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Title: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 07, 2008, 23:18:56 Quote Holidaymakers would be able to travel direct to Heathrow Airport from Bristol under a Conservative government. Shadow Transport Secretary Theresa Villiers has revealed plans to link a Heathrow rail hub with the main rail line to the west giving passengers from Bristol a direct service to the country's largest airport. The rail spur at the London end of the route would connect up with the Great Western Main Line ending the need for passengers to change at Paddington. Although the party has not fleshed out the costings or timescale for the Bristol link it would expect it to be in place by 2027. For full details, see http://www.thisisbristol.co.uk/news/Tories-want-direct-Bristol-Heathrow-train/article-458649-detail/article.html Title: Re: Tories want direct Bristol to Heathrow train Post by: G.Uard on November 08, 2008, 06:20:50 I bet Adrian Sanders is quaking in his boots. ;D
Title: Re: Tories want direct Bristol to Heathrow train Post by: Electric train on November 08, 2008, 07:54:39 "Although the party has not fleshed out the costings or timescale for the Bristol link it would expect it to be in place by 2027."
Shock horror that puts at the end of CP5 and 10 years after Crossrail is competed so there is quite a good chance it would happen even under the current Government policy as the GW mainline is one of the top routes for electrification, a direct rail link, at least into the existing Heathrow stations" can only be by electric traction. Title: Re: Tories want direct Bristol to Heathrow train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on November 08, 2008, 14:19:28 From the Western Morning News:
Quote Tourists and business visitors flying into Heathrow could have a direct rail link to the Westcountry under Tory plans to end the travel chaos endured by many people trying to reach the region. The move would also mean that people from Devon and Cornwall heading off on holiday would be able to reach the major London airport much more easily. Shadow Transport Secretary Teresa Villiers told the WMN a Conservative government would scrap plans for a third runway at Heathrow and plough the savings into a massive upgrade for the country's railways. As well as establishing a headline-grabbing high-speed rail link from London to the North of England, she said the move would see a new rail hub linking Devon and Cornwall directly with one of the world's busiest airports. If the Conservatives win the next election, they will order a competition for the next phase of high-speed rail to enable construction to start by 2015. While the full route would take until 2027 to finish, the Heathrow hub could be completed more quickly. For the full article, see http://www.thisisdevon.co.uk/news/TRAIN-PLANE-PLEDGE/article-459529-detail/article.html Title: Re: Tories want direct Bristol to Heathrow train Post by: G.Uard on November 08, 2008, 17:11:45 Tory Paper and blatant though unimaginative electioneering.
Title: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: woody on July 01, 2011, 10:39:14 MANAGING director of First Great Western Mark Hopwood has called for a direct rail route west of Paddington into Heathrow Airport.
http://www.walesonline.co.uk/business-in-wales/business-news/2011/07/01/first-great-western-s-mark-hopwood-calls-for-direct-rail-link-from-south-wales-to-heathrow-91466-28974452/ Should have been done years ago before fragmentation of the rail industry sent costs spiralling and our current(and future?) economic woes cramped any style we had. Commenting on the opening of the Beijing to Shanghai high speed rail line a government spokesman said China had adopted a "build it now and build it quick" approach knowing that leaving it till later (HS2) inevitably led to cost inflation. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on July 01, 2011, 10:59:14 A couple of inaccuracies though, or bad English at least....
Quote MANAGING director of First Great Western Mark Hopwood has called for a direct rail route west of Paddington into Heathrow Airport. The HEX/Connect spur is West of Paddington.... "From west of Heathrow" I think is what's meant! Quote Mr Hopwood said that the performance on the network was the best since privatisation, which now sees two trains running every half-hour from South Wales to London as opposed to one an hour a decade ago. Errr.....nope. Two trains every hour, maybe..... Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 01, 2011, 18:42:09 A connection toward the west will be once GW electrification is done, only electric traction can operate in the Heathrow tunnel system, there was a plan to use the old Stains / Colenbrook line, now that the Airtrack scheme has hit the stop blocks may well get resurrected perhaps as part of a TOC franchise bid?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: 12hoursunday on July 04, 2011, 13:51:16 Too many HEX running back and forth to the airport less than half full. 90% of High Speed Services get held up at airport junction which is 90% too many!
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Surrey 455 on July 04, 2011, 18:03:37 There was a proposal last year to link Slough to Terminal 5 via a new station at Windsor connecting with the SWT line and branching off to a new track at Wraysbury. Not sure what's happening with it because the website hasn't been updated since January 2011.
http://windsorlink.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Link_Railway Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 04, 2011, 18:30:50 The proposer was probably taken to one side by local landowners, such as Eton College and HM the Queen, and they explained his ideas stood absolutely no chance.
At least NR mentioned the private enterprise Brighton Main Line 2 in the SE RUS, along with a comment that it didn't meet any of their known requirements... Maybe the 'Windsor link' will appear in the final RUS - but I wouldn't bet on it... Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 04, 2011, 18:43:23 There was a proposal last year to link Slough to Terminal 5 via a new station at Windsor connecting with the SWT line and branching off to a new track at Wraysbury. Not sure what's happening with it because the website hasn't been updated since January 2011. http://windsorlink.net/ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windsor_Link_Railway This proposal falls down in so many ways, first Airtrack (the Waterloo Heathrow link via Staines) has been scraped due to insurmountable problems surrounding the level crossings in the Hounslow area and others to solve these pushed the cost beyond what BAA could afford. Second the Windsor link requires a new railway to be built through or under Windsor a very expensive idea for a very very very limited traffic level. The best option for a link to from the west is a new cord the country side of West Drayton using the Colnebrook line and a short link tunnel to T5 Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 05, 2011, 17:42:59 it's going to be an interesting civil engineering problem devising a juction to take traffic West from Heathrow. Use of Colnbrook branch gets it under the M4 but then you've either got to build the curve up to teh GWML.
The problem is that the Colonborok branch crosses under the main line when it is on an embankment and swings sharp right to join up with the old Uxbridge branch into West Drayton Station. To Swing left which ever side you start requires crossing two rivers and house and golf course on the South side to join the Main Lines (not satisfactory) or two rivers and a gravel pit to the North. To add to the complications the Main line enters a small cutting after crossing the second river at the East end of which is the M25. It could be done but too costly? Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: anthony215 on July 05, 2011, 19:51:26 might be diffcult especially pathing trains but couldnt trains reverse at west drayton (slow lines)?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 05, 2011, 20:05:20 Amazing what a little civil engineering design, some concrete, steel can do to build a fly over form the Colnebrook line up and over and land between the UM and DR also over to the UR. Unlikely that a direct connection the Mains would be need in normal use only required when the Reliefs are blocked for engineering
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Not from Brighton on July 05, 2011, 20:54:37 Does anyone know how much the grade separation west of Reading is costing? Surely it would have be be cheaper than that as the Reading project is much more complicated.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Surrey 455 on July 06, 2011, 11:00:07 If the old West Drayton to Staines line was re-engineered to allow a western link, would trains run any further than T5 - Reading on the Great Western line? Would there be a demand for trains to travel further? If so then what about trains from other parts of the country e.g. Crosscountry?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 06, 2011, 19:28:49 As for going further than Reading depends on where the wires go plus the stock to be used. Crossrail stock and would presumably be able to use LHR T5 as through station and run to hopefully Reading not Maidenhead.
Does anyone know if the IEP will be compatible with LHR T5. Not sure if you'd want to go very far on an old 319 which are likely to run the non Crossrail electrified local services on the GWML even if they are compatible with LHR T5. Until the wires go North of Oxford then XC would be excluded being diesel. Unless the dreaded bi mode was used. As an aside HEX and Connect will find electrifying the Reading traingle will be very useful as they will be able to turn their units to even wheel wear on the tight curve after Airport Junction. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 06, 2011, 22:13:16 319's will be more than compatible as they are The Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations) Regulations 1989 section 12 compliant, also they have cab end doors for evacuation in the Widen Lines, Clarkenwell and Snow Hill tunnels, they we also used as test train in the Channel Tunnel when the signaling and electrification was commissioned.
The IEP may not be compatible as they unlikely to be built to The Fire Precautions (Sub-surface Railway Stations) Regulations 1989 Section 12 and my not have guage clearance Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: rogerpatenall on July 07, 2011, 11:24:24 "due to insurmountable problems surrounding the level crossings in the Hounslow area"
insurmountable problems have a habit of being surmounted at a later date when the will is there. Current example is the quadrupling of the Charing Cross lines at Borough Market after at least 50 years of procrastination. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 07, 2011, 11:43:46 Christian Wolmar in the latest Rail magazine devotes his article to the scrapping of Airtrack and the level crossing problem. It seems Philip Hammond doesn't like level crossings.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on July 07, 2011, 15:04:55 Does any person like level crossings? We are fortunate in GW territory that Mr Brunel foresaw the problems of level crossings and there tend to be fewer than in many other parts of the country.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Wilf19 on December 02, 2011, 19:24:19 Having been messed about by the RailAir bus again tonight I find myself wondering if a westbound rail connection from Heathrow to Reading will ever happen. Now someone will tell me it's happening as part Crossrail but the maps I can find don't suggest that.
For my sins I get to use Heathrow fairly frequently and alternate between using the RailAir bus from Reading and going up to Paddington and using the Heathrow Express. I usually start using the bus again when I feel a bit guilty about the extra expense of going via Paddington. Using the bus usually lasts until something goes wrong and the connections mess up, and then I go back to using the Heathrow train. In 12 years of taking the train to Heathrow the train has only let me down twice, I've lost count of the number of times the RailAir bus has meant being late or having to spend and unscheduled night in a Heathrow hotel. My point is (at last!) surely the Thames Valley route catchment must have a good number of people who would make use of a train between Reading and Heathrow? Or is it all down to the usual vested interests? Ironically tonight's mess up isn't so bad for me, in the end as the 18:33 from Reading to Taunton is very late so I made my train. cheers Sorry if this has all been done before but I couldn't locate a thread on it. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: BerkshireBugsy on December 02, 2011, 20:07:05 Not that it would have much difference to your journey tonight :)
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on December 03, 2011, 11:51:24 Piece in Slough Midweek Observer about a do in Reading with the MP promoitng the link.
Under Heathrow Link vital for Economy. Alegedly Justine Greening has pledge her support. Network rail are doing a study. Also piece in December Modern railways reviewing all proposals for Westlinks to Heathrow including teh Windsor Link scheme. All on Page 5 of same issue of Observer peice on 48 new carriges for FGW. Also Maidenhead advertiser. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 04, 2011, 21:10:24 From the Reading Chronicle (http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2011/12/01/55600-eager-wait-for-airport-rail-link-study/):
Quote Eager wait for airport rail link study Transport secretary Justine Greening has pledged her backing for an emerging multi million pound railway project directly linking Reading to Heathrow Airport. Ms Greening revealed she is "awaiting with interest" the outcome of a proposed western rail link to the London airport which she anticipates will boost the region's transport network and economic fortunes. Network Rail is just weeks away from unveiling results of a feasibility study for the ^180-^500m scheme which will slash journey times from Reading to the airport to just 28 minutes and to eight minutes from Slough. Speaking last Thursday at a Westminster reception organised by Reading East MP Rob Wilson, when the Midweek and Chronicle were the only media from the Reading area represented, Ms Greening told rail chiefs and Thames Valley-based businesses: "This is one of those projects where you instinctively see its rationale and benefits. You only have to go past Reading on the M4 to see how much business is there, but in terms of the railway prospects it is so near yet so far. "This will not just benefit the railways it will benefit the rest of the country and its economy." Network Rail's ^119,000 study explores several options with the most likely route featuring a new 6km (3.72 mile) railway line and tunnel linking platforms at Heathrow Terminal Five with the Great Western Mainline east of Langley Station. Currently companies in this area spend up to ^10m annually on taxi fares to Heathrow because train travellers face either face a lengthy detour via London or catching Rail Air buses from Reading Station which take 40 minutes to complete the road journey. Mr Wilson said the proposals could bring "enormous" economic benefits to Reading and added: "Today demonstrates the tremendous spirit for this project across the political divide and from business and industry in the area. It should give us great heart and it's a project we can go forward with." First Great Western sponsored the reception, and company projects and planning director Matthew Golton said the scheme could help take the pressure off crowded trains travelling into London, adding: "It will be great for the communities we serve and is vital for the economy." Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: DavidH on December 06, 2011, 15:46:43 There's another alternative. Reading - Paddington stopper to Hayes & Harlingdon and then the Heathrow Connect. I did this recently from Twyford to Terminal 3 and it worked very well. Much cheaper too, about ^11 in middle of the day.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Wilf19 on December 06, 2011, 17:23:49 I hadn't thought of that route, it could be worth investigating. Although I usually use Terminal 5 and I don't think the connect service goes through to T5 so that would mean a change at Heathrow Central.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on December 06, 2011, 18:25:03 There's another alternative. Reading - Paddington stopper to Hayes & Harlingdon and then the Heathrow Connect. I did this recently from Twyford to Terminal 3 and it worked very well. Much cheaper too, about ^11 in middle of the day. This service from the West is not very well advertised by FGW, certainly from Maidenhead / Twyford it is a great way to get the Heathrow, the only pain in the ! if you have luggage is there are not lifts to help with the necessary UP to DN platform change and vice versa going home Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on December 06, 2011, 21:33:56 The only problem with Heathrow connect from Hayes is the exorbitant fare!
Do you get a senior discount on it? Another way is train to Slough and one of the many 7X to Central bus station or Terminal 5 buses from across the way at the new very pleasant to wait in bus station. I'm flying from 4 next year what's best way from Taplow thinking 75 bus to Central on pass and free shuttle train. Cost ^0 Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 12, 2012, 14:03:02 Today's aviation policy written statement includes:
http://www.dft.gov.uk/news/press-releases/dft-press-20120712b ^500m towards a western rail link to Heathrow, which is in addition to ^1.4bn already being invested to improve surface access to airports, including ^44m towards upgrading Gatwick Airport station and a new fleet of thirty electric trains already improving services on the Stansted Express. In addition the Government is pressing ahead with HS2 which will significantly improve access to airports such as Birmingham and Manchester... Editors note: The Western Rail Access to Heathrow project will be included in the Government's forthcoming High Level Output Specification for the railways (HLOS) announcement. The project is subject to a satisfactory business case and the agreement of acceptable terms with the Heathrow aviation industry. Yet another project proposed by NR in last September's shopping list. Maybe we should see it as a good omen for Bristol Metro, which is in the same document? Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on July 12, 2012, 15:05:00 Mark Hopwood comments....
http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/About-Us/Media-centre/First-Great-Western-statement-on-western-rail-access-to-Heathrow Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2012, 16:18:50 I wonder what service levels would be deemed appropriate for such a link, given the limited capacity on the GWML? Personally, I can't see anything from too far afield running straight into Heathrow, as the market for Paddington is too strong that most paths will be taken up with trains to London. Perhaps a half-hourly semi-fast service from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, and Slough, which could possibly originate at Oxford/Newbury/Swindon?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on July 12, 2012, 16:25:49 Is it definitely off the GWML, and not off the Waterloo line?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: onthecushions on July 12, 2012, 16:35:09 I remember 2 decades ago when Heathrow Express was being planned that many (including little me) wrote letters etc urging that a Western curve be built at Airport Junction. Typically both the DfT and MP's dismissed these calls.... Remember the tunnel collapse? OTC Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2012, 16:38:39 Is it definitely off the GWML, and not off the Waterloo line? Yes, with a junction probably either west of West Drayton or between Iver and Langley. The following is from NR's CP5 Initial Industry Plan: http://www.networkrail.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=30064778689 (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/WorkArea/DownloadAsset.aspx?id=30064778689) The study will review options for constructing the link, including: extension from the Terminal 5 station in a tunnel under the western boundary of the airport, connecting to the Colnbrook branch to a new junction West of West Drayton on the GWML; and extension from Terminal 5 in a tunnel to Richings Park, Iver, with a new junction between Iver and Langley stations on the GWML. Further options may be identified by the design consultant. No decisions have been taken about service provision over the loop, but options include a completely new service, re-routing Crossrail services and extending Heathrow Express and / or Heathrow Connect services to Reading. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 12, 2012, 17:26:24 ...options include a completely new service, re-routing Crossrail services and extending Heathrow Express and / or Heathrow Connect services to Reading. I thought that was a bit of an odd selection of options, because it is already known that Connect is subsumed into Crossrail. Perhaps when NR wrote it they still though Crossrail might not happen... ;D Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2012, 17:42:07 I don't suppose there's any reason why at least some of the Crossrail trains to Heathrow couldn't then go on to Reading/Maidenhead, but it would need to be done so that other Crossrail/Greater Western services continue to offer good journey times from stations like Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford to and from London - re-routing via Heathrow would likely add several minutes to the journey even if no reversal was required.
Thinking about it, if the 4 HEx paths every hour (or at least two of them) went from Paddington to Heathrow and then extended to Slough, Maidenhead, Twyford and Reading that might be one way of solving the capacity problems pathing wise as those trains would provide a more useful service than HEx itself - the demand for which, at its current levels at least, I doubt will exist after Crossrail. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on July 12, 2012, 17:50:46 I don't think HEX continues once Crossrail is built? I know Connect is subsumed into Crossrail
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 12, 2012, 18:02:34 I think HEx has access rights until 2023 after which it may well disappear or be incorporated into Crossrail. I suppose with BAA's agreement things could change before then, and perhaps dangling the carrot of the additional benefits of running it through from further afield might be a selling point, though it would have shades of the current Gatwick Express controversy. I don't think BAA would be happy with Crossrail taking over HEx services until 2023 unless they went fast from Paddington.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 12, 2012, 18:11:20 I don't think HEX continues once Crossrail is built? I know Connect is subsumed into Crossrail HEx does continue as it is now, on current (ie original Crossrail Act) plans. The idea of transfering HEx to Crossrail is analysed in the London and SE RUS, but it is still only a proposal. Next week's HLOS announcement may of course change that completely. Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 12, 2012, 19:18:05 The HeX should be axed and an additional 4 tph should extend to Heathrow from Crossrail, calling at Ealing Broadway and maybe H&H (for pathing, as I doubt they could run fast on the slow lines) or Old Oak Common when that opens. The 5 mins extra by the extra stops on the slows would be eaten up by not having to change at Padd.
The Gatwick Express should also be axed and a 12 car train run to Brighton every 15 mins calling at CJ, EC, Gatwick and Haywards Heath. I doubt any extra journey time will occur, as they have to crawl through on the congested lines. Off peak, 6 cars can be attached/detached at the airport so airport customers are not inconvenienced. The Stansted Express already makes a couple of sensible calls and doesn't actually go express. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: grahame on July 12, 2012, 19:24:11 I wonder what service levels would be deemed appropriate for such a link, given the limited capacity on the GWML? Personally, I can't see anything from too far afield running straight into Heathrow, as the market for Paddington is too strong that most paths will be taken up with trains to London. Perhaps a half-hourly semi-fast service from Reading calling at Twyford, Maidenhead, and Slough, which could possibly originate at Oxford/Newbury/Swindon? I note also your "via Heathrow to Reading" thoughts. Should we even look further out of the bag - at where people want to go from Heathrow, and forward much of the 15 years of the next franchise? Where do people who fly into Heathrow want to go? Let's see ... Southampton for a cruise. So - Heathrow - Reading - Winchester - Southmapton - Bournemouth hourly. The North and Cambridge - so Heathrow - Reading - Oxford - Bicester - Bletchley - Bedford - [Sandy, Cambridge, Norwich] hourly. And Heathrow - Reading - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham - Stoke - Manchester hourly. This is all wild speculation; does anyone have a demographics map showing Heathrow's traveller catchment (UK based) or destinations (from afar). And I may be out of step with some of our local businesses, but many of us welcome clients from all over the world and a direct service from Heathrow would be wonderful onto my own line. Travellers from Paddington are used to changing anyway, but a direct overseas link to the growing towns across Wiltshire would do wonders for us, and the overseas visitors are the ones who need minimal changes and would be happy with 7 or 8 stops on the way. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on July 12, 2012, 19:33:54 Today's aviation policy written statement includes: Yet another project proposed by NR in last September's shopping list. Maybe we should see it as a good omen for Bristol Metro, which is in the same document? Paul Indeed it is in the same document, Paul. Whether that augurs well, ill, or neither I don't know. The company you keep doesn't seem to matter in these things. Reading the CP5 output driver for Dr Days to Filton makes Four Tracking a no-brainer for me, and it looks like NR think so too. (My smaller brother Three Track Now! says I shouldn't be greedy, but I tell him it's for his benefit for when he's older). The amount of additional traffic that will be using that stretch of line will be massive, and it needs more capacity now. While it seems a bit churlish to tell the government "Thanks for the resignalling and the IEP and the ^100 million for Bristol Metro, but none of it will work properly without another ^57 million for Filton Bank", I think that's what will have to be said. The problem is that when you read any of the suggestions in the wish-list, they all look like absolute corkers, and they all impact on each other too. The rise in rail travel has been exponential, and shows no sign of slowing down. As rail is the government's preferred mode of mass transit, they will have to really bite the bullet this time, and favour rail over road projects for expenditure. Spending too little will be like a doctor giving you half the effective dose of a medicine. Here's hoping! Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 12, 2012, 19:50:01 I note also your "via Heathrow to Reading" thoughts. Should we even look further out of the bag - at where people want to go from Heathrow, and forward much of the 15 years of the next franchise? Where do people who fly into Heathrow want to go? Let's see ... Southampton for a cruise. So - Heathrow - Reading - Winchester - Southmapton - Bournemouth hourly. The North and Cambridge - so Heathrow - Reading - Oxford - Bicester - Bletchley - Bedford - [Sandy, Cambridge, Norwich] hourly. And Heathrow - Reading - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham - Stoke - Manchester hourly. Problem (as I see it) is that if the only trains that pass through Heathrow are on their way to/from 'Central London east of Paddington' (hence have to be Crossrail inner suburban high capacity stock) then destinations like Bournemouth wouldn't be that practical. However, if all four heavy rail platforms at the T5 station were through platforms then there should be adequate capacity to start through services from Paddington high level to longer distances, if not make T5 a terminus from the west for a subset of services. No doubt it will all end up a bit of a compromise...# Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: JayMac on July 12, 2012, 19:54:47 This is all wild speculation; does anyone have a demographics map showing Heathrow's traveller catchment (UK based) or destinations (from afar). This may be of some use: http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Catchment%20area%20analysis%20working%20paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf There is definitely a market for direct rail services to Heathrow from points west. Currently, if you want a direct journey by public transport your only option is National Express, who provide regular scheduled coach services, from many towns and cities, to Heathrow. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on July 12, 2012, 20:45:18 There is definitely a market for direct rail services to Heathrow from points west. Currently, if you want a direct journey by public transport your only option is National Express, who provide regular scheduled coach services, from many towns and cities, to Heathrow. Don't ever mention National Express to Heathrow in my presence again! Please - it brings back memories that my psychiatrist said should lie undisturbed. I agree there is a market. It's not just Bristol, remember, but Oxford, Swindon, Wales, Gloucester - a big list of frequent flyers. I thought ^500 million was steep, even by normal railway standards, but it's not just a right-turn onto the HEx track. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 12, 2012, 20:46:50 There are a couple of options, divert a Maidenhead (or if it happens Reading) Crossrail service via Heathrow, the HEX could be extended to Reading a Padd - Heathow - Reading shuttle.
On an aside the passive provision for an ac / dc interface at Reading is being actively looked at (again) so the Western access could be Reading via Staines ^500m don't buy much new railway nowadays Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 12, 2012, 21:43:07 Just have a decent fast service (perhaps one or two stops) from Reading to Heathrow every 15 or 30 minutes. Connections at Reading.
Plus a stopping service from Reading to Heathrow for locals. Instead of changing for a bus to the airport, change for a train. Post "Airtrack Lite", Woking can also become a "change for fast service to Heathrow" station. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 13, 2012, 10:17:55 Unfortunately between the competing interests of Crossrail, Hex, Heathrow Connect and the current local TV semis and stoppers from Reading and now the possibility of od Reading LHR service the likely patern of services on the line is getting really messy.
It seems to me somebody (but who?) should sit down and paln a proper servcie taking into account the new western junction. Firstly the turnback sidings for Crossrail at Maidenhead should be scrapped and Crossrail run to Reading as soon as it comes out of the tunnel at Royal Oak (2019). After all the lines should should be electrified by 2016. Further Crossrail should not be given the Relief lines it should be a 4 railway throughout to Didcot. They should also pick up the Newbury and Oxfords (reading and Slough) which currently run Mainline. Connect is scrapped and runs through to at least all stations Slough possibly Reading. How about Hex becoming part of Crossrail 4 trians an hour fast Eastbourne Terrace LHR? The trouble is that there is no boedy with teh authority to say right this is the plan. This is another of my rocks in a pond ideas. Can you improve the ripples. Otherwise after 2020 the local services in the TV are going to be a mess. Pity the passengers of Twyford and Maidenhead only having an all stations to Shenfield train via LHr. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 13, 2012, 10:28:05 Connect is scrapped and runs through to at least all stations Slough possibly Reading. How about Hex becoming part of Crossrail 4 trians an hour fast Eastbourne Terrace LHR? The trouble is that there is no body with the authority to say right this is the plan. Yes there is someone with the authority to make that plan. Crossrail already replaces HConnect, this has always been part of the deal. NR's London and SE RUS further does propose HEx becoming part of Crossrail, as part of its GWML capacity strategy. All it takes is DfT to agree that BAA/HAL can be bought out of their existing deal. That won't be easy, but it is the plan. Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 13, 2012, 10:35:56 There are a couple of options, divert a Maidenhead (or if it happens Reading) Crossrail service via Heathrow, the HEX could be extended to Reading a Padd - Heathow - Reading shuttle. On an aside the passive provision for an ac / dc interface at Reading is being actively looked at (again) so the Western access could be Reading via Staines ^500m don't buy much new railway nowadays I think ultimately they'll need both, ie there needs to be a junction immediately west of T5 with trains going both to Staines and to the GWML (by one of the routes you posted earlier from the CP5 proposals). I'm not sure the 'Airtracl' level of infrastructure is needed at Staines, it seems to me that when it comes to suburban EMUs a reversal during a station call is no big deal, and if Staines station was rebuilt to provide a third platform on the up side, trains to/from the Virginia Water direction could reverse at Staines in the middle road without much conflict at all... Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 13, 2012, 10:36:17 Should we even look further out of the bag - at where people want to go from Heathrow, and forward much of the 15 years of the next franchise? Where do people who fly into Heathrow want to go? Let's see ... Southampton for a cruise. So - Heathrow - Reading - Winchester - Southmapton - Bournemouth hourly. The North and Cambridge - so Heathrow - Reading - Oxford - Bicester - Bletchley - Bedford - [Sandy, Cambridge, Norwich] hourly. And Heathrow - Reading - Leamington Spa - Coventry - Birmingham - Stoke - Manchester hourly. There's an awful lot of potential destinations, but bear in mind that the Heathrow Tunnels are not passed for anything other than overhead electric trains though. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on July 13, 2012, 10:50:17 Crossrail already replaces HConnect, this has always been part of the deal. NR's London and SE RUS further does propose HEx becoming part of Crossrail, as part of its GWML capacity strategy. I knew I had read that somewhere. HEX's life as a standalone entity has a limited life. I believe their contract with NR for services has a date limit of something like 2018. Quote All it takes is DfT to agree that BAA/HAL can be bought out of their existing deal. That won't be easy, but it is the plan. See above - I understand that their contract is time-limited. Not sure if the BBC are speculating - or whether they got more info, but they seem to think there will be direct services from the west.... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-18817874#TWEET172297 Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: mjones on July 13, 2012, 11:01:59 Scrapping HEX as a separate service would make much better use of track and platform capacity. As currently planned Crossrail will leave a lot of local trains still terminating from the West while adding a whole lot more terminating from the East, which rather seems to undermine the purpose of creating a new through route at vast expense! There may be some concern about increased journey time if non-stop HEX services are replaced with stopping Crossrail ones, but for such a relatively short trip the greatly increased frequency, leading to reduced waiting times, and reduced need for interchange should more than compensate in terms of what transport modellers call 'Generalised Time'.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: grahame on July 13, 2012, 12:38:40 http://www.caa.co.uk/docs/5/Catchment%20area%20analysis%20working%20paper%20-%20FINAL.pdf Ah yes - thanks Page 36 - Heathrow Catchment (2010) - significant hottest spots outside the London area are Swindon, Bristol, Birmingham, Nottingham, Cambridge, Southampton, Portsmouth and Bournemouth. Page 55 - Foreign residents often travel for quite a long time from Heathrow; contrast to shorter journeys to LHR for UK residents on page 54. I'm thinking that 4 an hour from PAD to LHR - electric trains on to Bournmeouth, Birmingham, Cambridge and Bristol might do rather nicely in the (far?) future. Journey times on areas where there are clear passenger flows already would be cut anyway, and I think that newcomers to the UK would much prefer a slighly slower train than having to change? Once you get to Reading, you're probably NOT looking at new trains to Bournemouth nor Birmingham. Think about what already reverses there TWICE an hour, and look at carrying one on to Paddington Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stebbo on July 13, 2012, 20:29:09 The bigger issue here is surely whether the Government wishes (has the balls?) to look at airport capacity in the South East. If you were to build a new London airport in the Thames then why build a new link to Heathrow?
To my mind - as I've just written to my MP - the logical answer is to expand Heathrow so, yes, build the western link. But the Government needs to get a grip on the airport issue first. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 13, 2012, 21:06:05 For all the other options they talk about, Heathrow itself isn't ever likely to close is it?
I can foresee a situation where Heathrow is just dealing with cross Atlantic & South American traffic, and 'some other place' is taking over most routes to the east. Aren't there are also far too many freight shipping businesses around Heathrow to move them all somewhere else? Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 14, 2012, 08:57:07 I agree I cannot see the day when Heathrow is cleared for housing, the Heathrow economic foot print is to large for any Government to risk.
My thoughts on a service from the west would be HEX extended to Reading - Paddington - Heathrow - Reading "fast" possibly every 3 per hour with a Maidenhead (or Reading) Crossrail via Heathrow 2 per hour. It has to born in mind that BAA own the infrastructure from Airport Junction and set the fares so for anyone wanting to get off of a Crossrail service at Heathrow they would have to pay the "BAA surcharge" The other thing to take into the equation is "Airtrack lite" this would take up capacity in Heathrow (the project does have legs, the NR Route are doing feasibility studies), Airtrack lite I recall from an earlier post / thread has been included in the GW franchise (I could be wrong) Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 15, 2012, 09:33:33 The other thing to take into the equation is "Airtrack lite" this would take up capacity in Heathrow (the project does have legs, the NR Route are doing feasibility studies), Airtrack lite I recall from an earlier post / thread has been included in the GW franchise (I could be wrong) It was, and I think there was a a few people wondering why that was at the time the consultation came out. It does makes sense to mention it if at some time in the next franchise it was up and running in conjunction with Western Access. You could see two types of services over Airtrack lite; maybe from Crossrail as far as Staines and terminating there, and other overlapping services from the SWT network such as Reading that ran only to Heathrow. Things in neighbouring areas seem to be mentioned in ITTs even if they are nothing much to do with the franchise in question's future operations. I assume it is if they might impact on future fares revenue, even if only slightly. Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 15, 2012, 15:54:20 Crossrail to Staines is unlikely the Crossrail trains are single traction, therefore Airtrack lite which is W'loo - Heathrow will have to be dual traction with an ac / dc interface between Staines and T5. Although there is a GRIP 2 study into converting some dc lines to ac any conversion is not likely to happen until CP6 (i.e. at least 10 years time)
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 15, 2012, 16:54:13 Forgot that they weren't going to allow OHLE across Staines Moor. I had an idea that for Crosrrail perhaps Staines could be the end of the wires, and trains off the SW could change during a Staines call. But having to use dual voltage on Crossrail is probably a step too far...
Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 15, 2012, 18:49:03 But having to use dual voltage on Crossrail is probably a step too far... Yep to the extent that at Abbey Wood it will be a segregated railway, the only connection between the North Kent Lines and Crossrail is a non-electrified engineers standage line Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stebbo on July 15, 2012, 21:00:54 I can foresee a situation where Heathrow is just dealing with cross Atlantic & South American traffic, and 'some other place' is taking over most routes to the east.
But doesn't this cause a problem with connecting flights into Europe/the rest of the UK as you have to duplicate them from "somewhere else"? I recently travelled out from Heathrow from one terminal and returned to another - that's irritating enough. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 20, 2012, 22:01:17 Brum airport can double its flights - it will become a new terminal for Heathrow, with HS2 providing regular 30 minute long services between them.
Gatwick can have a 2nd runway. There is room for 3 more runways at Stansted (although ancient Woodland would have to be axed to make way) Of course, what we need to do is build Boris Island with 4 runways so planes can take off and land every minute over water 24 hrs a day without keeping half of London awake. With that capacity you could close Heathrow, Gatwick, Luton, Standsted, Southend and Kent and still have room for more! The third runway will affect thousands of people in North West London who's homes will be blighted by constant noise and fumes all day forever! This is unacceptable, even without the homes/schools/churches that will have to be bulldozed to make way. ..."Airtrack lite" this would take up capacity in Heathrow ... Actually, in a wonderful piece of forward planning, space for two terminal platforms exists at Terminal 5 station for Airtrack. Airtrack Lite must happen, there is no reason for it not to. I can't believe they're doing studies, it's a no brainer! And for goodness sake, will someone announce the extension of Crossrail to Reading and Gravesend before I scream!!! >:( >:( >:( Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ellendune on July 20, 2012, 22:33:09 You don't need all these. If you build Boris Island then Heathrow would close - according to the plan - and airtrack would be redundant.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 21, 2012, 00:33:52 You don't need all these. If you build Boris Island then Heathrow would close - according to the plan - and airtrack would be redundant. I'm assuming Boris Island isn't going to get built. ;) Of course, what we need to do is build Boris Island... With that capacity you could close Heathrow... Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on July 22, 2012, 22:37:35 Gatwick already has two runways - look at the chart (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-8B4B8FC84396C30BD5BACC7370E1491C/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/NON_AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGKK_2-1_en_2012-06-28.pdf). Admittedly, they are too close together to use simultaneously. Heathrow is in the worst possible place, to the west of a major city, with the predominant windflow from the west. Paris has major airports north (Le Bourget and Charles de Gaulle) and south (Orly) of the city, meaning that flights do not overfly the most populated areas. Boris Island makes perfect sense. Build it first, with high-speed rail into London, the use Heathrow for housing or industry, and you might even make a profit. It will never happen.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on July 23, 2012, 10:03:50 Having spent the night in Windsor recently, I was woken to the sound of jets coming in to land with a flight path directly over Windsor and the Castle. Whilst they more normally come in to land from the west it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes!
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 23, 2012, 10:10:54 Having spent the night in Windsor recently, I was woken to the sound of jets coming in to land with a flight path directly over Windsor and the Castle. Whilst they more normally come in to land from the west it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes! They say that an American once asked staff why they built Windor Castle in the flightpath. ::) Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on July 23, 2012, 15:32:20 Having spent the night in Windsor recently, I was woken to the sound of jets coming in to land with a flight path directly over Windsor and the Castle. Whilst they more normally come in to land from the west it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes! With 3ft plus tick walls i don't think noise is too much of an issue inside the castle Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: WSW Frome on July 23, 2012, 17:20:57 Gatwick Airport only has a single runway and that is a planning condition that was imposed when the "modern" airport was first built. This planning condition has several years to run before any new application could be submitted (I have not checked the dates). The parallel track is the TAXIWAY.
An aircraft did land on the taxiway once and the pilot got something of a surprise and no doubt followed by extensive "retraining" in ?Siberia. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on July 23, 2012, 17:48:53 It's definitely also usable as a runway though, it would be used if the main runway was undergoing maintenance.
Quote Runway Length 26L/08R: 3316m x 46m Runway Length 26R/08L: 2565m x 45m - this runway used only when 26L/08R is not available. http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm The 'no 2nd runway' rule runs until August 2019. Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 23, 2012, 18:08:52 Good, so a second one can be added there affecting fewer people than at Heathrow!
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Surrey 455 on July 24, 2012, 23:09:56 it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes! My understanding is that when the Queen is in residence aircraft are diverted away from Windsor. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: JayMac on July 24, 2012, 23:33:54 it did strike me as odd that the queen might have to put up with that racket every couple of minutes! My understanding is that when the Queen is in residence aircraft are diverted away from Windsor. Really? Does Brenda really have the power to divert the hundreds of flights in and out of Heathrow on a day to day basis? Does she pay for the Air Traffic Control diversions that would be necessary to ensure that there are no flights over Windsor Castle when she's in residence? Does the Govt. make a telephone call to southern England ATC informing them that HMQ will be bedding down at Windsor Castle and asking kindly if they wouldn't mind diverting flights so that Brenda won't be disturbed? I think not. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 25, 2012, 07:55:30 As i can see the flight path over Windsor I can assure you it makes no difference if she is residence or not. It depends on the wind nd what way they are landing.
It is when they are landing from the West when it is most noticeble as they start coming off the stacks over Maidenhead and as far out as Woodley and then form an orderley queue 3 miles apart. Not quite over the castle but along side it. I can often see three or more planes in line coming in to land. Take off to the West is not a problem they either fly North over my house or turn South over Staines avoiding the Castle. The Normal flight pattern with a Westerly wind or very light winds is in over London and out as I say over my house. Althiough that changes depending on if they are using the Burnham Beacon. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Tim on July 25, 2012, 10:03:55 It's definitely also usable as a runway though, it would be used if the main runway was undergoing maintenance. Quote Runway Length 26L/08R: 3316m x 46m Runway Length 26R/08L: 2565m x 45m - this runway used only when 26L/08R is not available. http://www.ukaccs.info/profiles.htm The 'no 2nd runway' rule runs until August 2019. Paul It is used when the main runway is undergoing maintenance. There was a problem a few months ago where the planned maintenance meant that the secondary runway was being used and un-seasonal fog reduced capacity on the secondary runway (which lacks all the instruments required for landing in fog) Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on July 25, 2012, 17:30:02 Out of interest, is there a website with maps of the flightpaths?
Apparently, they have to be very careful, as Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport! Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on August 11, 2012, 11:18:58 Out of interest, is there a website with maps of the flightpaths? Apparently, they have to be very careful, as Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport! All the information is in the in the Aeronautical Information Service (http://www.nats-uk.ead-it.com/public/index.php%3Foption=com_content&task=blogcategory&id=94&Itemid=143.html) website. This chart (http://www.ead.eurocontrol.int/eadbasic/pamslight-00BFAEB585C87C9F5074D228ABB4B8FB/7FE5QZZF3FXUS/EN/Charts/AD/AIRAC/EG_AD_2_EGLL_7-12_en_2011-06-02.pdf) shows, for example, how the aircraft leave the stacks at Biggin Hill or Ockenham to follow the approach path to line up to land on runways 09L or 09R. At the point on the chart marked I-AA D10 or I-BB D10, about 6 miles west of Windsor, the aircraft descend to 2500 feet, on a 3 degree glidepath. I reckon that puts them below 1500' as they pass a mile or so south of the Castle. Inbound flights are generally quieter than outgoing flights. For the latter, noise abatement procedures are in place, as described by eightf48455, although probably won't make much difference to Her Majesty. The change of runway in use during the day helps to spread the misery, and give some relief. Modern aircraft, with high bypass engines, are much quieter than their predecessors. Flights arrive and depart into the wind, which dictates the direction. The prevailing wind is from the west, although in fine weather it tends to be from the east. This, more than anything, shows why Heathrow is in the wrong place, as all flights arrive or depart over London. Paris has its major airports north and south of Paris, giving a lot less flying over heavily populated areas. Being careful over City airport is a bit of a red herring. Pilots are careful everywhere as a rule. Heathrow is in Category A airspace, and you are not allowed in there without an air traffic controller directing your every move. City airport is in Category D airspace. That is controlled to a lesser extent, but you cannot enter the zone without clearance. There are standard instrument arrival and departure procedures for each airport, designed to keep the aircraft at a safe distance from each other. You need not be alarmed, someone has thought about this. If you flew directly down the runway at London City, with no control inputs or wind, you would pass over Heathrow and Filton. During the current sports event in London, just about everywhere east of Oxford is being treated as one big control zone, with the threat of being joined by a Eurofighter or getting a missile up the jacksie if you don't do what you are told.[/THREADDRIFT] Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Surrey 455 on August 11, 2012, 17:40:21 Heathrow landing planes fly over City airport! If you look at the live flights map at http://www.flightradar24.com/ you'll often see a Ryanair or other flight flying north over Heathrow on it's way from Europe to Stansted or other airports. They're at a much higher altitude though.In the following screenshot I didn't have time to wait for this to happen but here's a Stansted bound plane flying over Hounslow. It's the red plane. Sometimes I can watch this site for an hour or so clicking on each plane to see where it's going. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: JayMac on August 11, 2012, 19:46:57 Virtual planespotting. I like it!!!
Can we have similar for National Rail please? I know there's a TfL train tracking site as well one for services operated by East Coast, but UK wide would be cool. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on August 11, 2012, 20:41:05 If you look at the live flights map at http://www.flightradar24.com/ you'll often see a Ryanair or other flight flying north over Heathrow on it's way from Europe to Stansted or other airports. They're at a much higher altitude though. Which is no accident. Passenger jets follow clearly defined airways when under control of a traffic controller - the one over Heathrow is designated L9, and is 10 NM wide. Altitude depends on direction. Above FL 245 (which is 24500' with altimeter set to 1013.25 HPa, so that all the big boys measure height the same way), flights with a magnetic track between 0 and 179 degrees fly at odd numbered levels, 180 to 359 degrees at even numbers. Routing flights via large airports makes for great visual reference points, plus radio beacons and radar service, and somewhere with emergency facilities to glide to land if everything goes quiet unexpectedly. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Btline on August 11, 2012, 23:44:56 Wow - what an amazing website! Thanks for sharing. Now I'll know what planes fly over my house at 30,000 ft leaving streaks (but thankfully no noise, so presumably at 30,000 ft)
- although it's made me feel sorry for those living near Heathrow as a Quantas jet has just taken off at 11.45pm eastbound flying right over South West London. Not fair for residents trying to sleep. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Rhydgaled on August 12, 2012, 00:43:45 Virtual planespotting. I like it!!! I've not heard about an East Coast train-tracking site. Is it like the aircraft site posted just above where it gives the type of aircraft (for East Coast I'm thinking does it identify which trains are IC125s and which are IC225s, and whether they are short-formed/in reverse formation and things like that)?Can we have similar for National Rail please? I know there's a TfL train tracking site as well one for services operated by East Coast, but UK wide would be cool. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: JayMac on August 12, 2012, 00:53:56 The East Coast map only features one train, that has been fitted with a GPS tracker. The headcode for whatever service (timetabled or ECS) the set is on is included:
http://bbarker.co.uk/eastCoast/ Currently shacked up for the night at Heaton TMD. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 27, 2013, 23:01:52 From the Reading Chronicle (http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2013/02/27/87052-moving-forward-with-transport/?#):
Quote Shadow transport secretary Maria Eagle says the ambitious ^500m western rail link to Heathrow is key to rejuvenating the British economy. The senior Labour MP welcomed the plans when she visited Reading last Wednesday to host a party policy forum canvassing supporters' views on transport services ahead of creating a blueprint for the party's 2015 election manifesto. Speaking before the meeting at the Cornwell Centre in Tilehurst, the MP for Liverpool's Garston and Halewood constituency said: "It's sensible increasing connectivity to Heathrow. Airports and other transport centres are an important way of increasing economic growth and we are supportive of it." By 2021, the proposed Western Rail Access to Heathrow (WRAtH) will provide direct rail services from Reading to the airport, slashing journey times to 28 minutes. Companies in this area spend up to ^10m annually on taxi fares to Heathrow because train travellers face either face a lengthy detour through London or catching Rail Air link buses from Reading Station which take 40 minutes to complete the road journey. The rail link, backed by the Thames Valley Berkshire Local Enterprise Partnership (LEP), would serve Reading with four trains every hour, with two services calling at Maidenhead and Twyford and options include building a tunnel linking the Western Mainline east of Langley with platforms already built at Terminal 5. Ms Eagle who also met Reading West electoral candidate Victoria Groulef, warned spiralling rail fares and Government plans for 'super peak' tickets - which could see passengers paying more to travel at the busiest times in an attempt to reduce overcrowding - are taking their toll on passengers and added: "There are hard pressed commuters in Reading trying to get to work and they can't take much more of a squeeze. They are seeing their cost of living going up and fares going up." Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stebbo on March 04, 2013, 21:25:24 What if they decide to close Heathrow (unlikely, I know)? Surely the decision on the western link should follow the decision on the airport's location? Which says, hurry up and get on with it.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ellendune on March 04, 2013, 21:54:52 Mind you a taxi from Swindon is cheaper than the Train via Paddington & HEX full fare!
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: swrural on March 04, 2013, 22:26:37 Is there market analysis on Heathrow pax market from the west country? We have existing Reading Link data (somebody has). All I remember is that in the analysis of the West Coast traffic to Heathrow, it was estimated at 10% of the total flow to the London area. That resulted in the Lord Malwhinney recommendation not to send HS2 to Heathrow but to stop off at OOC (and then just some of the services).
I find it difficult to envisage that flows from the GW area would justify a better link than that which failed to be feasible from the North West. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on March 05, 2013, 00:30:58 I think the pax numbers from the West country to Heathrow will be only part of the calculation. There will be opportunities for faster travel to Heathrow from Wales, Oxford, even the likes of Birmingham. Although I have flown from Heathrow on holiday a couple of times, it is seen primarily as the departure point for those carrying a briefcase rather than a bucket and spade, and the quality of traveller is likely to have some impact, as well as the quantity. It will also have some impact on the number of passengers travelling between Reading and Paddington, as anyone from west of there heading for LHR will have a choice other than bus or Paddington then back by HEX.
It is not only air passengers who will benefit. I have read that more people work in Heathrow than in the entire city of Newcastle. That may be apocryphal, but Heathrow has around 70,000 employees including franchises, not all of whom live in nearby Staines. When this scheme is operational, it will provide extra direct services from Woking and Bracknell, as well as Waterloo, Clapham Jct, Guildford, and a few other places. In short, it will link a major employment zone with several high-density residential areas, some of which are not easily accessed by public transport, as well as connecting the west to Heathrow. In terms of benefit cost ratio, it will score highly. The new infrastructure will be following existing very busy roads (mainly the M25) or be underground. No outstanding beauty issues have been identified. Some level crossings will be closed more than now however, and the consultation has addressed that point, if not resolved it. This could be a situation where the skills of the demographist and the statistician prove to be crucial, and possibly more important than those of the civil engineer. There may also be development effects along the routes concerned, and my guess is that this development will be followed by universities, to inform future opinion. I don't think the value of this project is influenced to any great degree by the Heathrow / Boris Island argument. My own thinking is that the Boris island idea is a goer, and that Heathrow should not have survived the 1950s, but that major infrastructure decisions are seldom driven by anything other than the potents for the next election. We are therefore stuck with the imperfect Heathrow for many years. A western rail link will ameliorate the problems that causes. Or solves. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on March 05, 2013, 16:20:25 Heathrow workers live over a wide area but the further away from Heathrow, the numbers fall. Here in Hanborough I know someone who works at Heathrow (reason: housing much more affordable). However he travels to and from work by private car and says that it is relatively quick as he works permanent nightshifts on aircraft maintenance leaving Hanborough for work around mid evening and returning home early morning when the heavy trafic flows are in the other direction.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on March 05, 2013, 17:01:07 There would be uproar from the taxi drivers in the Maidenhead area when the western rail connection is made, they thrive on the fact the buses are pants almost 2 hours and the current rail journey is a pain with the over bridge interchange at Hayes where there is no lifts to help with luggage.
There does not need to be passenger numbers to justify it the creation of new journey opportunities is also a perfectly acceptable case for the DfT Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on March 05, 2013, 23:42:08 It will also give extra capacity between Hayes and Langley a couple of Crossrail trains going via the Airport can be overtaken by Padd Reading Semis on the Relief line.
One point what will the fare be? Will there be a stupidly excessive add on like Hayes to Heathrow on the Connect. Presuambly passnegers will be able to catch trains from Langley and westwards going via the airport at the same price as along the main line. Just a thought! Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2013, 09:33:28 Doubt it - the infrastructure in place from the Airport to Airport Junction is owned by the airport operator, not NR.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on March 06, 2013, 09:45:39 Doubt it - the infrastructure in place from the Airport to Airport Junction is owned by the airport operator, not NR. What a crazy world we live in! Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2013, 10:30:36 Doubt it - the infrastructure in place from the Airport to Airport Junction is owned by the airport operator, not NR. Might that situation change should this through link get built though? Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2013, 10:40:06 Why should it - I bet they're making good money....
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: swrural on March 06, 2013, 10:54:02 I looked up a fare. ^5.60 for 4 kms as the crow flies. ^1.40 per mile, correct me if I am wrong.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2013, 11:07:34 Because the nature of the service will be completely different. The present structure was determined when all that would operate is a designated Heathrow Express link operated by BAA. As a through service will presumably be operating when the western link is operational, then BAA will not be operating those services (again presumably) and I can see the link becoming more of a proper National Rail route and then it would make sense for Network Rail to take over full responsibility for it - after all, they might not own it, but they do still maintain it.
Either that, or you have a high surcharge for travelling on a through service from, say Slough to Ealing Broadway that goes via the airport (can't see that happening), or you only pay the surcharge if your journey is actually to/from one of the airport stations. Personally, I can see BAA being 'persuaded' to give up Heathrow Express operation and hand it over to the National Rail network when this link goes live. There are already murmurings of significant changes to the HEx services as a result of Crossrail. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2013, 11:10:54 When does the HEx contract expire with NR?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on March 06, 2013, 11:25:51 HEx track access expires in 2023 I believe, from memory of a discussion somewhere last year. About 10 more years anyway.
There are a number of different options for the mid '20s covering Heathrow in the London ands SE RUS, including for example a maximum of 10 tph from Crossrail subsuming both HEx and Connect. Western Access is also considered, with as many as 8 through trains. Too much to repeat here really... Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2013, 11:31:45 HEx track access expires in 2023 I believe, from memory of a discussion somewhere last year. About 10 more years anyway. Perfect timing? Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2013, 11:33:29 That's why I asked the Q....
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on March 06, 2013, 12:06:20 If the length of the original TAA was intended to give them enough time (25 years from '98?) to cover most of their capital costs of the airport branch and tunnels, perhaps it's all been part of an overall cunning plan anyway...
Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on March 06, 2013, 12:12:21 That's why I asked the Q.... And that's why I suggested things might change when you made your 'Why should it?' and 'Doubt it' posts this morning. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: TonyK on March 06, 2013, 14:00:26 I looked up a fare. ^5.60 for 4 kms as the crow flies. ^1.40 per mile, correct me if I am wrong. Correction - ^1.40 per km, or ^2.253 per mile. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: swrural on March 06, 2013, 16:02:02 I looked up a fare. ^5.60 for 4 kms as the crow flies. ^1.40 per mile, correct me if I am wrong. Correction - ^1.40 per km, or ^2.253 per mile. Well, I did ask. :D My mainland background has led to a split personality. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on October 09, 2013, 19:34:06 A preferred route is likely to be announced very soon:
http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2013/10/09/93876-final-route-for-500m-western-rail-access-to-heathrow-to-be-announced-by-end-of-year/ (http://www.sloughobserver.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2013/10/09/93876-final-route-for-500m-western-rail-access-to-heathrow-to-be-announced-by-end-of-year/) Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 05, 2014, 13:50:34 BBC news were reporting that Network Rail have announced their proposed plan, involving a "5-mile tunnel under Heathrow". I can't find it on their website yet, but there is this (http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Direct-rail-link-from-the-west-to-Heathrow-could-be-in-place-by-2021-1fbb.aspx) news release from NR. It says the proposals have been "laid out", but not where.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Jason on February 05, 2014, 16:38:12 I also found this http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2014/02/05/97438-route-unveiled-for-western-rail-access-to-heathrow-wrath-project/ (http://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/roundup/articles/2014/02/05/97438-route-unveiled-for-western-rail-access-to-heathrow-wrath-project/)
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 05, 2014, 16:57:22 ...and here's the Network Rail source press release:
Quote 1. If planning permission is granted, Network Rail would begin initial highways enabling work at the end of 2016, with tunnel enabling work starting in early 2018. The project would be complete in 2021. 2. The proposals would see a new junction created between Langley and Iver stations, linking with a 5km tunnel for trains to access Heathrow Terminal 5. 3. Network Rail will need to secure a Development Consent Order (DCO) to deliver the Western Rail Access Programme. A steering group of industry leaders, from organisations including Network Rail, Department for Transport, Thames Valley Berkshire LEP, Slough Borough Council and Heathrow Airport, is working together to progress the proposals. http://www.networkrailmediacentre.co.uk/News-Releases/Direct-rail-link-from-the-west-to-Heathrow-could-be-in-place-by-2021-1fbb.aspx Paul Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: wabbit on February 06, 2014, 07:16:22 For completeness sake here's a link to WrATH news release as well.
http://thamesvalleyberkshire.co.uk/NewsDetails/rail-access-to-heathrow-route-announced-4026 (http://thamesvalleyberkshire.co.uk/NewsDetails/rail-access-to-heathrow-route-announced-4026) Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on February 06, 2014, 11:58:28 Having seen it on BBC South my wife's just asked will the trains stop at Taplow?
Ideally it should be served by the 4 tph Crossrail trains running through to Reading. May need an extra platform at Heathrow Termainl 3 for the terminal 4 shuttle plus a double junction to eliminate the double slip thta all trains from Terminal 3 to T4 and T5 have to pass over in each direstion. Would one still need Heathrow Express and Connect? That would be some integration for the "Bean Counters" in the Treasury to get their heads around and transfer the money into the right buckets. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: IndustryInsider on February 06, 2014, 16:46:16 You and your bean counters! ;) I'd say there would be a good chance of services using Taplow going via Heathrow, yes. It all depends what sacrifices are deemed sensible journey time wise I guess, as I would expect 3-5 minutes to be added to through journeys that go via Heathrow which might be enough to put some of the players off. Heathrow Connect will cease to be long before this service starts. I'd put money on Heathrow Express going the same way eventually, too.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on February 06, 2014, 17:22:21 Having seen it on BBC South my wife's just asked will the trains stop at Taplow? Ideally it should be served by the 4 tph Crossrail trains running through to Reading. May need an extra platform at Heathrow Termainl 3 for the terminal 4 shuttle plus a double junction to eliminate the double slip thta all trains from Terminal 3 to T4 and T5 have to pass over in each direstion. Would one still need Heathrow Express and Connect? That would be some integration for the "Bean Counters" in the Treasury to get their heads around and transfer the money into the right buckets. The Heathrow Connect ceases when Crossrail commences in 2019, my guess in 2021 there will be 2 tph to Reading via Heathrow, 2 tph to reading via West Drayton to Reading and perhaps a further 2 tph terminating at Maidenhead, the route via Heathrow will not be quick and is likely to be all stops Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 10, 2014, 16:55:19 Here's Heathrow Express's idea for a service:
Quote Heathrow has announced its ambition to run its Express service to Slough and Reading along a new link from the Great Western Main line, due to be built by 2021. The Great Western Main Line currently runs from Swansea, through Cardiff, before going on to Reading and London Paddington. Under plans announced by Network Rail last week, a new rail link will join the main line directly to Heathrow, meaning rail passengers travelling from the west will no longer have to double-back on themselves via Paddington. Heathrow Express is looking to operate services on the link between Heathrow, Reading and Slough, which would see journey times to the hub airport reduce from 55 minutes to under 30 for passengers journeying from Reading, and from 40 minutes to 10 from Slough. https://www.heathrowexpress.com/news/2014-02-09-ambition-for-heathrow-reading-express-service-unveiled Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Windsorian on February 17, 2014, 05:27:10 The 4 tph Crossrail service Paddington to Maidenhead from December 2019 was only an indicative proposal i.e. subject to review.
Crossrail trains are due to take over the Heathrow Connect service when its contract expires in May 2018, though this may initially be from Paddington mainline station before moving later to the new underground Crossrail station. Network Rail's WRAP (Western Rail Access Programme) is costed at ^500M though we don't yet know what Heathrow's contribution will be ... if any ! Recently Heathrow had it's contribution to Crossrail reduced from a proposed ^230M to just ^70M on the grounds that LHR is almost full and will not be able to accept more passengers. Heathrow Express is the most expensive rail journey in the world; even more expensive per mile than travelling on the Orient Express. Network Rail in their July 2011 L&SE RUS proposed Crossrail takes over the Paddington / Heathrow route when the HEx contract expires in 2023; this would free up platforms 6 & 7 at Paddington and 4 tph fast line slots for additional services to the West of Reading. There are no plans at present to stop at Taplow. Slough's WRAtH proposal on which WRAP is based, is proposing a 4 tph service from T5 with 4 tph at Slough, 2 tph at Maidenhead, 2 tph at Twyford and 4 tph at Reading; this is how the projected time of 27 minutes from T5 to Reading has been calculated. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Umberleigh on February 17, 2014, 09:53:06 ....
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: John R on February 17, 2014, 10:50:26 Looks like HEx are desperate to find a reason to keep their existence post 2023 (or even earlier as I expect their business to plummet post Crossrail.) Why would we want another operator when Crossrail and whoever runs the GW franchise are running services in the area?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Windsorian on February 17, 2014, 11:25:40 @ John R
Fully agree; think it unlikely passengers from East of Paddington will want to change trains to HEx, particularly if the NR skip / stop station proposal is adopted for Crossrail trains West of Paddington. Already some Gatwick Express trains have been extended to Brighton, the days of half empty airport trains being allowed valuable track space when mainline passengers have to stand - appears to be over. No doubt the competitors for the new GWR franchise will be viewing the 4tph HEx fast slots with envy. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: grahame on February 17, 2014, 11:36:32 Fully agree; think it unlikely passengers from East of Paddington will want to change trains to HEx, particularly if the NR skip / stop station proposal is adopted for Crossrail trains West of Paddington. Already some Gatwick Express trains have been extended to Brighton... Silly question - what about "AIRPORT express" - [Reading], Heathrow, Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick, [Brighton]? Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: John R on February 17, 2014, 11:42:24 Sounds like an excellent idea.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Andrew1939 from West Oxon on February 17, 2014, 11:54:20 Would it be possible for Grahame's suggestion of an AIRPORT express service to run now from Heathrow to Gatwick? I understand that improvements are being done now (or shortly) to improve capacity at Gatwick so that the current hourly Reading/Gatwick service via the North Downs Line can be improved to half-hourly frequency and a through service (hourly) from Oxford to Gatwick would also be attractive with the Reading underpass being brought back into use. At present many Oxford area resident6s use the frequent coach service from Oxford to Heathrow and Gatwick, some simply because they do not like to change at Reading.
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Windsorian on February 17, 2014, 12:09:59 Quote Silly question - what about "AIRPORT express" - [Reading], Heathrow, Ealing Broadway, Kensington Olympia, Clapham Junction, East Croydon, Gatwick, [Brighton]? Looks like a Heathwick type proposal but would have the advantage of not requiring Paddington platforms; the problem is it would miss out Twyford, Maidenhead & Slough which are part of the WRAtH proposal for linking Reading to Heathrow. Quote Would it be possible for Grahame's suggestion of an AIRPORT express service to run now from Heathrow to Gatwick? The Airports Commission have suggested a Heathrow southern route be investigated again, taking over from where the Airtrack proposal left off. One of the Airtrack routes was a semi-fast service from T5 to Guildford; this could be extended over an improved North Downs line to Gatwick. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: wabbit on February 19, 2014, 07:59:27 It would be good to see Airtrack resurrected again, but any new proposal will have to deal with the level crossing issue that got so many local residents riled up. A timely dovetail with the NR crossing closure program might kill two birds with the same stone?
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Windsorian on February 19, 2014, 09:10:50 Quote ...Airtrack resurrected ...... the level crossing issue The NR crossing closure program has mainly been isolated crossings in rural areas; the problem with Airtrack was the level crossings are in heavily trafficked urban areas. The July 2012 L&SE RUS (Option J3) proposed as an interim measure extending the existing HEx line from T5 to a re-built Staines station , allowing time for a measured review of the level crossing problem. Also it is questionable if Reading needs a semi-fast Airtrack service via Staines to T5, when WRAP (WRAtH) will provide a similar service via the GWML. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 19, 2014, 10:18:32 The Airtrack TWA was really about extending the line from T5 to Staines - reinstating it, if you prefer - in the sense that that was the only unavoidable bit of major works. I was always baffled that it need to have all this detailed consideration of how many trains run over a level crossing miles away. TWAs don't usually say much if anything about services - look at the one for Reading, it has not a word.
So why not just do that bit, and have all the arguments about the value of protecting Staines Moor from having a railway squeezed in alongside the M25, and extend trains to Staines ASAP. In terms of journey opportunities or travel times to the Airport that give 80-90% of the benefits of the whole Airtrack scheme. Any ideas about direct trains further, and putting in (or, again, reinstating) the Chord, need to be justified against changing at Staines. How many trains run through Wokingham is an entirely separate issue. No-one really expected Airtrack to be a stand-alone branded service anyway, and if it ran as part of an SWT franchise that would set the service level. (Though I do wonder whether DfT could or would set a maximum number of trains to protect road users at the crossing.) The other big issue that would need to be dealt with at this first stage is rail traffic (i.e. passengers) through Heathrow. The various parties have different interests in this, most obviously HAL who would like to prevent it altogether. Transport systems types would love an interchange at the airport, though I suspect the T5 "box" may not be big enough to hold all their aspirations at once. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Windsorian on February 19, 2014, 10:48:10 @ stuving
Fully agree T5 - Staines is a stand alone project, with no road level crossings along its route. Also it does not require a dedicated fleet of trains with a special maintenance depot at Feltham, which accounted for much of the cost. My own opinion is BAA threw the baby out with the bath water, when they cancelled the whole Airtrack project. Title: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on January 31, 2015, 13:41:54 From NR website - link in the article below
Quote A new direct rail link connecting the west to Heathrow will improve passenger journeys to the UK^s busiest airport and help to increase economic productivity across the Thames Valley. We are developing plans for a new rail tunnel leaving the Great Western main line between Langley and Iver to London Heathrow, allowing passengers to travel to the airport from Reading via Slough without going into Paddington station. The investment will help: For passengers ^Reduce journey times via rail between Reading and Heathrow Airport ^Provide direct trains between Reading and Heathrow ^Improve access to Heathrow from the South coast, South West, South Wales and West Midlands ^Reduce congestion at Paddington station Wider benefits ^Provide over ^800 million worth of UK economic activity, including additional economic benefits for the region ^Create potential for 42,000 new jobs ^Make CO2 savings equating to 1 million road passenger journeys ^Give 20% of the UK population access to Heathrow via one interchange ^Help to provide much needed congestion relief for the M4, M25 and M3 motorways Public consultation We are holding a programme of events in the local community and are keen to hear your thoughts on the plans. Come and talk to our project teams at our fully staffed events at the following locations: Iver Parish Council Pavilion: Jubilee Pavilion, Iver Recreation Ground, Iver SL0 9PW Tuesday 10 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Wednesday 11 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Thursday 12 February: 6pm ^ 8pm Richings Park Sports Club: Wellesley Avenue, Richings Park, Iver, SL0 9BN Friday 13 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Saturday 14 February: 12pm ^ 4pm Thursday 26 February: 4pm ^ 8pm Friday 27 February: 12pm ^ 6pm Saturday 28 February: 12pm ^ 4pm Colnbrook Village Hall: Vicarage Way, Slough, Buckinghamshire SL3 0RF Monday 23 February: 3pm ^ 7pm Tuesday 24 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Wednesday 25 February: 2pm ^ 6pm You will also be able to pick up one of our information leaflets at our exhibits in the following stations: Heathrow Terminal 5 train station Monday 16 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Heathrow Terminal 1, 2, 3 train station Tuesday 17 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Reading Station Wednesday 18 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Thursday 19 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Slough Station Friday 20 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Saturday 21 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm We hope to see you at one of our events. You will also soon be able to leave comments on the proposals on our consultation site. A link to the site will be made available here (http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/western-rail-link-to-heathrow/improving-rail-links-to-heathrow/) prior to the time of the first consultation event. In the meantime, if you have any questions about the event you can email our project team at westernheathrowlink@networkrail.co.uk 1.Early 2015: Informal public consultation 2.Summer 2015: Formal public consultation 3.Early 2016: Submission of application 4.Spring / Summer 2017: Work to start on site 5.End of 2021: Work complete / trains running Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: BerkshireBugsy on February 06, 2015, 08:10:49 On my our local radio station (which I call dross FM due to choice of music and inane talk) there was a news article which refered to the proposed rail link from Heathrow to Reading - but I can't find anything new about this ? Have I missed something ?
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on February 06, 2015, 09:06:54 You certainly have!.....
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/improvements/western-rail-link-to-heathrow/improving-rail-links-to-heathrow/ Quote Improving rail links to Heathrow A new direct rail link connecting the west to Heathrow will improve journeys to the UK^s busiest airport and help increase economic productivity across the Thames valley We are developing plans for a new rail tunnel leaving the Great Western main line between Langley and Iver to London Heathrow, allowing passengers to travel to the airport from Reading via Slough without going into Paddington station. Benefits For passengers ^Reduce rail journey times between Reading and Heathrow. ^Direct trains between Reading and Heathrow. ^Improved access to Heathrow from the south coast, south west, south Wales and west midlands. ^Reduced congestion at Paddington station. Wider benefits ^Over ^800 million of UK economic activity, including additional economic benefits for the region. ^Create potential for 42,000 new jobs. ^Make CO2 savings equating to 1 million road passenger journeys. ^Give 20 per cent of the UK population access to Heathrow via one interchange. ^Help to provide much needed congestion relief for the M4, M25 and M3. Public consultation We are holding a programme of events in the local community and are keen to hear your thoughts on the plans. Come and talk to our project teams at our fully staffed events at the following locations: Iver Parish Council Pavillion:Jubilee Pavilion, Iver Recreation Ground, Iver SL0 9PW Tuesday 10 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Wednesday 11 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Thursday 12 February: 6pm ^ 8pm Richings Park Sports Club: Wellesley Avenue, Richings Park, Iver, SL0 9BN Friday 13 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Saturday 14 February: 12pm ^ 4pm Thursday 26 February: 4pm ^ 8pm Friday 27 February: 12pm ^ 6pm Saturday 28 February: 12pm ^ 4pm Colnbrook Village Hall: Vicarage Way, Slough, Buckinghamshire SL3 0RF Monday 23 February: 3pm ^ 7pm Tuesday 24 February: 2pm ^ 6pm Wednesday 25 February: 2pm ^ 6pm You will also be able to pick up one of our information leaflets at our exhibits in the following stations: Heathrow Terminal 5 train station Monday 16 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Heathrow Terminal 1, 2, 3 train station Tuesday 17 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Reading Station Wednesday 18 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Thursday 19 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Slough Station Friday 20 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm Saturday 21 February: 8am ^ 10am and 4pm ^ 6pm We hope to see you at one of our events. You will also soon be able to leave comments on the proposals on our consultation site. A link to the site will be made available prior to the time of the first consultation event. In the meantime, if you have any questions about the event you can email our project team at westernheathrowlink@networkrail.co.uk Heathrow Timeline 1.Early 2015: Informal public consultation 2.Summer 2015: Formal public consultation 3.Early 2016: Submission of application 4.Spring / Summer 2017: Work to start on site 5.End of 2021: Work complete / trains running Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: BerkshireBugsy on February 06, 2015, 09:11:27 Many thanks - I heard mention of this before and know it has been discussed here in the coffee shop but I was curious why it made the radio new today.
Thanks for the link Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 06, 2015, 09:17:59 Quote 1.Early 2015: Informal public consultation According to this from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-26064200), something in support of the first stage consultation was launched today. I can't locate this on Network rails's site. However, as of 9:16 today the piece is headed: Quote 6 February 2014 Last updated at 11:24 so may it's meant to be prophetic. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 06, 2015, 09:19:30 see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.msg170684#msg170684 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.msg170684#msg170684)
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on February 06, 2015, 09:36:49 Probably simply a press conference to launch the meetings above
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: a-driver on February 06, 2015, 15:32:14 Lovely, if it'll be anything like Airport Junction it'll be yet another location we get checked down to a stand to allow a Heathrow train to proceed in front of us!
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on February 06, 2015, 19:37:51 On my our local radio station (which I call dross FM due to choice of music and inane talk) there was a news article which refered to the proposed rail link from Heathrow to Reading - but I can't find anything new about this ? Have I missed something ? There is nothing like regurgitating old news as new news, especially when a General Election is looming Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: BerkshireBugsy on February 06, 2015, 19:46:20 On my our local radio station (which I call dross FM due to choice of music and inane talk) there was a news article which refered to the proposed rail link from Heathrow to Reading - but I can't find anything new about this ? Have I missed something ? There is nothing like regurgitating old news as new news, especially when a General Election is looming Oh you cynic ET.... :) Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 06, 2015, 23:54:14 On my our local radio station (which I call dross FM due to choice of music and inane talk) there was a news article which refered to the proposed rail link from Heathrow to Reading - but I can't find anything new about this ? Have I missed something ? There is nothing like regurgitating old news as new news, especially when a General Election is looming So should NR cease all normal activity because there happens to be a general election coming up? DfT asked for this in the CP5 HLOS, so as per last April's enhancement milestones NR are consulting prior to their single option selection decision in November 2015. Perhaps it would be better if they stopped work for a few months? Paul Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: BerkshireBugsy on February 11, 2015, 18:46:48 @paul7755 - I certainly wasn't suggesting that NR stop work whilst there is an election imminent. I think my question was more along the lines of "is this new news"
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 12, 2015, 09:12:16 @paul7755 - I certainly wasn't suggesting that NR stop work whilst there is an election imminent. I think my question was more along the lines of "is this new news" I agree, it isn't new news at all, it is minor news of a planning stage being reached. I was really trying to contradict Electric train's view that this was some sort of pre-election stunt (which is why I quoted his response). If on the other hand the DfT themselves had issued little more than an empty 'puff piece' then I'd agree with him. This definitely seems to be NR going through normal processes. The problem is that the NR GRIP process for enhancements, and the 5 year (railway) control periods overseen by ORR's timescales (themselves imposed by the 2005 Railway Act), mean that nearly all major rail projects will overlap with the election cycle at some point. PS, would it possibly better to combine this thread with the earlier thread in the London to the West forum: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.0 Paul Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 12, 2015, 19:59:16 PS, would it possibly better to combine this thread with the earlier thread in the London to the West forum: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.0 Paul Fair comment, Paul: I've now moved and merged those topics here, on the London to Reading board. CfN. :) Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: Electric train on February 12, 2015, 20:26:03 @paul7755 - I certainly wasn't suggesting that NR stop work whilst there is an election imminent. I think my question was more along the lines of "is this new news" I agree, it isn't new news at all, it is minor news of a planning stage being reached. I was really trying to contradict Electric train's view that this was some sort of pre-election stunt (which is why I quoted his response). If on the other hand the DfT themselves had issued little more than an empty 'puff piece' then I'd agree with him. This definitely seems to be NR going through normal processes. The problem is that the NR GRIP process for enhancements, and the 5 year (railway) control periods overseen by ORR's timescales (themselves imposed by the 2005 Railway Act), mean that nearly all major rail projects will overlap with the election cycle at some point. PS, would it possibly better to combine this thread with the earlier thread in the London to the West forum: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.0 Paul I was probably being cynical I know only too well the Control Period cycle I live and breath GRIP :o sad I know ;D And yes this is NR going through process, I am certain that the political class will be making mileage out of it over the next few months Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 19, 2016, 20:37:08 We seem, collectively, to have missed out on the formal consultation on WRAtH. This is with the planning inspectorate, who have a page on it here (http://infrastructure.planninginspectorate.gov.uk/projects/south-east/western-rail-link-to-heathrow/?ipcsection=overview). There's a big scoping report, DfT's reply and the consultation responses, plus some letters provided under the PI's new "openness policy". Note this is leading towards a DCO, not a TWA application.
I didn't look very closely at Jacobs' 343-page effort, which is where the maps (of the track, and the newts etc) are. It does entirely exclude the option touted by NR of a possible grade-separated link to the Main Lines at Langley. It also says this: Quote Once built, the new rail link will provide a train service of four trains per hour in each direction between Heathrow Terminal 5 and Reading station. This could be a new direct service or an extension of planned Crossrail and / or current Heathrow Express services currently operating into Heathrow. ... There is no planned impact on the existing service between Reading and Paddington. (This thread continues the other one with WRAtH in its title.) Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: grahame on February 20, 2016, 07:23:30 Would this ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03k2wdy ) be a through station to the western link?
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 20, 2016, 09:17:33 Would this ( http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p03k2wdy ) be a through station to the western link? Well, it's no real secret that T5 was built to serve a through railway to somewhere. It was an implicit part of Airtrack. What's odd its that that BBC piece didn't mention the operating station, and how the two relate, nor the WRAtH plans as such. My mental picture was that there were two or three more platforms beside the operating ones, or space for them, connecting to the east. We know there are two tracks that run westwards as far as a wall; they could be from any of the platform tracks. It's barely mentioned in that WRAtH scoping report - it doesn't need building, of course: Quote At the Heathrow end, there will be a cavern containing a rail crossover (which allows trains to change tracks) which will also be constructed by the cut and cover method. The last few hundred metres from this cavern will be a tunnel constructed using spray concrete lining under the A3044 and Western Perimeter Road to connect with the existing tunnels west of T5 station. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: JayMac on February 20, 2016, 14:09:54 There's certainly a lot of space in the T5 station underground cavern.
There are two 'safeguarded' platforms for future westward extension. Initially intended for Airtrack to Waterloo but could be used for WRAtH. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 20, 2016, 15:01:52 I think that BBC video piece is rather misleading. The words on the page say this "immense secret station" already has platforms, which is what I'd heard. But the huge caverns they show don't - I think that's spare basement space at the same level. I'd also heard of this basement as another T5 feature - it goes 22 m down, as well as 40 m up. I guess the, actually rather small, unused station space is not shown except maybe a glimpse at the end.
According to the architects' descriptions, the platforms have natural light from skylights in the "plaza". The plaza is at the ends of space between T5 proper and the bus road, and is meant to be a landscaped public space. I'd always just rushed past it and never noticed, like (I suspect) most people. Between the two parts of this plaza are some of those ETFE "plastic bags", forming skylights for the station - and it's not even a Grimshaw building! Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 20, 2016, 17:15:03 There's certainly a lot of space in the T5 station underground cavern. There are two 'safeguarded' platforms for future westward extension. Initially intended for Airtrack to Waterloo but could be used for WRAtH. A drawing in the Airtrack consultation showed the broad layout below ground, there are three main line gauge 'starter tunnels' extending westward, the middle one of three aligns with the future platform 2 and existing platform 3 track. The most Northern extension of the four is the turn back siding for the Piccadilly line, they operate with one arrival and one departure platform, so that tunnel is longer. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 25, 2016, 18:16:22 There's a second NR consultation, running from 23 Feb to 4th April. They have a web page (https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/westernraillinktoheathrow), and in addition Heathrow also have one (http://your.heathrow.com/new-western-rail-access-to-heathrow-consultation-launched/) that links to it.
This isn't consulting on what to build so much as how to build it. NR have now chosen the scheme they want, and it doesn't include any link to the Main Lines at Langley. There isn't really a consultation document as such, nor a list of questions. There is an environmental study, which says quite a bit about the plans. There are also plans relating to some odd-looking specific points; one is how to build the bridge under the Main Lines, another is whether to put in a crossover west of T5. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: Bmblbzzz on February 25, 2016, 18:57:54 On my our local radio station (which I call dross FM due to choice of music and inane talk) there was a news article which refered to the proposed rail link from Heathrow to Reading - but I can't find anything new about this ? Have I missed something ? Quite! How can something be improved when it does not actually exist? Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 26, 2016, 00:53:20 A drawing in the Airtrack consultation showed the broad layout below ground, there are three main line gauge 'starter tunnels' extending westward, the middle one of three aligns with the future platform 2 and existing platform 3 track. The most Northern extension of the four is the turn back siding for the Piccadilly line, they operate with one arrival and one departure platform, so that tunnel is longer. There is a new WRAtH plan of the stub tunnels (https://consultations.networkrail.co.uk/communications/westernraillinktoheathrow/supporting_documents/Crossover%20Options.pdf) (though that's not why it's there), showing the connections to a northern railway line. Taken together, this and the Airtrack one make clear what the pre-planned T5 station arrangement is, with three two-sided islands: P1/P2 do not exist, but would line up with a line to Staines. That line as proposed for Airtrack would use those two and also connect to P3. P3/P4 is what the current Paddington services use, and WRAtH is proposed to connect onto. P5/P6 is for the Piccadilly line. We know there's an ongoing discussion/argument about which service would be extended to Reading, with HEx being keen to do it then going cold on the idea. But otherwise it has to be (1) Crossrail or (2) something additional. In both cases I would expect P1/P2 to be built to provide (or reinstate) terminating platform capacity. Crossrail do still say they will serve T4 only, though I would have thought BA would like T5 to have trains to Paddington and London. And BA can and do lean quite hard on HAL. Is there any known plan for swapping services around, before or after WRAtH? I don't recall seeing any. Returning to that WRAtH plan, it shows two options for the track approaching T5 from the west. One has a crossover, the other has none. How this fits into the consultation I couldn't say - I can't see any mention of it. But the crossover shown is a double-slip flat crossing (or diamond), which seems an odd choice. Surely most trains will not be switching track, so will have to wiggle sideways just to go straight on. And that's on top of the reason why these things have been disappearing; AFAIK that's their worse wear and more difficult maintenance (as shown at Br^tigny-sur-Orge). Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: SandTEngineer on February 26, 2016, 09:15:53 Just for clarity that plan shows a double slip connection not a crossover. I'm a bit supprised as this would constrain services to entry/exit only one at a time ::) :P
Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: paul7575 on February 26, 2016, 10:47:02 There would presumably be different optimal layouts if all trains ran through, and if some trains terminated.
If optimised for through running would it be better to have up and down islands, with the down 'WRatH' and up 'Airtrack' crossing somewhere west of the station? Or would you dedicate the platforms by service pattern? I'd prefer the former, alternating departures towards Central London from either side of the same island must be easier than missing a train and having to cross to the other island for the next one. Paul Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 26, 2016, 19:49:36 Just for clarity that plan shows a double slip connection not a crossover. I'm a bit supprised as this would constrain services to entry/exit only one at a time ::) :P I've had a closer look, and I think that is the expected double crossover, but drawn oddly. If you check the scale, the outer rails are about 5 m apart at closest, which is consistent with a normal track interval of 3.4 m. For comparison, the twin stub tunnel for platforms 2 and 3 is shown as nearly 10 m wide (though of course the shape of the tunnel is unknown). Since the running tunnels are quite far apart, and the two platform tracks even further (well over 20 m), the box would be very long without the tracks curving inwards to almost meet. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: stuving on February 26, 2016, 20:12:47 There would presumably be different optimal layouts if all trains ran through, and if some trains terminated. If optimised for through running would it be better to have up and down islands, with the down 'WRatH' and up 'Airtrack' crossing somewhere west of the station? Or would you dedicate the platforms by service pattern? I'd prefer the former, alternating departures towards Central London from either side of the same island must be easier than missing a train and having to cross to the other island for the next one. Paul I'm not sure how much leeway there is, given that BA/HAL are not going to allow any knocking holes in their basement except in the weak filler walls and floors. I remember how adamant they were about "no DC traction". I've tried to make sense of the various reports, including this one from The Londonist (https://londonist.com/2014/01/heathrow-express-secret-tunnels-and-unused-platforms). The two consultation maps certainly should be reliable, as far as they go (i.e. up to the western end wall), and I'm beginning to suspect that the geometry shown by Trackmaps is also correct (which means that the map on the Londonist's video is wrong). It all suggests to me that the two tunnel tracks (with a double crossover between them) line up with P2 & P3, and P1 & P4 are/will be reached off them - i.e. as you suggest, an up and a down platform. That seems to be set in concrete, literally, in the shape of the tunnels at both east and west end. If the box runs between the outer walls of T5 main building and the short-term car park, that's about 260 metres maximum for the platforms, and I don't think that leaves any space for trackwork inside the box. That's certainly true with a maximum-stretch 11-car class 345 (247 m), and I suspect would also be true for something much shorter. That means the only straightforward option is to stick with just P3/4, as drawn, and extend the terminating service (HEx, without a big change of ideas) to Reading. If 2 out of 4 tph terminate, as initially proposed, they just have to be fairly quick about it. So anyone who prefers central London to Paddington can either change at HXX or PAD, for similar journey times. Airtrack was proposed as terminating, but with an option of some HEx trains going to Staines. That also fits with T5 as built, and some variations on that might also work - even including WRAtH - subject to looking at the details. Having trains coming in from the south via P1/2 and going to somewhere different, even in London, seems OK too. Title: Re: Network Rail consultation on improving western rail links to Heathrow Post by: eightf48544 on July 14, 2016, 16:10:56 Just got myself a ticket for a Maidenhead Chamber of Commerce Event tonight (See their Website)
, with Mark Langham Western Route Director Network Rail on the Link. Will report back. Noted length of trains, through running (Crossrail? TOC?) Possible Airtrack link and no 3rd rail Title: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: grahame on September 22, 2020, 21:45:41 I'm sure there's a thread on this somewhere ... if any member can find it and post a link, I'll merge them.
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-berkshire-54252585) Quote Heathrow rail link to be delayed by up to two years Plans for a rail link between the Great Western mainline and Heathrow Airport will be delayed by up to two years. A planning application for the long-anticipated scheme, which would allow people living to the west of Heathrow to travel direct to the airport, had been expected this year. But Network Rail said the proposal had been delayed by the impact of Covid-19. Reading Borough Council's lead for transport Tony Page described the delay as "deplorable". Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: Red Squirrel on September 22, 2020, 22:15:22 This thread starts slightly confusingly, but seems to settle on WRATH... http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9171.msg94187#msg94187
Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: grahame on September 22, 2020, 22:27:13 This thread starts slightly confusingly, but seems to settle on WRATH... http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9171.msg94187#msg94187 Thanks for that - not an easy one to find (for me, anyway!) .. I'll merge in the morning Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: stuving on September 22, 2020, 22:40:33 This thread starts slightly confusingly, but seems to settle on WRATH... http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=9171.msg94187#msg94187 There's also what is really a continuation of that one in http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15298.0 (also a bit confusing as it was a merger). This does not seem to even have a link back to the earlier one. Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: stuving on September 22, 2020, 23:16:33 There's no sign of that announcement on NR's site (as usual). And just in case you were feeling confusion-deprived ... this is dated yesterday, from New Civil Engineer (https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/network-rail-seeks-views-on-western-rail-link-to-heathrow-21-09-2020/?tkn=1):
Quote Network Rail is seeking views on its approach to the proposed Western Rail Link to Heathrow project. According to a periodic indicative notice published this week, this will support the project?s Commercial Strategy Review as the rail operator considers whether its strategy is ?appropriate in view of current market conditions?. The market engagement exercise and request for information will focus on how the proposed procurement strategy is viewed, the capacity and capability in the market and potential bidding models to deliver the work packages. ... So what's a "periodic indicative notice" then? It's something in the official contracting system. I can only find that term in the Utilities Contracts Regulations, but then the definition of "utility" does include railway "public bodies". But it sounds rather like another bit of the public contracts system, called a Prior Information Notice! And then there's Heathrow Southern Railway Ltd, who want the government?s new Transport Acceleration Unit to do ... I wonder what? Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: autotank on September 24, 2020, 09:14:29 So what is all of the work going on the the field on the down side of the line between Langley and Iver? I was hoping it was related to this scheme, but if planning hasn't been approved then presumably not. This got the go ahead 5+ years ago - disappointing that planning hasn't even been gained yet for what is more or less a totally underground railway.
Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: stuving on September 24, 2020, 12:38:45 So what is all of the work going on the the field on the down side of the line between Langley and Iver? I was hoping it was related to this scheme, but if planning hasn't been approved then presumably not. This got the go ahead 5+ years ago - disappointing that planning hasn't even been gained yet for what is more or less a totally underground railway. I think that's Cemex's "North Park" quarry. They got approval in 2016/17 (Buckinghamshire County Council application CM/51/16) to extract aggregates, then refill with ... other less useful stuff. They made a big point in their application that, once NR had buried a railway, extraction would be impossible (the portal is in the middle of the Cemex site). So they proposed a six-year extraction phase, followed by 3 years of refilling, which could be combined with NR building their tunnel. The approval was conditional on cooperating with WRAtH. I guess that would mean building the tunnel above ground, then raising the ground level so it becomes a proper tunnel. How Cemex are getting on in terms of timescale I don't know, but I doubt there's much chance of WRAtH being delayed by it! Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: stuving on January 20, 2021, 16:32:49 If you want to follow what going on - little though that may be just now - there are notes of project update meetings with NR on the Planning Inspectorate website. The are under "section 51 advice", since in theory NR are asking for the PI's approval of how they are proceeding. Currently, they are producing all the documents for the DCO itself.
The latest dates - already out of date, in that the new scoping report hasn't visibly gone in - are from the 2nd October meeting: Quote Future programme The Applicant stated that it expected to submit its new Scoping Report in November 2020. A second round of Statutory Consultation would follow in spring 2021 with the anticipated submission of the DCO application in November 2021. In respect of the new Scoping Report, the Inspectorate noted that advanced warning of the actual submission date would be welcomed. The Inspectorate reminded the Applicant that a shapefile must be submitted at least 10 days in advance of submission of the new Scoping Report. The Applicant anticipated enabling works would commence in 2024, with the main works being carried out in 2025. In addition, the Applicant provided provisional dates for commissioning and operation of the Proposed Development of 2029 and 2030 respectively. Title: Re: Reading to Heathrow link Post by: Surrey 455 on July 31, 2021, 20:06:47 From New Civil Engineer (https://www.newcivilengineer.com/latest/900m-heathrow-rail-link-may-be-funded-by-taxpayer-after-airport-coffers-run-dry-27-07-2021)
Quote A £900M western rail link to London's Heathrow Airport could be funded by the taxpayer, because the airport can no longer afford to stump up the cash. Rail minister Chris Heaton-Harris has confirmed that he will ask the Treasury to pay for part of the line between Heathrow’s Terminal 5 and main railway line to the west of England and Wales. The airport had agreed to pay for the majority of the transport link before withdrawing its pledge after a decline in revenue due to the Covid-19 pandemic. NCE revealed in March that work on the scheme to provide west-facing direct rail access from the Great Western Mail Line (GWML) to Heathrow Terminal 5 was being brought to a “controlled pause” due to a lack of funding. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: grahame on August 11, 2024, 20:08:06 An ancient thread back to life - for the cancellation of the Western Rail link . Perhaps I have missed a thread over the last few days?
Quote Train project for direct link to Heathrow Airport withdrawn Reading Chronicle at https://www.readingchronicle.co.uk/news/24506994.train-project-direct-link-heathrow-airport-withdrawn/ Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: ChrisB on August 11, 2024, 21:16:29 That went in the last Parliament
Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: stuving on August 11, 2024, 22:12:46 That went in the last Parliament If not earlier! Work on the pre-application phase of planning was put on hold in December 2020, though I can't find any note of that on the three WRaTH threads on this forum (that I've found - there may be others!). Stopping work was not a formal planning step, so never recorded on the PI web site. In October 2023 they asked NR: Quote It appears that no significant action has taken place on this project for some period of time and therefore, it would be extremely helpful if you could provide an update to confirm: a) Whether the Applicant still intends to submit the application; b) If so, any estimated timescales for doing so; c) The point of contact (with their details) for this project. NR didn't reply until prodded in May, when they said: Quote The project how now been stopped with no further funding to take it forward or future plans for funding in the pipeline from either Department for Transport or Heathrow Airport so please consider the project closed with no future submissions. You might consider this a harbinger of Rachel Reeves' bonfire of the "Micawber" projects. Title: Re: Western Rail Access to Heathrow Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 12, 2024, 13:42:45 Work on the pre-application phase of planning was put on hold in December 2020, though I can't find any note of that on the three WRaTH threads on this forum (that I've found - there may be others!). With many thanks for your post, stuving, I've now taken the hint and moved all three topics here. I've also merged them, while retaining the original headings wherever possible. This is now the definitive topic on WRATH. ;) CfN. ;D Title: Re: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: CyclingSid on August 15, 2024, 06:58:45 Never say never? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o)
Title: Re: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: TaplowGreen on August 15, 2024, 09:27:57 Never say never? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o) Not really needed though is it? With HEX, Elizabeth Line, Picadilly Line etc Heathrow is very well served. Loads of coaches/buses too. I'm sure better uses can be found for £900 million. Title: Re: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: grahame on August 15, 2024, 11:24:15 Never say never? https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1jlgyx2d17o) Not really needed though is it? With HEX, Elizabeth Line, Picadilly Line etc Heathrow is very well served. Loads of coaches/buses too. I'm sure better uses can be found for £900 million. Rather sadly, I found myself sitting with a cup of coffee and idly being a crayonist and found myself wondering if something like this might have a case (http://www.wellho.net/pix/smallwest.jpg) I am aware that if I was serious I would be blighting a couple of factories and there would be some rises and falls (or falls and rises) as a level crossing over the A408 because of its inconvenience to road traffic would probably be ruled out ;D Title: Re: Western Rail Access To Heathrow (WRATH) - merged topics Post by: CyclingSid on August 23, 2024, 07:08:07 A local MP having his two pennyworth https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv5vjp828o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gv5vjp828o)
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