Great Western Coffee Shop

In addition to the electrification of the Midland Main Line it would now seem that it is the likely intention to electrify both FGW routes to Bristol (via Bath and Brtistol Parkway), plus the lines to Oxford and Bedwyn, thus ensuring that all commuter services into Paddington are electric.

Whilst other FGW electrification may be desirable, the above, if it happens, will be a base upon which to build.

TJ

Source would appreciated. Thanks

The source would be useful. 

There is no clear strategy as yet for route mainline electrification, the anticipated time scale is CP6 for Government funding which is 10 years away

Source - TravelWatch Southwest AGM.

Information was freely given without caveat, so I have put it in the Coffee Shop public domain. It doesn't of course guarantee that this is what will happen, but it does indicate the current thinking / latest situation.

I would very much welcome what is suggested, being a sound base on which to build.

TJ

It's a RUMOUR un-founded as usual! ;D

The Adair Turner report to the Government ( "Committee on Climate Change" ) just published  says that rail only accounts for 2% of transport carbon emmissions.  Page 278 of the report deals with rail and  there are 5 lines of text saying that electric power is more carbon efficient and "an accelerated programme of electrification could therefore deliver significant emissions reduction".
Sadly, 5 lines of text in a 500 page report is not a ringing endorsement of the need for electrification!

Iain Coucher NR Chief Executive and the new Minister of State for Transport Lord Andrew Adonis have just returned from a 2 day fact finding visit to Japan to see how they operate and plan their rail system, it would seem from Iains blog posted on the NR intranet that Lord Andrew Adonis is keen on electrification and new build high speed lines ......... all we need now is the money

France would have been cheaper. They could even have gone by Eurostar and used their journey there to see HSR in action.

The other object of the visit was to see how JR are planning to tackle renewals, much of their high speed routes are 40 years old they are looking at renewing some bridges etc signaling and to increase track capacity from 2 teack to 4 in some places, so to a degree it was a two way visit with NR able to share its expirence of renewing major components on an operational railway

Hope they didn't use Rugby as a case study then.

If the Paddington suburban services were electrified then Thames turbos could be sent everywhere to get rid of pacers and provide much needed capacity!

By the time that happens post Crossrail the Turbos will be life expired they are already 17 years old

Turbos can't be sent everywhere. They were built wider than 15X and 17X DMUs to take advantage of the extra clearances given by the GW's old broad gauge legacy, so are banned from many routes.

Someone inside FGW may know more detail on where they are and aren't allowed to go. As well as their current stamping grounds, they can obviously operate anywhere on Chiltern's routes and Didcot-Bristol, from their time working the Oxford-Bristol services.

And to Gatwick Airport which was never a 7'1/4" gauge railway.  I am not sure but they are not a C1 loading gauge and they will not be greater than C3 ie a Mk3 (HST) coach

The 23m-long 165/166 are 2.8m wide (like most 20m-long coaches, eg Class 150) because of the wider WR clearances, while other 23m-long coaches in use in Britain, including Mk3s and 153/155/156/158/168/170 DMUs are 2.7m to fit inside C3 gauge. For whatever reason, the Reading-Redhill-Gatwick route clearly does have adequate clearances.

Getting slightly off-topic, the current issue of Today's Railways Europe says that when DB stored its tilting ICE-TD DMUs in 2002-3, an unnamed UK operator did go to look at them with a view to using them on ex-GWR routes, because the tilt capability meant they are slightly narrower than your typical European train and would fit through Brunel bridges. The stumbling block was their length, at 27m more typical of Europe, which meant they would foul curved platforms at places like Bath. If you want a taste of what might have been, half the fleet is now back in action, operating from Hamburg to Arhus and Copenhagen in Denmark.

I think that the cross country route from Guildford to Tonbridge was originally built to a more generous loading gauge as part of a planned channel tunnel link.  The old GCR was, IIRC, engineered to similar standards.  From what I can remember of Reading-Guildford; there are no sharp curves a la Bath Spa, to preclude 'turbo' operation.

Turbo's are permitted through Bath Spa. They've also been to Weymouth and Llandudno on excursions over the years, so although their gauge is a limiting factor, it isn't that limiting.

A few years back Turbo's used to operate BTM-Oxford direct services via Bath Spa, Chippenham & Swindon, so they are cleared here!

 :o Hay can you all keep your thieving hands off of our 165/6 as we don't have enough of them in the Thames Valley as it is  ::)


 ;) :D ;D :)

Well, you can keep your hands off the 165s and 166s unless you send us something to replace them. Hmm, how about class 50s and mark IIs...  ;)

No, we'll keep the 50's as they'll support the 31's on the Brighton turn.  ;) ;D ;D

What would you say their life expectancy is then? 142s must be getting on a bit?

I was only using Bath Spa as an example. :'(

Having just experienced turbo travel from Reading to Hayes & Harlington, I was favourably impressed although interiors are a bit shabby.  Perhaps  we could swap the odd 150/2.

I probably risk wandering off topic here but...

All credit to FGW, the interiors of the turbos have improved significantly since the days of Thames Trains: no refurbishment work had been carried out by Thames since they were built, as far as I could tell (the seats were still upholstered with the old NSE moquette). However, that wasn't the main problem: they were simply badly neglected. Trains entered service at Oxford knee-deep in litter, virtually all the windows were etched, and there was often graffiti on the seats, walls and bulkheads. I recall a trip from Oxford through to Bristol on a unit where one of the hopper windows had been fixed shut using sellotape but kept falling open. It was January and very, very cold...

Travelling on a 165/166 these days is a much-improved experience, and hopefully will be improved further by the refurb (anyone know when this is supposed to start yet?). The main bug-bear is that the air conditioning on the 166s never seems to work during the summer.

To be fair to Thames, in their dying days. they did carry out a very basic smartening-up of the 166s, which also got a new paint job, but beyond seat covers that wore very badly and new carpets, that was about it.

Certainly no attempt to rectify the problems with the air conditioning, which on 166210 was doing a fine job tonight of sucking in fumes on the 17.51 London-Worcester when running in place of an HST. It is to be hoped that when the long-heralded 165/166 refresh finally happens that the a/c problems aren't ignored yet again and that the underfloor kit isn't neglected either. The transmission sounded pretty laboured while trying to get up speed from station stops.

Could have been the driver "nursing" the power to avoid wheelslip due to poor adhesion - now that it's started drizzling after several dry days the railhead may well be pretty greasy.

Starts during the new timetable, but I know that the current 07:02 from Maidenhead (which is a service from Bedwyn) will not be calling at Maidenhead in the new timetable, this is due to the service being one turbo instead of two coupled up, and I have been told this is to allow for the Turbo refresh programme.

Has it ever been analysed how much/if bend greasers contribute to wheel slip ?

Don't think so, just sounded rough, as did 209 tonight, though after 15 years of being hammered that's probably not surprising.

In theory they are flange greasers designed to grease the inside of the flange where it rubs the rail going round a curve. Inner rail? (I was never much good at forces and vectors)? Thus grease should not get onto the the tread of the wheel or the railhead. There used to be one at Farringdon on the Circle/MET and from what I recall the railhead seemed reasonably clean whilst the inside of the rail had grease all along. I also recall going round from Liverpool Street to Aldgate East when the lubricators weren't working the screech was horrendous.

Sorry to change the topic again. BUT if the turbos are limited in where they can go then the midland main line ought to be electrified because doing that would put more capcity on cross country, nottingham-cardiff, liverpool-norwich, portsmouth-cardiff and birmingham-stanstead. Plus think about what all the 158 & turbostars from there could do. This would be done by sending the long merdians & hst on the mml to xc, voyagers replaced by HSTs & short merdians to the routes above. SURLY then that is better than having the constrated turbos even of it does not benefit the west as much. ???

By the time the Government fund route electrification much of the current rolling stock will be either life expired 165/6 or half life, it is not until 2017 ie CP 6 that NR thing the ORR will fund such a venture

How old are the 158s now. just over 20 years old and are providing capacity boost for such franchises as northern. How about the HSTs? They are 25-30 years old and most have just been re-engined putting another 20 years life in them. I'm sorry but does this not show that if we re planing to get rid of trains built in 2003ish (meridians) & 2002ish (voyagers) in 2203 and 2202 then will we not have capcity problems there and is it not wastefull?

I'm hoping that they keep refurbishing the HSTs.  I would be much happier if they chuck out the noisy, vibrating toilet-smelling Voyagers,  before the calm, quiet, relaxed (and 30-year-old) HSTs.

I vote for a new batch of HSTs, with power cars at the end and not underneath, and if electrification happens to occur. New or refurbished electric power cars sound like a great option.

Your right a re-engined/refubished train is in some ways as good as (if not better) than a new one. Look at the Welsh Assambaly goverment express. That seems nicer than the voyagers which operate the London service.