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Title: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Super Guard on August 05, 2008, 18:35:09 We've been contacted for feedback, both good and bad on the current summer timetable as the 2009 summer timetable is in its 'design' stage, and FGW are looking for improvements to consider for next summer.
So any (sensible) feedback that you'd like forwarded to FGW please post here and i'll forward what I can. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: devon_metro on August 05, 2008, 18:39:25 Can we please have destinations in writing rather than in notes?
Facilities: 1+] Notes: GH Train starts at: Penzance (instead of P or whatever random letter then come up with) For example... Otherwise I quite like the layout. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Super Guard on August 05, 2008, 20:29:19 I should have made it a little clearer.... I meant feedback in times/frequencies of services etc ;)
Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: devon_metro on August 05, 2008, 22:13:03 They want such detailed feedback???
I'm impressed :p Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: eightf48544 on August 06, 2008, 11:11:02 Do we put feedback on here?
If so, Sunday services at Taplow, with the Relief line speeds now 90 this would cause no problems at all. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Btline on August 06, 2008, 14:28:35 Why do FGW print the timetable vertically all of the time.
They could save so much paper -and ink - by switching to horizontal occasionally (esp the Reading summary table!!!). And I agree with D/M, less letters and more words. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: swlines on August 08, 2008, 04:09:49 Hourly Weymouth via Castle Cary's - requires less units and would mean a 67 shuttle is put to better use rather than waiting in Jersey Sidings all the time.
Pembroke Dock services to operate as adex at xx45 instead of extension of Swansea, likewise Newquay at xx36. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: John R on August 08, 2008, 08:33:38 I've mentioned it before on this Forum, but the first arrivals from London and Bristol into Plymouth are much too late. (Yes there are early stopping services from Bristol but they take much too long for business traffic.) The first ex London service doesn't get in until gone 11am, having gone the long way around.
The reason for this would appear to be that any earlier arrivals (say 0930-0945)then don't have a logical working back, as at that time of the morning all the northbound services from Plymouth have worked up from Penzance. So I accept that introducing such a service would be problematic in terms of rolling stock resourcing. But if you compare Plymouth with other cities such as Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, you can get to all of them from London before 10am, let alone 11am. Between XC (from Bristol) and FGW it shouldn't be impossible to sort this. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Timmer on August 09, 2008, 12:26:47 Some suggestions for the Bristol-Weymouth line for next summer:
Separate the Bristol-Weymouth from Bristol-Gloucester/Worcester services. Having these services joined together is producing delays and late running services on the Weymouth line. Have some services start from Cardiff during the summer so passengers from South Wales don't have to change at Bristol. Run the loco service Mon-Sat during the summer on timetabled services rather than as an additional service freeing up some 150/158s to bolster summer services elsewhere. You are then virtually guaranteed a return on the hiring of the loco set as the service will pretty much always be well loaded. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: woody on August 11, 2008, 21:38:11 I've mentioned it before on this Forum, but the first arrivals from London and Bristol into Plymouth are much too late. (Yes there are early stopping services from Bristol but they take much too long for business traffic.) The first ex London service doesn't get in until gone 11am, having gone the long way around. That^s why Air South Wests 4 daily Newquay/Plymouth/Gatwick flights are locally regarded as vitally important to the Plymouth economy.In a recent survey of the Plymouth business community, not surprisingly 2 out 3 businesses said rail did not serve their needs.The problem FGW face from Plymouth is that road and air links have improved at a much faster rate than rail.The slow and sinuous rail route between Exeter and Plymouth still being a major handicap.As a result of this Plymouth is perceived as being much further from London by rail than it actually is when compared to road and The reason for this would appear to be that any earlier arrivals (say 0930-0945)then don't have a logical working back, as at that time of the morning all the northbound services from Plymouth have worked up from Penzance. So I accept that introducing such a service would be problematic in terms of rolling stock resourcing. But if you compare Plymouth with other cities such as Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, you can get to all of them from London before 10am, let alone 11am. Between XC (from Bristol) and FGW it shouldn't be impossible to sort this. Air. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: G.Uard on August 11, 2008, 22:37:12 Some suggestions for the Bristol-Weymouth line for next summer: Separate the Bristol-Weymouth from Bristol-Gloucester/Worcester services. Having these services joined together is producing delays and late running services on the Weymouth line. Delayed services from Weymouth also cause problems. Whether this is a knock on from earlier problems north of Bristol, I am not sure, but early afternoon Gloucester services originating from Weymouth often miss stops north of Bristol due to late arrival of trains at BTM. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: John R on August 11, 2008, 22:48:23 I've mentioned it before on this Forum, but the first arrivals from London and Bristol into Plymouth are much too late. (Yes there are early stopping services from Bristol but they take much too long for business traffic.) The first ex London service doesn't get in until gone 11am, having gone the long way around. That^s why Air South Wests 4 daily Newquay/Plymouth/Gatwick flights are locally regarded as vitally important to the Plymouth economy.In a recent survey of the Plymouth business community, not surprisingly 2 out 3 businesses said rail did not serve their needs.The problem FGW face from Plymouth is that road and air links have improved at a much faster rate than rail.The slow and sinuous rail route between Exeter and Plymouth still being a major handicap.As a result of this Plymouth is perceived as being much further from London by rail than it actually is when compared to road and The reason for this would appear to be that any earlier arrivals (say 0930-0945)then don't have a logical working back, as at that time of the morning all the northbound services from Plymouth have worked up from Penzance. So I accept that introducing such a service would be problematic in terms of rolling stock resourcing. But if you compare Plymouth with other cities such as Newcastle, Leeds, Manchester, Sheffield, Liverpool, you can get to all of them from London before 10am, let alone 11am. Between XC (from Bristol) and FGW it shouldn't be impossible to sort this. Air. From Bristol Virgin ran a service departing at 0708 arriving Plymouth 0909 in the first year of Operation Princess. The equivalent FGW service today leaves at 0646 and arrives at 0924, so 37 minutes longer. It's true though that the late first arrival from London appears a well established failing - having sampled timetables back over the last 20 years or so. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: swlines on August 11, 2008, 23:41:49 I think it would be of benefit to run an additional service to Penzance very early morning from Paddington ... perhaps something like this:
0503 London Paddington or 0430 London Paddington Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Timmer on August 12, 2008, 07:03:58 Delayed services from Weymouth also cause problems. Whether this is a knock on from earlier problems north of Bristol, I am not sure, but early afternoon Gloucester services originating from Weymouth often miss stops north of Bristol due to late arrival of trains at BTM. They do indeed, which is mentioned by willc in his post regarding hourly Worcester-Gloucester services from December with his concern about reliability of services originating from the South Coast:http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=3251.msg25100#msg25100 Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: alexander b on August 12, 2008, 09:40:30 I think it would be of benefit to run an additional service to Penzance very early morning from Paddington ... perhaps something like this: 0503 London Paddington or 0430 London Paddington My idea of an early train running towards Plymouth would be this; London Paddington 05:57 Reading 06:24 Taunton 07:40 Tiverton Parkway 07:53 Exeter St. David's 08:11 Newton Abbot 08:32 Totnes 08:46 Plymouth (Arr) 09:14 Train Would Continue For Stations To Penzance Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: grahame on August 12, 2008, 11:49:08 IMHO ... it would be utterly logical for FGW to provide an early Westbound service via the Berks and Hants
It has often struck me as disappointing as to just how late the first service leaves - 08:18 from Paddington, but of course there's no point in running a train (especially one which might need to be an addition to the fleet) if it's going to be carrying fresh air around. Would it be an extra train? Would it load? As far as I can see (but Tom may be able to see something I can't) it would need to be an extra set if it went all the way to Plymouth - but it could turn round, circa 7:15 to 7:30 at Taunton and take up the path of one of the whole series of trains which currently come up from Exeter and Plymouth at that point - a few minutes apart in some cases. Connection at Taunton into a Cross Country train that gets stopped at Bristol rather than Plymouth overnight - or is that too much like co-operation? Would it load? Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: eightf48544 on August 12, 2008, 15:21:48 Would it load? Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service. grahame's question Would it load is very perceptive of teh treatment of rail against air and road. When a new runway or road is proposed it's just assummed that it will be used because growth will require it. Rail travel is growing but somehow you have to prove a train will load before it's put in the timetable. The only way of decidng if an early train to the West would load is to run preferably with cheap advanced and day fares as it's against the flow. However the danager is that such a train is put in teh timetable and gradually custom builds up but not to full and standing so teh next economy drive and off it comes (no demand!). It's a bit like Melksham Wessex built up a reasonable service and patronage but because it wasn't full and standing all day the DfT pulled the plug in the franchise spec. That's the problem with rail as opposed to road or airports. "use it lose it". It's easy to not run a train, but nobody talks about closing an airport or digging up a motorway because it's not heavily used. Although it will be interesting to see if Newquay airport survies BA's withdrawal (see other post). That will be a first an airport closing because of lack of traffic. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Hafren on August 12, 2008, 17:21:14 When considering an early train to Plymouth, does 'competition' with the sleeper need to be considered? If there's an early train, it would probably attract some people who might have used the sleeper before (or at least be seen in that light), and people looking at it from a cost point of view might see the sleeper as serving the same market. So the new service might be seen as duplicating the sleeper, making either the new train or the sleeper look less viable in the eyes of the bean counters, regardless of any potential growth?
Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: devon_metro on August 12, 2008, 17:45:45 I think it would be of benefit to run an additional service to Penzance very early morning from Paddington ... perhaps something like this: 0503 London Paddington or 0430 London Paddington How did you manage EXD-NTA in 14 mins????????????? Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: John R on August 12, 2008, 18:29:04 When considering an early train to Plymouth, does 'competition' with the sleeper need to be considered? If there's an early train, it would probably attract some people who might have used the sleeper before (or at least be seen in that light), and people looking at it from a cost point of view might see the sleeper as serving the same market. So the new service might be seen as duplicating the sleeper, making either the new train or the sleeper look less viable in the eyes of the bean counters, regardless of any potential growth? In the past the sleeper was a viable option as a sleeper coach was detached at Plymouth, enabling passengers to rise at an acceptable time. However, the new franchise removed that facility, so unless business travellers can find something worthwhile to do between 0547 and their meeting, I suspect they will not find the option attractive. So in fact you've highlighted that the lack of an early train is even more of a problem now. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: Btline on August 12, 2008, 18:43:46 Would it load? Not magnificently, I suspect, but I'm always surprised by the number of people heading West from Newbury and Westbury ... who could certainly do with an earlier service. grahame's question Would it load is very perceptive of teh treatment of rail against air and road. When a new runway or road is proposed it's just assummed that it will be used because growth will require it. Rail travel is growing but somehow you have to prove a train will load before it's put in the timetable. The only way of decidng if an early train to the West would load is to run preferably with cheap advanced and day fares as it's against the flow. However the danager is that such a train is put in teh timetable and gradually custom builds up but not to full and standing so teh next economy drive and off it comes (no demand!). It's a bit like Melksham Wessex built up a reasonable service and patronage but because it wasn't full and standing all day the DfT pulled the plug in the franchise spec. That's the problem with rail as opposed to road or airports. "use it lose it". It's easy to not run a train, but nobody talks about closing an airport or digging up a motorway because it's not heavily used. Although it will be interesting to see if Newquay airport survies BA's withdrawal (see other post). That will be a first an airport closing because of lack of traffic. I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road). Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: woody on August 12, 2008, 21:17:49 The draft crosscountry timetable for December 2008 shows a new "commuter" service departing Bristol at 06.42 arriving Plymouth 08.34 a bit too early though for a connection off a FGW ex Paddington service I think.
Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: swlines on August 13, 2008, 00:18:05 Yes my proposal would require an extra set... however.... see these timings instead:
0500 London Paddington (slightly more realistic timings) Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: John R on August 13, 2008, 07:15:44 The draft crosscountry timetable for December 2008 shows a new "commuter" service departing Bristol at 06.42 arriving Plymouth 08.34 a bit too early though for a connection off a FGW ex Paddington service I think. Ah, excellent news. That's much more appropriate. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: devon_metro on August 13, 2008, 09:39:58 Yes my proposal would require an extra set... however.... see these timings instead: 0500 London Paddington (slightly more realistic timings) 15 minutes to get into Plymouth city centre give or take 5/10 minutes delay is a bit tight for a 9am start. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: eightf48544 on August 13, 2008, 15:22:31 I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road). Maybe so but it's still a road and open 24/7, people will still use it irrespective of it's designation. The only thing they might do is slap a 60 or 50 mph restriction on it. However, that's not likely to deter many users. But, you can only catch a train that runs so at present unless an earlier train to the West is provided you can't get to Plymouth any earlier in the day unless you drive or go by sleeper. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: BPWuser on August 13, 2008, 22:02:11 How about a later last train from Bristol Temple Meads to Bristol Parkway during the week? 22.10 is not late enough. On Saturdays there is a 22.54, can this be added during the week?
Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: woody on August 14, 2008, 22:26:33 I agree, but roads are down graded every so often (e.g. M10 soon to be an A-road). Maybe so but it's still a road and open 24/7, people will still use it irrespective of it's designation. The only thing they might do is slap a 60 or 50 mph restriction on it. However, that's not likely to deter many users. But, you can only catch a train that runs so at present unless an earlier train to the West is provided you can't get to Plymouth any earlier in the day unless you drive or go by sleeper. Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: IndustryInsider on August 15, 2008, 13:22:11 I've stated my off-peak ideas for Maidenhead before, but improvements could be made to the evening service with no investment and little impact on track capacity.
I think a better late evening service should be provided from London to Maidenhead/Twyford. Evening stopping trains out of Paddington are very popular especially for Maidenhead passengers - even though they have to endure journey times of 40 minutes. This could be achieved, for example, by stopping the 22:21, 23:21 and 00:21 departures from Paddington at Maidenhead, and stopping the 22:48 and 00:21 departures at Twyford. Connections onto the Marlow/Henley branches could perhaps be jigged about a bit to provide connections where necessary? Title: Re: Your Feedback for the 2009 Summer Timetable Post by: IndustryInsider on August 16, 2008, 08:52:48 Another badly needed 'quick win' is to strenghen the first up Cotswold Line service on Sunday mornings - the 09:01 Gt. Malvern to Paddington (Oxford 10:30) HAS to be a turbo as it's the back working of the last down train on Saturday evening, but as there isn't another train heading towards London on the Cotswold Line for another two hours it is usually full-and-standing from Oxford and ridiculously busy after Slough.
A 2-car (or preferably even a 3-car) should be waiting at Oxford for the 09:01 to attach to. There are PLENTY of spare units around at this time of the day, so there really is no excuse for putting the punters through that level of overcrowding every week. Also, when a turbo has to sub a HST on a Sunday afternoon/early evening Up service (seemingly less common now thankfully) there should be appropriate contingencies to ensure it has to be a 3-car and there should again be a 2/3 car added at Oxford. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |