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Journey by Journey => London to the Cotswolds => Topic started by: willc on October 29, 2008, 00:28:26



Title: Up the junction
Post by: willc on October 29, 2008, 00:28:26
Not sure what happened last night, but the 17.51 London-Worcester sat for 40 minutes at Wolvercot junction because, according to the train manager, a train coming off the single line (aka the 17.06 from Great Malvern) was stuck straddling the junction points because of a signalling problem.

Any explanations of what kind of signalling fault could becalm an HST like this are welcome.

Not a great day for the diagram covering the 17.51, as the set developed a problem with the doors departing from Oxford while on the 08.37 from Worcester and lost more time with a recurrence at Reading, skipped Slough and reached Paddington about 40 minutes late.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: signalandtelegraph on October 29, 2008, 07:52:34

Any explanations of what kind of signalling fault could becalm an HST like this are welcome.


None usually.

As a possible explanation from the details given above.  The train had  SPAD on the junction signal, the TPWS stopped the train across the points and the driver couldn't reset it and get moving again, however this would be the signalling system working 'normally'

Perhaps the signalling system is always a convenient excuse (as it's a 'dark art' that few understand!).   ;)


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: willc on October 29, 2008, 09:07:07
Yes. SPAD was the only thing I could think of, though as you say, it's actually signal-linked equipment working correctly. But I had my doubts, as the run-on beyond the signal protecting the junction on the single line is pretty lengthy, since it's set well back for sighting reasons due to the sharp curve on the approach.

And looks like we're even more up the junction this morning, due to our old friend lineside equipment failure. The 6.42 from Hereford is 30 down near Charlbury, the 06.00 from London was terminated at Oxford and the 08.37 from Worcester has been cancelled, presumably to provide a set for the 09.37 - so I'm off to chip frozen snow off the car...


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 29, 2008, 09:12:21
Yes. SPAD was the only thing I could think of, though as you say, it's actually signal-linked equipment working correctly. But I had my doubts, as the run-on beyond the signal protecting the junction on the single line is pretty lengthy, since it's set well back for sighting reasons due to the sharp curve on the approach.

And looks like we're even more up the junction this morning, due to our old friend lineside equipment failure. The 6.42 from Hereford is 30 down near Charlbury, the 06.00 from London was terminated at Oxford and the 08.37 from Worcester has been cancelled, presumably to provide a set for the 09.37 - so I'm off to chip frozen snow off the car...


Yep - the adelante will be the 0937

But they are saying minimum of about four hours to get to oxford due to frozen points at Ascott.  Not sure how true but there are about 7 trains apparently stacked on the cotswolds line trying to get through.

The 0902 to Weymouth is the official diversion - and due to a bit of quick thinking on my part and a dash to foregate street, I got myself a seat with a table.

Once more week of this then I battle BMI baby for 10 months.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: eightf48544 on October 29, 2008, 13:40:43
And looks like we're even more up the junction this morning, due to our old friend lineside equipment failure. The 6.42 from Hereford is 30 down near Charlbury, the 06.00 from London was terminated at Oxford and the 08.37 from Worcester has been cancelled, presumably to provide a set for the 09.37 - so I'm off to chip frozen snow off the car...

Not a good day to drive with the M40 blocked. You have my sympathy.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: willc on October 29, 2008, 15:04:45
Only have to get to Oxford, so could be worse. Not sure if the points were frozen or not. I think the early trains did get through - including the 05.42. The halts train limped into Oxford 48 minutes late at 9am.

Was described to a colleague by an NR spokesman as "points failure". It's still causing problems now - and things have warmed up a bit since the morning. No idea whether it might be related to last night's problems.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 29, 2008, 15:16:09
Only have to get to Oxford, so could be worse. Not sure if the points were frozen or not. I think the early trains did get through - including the 05.42. The halts train limped into Oxford 48 minutes late at 9am.

Was described to a colleague by an NR spokesman as "points failure". It's still causing problems now - and things have warmed up a bit since the morning. No idea whether it might be related to last night's problems.

Well it got even worse.

The connection at Parkway was supposed to be the 1032 which limped in at 1055 - as it was 2+7 and heaving I decided to wait for the 1102 - which came in at 1107.  which was ok until we sat at wooton basset juntion for 45 minutes behind a failed train.  Failed train was later moved to sidings at Swindon where we passed - the 1032 nowe fully kaput in the sidings, still with all it passengers.

Waiting for the 1102 was the only good  decision I made today,.  I got into reading at about 1pm.

I just felt for the displaces WOS passengers stuck in the Swindon sidings


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2008, 16:14:45
There was actually some reasonably sensible adjustments to the planned service to try and minimise the disruption. Two strategic cancellations meant that everything else was able to run through with a maximum of 50 minutes delay. There were certainly never seven trains stacked up - that's half the days service!  ;)

The Adelante which was held at Worcester to replace the 09:37 WOF-PAD Turbo service and was only a couple of minutes down at Moreton, though lost 30 minutes at Ascott waiting for a Pilotman. It arrived Oxford at around 10:35 after they sensibly let the 10:31 HST go ahead of it. I was at Oxford station at the time and there's no way they could have fitted everyone on the Adelante which followed it from Oxford and as a result both trains were sensibly full.

Pilotman working was still in place at lunch time, so it was clearly something more serious than just frozen points - though that was what it was originally being described as.

Obviously the cancellation of the 08:38 WOF-PAD would have caused the most problems, with passengers from the Cotswold line stations suffering a delay of around 90 minutes if they were travelling to Charlbury or beyond. However, it's worth pointing out that (sensibly) the turbo and driver that would have been coming back from WOF at 09:37 were utilised to start the 08:38 WOF-PAD at Oxford on time at 10:01.

Overall, the best was probably made of a bad job! That has certainly not always been the case in the past.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: Lee on October 29, 2008, 17:08:31
Not sure what happened last night, but the 17.51 London-Worcester sat for 40 minutes at Wolvercot junction because, according to the train manager, a train coming off the single line (aka the 17.06 from Great Malvern) was stuck straddling the junction points because of a signalling problem.

Any explanations of what kind of signalling fault could becalm an HST like this are welcome.

I was at Oxford waiting for the 1706 from Great Malvern (due to leave Oxford at 1901.)

They way it was explained to us, the emergency brakes had been applied, and the delay was due to them having to be released.

The train eventually rolled into Oxford just after 1930, where it terminated. Those waiting for it were put on the 1930 service to Paddington, a 3-coach turbo which just about had enough seats for us all. This departed at 1946, getting me into Reading around 2010.

As a result, the 1906 XC departure which had arrived at Oxford on time, couldnt move until the stricken train had moved, with other services inevitably held up as well

I must say that I thought the FGW Oxford staff did a good job in dealing with it all.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: Mookiemoo on October 29, 2008, 17:42:24
I agree - the cancellation of the 0841 was probably a good decision.  BUT
that is little consolation to the passengers who followed the advice that if they were going to Reading/Slough/Paddington that the quickest way to get there was to get the weymouth train and then the 1032.  Which was great - until they found themselves sitting in the sidings at Swindon due to a train failure.

If you were one of them passengers, the fact that it was a sensible decision is not going to mean much.

I was royally pissed off on the 1102 that I got in 1 hour after the 0937


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: John R on October 29, 2008, 17:50:36

Once more week of this then I battle BMI baby for 10 months.

They'll be German owned, so hopefully more Chiltern Railways than FGW.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 29, 2008, 18:21:38
I agree - the cancellation of the 0841 was probably a good decision.  BUT
that is little consolation to the passengers who followed the advice that if they were going to Reading/Slough/Paddington that the quickest way to get there was to get the weymouth train and then the 1032.  Which was great - until they found themselves sitting in the sidings at Swindon due to a train failure.

If you were one of them passengers, the fact that it was a sensible decision is not going to mean much.

I was royally pissed off on the 1102 that I got in 1 hour after the 0937


I quite agree - it must have been a horrible experience for those passengers affected. At the time it was the most sensible advice that could be given - obviously nobody could predict what might subsequently happen. I'm afraid when disruption hits the network then it is a case of trying to cause the least amount of disruption to the least amount of people, but there will always be people affected - especially when they get two large lumps of bad luck chucked at them in one journey!

There were still areas that could have been improved. For example, a relatively simple driver swap would have meant the 12:21 PAD-OXF would not have been delayed by 25 minutes, but in comparison with certain other decisions (or lack of) from NR and FGW control at times of disruption, I thought this one was handled fairly well.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: signalandtelegraph on October 29, 2008, 19:13:26
ATP fault on the unit which caused it to stop across the junction.  Once it got going it failed again at Tilehurst with the same fault! 




Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: Lee on October 29, 2008, 19:23:12
ATP fault on the unit which caused it to stop across the junction.  Once it got going it failed again at Tilehurst with the same fault!

Is this last night's 1706 from Great Malvern? If so, I saw it terminate at Oxford so when did it set off towards Tilehurst?


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: eightf48544 on October 30, 2008, 00:15:52
ATP fault on the unit which caused it to stop across the junction.  Once it got going it failed again at Tilehurst with the same fault! 




Interesting I didn't think ATP was installed at Oxford.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: signalandtelegraph on October 30, 2008, 06:23:24
Is this last night's 1706 from Great Malvern? If so, I saw it terminate at Oxford so when did it set off towards Tilehurst?

Yes , it ran ECS to Old Oak from Oxford at 2115.



Interesting I didn't think ATP was installed at Oxford.

It isn't, it was trainborne equipment malfunction.


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: devon_metro on October 30, 2008, 11:34:18
Got a feeling ATP is London - Bristol TM/Bristol Parkway only?


Title: Re: Up the junction
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 30, 2008, 11:44:19
Got a feeling ATP is London - Bristol TM/Bristol Parkway only?

Correct. Though only on main lines. The only relief lines with it fitted are Paddington-Airport Junction, and (rather curiously) platform 8 at Reading. As mentioned though, the trainborne equipment is on at all times - albeit in a passive state in non ATP areas - and can still malfunction on non-ATP routes and cause problems, though this is very rare.



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