Great Western Coffee Shop

First Great Western are set to get enough 150s to replace all their Pacers starting next year.  Northern and Arriva Trains Wales are set to keep some Pacers until 2014.

And you're not the only area to lose newer trains for older ones.

Northern are also set to lose all their 321s and 323s (both built in the 1990s) to London Midland, to be replaced by 315s built in 1980 as National Express East Anglia will get new units to replace their 315s.  While some former First North Western routes which saw 175s on some journeys and didn't get transferred to Arriva Trains Wales, now see 142s and 150s instead.

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Didn't the PTE in Yorkshire pay for the 321s? They won't be very pleased.

Yes Metro (West Yorks PTE sponsor them)  However, they are now far too small for any electrified service in the West Yorks PTE area.  Metro and GMPTE hoped that the 321s and 323s would be replaced by brand new EMUs, which was approved by DfT who have since decided that Northern can have more EMU vehicles, but much older ones.

Sorry, I don't think I've got this yet. 4 coach 100mph trains are too small? And are going to be replaced by 3 coach 75mph trains (that are 32 years old). When is this likely to hit the press?

The 315s are also 4 car.  I don't know exactly how it'll work but maybe as Northern will have spare 315s they will run in multiple in the Doncaster to Leeds route.

It's been hinted by the DfT as originally Northern were due new EMUs in their rolling stock plan to replace London Midland bound 323s, in the new plan they're due cascased EMUs and the 321s have been added to the rolling stock that Northern will lose following the Yorkshire RUS.

LM are getting a very good deal!

The influx of more old EMUs means they can double up all electric services on the Cross City line and Stour Valley line.

They are also getting brand new Desiros for WCML services!

Then they are getting new DMUs (albeit with less coaches overall and 10 fewer seats per coach) in 2010.

If only that were true.  The contract with WAG says no new trains during the franchise.

It doesn't exclude cascaded trains though.  So if another company disposes of their 150s or 156s, they could replace either Arriva Trains Wales' Pacers or Northern's Pacers.

I will believe it when I see it in all honesty.  ::) ::)

Although I would have thought it made better sense to concentrate the entire surviving 143 fleet in a single location. Canton preferably. None of those Valley Lines / Grumbly Gasworks services are very long or very fast therefore pacers are the ideal solution.

It won't work like that.  DfT don't care what journeys Pacers run, as long as they steer clear of London.  If they ran journeys of 60-180 minutes carrying up to 200 passengers around London, like they do around Manchester, Liverpool and Preston, the entire fleet would be with another TOC within a month.  (For information the 142s that FGW have are former First North Western ones but due to a reshuffle of units it has resulted in 12 less 142s in just the Leeds area.)

Just seen on another forum Arriva will use 4 coach mk2 formations hauled by class 57s on Holyhead to Cardiff services soon, which will free up 175s, which in turn will free up Sprinter units for other routes.

I saw that on this forum as well  ;D :

A 2 car 150/1 turned up at St Ives branch today, never seen a 3+2 seating arrangement apart from in the Pacers.

Well, chrisoates, I was similarly startled when a 150/1 turned up for my journey home from BTM, some time ago!  See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1787.msg12579#msg12579  ;) :D ;D

The 150/1's are common user in the FGW class 150 fleet and they get used in Cornwall to ensure Par and Pzed crews maintain their knowledge of them.

Have the ex FNW 150/2's still got the enormous lavatory that seemed to take up most of the back end of the 52 car? Wessex had one on hire some years ago, the toilet compartment seemed almost Tardis like in terms of internal size.

As regards the 3+2 seating, some of the ATW 150/2's which have been subleased also have rather large 3+2 seating. Interestingly, none of the ex Wessex 150/2's that were sent over to Grumbly Gasworks Railways have returned to revisit their old stamping grounds, the contract is for 5 x 150/2 not 5 particular 150/2's so it's possible they might appear at some point.

As already stated the 315's are 4 car. however the 321/9 units are 3 car.

Yes they've got an 'accessible toilet' which is much larger than the ones on 156s and 158s.  The door's on those units frequently jam (not great when Northern use them on 3 hr journeys in the North West)  They also put a 3 person bench seat (like on the 142s)opposite the toilet door, so if someone in a wheelchair wanted to use the toilet the people on those seats would have to stand up so they could access the toilet (and that's assuming the train isn't overcrowded.)

Arriva Trains Wales have a couple of these units but I think they are used on the Wrexham to Bidston (Birkenhead) route, which was a former FNW route.