Title: The Two TOC Train Post by: eightf48544 on September 10, 2008, 16:32:20 Apparently there are going to be trains run by two TOCS.
They are on the old Thameslink they will start South of the river as Southeastern and then become FCC North of Blackfriars. This poses an interesting conumdrum as FCC have evening peak restrictions on off peak tickets going North, Southeastern don't. So will you be able to travel from say London Bridge to North of zone 6 in teh peak on a Southeastern off peak ticket? I was going to put this in the Lighter Side but then thought Smoke and Mirrors seemed more appropriate. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: John R on September 10, 2008, 18:17:18 Weren't the South West -Scotland via West Coast services run by two TOCs for a month (XC and VWC) before they finally ceased.
Anyone think of any other examples? Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: super tm on September 10, 2008, 18:55:35 It is the tickets that are restricted. As FCC set the fares north of the river they set the restrictions so there will be no change. The resaon that there are not many restrictions going south is that south eastern set the fares and they do not have evening restrictions.
There used to be a joint Wessex South west trains service that ran from Waterloo to Penzance. IIRC there was one train running at the weekend. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: devon_metro on September 10, 2008, 19:04:17 FGW Crew a SWT service if that counts.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Btline on September 10, 2008, 22:05:15 Central Trains and Silverlink ran services between Euston and B'ham/Liverpool etc.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Electric train on September 10, 2008, 22:54:47 Apparently there are going to be trains run by two TOCS. Is this going to be a permanent arrangement or only while Blackfriars station is closed while it is being rebuilt by the Thameslink projectThey are on the old Thameslink they will start South of the river as Southeastern and then become FCC North of Blackfriars. This poses an interesting conumdrum as FCC have evening peak restrictions on off peak tickets going North, Southeastern don't. So will you be able to travel from say London Bridge to North of zone 6 in teh peak on a Southeastern off peak ticket? I was going to put this in the Lighter Side but then thought Smoke and Mirrors seemed more appropriate. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: eightf48544 on September 11, 2008, 10:47:14 Is this going to be a permanent arrangement or only while Blackfriars station is closed while it is being rebuilt by the Thameslink project Will check with my source and let you know. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Worcester_Passenger on September 17, 2008, 13:08:47 There are through services from Newcastle to Stranraer and Glasgow Central via Dumfries which are operated by Northern Rail and Scotrail. I think that the service uses Scotrail stock but has Northern crews between Newcastle and Carlisle, though perhaps someone else can confirm this.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: inspector_blakey on January 09, 2009, 19:43:16 And of course the through Bristol - Oxford services used to be run jointly by FGW (or was it GWT back then?) and Thames Trains. I can't remember if the conductor used to change at Swindon or if it just depended on the service whether the conductor was FGW or TT staff. I certainly saw staff from both companies on the few times I used it. Were FGW drivers trained on the 165s, TT drivers trained on the route or was it a combination of both?
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: grahame on January 09, 2009, 20:03:06 ... I certainly saw staff from both companies on the few times I used it. Were FGW drivers trained on the 165s, TT drivers trained on the route or was it a combination of both? Gosh - I used to use that service up to Oxford quite often, but I can't answer the question. Those were that days that I was just a dumb passenger, and trusted that the train operators knew what they were doing, under the watchful eye of an impartial governmental body of some sort that had the best interests of the traveller as their number one priority, and always got it right! Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: super tm on January 09, 2009, 21:25:48 Both FGW and TT drivers and FGW Train Manager and TT Senior Conductors worked this service.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: devonian on January 10, 2009, 08:32:58 I went from Redhill to Tonbridge the other day. It was a Southern service and train but all staff in SOutheastern uniform. How does this work? Do they split the revenue? All stations were in Southern livery.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: G.Uard on January 10, 2009, 09:48:22 Don't know if this has been mentioned, but you will still find ATW drivers on the FGW Cardiff-Pompeys.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Ollie on January 10, 2009, 13:52:37 You will also find Southern drivers doing an early Gatwick - Reading and vice versa and again in the evening.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: John R on January 10, 2009, 13:57:21 I guess that make's sense, as it avoids having to base FGW drivers at Gatwick or getting them there first thing.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Timmer on January 10, 2009, 14:36:19 I went from Redhill to Tonbridge the other day. It was a Southern service and train but all staff in SOutheastern uniform. How does this work? Do they split the revenue? All stations were in Southern livery. Southern and Southeastern franchises are both under the same company GoVia so they probably share resources at times.Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 10, 2009, 17:02:54 Don't know if this has been mentioned, but you will still find ATW drivers on the FGW Cardiff-Pompeys. Also ATW drivers on the FGW Cardiff-Tauntons. They hand over to a FGW driver at BTM for the 1754, for example, and I try to overhear the generally caustic comments about various technical niggles the new driver will find on the onward journey! Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: inspector_blakey on January 11, 2009, 19:18:37 I'm probably being ultra-pedantic here, but I wonder how many of the services mentioned above are actually advertised as being jointly run by two TOCs. The CDF-PMH services are advertised in the timetable as 'GW', even though they are sometimes crewed by ATW staff (does this still include conductors or is it just some drivers these days?). The Bristol - Oxford service was a bit different in that respect, since the operator code shown in the timetable was 'WT' to indicate a service jointly operated by FGW and TT.
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Btline on January 11, 2009, 19:26:13 What did WT stand for? Western Thames?
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: inspector_blakey on January 11, 2009, 19:44:11 I don't think it really stood for anything. At the time (as now), FGW services were denoted GW and Thames services TT. It was just a combination of the two. Not all of the operator codes still in use today stand for anything in particular: NXEC services are shown as 'GR', derived from GNER but clearly not meant to be read as Great Railway (insert your own joke here!).
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Ollie on January 11, 2009, 22:52:01 I'm probably being ultra-pedantic here, but I wonder how many of the services mentioned above are actually advertised as being jointly run by two TOCs. The CDF-PMH services are advertised in the timetable as 'GW', even though they are sometimes crewed by ATW staff (does this still include conductors or is it just some drivers these days?). The Bristol - Oxford service was a bit different in that respect, since the operator code shown in the timetable was 'WT' to indicate a service jointly operated by FGW and TT. I would suspect it's because although in the case of CDF-PMH it is partly crewed by ATW Staff revenue still goes to FGW and not FGW and ATW. FGW will pay ATW to use their staff. That's how I understand it anyway :) Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: John R on January 11, 2009, 22:56:18 I don't think it really stood for anything. At the time (as now), FGW services were denoted GW and Thames services TT. It was just a combination of the two. Not all of the operator codes still in use today stand for anything in particular: NXEC services are shown as 'GR', derived from GNER but clearly not meant to be read as Great Railway (insert your own joke here!). Great No Eating Railway from what I've heard has happened to the restaurant cars on NXEC. >:( Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: G.Uard on January 12, 2009, 04:59:07 I'm probably being ultra-pedantic here, but I wonder how many of the services mentioned above are actually advertised as being jointly run by two TOCs. The CDF-PMH services are advertised in the timetable as 'GW', even though they are sometimes crewed by ATW staff (does this still include conductors or is it just some drivers these days?). Not sure, but GCR depot have picked up some of this work, (on the Western section of the route), since the new timetable and I haven't seen any ATW conductors on the jobs. Still ATW drivers on some runs tho'. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: eightf48544 on January 12, 2009, 11:46:45 GCR Depot? I assumme Gloucester correct?
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Ollie on January 12, 2009, 14:08:00 Correct GCR is Gloucester
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: super tm on January 12, 2009, 17:31:15 I'm probably being ultra-pedantic here, but I wonder how many of the services mentioned above are actually advertised as being jointly run by two TOCs. I would suspect it's because although in the case of CDF-PMH it is partly crewed by ATW Staff revenue still goes to FGW and not FGW and ATW. FGW will pay ATW to use their staff. That's how I understand it anyway :) This is a FGW service. The pay Arriva to provide staff but the service is FGW. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 12, 2009, 19:41:47 Correct GCR is Gloucester Thanks, Ollie! I've added it to our acronyms list, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html (or see link above). ;) Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: TerminalJunkie on January 12, 2009, 21:21:08 Thanks, Ollie! I've added it to our acronyms list, at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/acronyms.html (or see link above). ;) Are you going to add BNP to the list as well, then? (http://www.takeforum.com/forum/images/smiles/th_whisteling.gif) Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 12, 2009, 22:27:01 As you've mentioned it ... yes, I have! ;D
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Ollie on January 12, 2009, 22:29:08 As you've mentioned it ... yes, I have! ;D In regard to the acronyms list : BNS in railway terms would actually be Barnes and BHM is Birmingham New Street :) Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 12, 2009, 22:33:07 Thanks, Ollie! ::)
Anyone else like to chip in, while I'm editing the darn'd thing?? ;D Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: inspector_blakey on January 13, 2009, 13:57:16 There's a complete list of the 3-character station codes at http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/codes/ (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/stations/codes/). Maybe linking to this would make your life easier Chris!
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: grahame on January 13, 2009, 16:31:36 Thanks, Ollie! ::) Anyone else like to chip in, while I'm editing the darn'd thing?? ;D Yep ;D If you go to http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/BNP.html and replace BNP by any three letter code, you'll find where it is, other stations nearby and what the footfall is. (You have to be registered as a member and logged in for this to work) Also ... link to all stations by name on the "Station Comparator" link at the top. Do you realise there's a BNP and a CON but no LIB or LAB. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: TerminalJunkie on January 13, 2009, 16:48:54 If you go to http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/BNP.html and replace BNP by any three letter code, you'll find where it is, other stations nearby and what the footfall is. (You have to be registered as a member and logged in for this to work) Ooh, I feel a railway version of the Kevin Bacon game coming on... Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Btline on January 13, 2009, 21:12:13 Thanks Grahmne!
I really like the lists it gives you. Although it is annoying to see that a station with a similar footfall to your local station get a much better service! >:( PS: Can we have a link to it on this website? Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on January 14, 2009, 00:01:22 PS: Can we have a link to it on this website? Erm, sorry, Btline, but that is the link - just click on 'Station Comparator' in the light blue bar above - just under the wording, "no decent service at all!" ;) :D ;D Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: tramway on January 14, 2009, 15:53:19 Thanks Grahmne! Although it is annoying to see that a station with a similar footfall to your local station get a much better service! >:( Your not the only one. >:( Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Btline on January 14, 2009, 21:14:06 :-X :-[ :'(
Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Richard Fairhurst on February 07, 2009, 00:41:46 First North Western and (Virgin) CrossCountry ran a joint service at one point - two 158s coupled together in the Manchester/Bolton area. I have a vague recollection that there used to be a Northern service from Leeds to Carlisle that went forward to Glasgow as ScotRail, too.
Until a few years back, Central Trains drivers would drive Turbos on the Cotswold Line - a legacy of the line being part of Regional Railways once. Title: Re: The Two TOC Train Post by: Chris from Nailsea on February 07, 2009, 03:43:31 Thank you for your post, Richard - and welcome to the Coffee Shop forum! :)
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