Title: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 15, 2024, 12:52:25 Next round of dates announced by ASLEF. These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced:
Strikes & Non-compulsory overtime ban dates Avanti West Coast Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6 February. C2C Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Chiltern Railways Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. CrossCountry Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. East Midlands Railway Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Great Western Railway Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Greater Anglia Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. GTR Great Northern Thameslink Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Island Line Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. LNER Strike day: Friday 2 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Northern Trains Strike day: Wednesday 31 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. South Western Railway Depot Drivers Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. South Western Railway Mainline Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Southeastern Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Southern/Gatwick Express Strike day: Tuesday 30 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. Transpennine Trains Strike day: Wednesday 31 January 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. West Midlands Trains Strike day: Saturday 3 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until23:59 Tuesday 6 February. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 15, 2024, 12:55:45 Next round of dates announced by ASLEF. [snip] Great Western Railway Strike day: Monday 5 February 00:01 - 23:59. No non-compulsory overtime from 00:01 Monday 29 January until 23:59 Tuesday 6February. I fear I should add "2024" to the subject line. Is "2025" being too pessimistic? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on January 15, 2024, 16:14:34 These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 19, 2024, 09:27:44 These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service. LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576) Quote LNER train drivers to strike for five more days Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on January 19, 2024, 12:50:50 These will be the first that adhere to the Minimum Service Level legislation recently introduced Early days but it appears some TOCs aren’t planning on using that MSL’s. Some are already stating there will be no service. LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576) Quote LNER train drivers to strike for five more days Did LNER drop the ball here or was it deliberate? The TOCs have to give the unions 7 days notice if they want to impose a minimum service level. The union needs to give 14 days notice of strike action. You would have thought LNER would have waited until the last minute before informing ASLEF Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 22, 2024, 15:45:16 LNER *are* planning to use it - and as a result (as I'm reading it), ASLEF are stepping or considering stepping up their LNER strike. From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68017576) Quote LNER train drivers to strike for five more days Update from the BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68054064 Quote Train drivers' union Aslef has called off five consecutive days of strikes on LNER services that were set to begin next month. The action affecting LNER, which operates on the East Coast Mainline, was scheduled to start on 5 February. However, walkouts by train drivers for many rail operators will still take place between 30 January and 5 February in a row over pay and conditions. LNER drivers will join in one day of strikes during that period. A source told the BBC that Aslef had called off the extra five days of action because LNER had told the union that it no longer intended to put minimum service levels (MSLs) in place. LNER had planned to implement the measure on 2 February, during a period of widespread strike action that will affect 16 train operators. Under new laws, employers can require staff who are planning to walkout to provide 40% of timetabled rail services. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 26, 2024, 17:26:24 Looking for a bit of advice on behalf of a friend who is looking to travel from Westbury to Paddington (and back!) on Monday - is the overtime ban likely to have much impact on GWR services in the morning/evening peak?
He's trying to decide whether to make the effort. Appreciate that this may be a difficult one to call but any advice would be most welcome. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 26, 2024, 17:38:47 Looking for a bit of advice on behalf of a friend who is looking to travel from Westbury to Paddington (and back!) on Monday - is the overtime ban likely to have much impact on GWR services in the morning/evening peak? He's trying to decide whether to make the effort. Appreciate that this may be a difficult one to call but any advice would be most welcome. Personal reply - I would go for it, but travel up a train or two earlier than I needed for my appointments of whatever I was doing, and then expect that I might be a train or two behind my ideal. But then that is me / I am relatively robust. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 26, 2024, 18:01:27 Sounds like good advice to me, Graham.
But, Monday 5th is the actual strike day, not an overtime ban day. This time of year an overtime ban is unlikely to have much effect, apart from on a Sunday when it will result in widespread disruption as before. So avoid Sunday 4th Feb and then the actual strike day on GWR will also be badly disrupted. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 26, 2024, 19:41:10 Sounds like good advice to me, Graham. But, Monday 5th is the actual strike day, not an overtime ban day. This time of year an overtime ban is unlikely to have much effect, apart from on a Sunday when it will result in widespread disruption as before. So avoid Sunday 4th Feb and then the actual strike day on GWR will also be badly disrupted. Yours is good advice for Monday 5th - mine (I may have misread the question) was for next Monday, 29th January. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 26, 2024, 19:54:50 Yes, if it was Monday 29th your advice is perfect.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 26, 2024, 21:45:52 Yes, if it was Monday 29th your advice is perfect. The question was in respect of the 29th but thanks both. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 29, 2024, 16:31:24 Advice from GWR:
Quote Dear Graham We wrote to you last week about ASLEF (train drivers union) industrial action starting today (Monday 29 January) until Tuesday 6 February, with a strike at GWR on Monday 5 February and action short of a strike for the other affected days. This means that we are now only able to run a very limited high-speed service this Sunday 4 February, as we have fewer drivers available to work – especially on our long-distance services. As such, some parts of the GWR network will have no service at all, including all long distance trains out of London Paddington to Bristol, South Wales, and the South West. There will be no replacement bus services in lieu of these services in operation either. Customers are advised to travel before the weekend or after Sunday. Where we can run services (and we expect to this include most of our local services), only a limited number of trains will run, they will be much busier than usual, and services will be subject to short notice alteration or cancellations. Online journey planners should now be updated and accurate. Customers with tickets for travel from Tuesday 30 January to Monday 5 February can use these to travel from today (Monday 29 January) up to and including Wednesday 7 February. Passengers aiming to travel from now until Tuesday 6 February should check before they travel using www.gwr.com/check. For full information please visit our dedicated strike page www.gwr.com/strike, which also includes information on refunds. If you can share this amongst your networks, we would be greatly appreciative, and apologies for the disruption and the further difficult news. If there’s anything we can do to help, please don’t hesitate to get in touch. Best wishes Tom Shared, as requested. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on January 29, 2024, 16:59:17 As for the long distance network, it's effected more on Sunday than on the actual strike day Monday. I hope the Cardiff rugby passes off well on Saturday night & everyone gets to where they want to be.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Timmer on January 29, 2024, 19:54:39 With SWR down as running a pretty normal Sunday service, journey planners are showing Cardiff-Bristol-Bath to London via Salisbury for Waterloo and South West to London changing onto SWR services at Exeter for Waterloo.
I wonder what, if anything SWR will do, particularly at Exeter to manage this? Am I right in saying they cannot running anything longer than x2 159s between Exeter and Salisbury? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on January 29, 2024, 20:38:52 With SWR down as running a pretty normal Sunday service, journey planners are showing Cardiff-Bristol-Bath to London via Salisbury for Waterloo and South West to London changing onto SWR services at Exeter for Waterloo. I wonder what, if anything SWR will do, particularly at Exeter to manage this? Am I right in saying they cannot running anything longer than x2 159s between Exeter and Salisbury? Walkup fares via Honiton and via Warminster should be cheaper too :D ;D Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on January 30, 2024, 12:44:24 Simon Calder has tweeted -
Quote with the newly announced strikes by members of the RMT union working for London Overground: 19-20 February 4-5 March Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: bobm on January 31, 2024, 10:15:37 (https://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/matt.jpg)
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on February 05, 2024, 16:59:58 On a day of hardly any trains due to industial action into the third year, I bring you https://aslef.org.uk/news/they-sold-their-souls-mess-pottage from ASLEF's Mick Whelan
Quote Mick Whelan's column: February 2024 Colleagues, we entered the new year announcing action across the train operating companies whose hands have been tied by the Tory government at Westminster. It is the bad faith shown by those companies in negotiations last year - and the determination of the Tories to turn this into a political dispute, rather than to allow individual TOCs to negotiate with us in the traditional way, using free collective bargaining - that caused us to have to take industrial action in furtherance of our pay and conditions protection. This should not have happened, ad does not need to happen, but has been forced upon us. Let us not forget the other bad actors in the process: the companies themselves who sold their mercenary souls for a mess of pottage, happy to crap on their drivers, and other grades, to keep their snouts in the trough. [continues] I have some sympathy with that view that the companies have sold their souls, but I would differ with Mick in suggeston they are happy to crap on their drivers - some I see are desparately unhappy about it, realising the damage it does for the future. And if they do what Mick describes as "taking their snouts out of the trough", what good would it do? There are others who will step in to take their place. The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: JayMac on February 05, 2024, 17:31:40 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on February 05, 2024, 20:54:03 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members. Indeed - and I have three examples in the last week * One longstanding friend who has been carless is going out to buy one * Another who's a daily commuter on shift work on our line into Swindon is taking driving lessons * And the third who was planning to go by rail to Southampton and back has instead taken the bus even though he'll now have to go the day before to be there in time for his appointment. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on February 05, 2024, 22:19:26 And it is they who are deserting the railway to other methods of transport. Fewer passengers will mean a reduction in train services. Which will mean a reduction in the workforce. Mr Lynch is doing untold damage to the job security of his members. Wrong Mick. ;) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: JayMac on February 05, 2024, 23:18:30 As far as their worldview goes, Messrs Lynch and Whelan are fairly interchangeable. :P
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on February 06, 2024, 00:52:33 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”. The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money. Their hate of rail is clearly evident. The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes. The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there. That sort of position leads to spiralling costs. We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on February 06, 2024, 06:38:22 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”. I can accept that - except that it has come to me for wider circulation: Quote They sold their souls for a mess of pottage ASLEF (Press Release) The Government don't exactly come out of this showing much concern for "passengers" or "customers" either. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 06, 2024, 06:59:53 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”. The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money. Their hate of rail is clearly evident. The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes. The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there. That sort of position leads to spiralling costs. We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover. ..........and breathe....... :) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: GBM on February 06, 2024, 08:17:27 Don't talk about religion or politics!
Both have their pro's and con's, and never the twain shall meet. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on February 06, 2024, 17:29:11 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”. The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money. Their hate of rail is clearly evident. The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes. The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there. That sort of position leads to spiralling costs. We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover. ..........and breathe....... :) I’ve waffled…. and gone off on one! Man flu and sleep deprivation. ;D Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on February 06, 2024, 19:24:38 I don’t think many of us have a problem with you showing a bit of passion about the subject.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 07, 2024, 07:16:35 I don’t think many of us have a problem with you showing a bit of passion about the subject. Nothing wrong with a good vent now and again, especially if it helps blow the manflu away! :) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Electric train on February 07, 2024, 20:52:58 The words "passenger" and "customer" do not appear in the column ... The words “passenger” and “customer” do not appear in the column because he is talking to “colleagues”. The foremost concern of all colleagues is the wholly unacceptable decimation of our terms and conditions, something that the government is totally aware of. The government believe that the cost of operating the UK railway network, some £30bn, is a total waste of money. Their hate of rail is clearly evident. The likes of Mark Hopwood fully understand to increase revenue they need to increase services on existing routes and bring in new routes. The government continually blocks this and firmly believes to balance the books requires cuts to services. This frustrates not only a lot of TOCs but also suppliers who are losing confidence in the rail industry and are turning their backs on it. The security isn’t there. That sort of position leads to spiralling costs. We need to shift from the current total anti-rail government to something that is more favourable and actually listens to the industry as a whole. The longer we stay as we are, the greater the damage being caused to the industry and the longer it will take to recover. a-driver I would go a step further this Government is anti public services full stop Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2024, 07:12:44 I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision?
BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: GBM on February 25, 2024, 08:40:13 I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision? Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822 They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action. I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive). That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on February 25, 2024, 11:24:15 I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision? Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822 They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action. I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive). That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one. I doubt many of the members will be that bothered. The vast majority are only union members for job protection etc and aren’t particularly bothered by national politics. Indeed there are union members who openly voted Tory at the last election. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2024, 17:48:48 I wonder if the membership were consulted on this decision? Not sure how that will go down with the 'rank and file' membership.BBC News - RMT leader Mick Lynch gives Jeremy Corbyn general election backing https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68393822 They will probably be more concerned with pay rises and less strike action. I left the RMT for Unite (even tho' it was/is more expensive). That was more of a local issue rather than a national level one. I doubt many of the members will be that bothered. The vast majority are only union members for job protection etc and aren’t particularly bothered by national politics. Indeed there are union members who openly voted Tory at the last election. I suspect like much of the wider population they voted Tory because of Corbyn (as Labour's post election research discovered!) Bizarre that the RMT now decide to "openly" back him. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on February 25, 2024, 18:07:36 ....to stand as an MP....
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 20, 2024, 12:31:37 Here we go again, another volley of bullets in the foot.
https://www.itv.com/news/2024-03-20/train-drivers-at-16-rail-companies-to-stage-a-fresh-wave-of-strikes Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 20, 2024, 13:03:24 Nice to see Easter not being targeted.
The action is just rumbling along at a very low level waiting for the Tories to either be replaced (hoping that Labour are prepared to talk and compromise) or decide the good PR of a settlement to all the disputes close to the election is a good strategy. The union has no other cards to play. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on March 20, 2024, 14:29:42 Yet MP’s will be enjoying an inflation-busting 5.5% rise next month with no changes to their terms & conditions against what the IPSA call an ‘extremely difficult backdrop’
What’s good enough for one should, and would, be more than acceptable to all. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Electric train on March 20, 2024, 21:37:23 Nice to see Easter not being targeted. Although it is during the school Easter holidays Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 21, 2024, 05:48:29 Nice to see Easter not being targeted. Although it is during the school Easter holidays Presumably more lucrative not to strike over the Easter weekend given premiums for working Bank Holidays/Easter Sunday? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on March 21, 2024, 09:23:13 Nice to see Easter not being targeted. Although it is during the school Easter holidays Presumably more lucrative not to strike over the Easter weekend given premiums for working Bank Holidays/Easter Sunday? No premiums for working bank holidays, it’s normal rate. Sundays are time plus 0.25. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 21, 2024, 10:10:03 Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal. So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement.
Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 22, 2024, 16:27:01 Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal. So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement. Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one. That does seem somewhat mean doesn't it? Bit of an anomaly as the drivers salaries, pensions etc are comparatively generous - although as you imply if it was part of a bigger deal that was more advantageous overall it may explain it. I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Electric train on March 22, 2024, 16:40:14 Yes, GWR drivers used to get an enhancement of 0.25 for bank holidays but that was removed several years ago as part of a pay deal. So, Good Friday and Easter Monday are flat rate pay and Easter Sunday is just a ‘normal’ Sunday with a 0.25 enhancement. Avanti are the same, but I guess some other TOC’s may still have some form of an enhancement, but even then I doubt it’s a particularly lucrative one. I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday? A railway contract I was under a few years ago, and I know is still in use, I got 6 days holiday to compensate for bank holidays being rostered as normal work days the only ones treated as bank holidays are Christmas Day, Boxing Day and New Years Day. Saturdays and Sundays also rostered the only enhanced overtime payments was for working a rest day 0.25. Railways staff are restricted in we must have 12 hours rest between shifts, and can only work 13 days out of 14 ie every 13 days we must have a day off. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 22, 2024, 17:10:48 I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday? The GWR drivers (and GWR HSS grade ones as well) don’t get any days off in lieu. IIRC bank holiday lieu days for drivers were removed going way back to the last century. Even Christmas Day/Boxing Day come out of a drivers annual leave unless they happen to be off that day anyway. Yes, it would all have been negotiated at the time as part of a pay rise, but does help demonstrate that a headline salary doesn’t always tell the full story as it doesn’t in many jobs in many industries. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 07:34:48 I take it that they at least get a day off in lieu for working a Bank Holiday? The GWR drivers (and GWR HSS grade ones as well) don’t get any days off in lieu. IIRC bank holiday lieu days for drivers were removed going way back to the last century. Even Christmas Day/Boxing Day come out of a drivers annual leave unless they happen to be off that day anyway. Yes, it would all have been negotiated at the time as part of a pay rise, but does help demonstrate that a headline salary doesn’t always tell the full story as it doesn’t in many jobs in many industries. Got it - GWRs website states 32 days annual leave "inclusive of Bank Holidays", which suggests they've been "rolled in", whereas for mere mortals such as myself annual leave is expressed as something along the lines of 25 days + bank holidays. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on March 23, 2024, 08:21:19 Got it - GWRs website states 32 days annual leave "inclusive of Bank Holidays", which suggests they've been "rolled in", whereas for mere mortals such as myself annual leave is expressed as something along the lines of 25 days + bank holidays. I'm not sure that it's "mere mortals" or a sensible way of doing it for a business / operation that's running 363/364 days a year. It's exactly what we did when running our hotel (and that was 365/366 days a year) and with the team we had it worked for everyone. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 09:05:56 Yes indeed, Graham, and I get TG’s point too. In terms of leave the railway is slowly moving in that direction, with a few sectors/businesses yet to consolidate it in that way.
Regardless, it doesn’t alter the original question, which is that that there is no enhanced pay for GWR drivers (and many others) working over Easter weekend. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 09:18:13 Regardless, it doesn’t alter the original question, which is that that there is no enhanced pay for GWR drivers (and many others) working over Easter weekend. Now that I understand the way the drivers annual leave is configured, I sort of get why they wouldn't get enhancement for working on Bank Holidays - sounds as if it was negotiated away, perhaps in return for a higher basic salary? Certainly in my business we have numerous roles that cover 365 days but those working on Bank Holidays get x 1.5 or x 2 at Xmas, but our Annual Leave is quoted as days + bank holidays.................then again those roles don't get paid as much as train drivers! ;) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 09:32:06 Which all begs the question: Why did ASLEF choose the weekend after Easter?
Is ‘public support’ still much of a consideration for a dispute that has gone on for so long? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 09:44:51 Which all begs the question: Why did ASLEF choose the weekend after Easter? Is ‘public support’ still much of a consideration for a dispute that has gone on for so long? I don't think the public are too bothered either way now - as you say it's been going on for so long it's become part of the landscape - an irritant/inconvenience yes but not the paralysis it may once have caused - too many alternatives available and it's only an odd day here and there. Doing it over the Easter holiday period/on a Saturday probably inconveniences more GWR leisure travellers, who are a much more significant part of the railway's business now, and they may well seek alternatives and stick with them going forward, but it'll hardly be felt by business travellers, and the overtime ban will probably just mean that more people work from home for a few extra days. The Government certainly don't seem to be bothered but then again it's not an issue upon which too many votes depend. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 23, 2024, 11:25:26 Yes, I think we’re kind of in agreement…though we’ll have to get you a Broadgage style bingo card. ;)
It’s all about letting everyone know ASLEF are still in dispute occasionally, but until the Tories are ousted there will be no real likelihood of a settlement, and fair play to ASLEF for not ruining the big Easter getaway for the all important leisure market. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 23, 2024, 11:51:02 Yes, I think we’re kind of in agreement…though we’ll have to get you a Broadgage style bingo card. ;) Ah no......whilst I actually did have a glass of Port last weekend, I quite like the IETs (when they turn up, and aren’t shortformed!) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on April 22, 2024, 13:32:24 Here we go again......
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68874928 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on April 22, 2024, 21:30:28 Here we go again...... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-68874928 Quote Staff at 16 train companies will take part in rolling one-day walkouts between 7 and 9 May over pay and working conditions. An overtime ban will also take place between 6 and 11 May. Passengers are advised to check before they travel, with the action likely to lead to delays and cancellations. The Bank Holiday falls on 6 May this year. Aslef, the train drivers' union, said it is seeking better pay for its members and claimed drivers are being asked to sacrifice working conditions in exchange for a wage increase. Drivers from several train companies will strike on different days. Tuesday 7 May: c2c, Greater Anglia, Great Northern, Thameslink, Southeastern, Southern, Gatwick Express, South Western Railway main line and Island Line Wednesday 8 May: Avanti West Coast, Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, East Midlands Railway, Great Western Railway and West Midlands Trains Thursday 9 May: LNER, Northern Trains and TransPennine Express Also ... Quote Little progress has been made in solving the row between Aslef and the rail companies since the union first started striking in July 2022. It has been going on do long it has almost ceased to be news. Lisa and I arrive on a ferry into Portsmouth in the afternoon of 8th May. We're just shrugging our shoulders and booking in to somewhere to stay overnight until the following morning. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on May 02, 2024, 13:39:34 ASLEF have today received an approach from the RDG to discuss a framework for reopening talks. No fresh offer has been received though.
Fingers crossed. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 02, 2024, 13:55:57 Politically beneficial to settle just before an election?
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on May 02, 2024, 14:25:08 Politically beneficial to settle just before an election? Surely they know they’re finished regardless of this dispute? Edit: Thinking about it. You could be right! Burden someone else with the financial settlement. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 02, 2024, 15:05:28 Yes, I was thinking along those lines. Also, even though they are heading for a big defeat, the less seats they lose the better for them.
As we’re often reminded, it’s not a massive political issue, but there’s an apt saying that Tesco coined a few years ago… Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 02, 2024, 21:46:13 Yes, I was thinking along those lines. Also, even though they are heading for a big defeat, the less seats they lose the better for them. And we should be minded that there are 345 individual Conservative MPs, the majority of whom would love to have another go. and some are ministers. It's not just numbers - it's personal. And there are some very interesting decisions and statements being made at the moment - both in terms of who they will please and what legacy they will leave. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 04, 2024, 08:01:31 Mick Whelan is apparently "incredibly upbeat" about his ongoing strike - hard not to be I guess, given all that its achieved ::)
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/rail-union-leader-incredibly-upbeat-ahead-of-next-train-drivers-strikes/ar-AA1o6aLL?ocid=BingNewsSerp Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 04, 2024, 08:38:52 From GWR this morning ...
Quote Dear Graham, We’re sorry to inform you that strike action will affect GWR, Cross Country, Chiltern Railways and other train operators on Wednesday 8 May 2024. Service changes and potential disruptions On Wednesday 8 May, a reduced, revised timetable will operate across several train operators, including GWR. Many parts of the GWR network will have no service at all and trains that are running will only be operating for a limited period during the day. In addition, from Monday 6 to Saturday 11 May, services could also be affected by a limited number of short-notice cancellations and alterations. What can you do on strike days? Where trains can operate, they're expected to be very busy. If you're travelling during this period, you should check both outward and return journeys before travelling. Other train operators will also be affected, so onward travel may be impacted as well. You could also consider travelling on another day. If you've already purchased a ticket for a strike day, you can claim a full refund or change the date and time of your ticket. And link to https://www.gwr.com/strike Personally, arriving into Portsmouth at 17:30 on 8th on the ship from Spain. Booked into a hotel to travel home the next morning. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 09, 2024, 07:07:45 Looking at all the delays/cancellations/short running today/this week it would seem that the "action short of a strike" is having more of an impact on GWR than previous efforts from ASLEF?
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: AMLAG on May 09, 2024, 12:17:44 Recent ASLEF strike days have seen no gWR special main line contingency TTs, leaving most stations with no services and the major regional hub of Bristol TM yesterday with only an hourly shuttle to Cardiff. Cross Country ran no trains at all anywhere. Seems that most Driver Managers and others are no longer prepared to drive trains on strike days. What few local gWR services that ran were possibly worked by staff that could just not afford or find justification to loose even more pay or were non union members. Train drivers and others who work for Rail Freight Co’s, with resultant less Government interference, have good reasons to be pleased with their employment situations. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 09, 2024, 22:15:11 Seems that most Driver Managers and others are no longer prepared to drive trains on strike days. If it’s a weekday they have no choice in the matter! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: didcotdean on May 10, 2024, 09:49:17 For the last two strike days the GWR announcement has indicated no trains between London & Reading because of engineering work taking place, presumably part of the remedial infrastructure programme. Doesn't explain dropping services that typically ran previously during ASLEF strikes elsewhere of course.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Wizard on May 12, 2024, 09:22:08 I think some of the managers decided it wasn’t worth the hassle after the Ladbroke Grove wire incident last December. They are allowed to refuse.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 12, 2024, 10:40:52 I think some of the managers decided it wasn’t worth the hassle after the Ladbroke Grove wire incident last December. They are allowed to refuse. AIUI GWR Driver Managers are not allowed to refuse if it is a weekday and they haven't pre-booked leave or anything like that...at least that's what I was told by one of them. Happy to be corrected if you can provide some evidence to the contrary? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Wizard on May 12, 2024, 12:39:30 I think some of the managers decided it wasn’t worth the hassle after the Ladbroke Grove wire incident last December. They are allowed to refuse. AIUI GWR Driver Managers are not allowed to refuse if it is a weekday and they haven't pre-booked leave or anything like that...at least that's what I was told by one of them. Happy to be corrected if you can provide some evidence to the contrary? I have no physical evidence, I was just told by my own that he had refused to work (I think it was the February strike) and so had the other managers at the depot. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 12, 2024, 14:13:43 I think some of the managers decided it wasn’t worth the hassle after the Ladbroke Grove wire incident last December. They are allowed to refuse. AIUI GWR Driver Managers are not allowed to refuse if it is a weekday and they haven't pre-booked leave or anything like that...at least that's what I was told by one of them. Happy to be corrected if you can provide some evidence to the contrary? I have no physical evidence, I was just told by my own that he had refused to work (I think it was the February strike) and so had the other managers at the depot. Are driver/managers eligible to join ASLEF? If so how could they be stopped from striking if they wanted to? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 12, 2024, 14:30:37 Driver Managers? As far as I know they are not eligible for ASLEF and are all in the TSSA.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 12, 2024, 14:37:04 Driver Managers? As far as I know they are not eligible for ASLEF and are all in the TSSA. Takes me back to my Local Government days - most of the admin staff were in UNISON, whereas the managers tended to join GMB UNISON was at least in part the successor to NALGO, which was always rumoured to have stood for "Not A Lot Going On"! :D Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 12, 2024, 14:48:55 Depending who you speak to about the BTP it can also stand for Be There Presently, or, if you’re less enamoured with them, Be There Perhaps!
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Wizard on May 12, 2024, 16:21:49 Driver Managers? As far as I know they are not eligible for ASLEF and are all in the TSSA. Mine is still in Aslef, or was when I was speaking to him in February at least. There are no restrictions on being an Aslef member if you still drive trains. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2024, 10:27:56 That’s interesting to hear. It’s not been my experience in the depots I know well, but it sounds like there might be variations regionally then, and no actual ban on them being members, and I stand corrected.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2024, 16:14:56 Latest ballot results:
Great Western Railway Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike? YES 981 (90.83%) NO 99 (9.17%) Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike? YES 1051 (97.50%) NO 27 (2.50%) Turnout: 76.11% Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2024, 17:10:56 Surely, the % figures ought to be of those entitled to vote, not that did vote?
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 13, 2024, 17:28:53 Surely, the % figures ought to be of those entitled to vote, not that did vote? 69% of those entitled to vote actually voted that they were prepared to take part in a strike, and 74% that they would take part in industrial action short of a strike. Those are impressive figures when you compare them - for example - to our local Police and Crime Commissioner vote the other week, where only 22% voted and only 31% of them for the chap who got the job - so that's around 7% of those entitled to vote. As a pendant, if I were a train driver and was asked "Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?" if the truth be know, I would probably have voted "Yes". But not because I wanted to strike, and irrespective of what I though of the case. The biggest influence on my binary decision would be the knowledge that for years to come I would have to work alongside my colleagues and if I was not prepared to go strike ... memories are long, and there is much to be said for going along with the group decision. The question asked was "are you prepapred to take part" and not "do you want to take part". Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2024, 17:32:01 Whose neck do you hang around? ??? :o ;D
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 13, 2024, 17:44:49 Whose neck do you hang around? ??? :o ;D Oh indeed - my answer is the pragmatic one, and not showing any strong desire to take a different and perhaps difficult path to my colleagues. I admit I am a coward. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 13, 2024, 18:28:08 Surely, the % figures ought to be of those entitled to vote, not that did vote? I would agree if there was any attempt to hide the turnout figures, but it’s all there and pretty transparent IMHO. And still a very strong mandate. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on May 13, 2024, 21:07:52 Whose neck do you hang around? ??? :o ;D Oh indeed - my answer is the pragmatic one, and not showing any strong desire to take a different and perhaps difficult path to my colleagues. I admit I am a coward. Re-read your post.... ;D As a pendant, if I were a train driver ..... Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 13, 2024, 21:36:17 Re-read your post.... ;D As a pendant, if I were a train driver ..... Darned smell correct! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2024, 06:49:27 Surely, the % figures ought to be of those entitled to vote, not that did vote? As a pendant, if I were a train driver and was asked "Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike?" if the truth be know, I would probably have voted "Yes". But not because I wanted to strike, and irrespective of what I though of the case. The biggest influence on my binary decision would be the knowledge that for years to come I would have to work alongside my colleagues and if I was not prepared to go strike ... memories are long, and there is much to be said for going along with the group decision. The question asked was "are you prepapred to take part" and not "do you want to take part". Voting in (what I assume?) was a secret ballot doesn't bind you to a particular course of action regardless of the outcome of that ballot. You should vote with your conscience. It's a shame if people are still being ostracised and/or intimidated in the way you suggest may happen, in my public sector days I crossed plenty of picket lines which were often manned by colleagues and beyond a little short term tension occasionally it never affected friendships or working relationships longer term. I think one of the joys of living in a democracy is that people are permitted to hold and express different views and act accordingly without fear of repercussions. If anyone seeks to suppress this by any means, it's them that should be held to account, as we all know where that road ends. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on May 24, 2024, 05:39:58 Quote On this day - 24th May (2021) Members of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers vote overwhelmingly in favour of strike action, paving the way for the first national rail strike since 1994 And here we are, three years later ... industrial action still so regular that it's become a standard reason given to me when people explain why they don't use the train - "we can't rely on it". When will it ever end? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: plymothian on May 24, 2024, 09:12:57 Seeing as we're now 6 weeks from a general election, certainly not soon.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on July 07, 2024, 07:38:41 Seeing as we're now 6 weeks from a general election, certainly not soon. Six weeks later, new government - what happens now? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 07, 2024, 08:27:57 My money would be on either "more constructive talks to take place" or perhaps some minor concession which allows both sides to claim "victory" and save face.
The dispute which the Government wants to get out of the way is the junior Doctors, and that's where the chequebook will be opened and the money will be going - the rail unions will be some way back in the queue in this context. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 07, 2024, 11:04:31 Six weeks later, new government - what happens now? I reckon there will be an offer of a 'no-strings-attached' pay rise soon (quite a small one in poercentage terms) with a commitment to discuss a further increases with associated work practice reforms (i.e. with strings attached) on an individual operator basis rather than as a whole. Exactly how the Tories should have approached it after their first offer was rejected. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on July 07, 2024, 12:28:36 Seeing as we're now 6 weeks from a general election, certainly not soon. Six weeks later, new government - what happens now? The Tories will be blamed. Labour will claim it’s all far worse than we imagined. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on July 07, 2024, 13:03:29 Seeing as we're now 6 weeks from a general election, certainly not soon. Six weeks later, new government - what happens now? The Tories will be blamed. Labour will claim it’s all far worse than we imagined. That goes both ways for years. Did I really hear Liz Truss blaming her loss in the early hours of Friday morning on the consequences of what Labour left her party in 2010? One of the less gracious speeches ... of the evening and I felt it stretched reality Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on July 08, 2024, 17:50:34 That goes both ways for years. Did I really hear Liz Truss blaming her loss in the early hours of Friday morning on the consequences of what Labour left her party in 2010? One of the less gracious speeches ... of the evening and I felt it stretched reality Absolutely…… and you did hear Liz Truss say that! Unreal. Labour have already laid the groundwork for its future failings by stating we may not fix all the issues within 5 years. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on July 17, 2024, 17:01:51 From Labour List (https://labourlist.org/2024/07/aslef-labour-government-talks-pay-dispute/)
Quote The new government is set to hold fresh talks as early as next week over the train drivers’ pay dispute. The Press Association has reported that rail union ASLEF and the Department for Transport look set to enter talks to discuss the matter sometime next week. The Labour-affiliated train drivers’ union has been embroiled in a long-running row over pay with the government. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 17, 2024, 21:23:43 Reported to be taking place on Tuesday of next week.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 23, 2024, 20:45:41 And indeed they were...
From the Evening Standard, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/fresh-talks-in-train-drivers-pay-dispute-constructive-aslef/ar-BB1quGKt?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=456b2e35bccf4a5898b7866ef9350d97&ei=352) Quote Fresh talks in train drivers’ pay dispute ‘constructive’ – Aslef to resolve their long-running pay dispute have been described as “constructive”. The meeting at the Department for Transport (DfT) on Tuesday will be followed by further talks in the coming weeks. The two sides met after months of stalemate under the Conservatives in the two-year row over pay, terms and conditions. The Rail Delivery Group, which represents train companies involved in the row, was not invited to attend Tuesday’s meeting. With a new Secretary of State for Transport in place, I hope, and think, we can, and will, get a deal done Aslef members have taken 18 days of strikes since the dispute started, causing huge disruption to passengers. Mick Whelan, general secretary of Aslef, described the talks as “constructive”, adding that with a new government in place, he hopes there can be a positive resolution that works for train drivers, whom he said have not had an increase in salary for five years. Mr Whelan said the Conservative government and its transport ministers had “put the brakes” on a deal, adding: “Now, with a new Secretary of State for Transport in place, I hope, and think, we can, and will, get a deal done.” It was the first meeting between the union and the transport department since April last year. Previous talks have involved the Rail Delivery Group. Transport Secretary Louise Haigh said in a recent message on X, formerly Twitter: “Fourteen years without a workforce strategy has left our railways understaffed, reliant on voluntary working and lurching from one crisis to the next. Our urgent priority is to reset workforce relations and put passengers first.” A DfT spokesperson said: “The Transport Secretary has been clear she wants to reset industrial relations for the benefit of passengers and the workforce. “Today officials resumed talks with Aslef, holding a constructive meeting as we look to resolve this long-running dispute. “Further conversations will be held in the coming weeks.” Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 26, 2024, 16:11:38 ................something tells me they may be disappointed?
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-drivers-demand-pay-rise-five-times-higher-than-inflation-to-end-strikes/ar-BB1qGc3l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=a97511f13acf44a59d7bd5d317a5b7c8&ei=6 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on July 27, 2024, 19:08:26 ................something tells me they may be disappointed? https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-drivers-demand-pay-rise-five-times-higher-than-inflation-to-end-strikes/ar-BB1qGc3l?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=a97511f13acf44a59d7bd5d317a5b7c8&ei=6 Something tells me they won’t! No payrise for 5 years…. I’m sure inflation hasn’t been 2% every year for the last 5 years! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Wizard on July 27, 2024, 23:23:28 No, inflation is around 25% for the last five years. A £60000 salary in 2019 should be worth around £75000 now. A 10% payrise for drivers is a decent uplift but nowhere near what it ‘should’ be.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: PhilWakely on July 28, 2024, 07:13:05 No, inflation is around 25% for the last five years. A £60000 salary in 2019 should be worth around £75000 now. A 10% payrise for drivers is a decent uplift but nowhere near what it ‘should’ be. Interestingly, a Back-bench MP's salary has risen thus over the last 5 years..... 2019 £79,468 2020 £81,932 (3.1% increase) 2021 £81,932 (no increase) 2022 £84,144 (2.7% increase) 2023 £86,584 (2.9% increase) 2024 £91,346 (5.5% increase) or an increase of 14.94% over 5 years. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 28, 2024, 07:34:45 No, inflation is around 25% for the last five years. A £60000 salary in 2019 should be worth around £75000 now. A 10% payrise for drivers is a decent uplift but nowhere near what it ‘should’ be. Interestingly, a Back-bench MP's salary has risen thus over the last 5 years..... 2019 £79,468 2020 £81,932 (3.1% increase) 2021 £81,932 (no increase) 2022 £84,144 (2.7% increase) 2023 £86,584 (2.9% increase) 2024 £91,346 (5.5% increase) or an increase of 14.94% over 5 years. How would you say the two roles compare? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on July 28, 2024, 18:06:29 How would you say the two roles compare? If a train driver doesn’t turn up for work you moan and whinge like anything!!!!! If a back bencher doesn’t turn up, no one notices! *runs and dives for cover* ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 29, 2024, 05:05:20 It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information?
Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on July 29, 2024, 05:18:01 It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information? Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling? I can / will start that ball rolling but in a different direction. During the last five years, I have completed my retirement and Lisa and I are now living on pension/saving provision we had in place prior to that. We have noted that prices have increased sharply during that time and we have far, far more serious discussions these days on what and where we spend. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2024, 06:48:18 It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information? Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling? Happy to share, not sure what value it adds to the discussion as there are so many different factors involved in individual jobs, different businesses, sectors which make meaningful comparison difficult however I've never been one to moan, whinge or run/dive for cover when faced with a tricky question so here goes ;) ; 2020/21 0% 2021/22 0% 2022/23 2% 2023/24 3% 2024/25 3% Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 29, 2024, 09:12:18 It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information? Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling? Happy to share, not sure what value it adds to the discussion as there are so many different factors involved in individual jobs, different businesses, sectors which make meaningful comparison difficult however I've never been one to moan, whinge or run/dive for cover when faced with a tricky question so here goes ;) ; 2020/21 0% 2021/22 0% 2022/23 2% 2023/24 3% 2024/25 3% Thanks. So not too far off an apparently ‘unreasonable’ 10% then? Anybody else? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2024, 15:42:31 A £1.6billion overspend already in this year's transport budget, just announced
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2024, 15:50:49 Add to that the RYR programme cancelled immediately.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2024, 16:25:20 I can / will start that ball rolling but in a different direction. During the last five years, I have completed my retirement and Lisa and I are now living on pension/saving provision we had in place prior to that. You'll have to do without your Winter Fuel payment....removed unless you are on benefits. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 29, 2024, 17:18:34 A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors:
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on July 29, 2024, 17:31:14 A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp I can see a “no money left in the pot” when it comes to railway staff given what’s already been dished out. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2024, 17:38:18 Indeed - that 22% to junior doctors plus all the public sector pay rises have been included in that £22billion shortfall....
Labour have spent £24billion in 24 days by choice.... Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2024, 21:10:42 Indeed - that 22% to junior doctors plus all the public sector pay rises have been included in that £22billion shortfall.... Labour have spent £24billion in 24 days by choice.... At this rate Doctors will soon be earning almost as much as train drivers! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on July 30, 2024, 21:26:08 It would be interesting to hear what percentage of a salary/wage increase members of the forum have had over the last five years if anyone is prepared to share that information? Perhaps TG can start the ball rolling? Happy to share, not sure what value it adds to the discussion as there are so many different factors involved in individual jobs, different businesses, sectors which make meaningful comparison difficult however I've never been one to moan, whinge or run/dive for cover when faced with a tricky question so here goes ;) ; 2020/21 0% 2021/22 0% 2022/23 2% 2023/24 3% 2024/25 3% Thank you for your openness, TaplowGreen. :-X Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 30, 2024, 22:25:59 At this rate Doctors will soon be earning almost as much as train drivers! By ‘Doctors’ I presume you mean Junior Doctors (GP’s generally earn 70-100k) and if so, yes, I certainly hope so. Consultant Doctors (who were awarded a 6% pay increase last year) earn between 95-125k. The general health crisis the nation will soon face (and in some ways is already facing by my God it’s going to get far worse!), means all Doctors will be earning every penny they get. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 01, 2024, 14:27:04 Gps are just starting a work to rule - max of 25 appointments per day.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 01, 2024, 22:25:03 Gps are just starting a work to rule - max of 25 appointments per day. ......not including Sundays, which are not part of their working week! :) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ellendune on August 01, 2024, 22:56:30 Gps are just starting a work to rule - max of 25 appointments per day. Have they actually started yet? I have seen plenty of hype but no reports of action (or rather inaction). Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 02, 2024, 16:34:52 From my local GP practice site, see https://www.tyntesfield.nhs.uk/opening-hours
It's generally a Monday to Friday service, but it is possible to see a doctor at the weekend - by negotiation. ::) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 02, 2024, 17:27:56 From my local GP practice site, see https://www.tyntesfield.nhs.uk/opening-hours It's generally a Monday to Friday service, but it is possible to see a doctor at the weekend - by negotiation. ::) Round this way there's a central GP "hub" at weekends based at a local hospital, if deemed necessary via 101 triage you are invited to attend. It's staffed by locum doctors who (reputedly) receive a sum not unadjacent to £1,000 per shift. Having taken Mrs TG along a few months back on a Saturday afternoon, it actually works pretty well, and most importantly takes the pressure off A & E. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 08, 2024, 10:34:48 We're hearing a formal offer to ASLEF is likely to be made during the middle of next week.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 08, 2024, 11:10:54 We're hearing a formal offer to ASLEF is likely to be made during the middle of next week. 2% + Sundays in the working week? ;) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on August 14, 2024, 03:07:13 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9rxdrj713o
Quote The train drivers' union and the government are hopeful a deal can be struck to bring an end the long-running strike action, the BBC understands, as talks over pay are expected to take place on Wednesday. The negotiations between representatives from Aslef and the Department for Transport will aim to resolve the pay dispute between drivers and train companies in England. A breakthrough would herald the end of industrial action which has spanned more than two years and saw drivers stage 18 strikes and take part in several overtime bans, leading to cancelled services. etc Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 14, 2024, 13:25:55 Reading in another forum that talks have been adjourned with no new offer having been made.
Bruvver Whelan was asked if there had been a new offer as he was leaving the building and replied "not at this moment in time" Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 14, 2024, 14:14:47 Reading in another forum that talks have been adjourned with no new offer having been made. Bruvver Whelan was asked if there had been a new offer as he was leaving the building and replied "not at this moment in time" Resuming at 1430…… apparently. Certain issues needed clarifying (like who’s expenses were covering lunch but that might be a vicious rumour). Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 14, 2024, 14:54:25 Reading in another forum that talks have been adjourned with no new offer having been made. Bruvver Whelan was asked if there had been a new offer as he was leaving the building and replied "not at this moment in time" Resuming at 1430…… apparently. Certain issues needed clarifying (like who’s expenses were covering lunch but that might be a vicious rumour). Beer & sandwiches? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 14, 2024, 15:54:55 Reading in another forum that talks have been adjourned with no new offer having been made. Bruvver Whelan was asked if there had been a new offer as he was leaving the building and replied "not at this moment in time" Resuming at 1430…… apparently. Certain issues needed clarifying (like who’s expenses were covering lunch but that might be a vicious rumour). Beer & sandwiches? Be serious. Champagne and caviar! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 14, 2024, 17:22:27 Personally, beer and sandwiches for lunch would be fine with me - whether at Number 10 or elsewhere. :)
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 14, 2024, 17:58:15 ASLEF said that their offer is likely this time next week
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 14, 2024, 18:19:30 ASLEF said that their offer is likely this time next week Offer received…… and I can’t see members rejecting it. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 14, 2024, 18:27:14 Indeed....
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/14/aslef-train-drivers-agree-deal-that-could-end-rail-strikes-after-two-years-of-chaos Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: JayMac on August 14, 2024, 20:17:33 Excellent. We shouldn't have to add '2025' to the thread title.
Unless of course the RMT find an excuse for more action of course. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: bobm on August 14, 2024, 20:21:20 The RMT are still negotiating their 2024 claim.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 14, 2024, 21:18:07 ASLEF said that their offer is likely this time next week Offer received…… and I can’t see members rejecting it. nor can I...from The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cp9rxdrj713o) Quote Train drivers will vote on a new pay deal aimed at ending long-running strike action. It follows talks between representatives from Aslef and the Department for Transport that aimed to resolve the pay dispute between drivers and train companies in England. The new offer is for a 5% backdated pay rise for 2022/23, a 4.75% rise for 23/24, and 4.5% increase for 24/25. Aslef said the new deal was a "no-strings" offer, meaning it’s not conditional on changes to working practices. The proposed deal could end the long running train drivers’ dispute if members accept it in a vote. More than a dozen England based train companies have been affected by strike action. Aslef leader Mick Whelan insisted the new government had not rolled over and given into all his demands. “If it was everything I wanted it wouldn't have been this deal it would have been a higher deal, more representative of the higher cost of inflation," he told the BBC. A breakthrough would herald the end of industrial action which has spanned more than two years and saw drivers stage 18 strikes and take part in several overtime bans, leading to cancelled services. Under the new Labour government, senior officials began direct pay talks with Aslef bosses last month. Industrial action has continued since Aslef last rejected a pay offer back in April 2023. More recently the union’s tactic has been to spread walk-outs over several days, with different operators affected on each day. The package included successive pay rises of 4%, which the Rail Delivery Group, which represents train companies, said would bring the average annual pay for a driver to £65,000. However, a significant point of contention, was the conditions attached. Train companies and the Conservative government argued that changes to ways of working, for example to training and rosters, were necessary to make the railway function more reliably and save money. They claimed hard-pressed taxpayers are having to contribute millions each week to keep services running. However, Aslef argued drivers were being asked to sacrifice too much in exchange for too low a wage rise. The dispute was at a standstill for a year, before signs of progress in May. But the general election was called before there could be a resolution. Under the previous government, negotiations were conducted by the Rail Delivery Group, but ministers have had to approve any pay offer though, as the government in effect took control of the railway during the Covid pandemic. When the Labour government was elected in July, transport secretary Louise Haigh said she was "committed to resetting industrial relations". The Rail Delivery Group has since been removed from negotiations, with Department for Transport officials leading talks instead in July. The Aslef union says it has more than 21,000 members and represents 96% of all the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales, where it is organised. In a separate dispute, train drivers working for publicly-run Scotrail are currently being balloted for strike action over pay. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 14, 2024, 21:34:27 Out of interest, what exactly were drivers being asked to sacrifice under the previous proposal?
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on August 15, 2024, 05:14:54 And from The BBC - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cr402kn0g1zo on newspapers
Quote A number of Thursday's front pages lead with the breakthrough in the long-running train driver pay dispute. The Daily Mail writes that the offer of a 15% pay increase, over three years, could end "crippling" industrial action. The pay rise, that will see the average train driver salary for a four-day-week increase from £60,000 to £69,000, will cost the Treasury an estimated £100 million, fuelling concerns that ticket prices could now rise higher than they otherwise would have as a result, the paper writes. There are corollay questions - who's gonna pay for it, will it attract enough staff so that we're not constantly short of train crew ( ;D ), will it help rebalance staff availability (3 x cancellations at weekends compared to weekdays locally), will it result in service reduction to get seat (over)occupancy up to balance the books better, and will other vital (rail) workers go for similar action to get the same level of deal? I am sure that these issues will have been thought through - so I am not quite as concerned as my listing them may suggest. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 15, 2024, 05:55:38 Out of interest, what exactly were drivers being asked to sacrifice under the previous proposal? Conditions, a lot of which which vague and as such could be wide open to interpretation The contractual commitment to working Sundays, which would be enforced overtime but wouldn’t be paid at overtime rate. You can’t currently book leave for Sundays so there’s no way you could get out of working. That causes issues with annual leave which runs Monday to Saturday They wanted the ability to move drivers between depots. That could mean a Swansea driver being told they need to make their own way to Paddington, in their own car, own time, at their own time to cover a job. The required hours between shifts starts when you book off. So in the instance with the Swansea driver, booking off at Paddington the 12 hour clock starts but they still have a 4 hour drive home. 8 hours rest by the the time they get home with the possibility of driving to another depot again for the next shift. Annual leave. They wanted the ability to cancel booked annual leave days before a driver was due to take their leave if they were short staffed. The same with rostered days off, you could be forced to work our rest day. That removes the individuals ability to have a holiday or book tickets for events, family days out etc. Again, this may not have happened but then, there’s nothing to say it couldn’t. Once you agree to a vague set of demands which are open to interpretation it could become very difficult to actually nail down the finer details. Training. Cut all that back to help cover shortages. A drivers thorough knowledge of their routes is what keeps everyone safe. From memory alone, a driver will know every inch of a route. The name of every foot crossing, road crossing, farm crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, junction on their route. Every speed change, junction speed, the location of every signal, the routes you can and can not take from a signal to the point a route could be driven blind, and we do drive blind in thick fog and at night, and we do that by noise and movement of the train. They’ll know every station, the braking point for the each station, shunt moves, low adhesion zones. Add to that they’ll know, again from memory, the ins and outs of all traction they drive. That’s the air system, suspension, braking, transmission, engine, electrical. Then there’s all the rules and procedures surrounding degraded working when it comes to faults and failures with traction and infrastructure. You attempt to shorten the training and you would certain elements above. None of us wants someone like that driving a train at 125mph behind us. On a bad, all of the above comes heavily into play, if you’re missing those elements that’s when serious incidents happen. That’s why you don’t mess with training that’s proven to work The majority think yesterday’s offer is great, mainly because it’s got no strings attached and it brings an end to the uncertainty of industrial action. There will be a minority who will say this is still well below the rate of inflation and should be rejected. To have kept inline with inflation, you’d have needed a rise of around 25%. The majority knows this was never going to happen! Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 15, 2024, 05:59:45 Quote A number of Thursday's front pages lead with the breakthrough in the long-running train driver pay dispute. The Daily Mail writes that the offer of a 15% pay increase, over three years, could end "crippling" industrial action. The pay rise, that will see the average train driver salary for a four-day-week increase from £60,000 to £69,000, will cost the Treasury an estimated £100 million, fuelling concerns that ticket prices could now rise higher than they otherwise would have as a result, the paper writes. There are corollay questions - who's gonna pay for it, will it attract enough staff so that we're not constantly short of train crew ( ;D ), will it help rebalance staff availability (3 x cancellations at weekends compared to weekdays locally), will it result in service reduction to get seat (over)occupancy up to balance the books better, and will other vital (rail) workers go for similar action to get the same level of deal? I am sure that these issues will have been thought through - so I am not quite as concerned as my listing them may suggest. The large amount of back pay owed MAY result in fewer drivers working rest days & Sundays. Plus a lot of drivers “senior” drivers will now be considering retirement. The pay rises obviously make a significant difference to a final salary pension. Edited to clarify quoting - Grahame Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 15, 2024, 07:37:57 Out of interest, what exactly were drivers being asked to sacrifice under the previous proposal? Conditions, a lot of which which vague and as such could be wide open to interpretation The contractual commitment to working Sundays, which would be enforced overtime but wouldn’t be paid at overtime rate. You can’t currently book leave for Sundays so there’s no way you could get out of working. That causes issues with annual leave which runs Monday to Saturday They wanted the ability to move drivers between depots. That could mean a Swansea driver being told they need to make their own way to Paddington, in their own car, own time, at their own time to cover a job. The required hours between shifts starts when you book off. So in the instance with the Swansea driver, booking off at Paddington the 12 hour clock starts but they still have a 4 hour drive home. 8 hours rest by the the time they get home with the possibility of driving to another depot again for the next shift. Annual leave. They wanted the ability to cancel booked annual leave days before a driver was due to take their leave if they were short staffed. The same with rostered days off, you could be forced to work our rest day. That removes the individuals ability to have a holiday or book tickets for events, family days out etc. Again, this may not have happened but then, there’s nothing to say it couldn’t. Once you agree to a vague set of demands which are open to interpretation it could become very difficult to actually nail down the finer details. Training. Cut all that back to help cover shortages. A drivers thorough knowledge of their routes is what keeps everyone safe. From memory alone, a driver will know every inch of a route. The name of every foot crossing, road crossing, farm crossing, bridge, viaduct, tunnel, junction on their route. Every speed change, junction speed, the location of every signal, the routes you can and can not take from a signal to the point a route could be driven blind, and we do drive blind in thick fog and at night, and we do that by noise and movement of the train. They’ll know every station, the braking point for the each station, shunt moves, low adhesion zones. Add to that they’ll know, again from memory, the ins and outs of all traction they drive. That’s the air system, suspension, braking, transmission, engine, electrical. Then there’s all the rules and procedures surrounding degraded working when it comes to faults and failures with traction and infrastructure. You attempt to shorten the training and you would certain elements above. None of us wants someone like that driving a train at 125mph behind us. On a bad, all of the above comes heavily into play, if you’re missing those elements that’s when serious incidents happen. That’s why you don’t mess with training that’s proven to work The majority think yesterday’s offer is great, mainly because it’s got no strings attached and it brings an end to the uncertainty of industrial action. There will be a minority who will say this is still well below the rate of inflation and should be rejected. To have kept inline with inflation, you’d have needed a rise of around 25%. The majority knows this was never going to happen! Thankyou for that detailed reply - certainly seems like a good outcome for train drivers. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 15, 2024, 10:08:58 It’s a decent deal in line with average wage growth in other sectors over the past few years.
Well done to Labour for getting it sorted so quickly and highlighting the totally inept approach from the Tories. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 15, 2024, 15:21:19 It’s a decent deal in line with average wage growth in other sectors over the past few years. Well done to Labour for getting it sorted so quickly and highlighting the totally inept approach from the Tories. I think as with most of these scenarios, reality is somewhat more nuanced and sits somewhere between the two.......there's little doubt the previous Government's approach was intransigent and was not going to succeed in resolving the dispute but given the relatively minor impact of the action the Unions took, and its low profile, they probably felt they could get away with it dragging on. Labour have now effectively caved in and handed over the money for nothing in return.....easy to get it sorted if you're prepared to do that......they have little leverage now in terms of getting through the reforms and changes to working practices that are desperately needed, and the Unions have no need to consider them...... at least not until someone is brave enough to raise the subject again! So, no more sporadic strikes/overtime bans/work to rules for the time being, which is something to be grateful for, but many of those systemic problems will persist. I wonder if an approach somewhere between that which the two Governments have taken may have laid the foundations for a better future? As it is, a well paid group of individuals are now getting paid more, and need do nothing different in return. Good luck to them. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: bobm on August 15, 2024, 16:31:05 Having heard from senior members of GWR today, the general feeling is while there will be greater goodwill from drivers going forward the situation at weekends is unlikely to improve in the short term. The combination of summer weather and sizeable back pay will reduce the desire from many to work overtime for a while.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 15, 2024, 17:12:39 It’s a decent deal in line with average wage growth in other sectors over the past few years. Well done to Labour for getting it sorted so quickly and highlighting the totally inept approach from the Tories. I think as with most of these scenarios, reality is somewhat more nuanced and sits somewhere between the two.......there's little doubt the previous Government's approach was intransigent and was not going to succeed in resolving the dispute but given the relatively minor impact of the action the Unions took, and its low profile, they probably felt they could get away with it dragging on. Labour have now effectively caved in and handed over the money for nothing in return.....easy to get it sorted if you're prepared to do that......they have little leverage now in terms of getting through the reforms and changes to working practices that are desperately needed, and the Unions have no need to consider them...... at least not until someone is brave enough to raise the subject again! So, no more sporadic strikes/overtime bans/work to rules for the time being, which is something to be grateful for, but many of those systemic problems will persist. I wonder if an approach somewhere between that which the two Governments have taken may have laid the foundations for a better future? As it is, a well paid group of individuals are now getting paid more, and need do nothing different in return. Good luck to them. Estimated cost of resolving the dispute for the treasury: £100m Estimated cost of the ‘the relatively minor impact of the action’ to the nation: £1bn Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on August 15, 2024, 17:47:00 They have little leverage now in terms of getting through the reforms and changes to working practices that are desperately needed, and the Unions have no need to consider them...... at least not until someone is brave enough to raise the subject again! It’ll no doubt be raised again at the 2025 pay claim….. which becomes the responsibility for the individual TOCs to settle. What reforms & working practices need desperately changing? Quote As it is, a well paid group of individuals are now getting paid more, and need do nothing different in return. Good luck to them. A rough calculation of my basic monthly finances shows I’m still worse off than just before pre-Covid. I may be getting paid more, but I’m definitely not better off. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 16, 2024, 08:22:20 This amused me. MSN appears to be setting new standards for press hyperbole. Domestos springs to mind as it’s 99.9% b***ocks!
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/careersandeducation/train-drivers-pay-deal-fails-to-reform-industry-s-outdated-spanish-practices/ar-AA1oS1DT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f758e70efdd94de5a08d2eeb80cebdf1&ei=12 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: bobm on August 16, 2024, 14:41:03 https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg49v5k771o (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg49v5k771o)
Quote Rail workers expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to end their strike action, the boss of the RMT union has said. Mick Lynch told the Times, external he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer" to that offered to drivers' union Aslef on Wednesday. That agreement, which could end more than two years of walkouts, saw drivers offered a three-year pay deal, including a 4.5% rise this year. continues in link Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 16, 2024, 15:35:45 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round?
This amused me. MSN appears to be setting new standards for press hyperbole. Domestos springs to mind as it’s 99.9% b***ocks! https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/careersandeducation/train-drivers-pay-deal-fails-to-reform-industry-s-outdated-spanish-practices/ar-AA1oS1DT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f758e70efdd94de5a08d2eeb80cebdf1&ei=12 If you look carefully, that's been pulled from The Torygraph... Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 16, 2024, 16:31:27 This amused me. MSN appears to be setting new standards for press hyperbole. Domestos springs to mind as it’s 99.9% b***ocks! https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/careersandeducation/train-drivers-pay-deal-fails-to-reform-industry-s-outdated-spanish-practices/ar-AA1oS1DT?ocid=mailsignout&pc=U591&cvid=f758e70efdd94de5a08d2eeb80cebdf1&ei=12 I wonder if someone could clarify something for me - what is the position if my manager says hello to me whilst I am having my lunch break, and then asks me to walk to another room to change a socket in order to plug in the microwave oven? Can I have a week off? :D Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 16, 2024, 18:18:34 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round? Yes I think so. And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 16, 2024, 18:33:16 Not quite, it seems - Mick L is saying (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvg49v5k771o) he now wants parity with ASLEF....
Quote Rail workers expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to end their strike action, the boss of the RMT union has said. Mick Lynch told the Times, external he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer" to that offered to drivers' union Aslef on Wednesday. That agreement, which could end more than two years of walkouts, saw drivers offered a three-year pay deal, including a 4.5% rise this year. The new Labour government also dropped attempts by the previous Tory administration to change drivers' working practices. Despite the pay deal, Aslef announced on Friday that drivers at London North Eastern Railway (LNER), a nationalised firm, would strike every weekend in September and October, and two in November in a dispute with management. Nigel Roebuck, who has led Aslef's negotiations with LNER, said members had complained about being consistently "badgered for favours" by managers "outside of rostering agreements and being contacted remotely". Conservative shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said the Aslef strike was "a taste of what is to come: a nationalised train service seeing Labour-backing unions staging walkouts despite a bumper pay deal". The Conservatives have accused Labour of losing control of public sector pay and of "being played by its union paymasters", and claimed all trade unions would now demand "double-digit rises". Shadow Commons leader Chris Philp said pay rises awarded by Labour, including a 22% increase for junior doctors over two years, would lead to tax rises at the Budget in October. Labour Cabinet Office minister Nick Thomas-Symonds defended the government's approach, saying it was "sticking to the promises we made in opposition" that "we would sit down and find solutions". He also told Times Radio it was wrong to suggest there would be no reform of the railways alongside the Aslef pay offer, adding: "We are absolutely looking to deliver a better service for passengers." The RMT has confirmed it will enter pay talks next week with the Department for Transport, which will negotiate on behalf of the train operating companies. It will also have talks with Network Rail. Under the terms of a deal brokered last November, RMT members, such as train guards, were offered a backdated 5% rise for 2022/23, the same as that offered to Aslef members under their three-year deal. The RMT deal said a 2023/24 pay offer would depend on formal negotiations with individual train companies on working conditions. It is understood the agreement included a commitment to negotiate reforms at a local level for an expected 4% rise this year. That amount would be below the 4.75% offered to Aslef drivers for that year as part of the deal to settle their dispute. Drivers have also been offered 4.5% for this year, which would take the average driver salary to around £68,000. Mr Lynch told the Times: "All the indications are that we will be offered the same terms as Aslef. And we are expecting that it will be delivered." He added there could be "problems" if this was not the case. The government has not yet said how the Aslef deal will be paid for. A senior rail industry source said the taxpayer is likely to have to contribute towards funding it, as it may exceed what train companies had set aside in their budgets. The government in effect took control of the railways during the Covid pandemic, with most train companies in England moving on to contracts where they get a fixed fee to run services, and the taxpayer carries the financial risk. A number of major operators, including TransPennine Express, have also been taken under public control in recent years. Labour, which took over pay negotiations from the companies after returning to power at last month's election, has argued the settlements are justified by an estimated £1bn cost to the economy of strike action. The previous government claimed it was merely a facilitator of talks between the unions and train companies, although in reality it was the main player in the talks because of the financial situation. However the deal with Aslef, described as "no strings" by the Labour-affiliated union, has also raised questions over the fate of changes to working conditions pursued by the previous Conservative government. The terms of November's RMT deal saw discussions over changes to working practices, such as rotas and weekend working, pushed back into this year. Labour, which wants to fully renationalise nearly all remaining privatised passenger rail services over the next five years, has said it wants to put in place a "workforce strategy" for companies taken over by the government. Meanwhile, ASLEF has called LNER drivers out on weekend strikes this autumn!! From BBC again (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj9le7vdw91o) Quote Train drivers at London North Eastern Railway (LNER) are set to strike every weekend in September, October and two in November, union bosses have announced. Aslef, which represents train drivers, said the walkouts at LNER were due to a breakdown in industrial relations and agreements. The fresh strikes are separate to an ongoing pay dispute with all train companies, which edged closer to being resolved in England this week after a new pay offer. Separately, Border Force officers at Heathrow Airport have announced more industrial action in a row over changes to terms and conditions. The Public and Commercial Services union said 650 Border Force officers will strike from 31 August to 3 September, before they begin a period of working-to-rule and refusing to work overtime until 22 September. The union said officers were being told to "choose between caring responsibilities and their job" due to what it called "inflexible rosters". LNER 'surprised' by action Aslef said its member drivers at LNER would walk out every Saturday between 31 August and 9 November and on every Sunday from 1 September to 10 November. LNER, which operates services on the East Coast Mainline between London and Edinburgh and is run by the government, said it was "surprised and disappointed" by the announcement following recent talks. Its trains run to and from London King's Cross station and pass through major cities including Newcastle, York and Durham. Various railway strikes have led to cancelled services and disruption for passengers for more than two years. The fresh walkouts, which total 22 days, are separate to the long-running row over train driver wages at 16 train companies, which looks set to be resolved in England following a new pay offer made this week. Mick Whelan, general secretary of Aslef, claimed the union had been "forced" into taking strike action at LNER. He accused the train operator of "repeatedly" breaking agreements, acting in "bad faith", and of "boorish behaviour and bullying tactics". LNER said it would continue to work with the union to "find a way to end this long running dispute which only damages the rail industry". "Our priority focus will be on minimising disruption to customers during the forthcoming Aslef strikes, which sadly will continue to cause disruption and delays," a statement added. A spokesperson said the company took "any accusations of bullying very seriously, and this is not something tolerated anywhere in the business". The Department for Transport said the strikes were "extremely disappointing for passengers", adding that transport secretary Louise Haigh had called on both Aslef and LNER to "round the table and work in good faith to resolve this dispute and as quickly as possible". But Conservative shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said following the new pay deal offered, "it should shock nobody that more strikes are on the cards". "All Labour are doing is encouraging the unions into more of this anti-passenger action, putting our rail network at the beck and call of unions, whilst passengers pay the price," he added. 'Not enough drivers' Nigel Roebuck, who has led Aslef's negotiations with LNER, said members had complained about being consistently "badgered for favours" by managers "outside of rostering agreements and being contacted remotely". "The bottom line is that LNER does not employ enough drivers to deliver the services it has promised passengers, and the government, it will run," he suggested. The Aslef union says it has more than 21,000 members and represents 96% of all the train drivers in England, Scotland, and Wales, where it is organised. Its leadership team has recommended members accept the newly-tabled offer for train drivers in England, which includes a backdated 5% pay increase for 2019 to 2022, 4.75% for 2022 to 2024, and 4.5% for 2024 to 2025. Shadow transport minister Kieran Mullan said: "After a no-strings-attached offer to throw cash at a labour-backing union, it should shock nobody that more strikes are on the cards. "It's a taste of what is to come, a nationalised train service seeing Labour backing unions staging walkouts despite a bumper pay deal. In another separate dispute, those working for publicly-run Scotrail are currently being balloted for strike action over pay. On Friday, it emerged that the RMT union, which had resolved its pay offer with the previous Conservative government, would expect the same terms as those offered to train drivers to be put forward to rail workers, such as guards and signalling staff. Mick Lynch told the Times that he expected a "parallel, synchronised offer", adding there could be “problems” if this is not the case. The RMT has confirmed it will enter pay talks next week with the Department for Transport, which will negotiate on behalf of the train operating companies and Network Rail. And Scotrail staff are balloting.... (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1dvr541jgo) What was that about not having to update the subject line again with 2025? ::) ??? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 16, 2024, 18:53:40 (https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVGJ3vUW8AAiaml?format=jpg&name=small)
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 16, 2024, 19:35:51 Another begins.....
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cj9le7vdw91o Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 16, 2024, 19:39:47 See the strike thread already in existence
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 16, 2024, 19:59:07 Thanks, ChrisB: topics now merged. ;)
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2024, 07:21:06 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round? Yes I think so. And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement? More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached? "They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness! (However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 17, 2024, 08:34:31 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round? Yes I think so. And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement? More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached? "They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness! My reasonableness test was based on average wage growth in the UK being 5.7% for 2024, so 4.5% sounds reasonable to me. https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/ However, deals always lag behind inflation, so you would expect that average figure to drop off quite quickly going into 2025, so now is the time to push your case. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 17, 2024, 08:39:22 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round? Yes I think so. And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement? More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached? "They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness! My reasonableness test was based on average wage growth in the UK being 5.7% for 2024, so 4.5% sounds reasonable to me. https://www.statista.com/statistics/933075/wage-growth-in-the-uk/ However, deals always lag behind inflation, so you would expect that average figure to drop off quite quickly going into 2025, so now is the time to push your case. Perfectly reasonable for a Union to push its case. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Bob_Blakey on August 17, 2024, 10:54:30 SWTSMBO and I are booked to travel with LNER from WKF to KGX on Sunday 20th October so one hopes that this dispute can be resolved before then.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ellendune on August 17, 2024, 12:01:21 (However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!) It seems to me that the attitude of the last government to treat publicly funded workers, whether they were doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers or train drivers was tpo treat them as slaves rather than employees, with the slave master having absolute power over them. This led to the attitude that they should be grateful for the little scraps that they were given. Unions, they regarded (somewhat like some of them regarded anything with the word European in its title) as inherently evil and to be resisted and to be sidelined if at all possible and if negotiations were tolerated they should be at arms length and negotiators given no leeway to negotiate. This is the absolute antithesis of the principles espoused by James Timpson (now prisons minster). This slavery view is rather at odds with the the free market idea. The market dictates that if the terms are too bad people leave and that is at least partly why there are shortages of doctors and nurses in the health service though I am not sure whether it relates to rail staff. This is the sort of attitude that was prevalent in the 19th century not the 21st. I recall that following some accident in 19th century (Mexborough?) the driver and fireman were immediate arrested on a charge of manslaughter. The newly formed ASLEF hired a top barrister who fought their case and they were found not guilty and the company rightly blamed. This probably informs the culture of the organisation even now. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: trainbuff on August 17, 2024, 22:15:05 I thought that the RMT had settled up until the current pay round? Yes I think so. And will now presumably be asking for a not unreasonable 4.5% for the next settlement? More than double the rate of inflation, funded by the taxpayer with no strings attached? "They've had it, so we want it too" is not necessarily a good test of reasonableness! Settled for 2022-2023 at 5%, half inflation. 4.75% for last year was less than inflation and 4.5% this year is double this years inflation but remember no pay rise at all in 2020 or 2021. Set against this it seems a reasonable ask. Especially as big bankers have had a £4.25 bn reduction in tax! (However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!) Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Electric train on August 18, 2024, 10:46:41 (However it is likely to be a familiar refrain now that a new Labour Government has opened its chequebook......twas ever thus!) It seems to me that the attitude of the last government to treat publicly funded workers, whether they were doctors, nurses, teachers, care workers or train drivers was tpo treat them as slaves rather than employees, with the slave master having absolute power over them. This led to the attitude that they should be grateful for the little scraps that they were given. Unions, they regarded (somewhat like some of them regarded anything with the word European in its title) as inherently evil and to be resisted and to be sidelined if at all possible and if negotiations were tolerated they should be at arms length and negotiators given no leeway to negotiate. This is the absolute antithesis of the principles espoused by James Timpson (now prisons minster). This slavery view is rather at odds with the the free market idea. The market dictates that if the terms are too bad people leave and that is at least partly why there are shortages of doctors and nurses in the health service though I am not sure whether it relates to rail staff. This is the sort of attitude that was prevalent in the 19th century not the 21st. I recall that following some accident in 19th century (Mexborough?) the driver and fireman were immediate arrested on a charge of manslaughter. The newly formed ASLEF hired a top barrister who fought their case and they were found not guilty and the company rightly blamed. This probably informs the culture of the organisation even now. There is a lot of pent up frustration in the public sector on how we were treated by the last Government, Granted most in the public sector were not furloughed but we were expected to work through the pandemic lockdowns for most there was not the work from home option. Then when things returned to some semblance of normal the Governments expenditure on the furlough screams and the running of a normal full train service timetable all of a sudden was the public sector workers fault, so no pay rise. Oh and while the public sector were working at risk, contracting covid while at work and dieing .......... and the Government were having parties The UK public sectors Teachers and schools, Railways, NHS, Defence, Police, Courts, local Authorities .... etc have been drastically underfunded (in real terms) for over a decade to fund what ..........the promise of tax cuts Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 19, 2024, 10:42:23 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cm2nz4zlgr4o):
Quote Laws on union strike threshold set to be scrapped Laws stipulating what proportion of union members have to vote for strike action in order for it to be legal are set to be scrapped. It is understood that the government intends to go ahead with its pledge to repeal the Trade Union Act as part of its wider shake-up of workers' rights. There are reports the bill will be tabled by mid-October. Senior Tories have been critical of Prime Minister Sir Keir Starmer over recent pay offers to train drivers and junior doctors, accusing him of being beholden to the unions. ... Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2024, 12:50:21 A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman:
Quote “Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those onboard and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect. “Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members. I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on August 20, 2024, 14:05:43 A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes Yep - made the Independent too .. From The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/tory-rail-minister-reform-train-strikes-b2598145.html) Quote Former Tory rail minister admits failure on reform – and praises train staff and unions Huw Merriman: ‘These people work hard and should be shown more respect’ Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 20, 2024, 17:56:53 A rather surprising article with quotes from former rail minister, Huw Merriman: Quote “Whilst it’s legitimate to debate the terms of the deal, the demonisation of train drivers and those onboard and at stations, who carry out a difficult and skilled job for the safety of passengers, is completely unfair. These people work hard and should be shown more respect. “Despite reports, I had a good working relationship with the rail union leaders and recognised their role representing members. I hope, by sticking my head up and accepting my part, others can show our rail workforce the respect and recognition they deserve and focus on the future.” https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/19/huw-merriman-conservative-uk-rail-minister-unions-strikes Good for him. I don't find it overly surprising. It's perfectly possible, mature and shows integrity and decency to have a good working relationship and mutual respect between those who may profoundly disagree. Those are the sorts of qualities we should value in our politicians over and above any ideological considerations. Hopefully the Bruvvers Mick will publicly reciprocate and show that they have the same qualities. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2024, 19:58:05 I think they might be a bit baffled about a good working relationship in which he hid behind the RDG and didn’t meet with ASLEF for 16 months.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 20, 2024, 20:07:48 Train guards say they want bumper pay rises like drivers
From The Mail, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-guards-say-they-want-bumper-pay-rises-like-drivers/ar-AA1p4K6I?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6334e48768184f6989f4890b277a978b&ei=58) Quote Rail union barons will today demand inflation-busting pay hikes for guards after train drivers got a bumper rise. The Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union will hold talks with the Government today and is expected to demand at least a 4 per cent increase for this year as well as a backdated 5 per cent rise for last year. This comes after drivers got a 14.25 per cent increase over three years with no strings attached. The militant RMT will then hold talks with state-owned Network Rail on Thursday about similar rises for signallers and track maintenance staff. Union negotiators were said to be 'hopeful' a deal could be struck last night as the new Labour Government appears to be more receptive to their demands. RMT boss Mick Lynch has warned that his members will expect a similar pay offer to that received by Aslef, which represents train drivers. Mr Lynch said last week: 'All things being equal, we are expecting a parallel, synchronised offer to that of Aslef.' Transport Secretary Louise Haigh has previously backed RMT strikes. When Labour was in Opposition in 2018, she posted an image of herself on X, formerly Twitter, taking part in a hustings with RMT officials. Alongside the image, she posted: 'On Thursday I spoke in support of RMT workers who are striking to keep guards on our trains. 'These guards play a vital role in keeping passengers safe.' The post related to a long-running row about switching to driver-only operated (DOO) trains, where drivers open and close the doors rather than guards. The RMT has long opposed the moves. The RMT donated £72,000 to 18 Labour candidates, including Deputy Prime Minister Angela Rayner, in the run-up to last month's general election. As well as the bumper settlement for train drivers – which they still have to vote to accept – the new Government has signed off a 5.5 per cent pay increase for most other public sector workers, estimated to cost taxpayers £9.4billion. Meanwhile, it has offered junior doctors 22 per cent. GPs are also now demanding an 11 per cent increase in their funding – up from the 7.4 per cent offered by the Government. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 21, 2024, 15:38:29 From The Mail, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/striking-rail-workers-demand-38-days-holiday-on-top-of-pay-rise/ar-AA1pahgu?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=64513817b9f1412bac58577a6bef2fe0&ei=69)
Quote Striking rail workers demand 38 days' holiday on TOP of pay rise Striking rail workers are demanding 38 days' holiday and 35-hour weeks after getting a pay rise approved. Commuters have been constantly plagued by delays, cancellations and rail-replacement buses for the last two years. Rail workers walked out over wages, planned changes to working practices and the threat of redundancies, leaving Britain's public transport in chaos. Labour, under new Prime Minister Keir Starmer, pledged to renationalise passenger rail services and 'reset' industrial relations during the General Election. And last week, ministers signed off 14 per cent pay rise over three years in a hope to end the disruption. The news came as a relief to travellers who have suffered repeated misery as a result of Aslef's 18 strikes over two years – the longest rail dispute in recent history. But now The Transport Salaried Staffs' Association (TSSA) - which represents train service controllers, ticket officers and gate line personnel - has also asked Great Western Railway to increase their holiday entitlement to 38 days per year including bank holidays. The letter sent to TSSA members last week read: 'I have ensured that the team that is likely to meet with DfT (Department for Transport) are briefed and aware of your aspirations in advance of any such meeting between TSSA and the DfT,' The Telegraph reported. The majority of workers who work a five-day week receive at least 28 days' paid annual leave a year - which includes eight public holidays in England and Wales. The GWR holiday demand wasn't included in Tuesday's pay negotiations, which were described as 'productive'. Transport Secretary Louise Haigh announced the above inflation increase which will see the average driver's salary rise from £60,000 to just below £70,000. It is the latest move in a bid to end the strikes and satisfy the unions after junior doctors were offered a 22 per cent increase over two years to end NHS strikes last month. Labour has been accused of prioritising their union paymasters over rail passengers, pensioners and taxpayers after announcing a series of pay deals for public sector workers since coming to power in early July. Rachel Reeves, the Chancellor, also signed off on an above-inflation salary increase of 5.5 per cent for millions of public sector staff - at a cost of nearly £10billion. She argued that further strikes would cost the economy more in the long run, but it sparked fears of increased taxes in her first Budget to cover the cost. At the same time, Labour is axing winter fuel payments for millions of retirees as the Chancellor looks to fill a £22billion 'black hole' in the public finances. Under the new Government's offer to end the two-year rail strikes, train drivers will keep the bizarre perks that the previous Tory government wanted to ditch. Ministers said on Wednesday that they had struck a deal with union chiefs which would see the average driver's salary soar by 14.25 per cent. The pay rise, which is pensionable, could cost as much as £100million. It is more generous than the previous government's offer of eight per cent over two years. This also included conditions around reforming antiquated and costly working rules, dubbed 'Spanish practices', that the Tory administration wanted, and which would have reduced the cost of running the railways. Drivers can choose whether they work on Sundays and get an overtime rate if they do. Menial tasks such as changing a plug socket can take nine workers because of resistance to multi-skilling staff. Different teams can't cross boundary lines to help sort a fault. These dictate that staff must be given extra time on breaks to cover the process of strolling to and from their mess room and a train. For example, at Birmingham New Street station a worker's half-hour tea break actually lasts 40 minutes, with five minutes for the journey there and back. While the offer came as a relief to passengers plagued by strikes, Labour was accused of surrendering to its union 'paymasters' because it comes with no strings attached. The previous Tory administration insisted reforms, such as compulsory Sunday working, had to be part of any agreement. But the offer is even more generous than first thought, as it also covers drivers who have left their jobs in the last two years. This is because the 14 per cent salary hike covers three years, backdating to April 2022. But despite the bumper pay deal, hundreds of members of the Aslef union working for London North Eastern Railway (LNER) will walk out for a total of 22 days, including every Saturday between August 31 and November 9 and every Sunday from September 1 to November 10. Aslef insisted the dispute at LNER – which runs trains on the East Coast main line between London and Edinburgh - is separate from the long-running row over pay, which is set to be resolved after a new offer this week from the Government. But shadow home secretary James Cleverly mocked the Labour government for being 'played by its union paymasters', adding that the 'latest wave of strikes will be devastating for families who rely on train travel to see their loved ones'. A DfT spokesman said: 'Fixing our railways is at the heart of our plan to kick-start economic growth and ending the adversarial approach to industrial relations is the first step to delivering that. 'Today, officials resumed talks and held constructive discussions with RMT, Unite and TSSA to reset the relationship with unions for the benefit of passengers and the taxpayer. Further conversations will be held in the coming weeks.' Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 26, 2024, 21:17:05 Train driver strikes on hold after new ScotRail pay offer
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/czjy04dwlkeo) Quote Threatened strike action by ScotRail staff has been put on hold after a new pay offer. The train drivers' union Aslef has announced its ballot for industrial action has been withdrawn and members have been asked to vote on the offer. It follows "constructive" talks between the company and unions in recent weeks. An emergency timetable with a reduced number of services will continue in the meantime. The publicly-owned firm was embroiled in a long-running dispute with unions in the summer of 2022 which saw overtime bans and full strikes across the network in Scotland. Details of the new pay offer have not been made public but it is understood all staff would get a 4.5% rise, backdated to April. ScotRail's service delivery director Mark Ilderton said they were "pleased that we’ve been able to reach this position". “The talks with trade union colleagues have been very constructive and it is a fantastic step forward with ASLEF withdrawing the ballot for industrial action and moving forward with a member referendum on the pay offer,” he said. He encouraged colleagues to support the offer. “We recognise the hard work of our colleagues, and the cost-of-living challenges faced by families across the country and believe that the pay offer reflects this, as well as providing value for money for the public finances,” he added. ScotRail has been operating a reduced service since July, when a number of drivers stopped working extra Sunday shifts and overtime in the pay dispute, About 600 services were cut under the provisional measures, leaving 1,660 trains operating between Mondays and Saturdays. Peak-time services in the morning and late afternoon were halved from four trains per hour to two, external. Caledonian Sleeper services would also have been impacted by strike action. ASLEF, RMT and TSSA have been approached for comment Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 29, 2024, 20:50:12 LNER strike called off....
https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/lner-train-drivers-call-off-strikes-union-negotiations/?s=09 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 29, 2024, 21:10:39 Warning issued that a full timetable may not be possible as rosters can't be updated in time.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 29, 2024, 21:23:12 Eh? Since 2022? :o
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on August 30, 2024, 13:51:06 TG keeps finding the wrong thread lately.
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 30, 2024, 13:58:00 Thanks, ChrisB. I'll move these recent posts to the '2024' topic. :)
Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: grahame on August 31, 2024, 06:56:07 LNER strike called off.... https://www.lbc.co.uk/news/lner-train-drivers-call-off-strikes-union-negotiations/?s=09 And from The Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13798413/Sir-Keir-Starmer-heated-exchange-Labour-Transport-Secretary-amid-concerns-failing-grip-rail-strikes.html) ... Quote Revealed: Sir Keir Starmer had heated exchange with Labour Transport Secretary amid concerns she was 'failing to get a grip' on rail strikes The Prime Minister gave his Transport Secretary a dressing down after being left red-faced by rail union barons. Sir Keir Starmer hauled Louise Haigh into Downing Street to demand answers after train drivers announced 22 days’ worth of strikes just 48 hours after being handed a 14.25 per cent pay hike by his Government on August 14. [etc] Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ellendune on August 31, 2024, 09:15:32 And from The Mail (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-13798413/Sir-Keir-Starmer-heated-exchange-Labour-Transport-Secretary-amid-concerns-failing-grip-rail-strikes.html) ... If the only source is from the Daily Mail then I have no confidence that it actually happened. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2024, 17:37:13 ............food for thought?..........
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/unions-will-never-be-satisfied-aslef-boss-warns-just-weeks-after-receiving-massive-pay-deal/ar-AA1qfS8w?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b13ba60be7564bf98ee55af9531dd9da&ei=40 Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: PhilWakely on September 09, 2024, 18:46:47 ............food for thought?.......... https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/unions-will-never-be-satisfied-aslef-boss-warns-just-weeks-after-receiving-massive-pay-deal/ar-AA1qfS8w?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b13ba60be7564bf98ee55af9531dd9da&ei=40 hmm. GB News - pretty much on the same level as the Daily Mail Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 09, 2024, 19:04:40 ............food for thought?.......... https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/unions-will-never-be-satisfied-aslef-boss-warns-just-weeks-after-receiving-massive-pay-deal/ar-AA1qfS8w?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=b13ba60be7564bf98ee55af9531dd9da&ei=40 hmm. GB News - pretty much on the same level as the Daily Mail Expected that :) It was widely reported. I lifted it from MSN in order to enable anyone who was interested to read it without running up against a pay wall. Good to address the message rather than taking aim at the messenger? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: Trowres on September 09, 2024, 23:58:50 ... Good to address the message rather than taking aim at the messenger? Similar articles appear in the Telegraph and the Daily Mail, but neither BBC nor Guardian, so far. Right-wing media seeing an opportunity? But let's look at the message. In the absence of verbatim minutes from the TUC fringe meeting, I'm going to suggest we look carefully at the quote marks in the articles to see what Mr Whelan might have actually said, and what is outside the quotes and being suggested by the media. So from the DM: Quote Mr Whelan said: 'So I am quite... not content, 'cos I'll never be content, I'm an argumentative b*****. And the movement will never be content. 'While we have the lowest pensions in Europe and people then talking about not giving people their heating payments, I'm not content.' Where the DM has been noxious is in its linking of "not satisfied" with the recent pay deal. The article is headed: Quote 'Unions will never be satisfied,' Aslef boss warns just weeks after receiving massive pay deal Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 16, 2024, 23:50:03 A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp Deal for Junior Doctors (including a very sensible change of job title to Resident Doctor) has been accepted. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 17, 2024, 07:38:26 A pay rise of over 20% being offered to Junior Doctors: https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/breaking-junior-doctors-offered-20-33348420.amp Deal for Junior Doctors (including a very sensible change of job title to Resident Doctor) has been accepted. I can't imagine too many people will begrudge it, and it'll be good to have as many Doctors on duty as possible over the winter to deal with the additional hypothermia cases. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: infoman on September 18, 2024, 13:02:06 More good news
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0r8g244zggo Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on September 22, 2024, 16:19:39 More Bad news....
From MyLondon, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/heathrow-express-staff-to-strike-over-pay-as-london-railway-workers-reject-offer/ar-AA1qX46V?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=38a919aba9d24b02bb54f7940dfe7c46&ei=60) Quote Heathrow Express staff to strike over pay as London railway workers reject offer eathrow Express staff are set to strike for two days after rejecting a pay offer. The operator has said that the move is 'disappointing'. The RMT union says workers will walk out over 48 hours from Monday, September 23. This is 'in response to a pay offer that was overwhelmingly rejected by members'. The union added: "Despite multiple attempts to resolve the dispute, members will take action next week [...] The union remains open to further negotiations, calling on Heathrow Express management to improve their offer and avoid ongoing disruption." The RMT union's General Secretary, Mick Lynch, said: "Our members at Heathrow Express have made their position clear with a strong mandate for action. They are determined to secure fair pay and better working conditions. "Heathrow Express management must now recognise the serious concerns of the workforce and return to the table with a meaningful offer." 'We will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently' A Heathrow Express spokeswoman told the Evening Standard: “It is incredibly disappointing that the RMT is planning strikes, but our well-planned contingencies are ready to go. Schedules will continue as normal, and we will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently. “The strike… does not include our train drivers and schedules will continue as normal. There will be no disruption to Heathrow Express services as a result of this action.” It comes after train drivers have voted overwhelmingly to accept a multiyear pay offer, ending a two-year dispute at 16 rail companies. The ASLEF union said its members voted by 96 per cent in favour of a deal the union said was worth 15 per cent over three years. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 22, 2024, 16:24:46 More Bad news.... From MyLondon, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/heathrow-express-staff-to-strike-over-pay-as-london-railway-workers-reject-offer/ar-AA1qX46V?ocid=msedgntp&pc=U531&cvid=38a919aba9d24b02bb54f7940dfe7c46&ei=60) Quote Heathrow Express staff to strike over pay as London railway workers reject offer eathrow Express staff are set to strike for two days after rejecting a pay offer. The operator has said that the move is 'disappointing'. The RMT union says workers will walk out over 48 hours from Monday, September 23. This is 'in response to a pay offer that was overwhelmingly rejected by members'. The union added: "Despite multiple attempts to resolve the dispute, members will take action next week [...] The union remains open to further negotiations, calling on Heathrow Express management to improve their offer and avoid ongoing disruption." The RMT union's General Secretary, Mick Lynch, said: "Our members at Heathrow Express have made their position clear with a strong mandate for action. They are determined to secure fair pay and better working conditions. "Heathrow Express management must now recognise the serious concerns of the workforce and return to the table with a meaningful offer." 'We will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently' A Heathrow Express spokeswoman told the Evening Standard: “It is incredibly disappointing that the RMT is planning strikes, but our well-planned contingencies are ready to go. Schedules will continue as normal, and we will keep our passengers moving safely and efficiently. “The strike… does not include our train drivers and schedules will continue as normal. There will be no disruption to Heathrow Express services as a result of this action.” It comes after train drivers have voted overwhelmingly to accept a multiyear pay offer, ending a two-year dispute at 16 rail companies. The ASLEF union said its members voted by 96 per cent in favour of a deal the union said was worth 15 per cent over three years. “The strike… does not include our train drivers and schedules will continue as normal. There will be no disruption to Heathrow Express services as a result of this action.” ............which workers are going on strike? Doesn't sound as if it will have much impact? Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: a-driver on September 22, 2024, 20:21:54 ............which workers are going on strike? Doesn't sound as if it will have much impact? Ticket sales staff at Paddington and Heathrow terminals. One I think the RMT need to be very very careful over how they play it. Hex hasn’t got the market share it once enjoyed. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on September 26, 2024, 20:35:46 From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/sep/25/rmt-rail-workers-vote-to-accept-pay-deal-train-strikes?utm_term=66f50c595e7d68b7e0236469b9f9993f&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email)
Quote RMT rail workers vote to accept pay deals Ballot backs rise of 4.5% this year from train companies and from Network Rail, reducing chance of more strikes Rail workers have voted to accept pay offers by train companies and Network Rail, reducing the prospect of a repeat of the national strikes that have caused misery for passengers over the last two years. Members of the National Union of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) voted overwhelmingly to support the pay offers that will result in pay increases of more than 4%. The RMT said the ballot result meant that the long-running national dispute was now over and the outcome reflected collective efforts to defend jobs and pay conditions from the attacks of private contractors and the previous Conservative government. The RMT held more than 30 days of industrial action since June 2022 over a previous pay dispute with Network Rail and rail operators. A deal was agreed in March last year with Network Rail, while its deal with operators was concluded in November last year. The latest pay deal will lead to union members at Network Rail, who are largely maintenance staff and signallers, receiving a 4.5% increase this year. Almost 89% of those members who voted were in favour of the deal. The agreement with operators, which covers train crew and ticket office staff, will lead to a 4.75% backdated increase on last year’s pay, with a 4.5% rise for the current financial year. The ballot featured 99% of voting members voting in favour of the deal. In a statement, the RMT said: “We thank our members for their efforts during this long but successful campaign. “Their resolve has been essential in navigating the challenges posed during negotiations and in particular the previous Tory government’s refusal to negotiate in good faith, alongside relentless attacks by sections of the media and the employers. “RMT remains focused and committed to supporting public ownership as a path to building a stronger future for the rail industry for both workers and passengers.” The transport secretary, Louise Haigh, said: “This is a necessary step towards fixing our railways and getting the country moving. It will ensure a more reliable service by helping to protect passengers from national strikes, and crucially, it clears the way for vital reform and modernising working practices to ensure a better performing railway for everyone.” Last week, train drivers who are members of the Aslef union voted to back a pay deal. The decision came after drivers had taken 18 days of strike action since July 2022, resulting in a near-complete shutdown of English lines and some cross-border services, as well as a run of overtime bans that caused widespread disruption. Separately on Wednesday, train drivers in Scotland voted to accept the latest pay offer from ScotRail after weeks of reduced timetables. The Aslef union said nearly 75% of its members voted for the deal, under which it is understood all staff will get a 4.5% rise, backdated to April. The publicly owned ScotRail has been running a temporary reduced timetable since early July as fewer drivers made themselves available for overtime or rest-day working, as is their contractual right. Members of the Unite and RMT unions have also voted to accept the Scotrail offer. Title: Re: Rail unions industrial and strike action 2024 Post by: ChrisB on October 01, 2024, 20:38:06 From PA Media, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/london-underground-workers-vote-in-favour-of-possible-strike-action-over-pay/ar-AA1rx7ZQ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=6360ce1e26f84b39a17f0b2248bc0232&ei=627)
Quote London Underground workers vote in favour of possible strike action over pay London Underground workers have given a fresh mandate for strike action while pay talks continue. Members of the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT) voted by more than 9-1 in favour of taking action if necessary over the next six months. No strike dates have been announced but the union said it is keen to secure an improved offer on pay. The RMT said because of changes to pay bands, not all members would be entitled to the same percentage increase which was “wholly unacceptable”. General secretary Mick Lynch said: “Our members on London Underground are sending a clear message to management that they will not put up with substandard pay offers or any attempt to treat members unequally in any pay deal. “We are always willing to find solutions to industrial relations issues, but our members will not tolerate an imposition of any pay deal where members are not being treated equally or fairly.” A Transport for London spokesperson said: “We are disappointed that the RMT has balloted London Underground employees over pay and conditions. “We have held a number of constructive discussions with our trade unions and have presented a pay offer. We are still considering their feedback to the offer and will continue to work with the unions to ensure that we reach a fair agreement for our hardworking colleagues that is also affordable and delivers for London. “It would be in everyone’s best interest to continue to discuss this without the threat of strike action, so we can work together to support London and the wider UK economy.” This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |