, so that route is not possible either for there and back in a day.

I would either drive and stay in a hotel or take the train via London and stay in a hotel. I don't think any employer would expect you to do that journey there and back in a day (and many would actively discourage it on health and safety grounds, particularly given employers' responsibilities now with regard to safe driving)

 

D'oh! </homer>

Reading this reminded me of something that vacman said a while ago :


My maths are notoriously suspect, but if I'm right then in effect what this means is railway staff are enjoying a pre-taxed annual entitlement worth either at best

52 (the number of 7 day periods in a year) x ^375 = ^19,500

or at least,

26 (the number of fortnights in a year) x ^565 = ^14,690

- which I have to say, either way isn't exactly to be sniffed at. Any jobs going?

This is a bit off topic given the original subject, but that theory only works if railway staff use it to that level (which of course they cannot because they are at work a lot of the time.) And as I recall it's not unlimited free travel, only for so many days a year. And I don't believe more recent recruits (post privitisation, so actually 10 years now) get even that level of benefit.

Post privatisation employees get free travel on FGW and get discounted travel on other TOCs.

Safeguarded employees (pre-privatisation) get free FGW & 12-16 periods of (I think 48hrs) of free travel on any TOC and discounted London Underground travel.

All employees after 12mths employment get an International Discount card including Eurostar, depending on foreign TOCs terms.

However, I would love to have the spare time to get the ^19,500 benefit that Phil illustrates  ;D

 ;D  I wasn't really "illustrating" anything, just adding together the contents of two disparate Coffee Shop posts and coming up with a vaguely interesting figure. Sorry for straying so far off topic! I did realise it doesn't really belong here, but honestly it was just me thinking aloud really, and definitely not worth starting a new thread over.

Back now to your normal programming   :)

I have a meeting in Portishead all day, so going up on Monday is not an option.

It's looking like the car at the moment unless anyone can come up with a suggestion?

Nick

Hello, Nick, and a slightly belated welcome from me!

As a moderator, I tend to start some threads on this forum with a link to a topical news story: when I did that with this particular one, I certainly didn't expect it would set off such a fascinating (and generally well-mannered) debate.  Thanks, everyone!

As to your journey in this case - I have to agree with those who have acknowledged that the car is probably the better option, given your commitments to be in Lincoln at a certain time.

However, please don't leave us because of that: I'm sure that our members here will be delighted to offer a similarly detailed set of suggestions for any future logistical challenge you may set them!

Best wishes, and thanks for your input on this forum!

Chris  ;) :D ;D

Portishead was recently covered in the 2nd episode (called West) of the Beeching's Tracks series on BBC4 - I was going to post the link but that episode is no longer available on iplayer due to episode 3 now being the latest.

The 2 hour car commute the girl had from Portishead to Bristol (12miles) was madness - she's now moved to Bristol it said at the end of the episode!

On the positive side it sounds like the track extension to Portishead will go ahead at some point in the next few? years.  On the downside for you Nick this obviously isn't soon enough and I'd give yourself plenty of time by car from the sounds of things.  I'm sure others who live near the area have better advice!

Boppy.

Nick.....dont think its possible to go to lincoln on the day and get there for 9.30, earliest will be 10 02 and that is of course if everything runs smootly, you would need to go to btm to catch the 447 to pad [it goes via hullavington} savers are valid on this train ^53 advance single, ^102 off peak single.
return would leave lincoln 1532 and go via new st ^102 single return arrive btm 8 pm ish.

Looks like it's the car then? Believe it or not, I hate driving. But like lawyers and accounts, cars are still an evil necessary.

Because in this instance I had time to plan (which is unusual). I was really looking forward to eating some humble pie and being proved wrong.

I know that you are really keen to get people like me onto the trains, and I do applauad that. But by just looking at this one particular trip to Lincoln, I hope you are able to start to understand why for people like me, using trains is a problem regarding cost and convenience.

Thanks very much for your efforts though!

Nick

Nick

Please do try us again though, and also let us know whether you get any joy in trying to get FGW to admit that they should have sold you the cheaper ticket (and more to the point, compensate you!)
You might find another reminder pointing out that it's the "media case" might have some more joy.

Nick ... I hate driving (to work, longer distance) these days too ... but I found myself driving on Monday morning from home, not far from you, to Cambridge, then back yesterday night.  It simply wasn't practical by train - not only because of cost, but because a car was the only practical way of finishing what I was doing on Sunday (ironically, helping with the Santa Special train) at around 19:30 in Melksham, and being ready to start teaching Perl Programming on the Cambridge Business Park at 08:30 the next morning.

But having said that, I heard a very interesting comment indeed from am official who works for one of the organisations involved in the rail industry who's now also a friend. "Graham - you and Cxxxxx are the only two people I know who I would expect to see equally on a train or a bus" and that sets me thinking / wondering just how much other travellers are happy to go with the most suitable mode for any journey, rather than having a strong preference.

Cambridge ... Lincoln ... Customers from Milton Keynes ... Watford ... Eccles Road ... just in the last couple of weeks.  You wouldn't believe the number of times that I, or my customers, are frustrated at how hard it is to get from the Wessex area to that wedge to the North and East of London up as far as The Humber ... and the case for the East - West rail link.

Would be interesting to actually see this as a regular service.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3978.0

it is possible sent you a pm with details

I was thinking about contacting them again. But maybe I ought to leave it just to see how long it takes for FGW to come back to us to address the complaint.

I don't think I deserve any special or priority treatment above anyone else. If FGW think the bad media coverage should push it further up the priority list that should be up to them. I fear that it's been 20+ days already.

I can tell you that I left work at 6pm on Friday and we hadn't had a reply up to then.

Just as an aside. Does FGW really care about customer complaints? The only reason I mention this. Is if I don't like the sevices or prices in Tesco, I can choose to shop at ASDA. However if I don't like the prices or service at my local railway station, who do I go to?

This may be a very simplistic view but it is the way I see it.

Nick

I've always got a reply within about 1-2 days

That's pretty much the norm so I am very surprised you've not heard anything yet Nick unless FGW are carrying out an investigation.

Even if FGW are investigating this issue a simple Reply to say we are looking into this, and will report back later, would be BASIC GOOD MANNERS. >:( >:(

The whole issue of Staff travel is now complex, Some railway staff get free National Travel some get free travel on the TOC they work for, others Get NO free or discounted travel.

Now this is as I understand it, Vacman I thought worked for a TOC, but if he pays tax on his travel privilege then he  must work for someone else.

To keep it simple those who get the EX BR free and Priv rate travel may OR may NOT pay tax on this travel, is that FAIR I think NOT

If the EX BR Worker works for a (A)TOC, then his BR travel consession is free of TAX as it's a reciprocal arangement FGW allow NXEC staff free travel in return for NXEC allowing FGW staff free travel in return, etc across all ATOC member companies.

However if the Ex BR worker works for Network Rail or other NON ATOC company, then ATOC makes a charge for the issue of the BR travel Consession, for 2008-9 this was charged at ^506.65 (paid by the Employer) and being a payment in kind is Taxable, so some workers pay about ^112 a year for this perk.

So it's Rail staff as well who have it UNFARE!!  :( :(

I don't appear to pay any extra tax on my benefits....  (Free TOC travel & reduced priv rate on others) ???

This might be a little of topic, but when it comes to FGW customer service I wrote to them back in January and posted my letter it in a Post Office (signed for) as I was aware the electrical box on Exton station was open (it looks closed) but on storm days it comes Open.

I had no reply, and to this day that Box is still open, I just wonder what it will take for someone to fix it, I'd have thought some-one would have picked this issue up on a maintenance visit.

So all I can say is Nick don't hold your Breath waiting for a reply.

use the contact us link on there website they reply to that.... parcels dont always get to the correct address  ;)

So all I can say is Nick don't hold your Breath waiting for a reply.
[/quote]

I'm not holding my breath! I have a feeling that just maybe, this case is just a little to embarrassing to even reply to?

Nick

How was your journey to Lincoln, Nick?

It was OK. I had a fairly good run!

I have got to go to Newton le Willows on January 7th. When I have a confimed time I may well come back to you gents and see if you fancy trying to find me a train. Usual conditions apply, namely price and convenient times!

Nick

OK

I said I would give you guys another try after the Northallerton fiasco. Also we didn't get much luck with the Lincoln trip, so can we try this one?

I have got to be in Newton le Willows by 12.15 on the 7th of January. Looking on the map, the nearest main station seems to be St Helens. Newton le Willows looks to be a ^15 taxi fare from there. According to multimap it is 196 miles each way. So by my reckoning It will cost me about ^40 in diesel.

I have plenty of time to pre-book so hopefully one of you gents can find me a ticket that will tease me out of my car?

Regards
Nick

^119. No Advance tickets!

There is a station at Newton-Le-Willows.

^119 + ^15 taxi  :o

Surely we can do better than that?

I suspect the 7th January is all booked up with Christmas revellers, all advanced fares will have gone. If you want to do it on the 7th Feb as a day return from the NR web site you could have done it to Newton for ^66.50 leaving at 07.22, which gets you in for 12.00.

There are probably other split journey options that others around here know about which might make a bit of difference, but at that time of year all the cheap seats will have gone on holiday makers as soon as they were available.

Can someone check this one ...

40 pounds single, Bath to Birmingham New Street
10.50 advanced purchase single to Newton-le-Willows

13.00 advanced purchase single back to Birmingham New Street
15.50 advanced purchase single back to Bristol Parkway
6.60 Off Peak Single to Bath Spa

Splitting on the way up at Bristol Parkway did no good, but I didn't try a Cheltenham split or anything . Total price of above (to Newton-le-Willows) is 85.10.  I have assumed a peak time, same day return.

there is a station at n l w deffo i think its on the southport line if memory serves me well (its been a while )

Copious details for the station at Newton-le-Willows are at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Newton-le-Willows_railway_station  ;)

40 quid still looking good.

NLW is very interesting rail wise. Not only is it on the 1830 Livrpool and Mancheater line it is also electrified. There is an odd bit of wire from Winnick Junction (North of Warrington) to NLW branching off North at Parkside West Juction (East of NLW) back to the WCML at Goldbourne Junction. Presumably it was done when the wires were extended to Glasgow in 1974! A bit of BR foresight to link with an electrified L&M which never happened. I've been round a couple of the junctions on a rail tour.

It was also the home of EE Vulcan Foundary, builders of the Deltics.

Sorry, but this doesn't help you get a cheap fare.