Title: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on January 03, 2023, 10:22:54 RMT Press release 02/01/23 13:15
Quote RMT press release 02/01/23 13:15. RMT calls out government for "blocking" rail resolution ahead of strikes starting tomorrow 40,000 workers on Network Rail and 14 train operating companies will take action on 3,4,6 and 7 this week, shutting down most rail services across the country. Despite the union's best efforts over the Christmas period, rail employers have not arranged any formal negotiations with RMT to resolve the dispute. Both Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group are being directly blocked by government ministers from producing an acceptable proposal on job security, pay and working conditions. RMT remains available around the clock for talks so all parties can come to a negotiated settlement. The situation stands in stark contrast to other areas of the railway where the Department for Transport does not have a mandate. RMT has secured deals with Scotrail, Transport for Wales, contracts on Eurostar and areas where the railway is under the control of metro mayors. Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary, said: "The government is blocking the union's attempts to reach a negotiated settlement with the rail employers. "We have worked with the rail industry to reach successful negotiated settlements ever since privatisation in 1993. And we have achieved deals across the network in 2021 and 2022 where the DfT has no involvement. "Yet in this dispute, there is an unprecedented level of ministerial interference, which is hamstringing rail employers from being able to negotiate a package of measures with us, so we can settle this dispute. "We will continue our industrial action campaign while we work towards a negotiated resolution." END Notes: RMT has achieved deals in the following areas where DfT has not been involved: Eurostar International: 8% pay rise Eurostar - Mitie security: 10% pay rise for all staff and 29% for the lowest paid. Scotrail: 7-9% backdated to April this year Transport for Wales: Between 6.6% and 9.5% pay rise Merseyrail: 7% pay rise MTR Crossrail: 8.2% (2021-2022) Docklands Light Railway: 9.25% London Underground: 8.4% (2021) The 14 train operating companies we are in dispute with alongside Network Rail are as follows: Chiltern Railways Cross Country Trains Greater Anglia, LNER, East Midlands Railway, c2c, Great Western Railway, Northern Trains, South Eastern South Western Railway Transpennine Express, Avanti West Coast, West Midlands Trains GTR (including Gatwick Express John Millington RMT Press Officer Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2023, 11:38:18 There are meetings scheduled with the Rail Minister - for next week.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on January 03, 2023, 17:52:06 There are meetings scheduled with the Rail Minister - for next week. But the Minister will not talk about pay rise all the Minster will walk to talk about is "efficiencies" and working practices which the Union will take as worse terms & conditions and job cuts Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2023, 18:24:02 If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 03, 2023, 23:01:28 If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that. I decide to research railway staffing to add comment - but very difficult to find in history. Not sure these figures compare apples with apples: 1955 - 648,000 1961 - 474,000 2018 - 115,000 but 2018 also lists 250,000 in the "supply chain" and I don't have a clue as to how many of those might have been included in the 1955 and 1961 figures. What do the figures tell us? Well - passenger number have risen from the low point on a much smaller network, but small load freight traffic which was staff intensive has been lost. Locomotives no longer need a fireman as most did in 1955, and there are so many other changes. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on January 04, 2023, 01:48:54 and there are so many other changes. Another major one being signalling. Thousands of mechanical signal boxes in 1955. Very few left, the vast majority replaced by PSBs, IECCs and ROCs. With the ultimate aim of Network Rail to have just a dozen or so ROCs covering the whole network. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on January 04, 2023, 08:08:37 If so, then the Minister has a point, I reckon. It's high time that the union did discuss the ways in which old working practices can be modernised. If that leads to increased staffing for 7 day working within that, then great. But it's a 7 day railway, and everyone needs to recognise that. I decide to research railway staffing to add comment - but very difficult to find in history. Not sure these figures compare apples with apples: 1955 - 648,000 1961 - 474,000 2018 - 115,000 but 2018 also lists 250,000 in the "supply chain" and I don't have a clue as to how many of those might have been included in the 1955 and 1961 figures. What do the figures tell us? Well - passenger number have risen from the low point on a much smaller network, but small load freight traffic which was staff intensive has been lost. Locomotives no longer need a fireman as most did in 1955, and there are so many other changes. All the way through you could add "supply chain" work force numbers, the railways have always relied on external supplies. Since 2018 the Rail Industry formulised its supplier chain structure with effectively a licence / approved supplier, this is done in a tiered system, it gets difficult to have accurate numbers past tier 2. and there are so many other changes. Another major one being signalling. Thousands of mechanical signal boxes in 1955. Very few left, the vast majority replaced by PSBs, IECCs and ROCs. With the ultimate aim of Network Rail to have just a dozen or so ROCs covering the whole network. Not only the number of Signallers who operated the mechanical boxes there were a lot of S&T staff to maintain the equipment, PWay there are no longer "lengthmen" and local gangs. Shunters, fright guards, second men, station porters, parcel office staff, traction & rolling stock maintainers, Railway Works The Rail Industry does not modernise it's working practices, well it has done so since the very first railway and continues too Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on January 04, 2023, 09:34:35 Is it possible that the 1955 & 61 figures may include British Railways' other businesses at the time which have been long since sold off, i.e. ferries, hotels, etc?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 04, 2023, 09:56:34 Is it possible that the 1955 & 61 figures may include British Railways' other businesses at the time which have been long since sold off, i.e. ferries, hotels, etc? Goodness only knows - though I think the figures came (indirectly - I have not looked it up) from the Beeching report, looking at how the previous closures and modernisation had gone. Which suggests to me (no more) that the numbers are pure rail. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on January 04, 2023, 11:05:45 From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter:
https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749 Quote NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on January 04, 2023, 11:48:24 From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749 Quote NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes. There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills... Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on January 04, 2023, 12:21:43 Not only the number of Signallers who operated the mechanical boxes there were a lot of S&T staff to maintain the equipment, PWay there are no longer "lengthmen" and local gangs. Shunters, fright guards, second men, station porters, parcel office staff, traction & rolling stock maintainers, Railway Works Lovely explanation, thank you ET Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 04, 2023, 18:00:56 From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749 Quote NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes. There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills... As I understand it, signallers aren't particularly keen on the overall strike action but they are linked in the RMT with maintenance workers who massively outnumber them when it comes to a vote so are stuck with it. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on January 04, 2023, 19:26:33 One of the 'modernisation' pre-conditions that the RMT objects to is the wholesale closure of ticket offices. A petition had been set up on the Government petitions website.... 'Require train operators maintain ticket offices at railway stations'. (https://petition.parliament.uk/petitions/622391)
This is the Government response.... Quote Ticket office usage has reduced substantially in the last decade. The Plan for Rail White Paper outlines the modernisation needed to improve the passenger experience and to ensure the railways are financially sustainable. Together with industry we want to move staff out from ticket offices and into the wider station where they can provide more face-to-face help and assistance to passengers. The Government recognises the multiple functions that the ticket offices around the country provide, including enabling passengers to purchase tickets, providing help and advice, and carrying out seat and cycle reservations. Where a train company does suggest a ticket office closure, we expect train operators to consider how these functions will continue to be provided as part of the proposal they put forward under the Ticketing and Settlement Agreement (TSA) process. Section 6-18 of the TSA sets out the process that train companies must follow to make such proposals and is publicly available on the Rail Delivery Group’s website (https://www.raildeliverygroup.com/our-services/rdg-accreditation/ticketing-settlement.html). Alternative retail options are now available in most cases, including ticket vending machines, pay as you go ticketing and online retailing and digital tickets. We recognise that not everyone has access to these retail facilities or is able to use them, and we expect train operators to take this into account when making a proposal. With staff in more mobile roles they can provide additional support to those who cannot or do not want to use alternative retailing options. They will be able to advise on journeys and timetables as well as help customers to buy tickets or access other services. The passenger assistance scheme will continue to be in place to help passengers with additional needs use the rail network with confidence and in safety. To propose any changes to the opening hours or the closure of ticket offices, train operators must follow the process set out in section 6-18 of the TSA. This will involve a public engagement, with train operators required to put notices at stations advising passengers of proposals and what any changes could mean for them. Train operators are also required to contact other operators and the passenger bodies directly under 6-18 of the TSA. If passengers have objections, these can be raised via the passenger bodies (Transport Focus and London TravelWatch) for consideration within 21 days of the notice being posted. The passenger bodies will then determine based on all the evidence if they approve or object to the proposed change. Should the Passenger Bodies object to the proposal it could be referred to the Secretary of State for Transport for a decision. A decision will be made based on the requirements in 6-18 (1) of the TSA and the relevant guidance. As part of this process, train operators are specifically required to take into account the adequacy of the proposed alternatives in relation to the needs of passengers who are disabled and include this in their notice of the proposal sent to other operators and passenger groups. We would also expect operators to consider other equality related needs and make this clear in their public engagement. Department for Transport Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on January 05, 2023, 06:37:15 From RAIL magazine's Philp Haigh on Twitter: https://twitter.com/philatrail/status/1610584623209119749 Quote NR signallers in RMT union at Thames Valley signalling centre have voted against further strikes in a dispute over a colleague's dismissal. 48 voted from 138 eligible, 25 against and 23 for strikes. Ballot failed to meet legal thresholds as did one for action short of strikes. There's solidarity, then there's paying the bills... As I understand it, signallers aren't particularly keen on the overall strike action but they are linked in the RMT with maintenance workers who massively outnumber them when it comes to a vote so are stuck with it. I do not know the details of why the Signallers at Didcot voted for industrial action regarding the dismissal of a colleague, this was / is a local dispute ie between the Signallers and their local Network Rail management, it is unrelated to the National dispute the RMT has with Network Rail Infrastructure Ltd.. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 07, 2023, 10:05:04 Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade.
https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers# As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least. And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones. Not sure what the picture is nationally though? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on January 07, 2023, 10:37:55 Lovely article by Roger French today -
https://busandtrainuser.com/2023/01/07/whos-running-the-railway/ Listening to Mark Harper, Secretary of State for Transport and Mick Lynch, General Secretary of the RMT doing the media rounds during this week’s strikes brought home the dysfunctional state of Britain’s railways. There seems no hope of an early resolution to the current industrial disputes while a state of paralysis continues with no one admitting to being in charge of the railway and taking responsibility. (Continues)......... {Edit to correct Rogers surname - apologies} [/size][/size]Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 07, 2023, 10:46:34 Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade. https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers# As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least. And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones. Not sure what the picture is nationally though? In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 07, 2023, 11:01:20 Why do you think that, TG?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on January 07, 2023, 12:45:27 Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade. https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers# As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least. And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones. Not sure what the picture is nationally though? In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR? The Railways have been working a 6 day rostered week of decades, just so happens we are rostered for duty 5 out of the 6 which often means a rest day mid week. Going to rostered 5 out of 7 will still mean overtime working but now it would be for 2 rest days midweek instead of it being a Sunday the risk of midweek services being cancelled due to lack of staff would be hight Rr are you advocating that Rail workers should work a mandated 7 day working week when the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday I cannot see what the obsession is with adding Sunday in as a "normal working week day" Overtime will always have to be paid at enhanced rates of pay to make working it attractive, after all overtime is voluntary Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Mark A on January 07, 2023, 14:54:04 A twitter thread from a driver that's gone down well so far, here:
https://twitter.com/toptraindriver/status/1611452290598043655 (https://twitter.com/toptraindriver/status/1611452290598043655) Mark Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 08, 2023, 04:51:42 Resumption of nearer to normal services - 8th Jan 2023
Quote Alterations to services on all routes Due to industrial action: Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network will be revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 08/01/23. Customer Advice - Following industrial action which took place between 3-7 January, trains will continue to be disrupted on Sunday 8 January. - There will be a reduced level of service throughout the day; a later start to services in the morning and some late-night services may be cancelled. - Trains that are operating will be extremely busy. Please check before you travel, GWR.com/check - The Night Riviera sleeper service will resume. - Due to planned engineering work, no trains will run between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Parkway or Bath Spa. - Trains between London and Bristol or South Wales will use a different route not stopping at Didcot Parkway, Swindon or Chippenham. Buses will replace trains for stations between Reading and Bath Spa, and between Didcot Parkway and Bristol Parkway. - Shuttle trains will run between Swindon and Cheltenham Spa. - To help customers who have been affected by the recent industrial action, tickets dated for travel on 3, 4, 5, 6 and 7 January can be used up to and including Tuesday 10 January. - For the latest information and FAQs, visit our dedicated strike webpage; GWR.com/strike A shuttle service is also scheduled to run between Westbury and Chippenham, with rail replacement buses on to Swindon, but that hasn't made the JourneyCheck headlines. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 08, 2023, 08:59:19 Finally, an offer (still technically ‘unofficial’ I believe), has been made to the driving grade. https://media.raildeliverygroup.com/news/the-rail-industry-makes-offer-to-aslef-to-drive-up-performance-for-passengers# As a first offer I doubt it will be offered to the membership or accepted but it is something at least. And it probably won’t take too much more as quite cleverly it doesn’t add Sunday’s into the working week and with GWR at least that means the Sunday situation only really affects HSS drivers who are outnumbered by GWR grade ones. Not sure what the picture is nationally though? In other words then, Sunday will remain an unreliable lottery for customers on GWR? The Railways have been working a 6 day rostered week of decades, just so happens we are rostered for duty 5 out of the 6 which often means a rest day mid week. Going to rostered 5 out of 7 will still mean overtime working but now it would be for 2 rest days midweek instead of it being a Sunday the risk of midweek services being cancelled due to lack of staff would be hight Rr are you advocating that Rail workers should work a mandated 7 day working week when the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday I cannot see what the obsession is with adding Sunday in as a "normal working week day" Overtime will always have to be paid at enhanced rates of pay to make working it attractive, after all overtime is voluntary When you say "the norm in all other sectors private or public is a 5 day working week Monday to Friday", who do you think is serving you at the weekends and in the evenings in supermarkets, pubs, cinemas, hotels, hospitals etc? Terms of employment should reflect the fact that the railways are a 7 day operation AND this should be reflected in the number of people employed, not totally relying on overtime which have we have seen in recent years has resulted in regular carnage and mass cancellations on GWR on Sundays. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 08, 2023, 09:46:58 I am obviously missing, or misunderstanding, something here; surely moving to a 5 in 7 or 6 in 7 working week, committing people to work Saturdays and/or Sundays on a rota basis, with sufficient staff employed to cover the service schedule across the whole week and with the same rate of pay for each day of the week has to be more reliable and, possibly more importantly, cheaper than sticking with either a 5 or 6 day contractual working week and thus forking out large amounts of money in, presumably very generous, overtime payments to those staff willing or ?forced to work Saturdays and/or Sundays.
I was employed on such a basis, in the private sector, 35 years ago. Why does UK public sector workforce management seemingly have to be so disorganised? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on January 08, 2023, 20:33:19 I am obviously missing, or misunderstanding, something here; surely moving to a 5 in 7 or 6 in 7 working week, committing people to work Saturdays and/or Sundays on a rota basis, with sufficient staff employed to cover the service schedule across the whole week and with the same rate of pay for each day of the week has to be more reliable and, possibly more importantly, cheaper than sticking with either a 5 or 6 day contractual working week and thus forking out large amounts of money in, presumably very generous, overtime payments to those staff willing or ?forced to work Saturdays and/or Sundays. I was employed on such a basis, in the private sector, 35 years ago. Why does UK public sector workforce management seemingly have to be so disorganised? Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. This would mean employing considerably more staff and with that the associated contributions the employer would be required to make. It is far cheaper to rely on overtime, which I hasten to add, isn’t as generous as you think. 1 and 1/4 I believe. Having said all that, GWR on the driver side of things I understand are well over staffed at some locations. It may be possible that GWR could have the numbers to bring Sundays inside the working week with the alternative being redundancies Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 08, 2023, 22:04:06 Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them. Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on January 09, 2023, 07:31:24 Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them. Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now. But it is an issue for many NR staff Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 09, 2023, 09:29:11 ..... Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. This would mean employing considerably more staff and with that the associated contributions the employer would be required to make. ..... Wouldn't it be lovely if the TOCs and, more especially, our government acted as if they gave a toss about what the travelling public needed? It has evidently not occurred to these Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TrainSpy on January 09, 2023, 09:56:26 Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. Indeed, and the unions aren’t against it (as long as it’s properly negotiated) as it means a lot more members for them. Not sure why we’re discussing Sundays in the working week, when the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now. But that wording seems to be the same ast the RMT offer doesn't it? Both press releases seemed to talk about keeping as overtime, but putting measures in place to make sure people couldn't pull out beforehand and screw the service up I think. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 10:03:28 Yes, that pretty much sums it up.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on January 09, 2023, 10:19:47 Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. When the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now. Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays. No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered? If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 10:37:27 Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays. No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered? If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present. It's possible and any agreement would need to have maximums agreed. I don't expect there to be a huge uplift in services on a Sunday - several routes already run at Saturday frequency levels (with a later start up) - but just an expectation that those that are scheduled to run, will run. The driver links that have committed Sunday's already have not seen any extra Sunday's added over the many years that has been the case, staying at one in three - and it's very noticeable that Sunday cancellations on services crewed by those depots/links are pretty rare. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TrainSpy on January 09, 2023, 12:52:50 Train operators and the government do NOT want Sundays in the working week. When the offer made to ASLEF makes no specific mention of it, and appears to be talking about just making them ‘committed’ for everyone as they are for some now. Which is a problem for some of us who aren’t committed to working Sundays. No only is it enforced overtime but with leisure travel now the main focus is an agreement in place for the maximum number of Sundays you could be rostered? If there’s an uplift in services on a Sunday surely there’s a risk that you could end up being rostered considerably more Sundays than we are at present. Certainly for the RMT side of things, the internal stuff I've seen makes clear that there is an opt-out for those who don't work Sundays. Assume the precise frequency would be negotiated locally? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 09, 2023, 16:24:53 From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members:
Quote Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer. We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it. They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond. We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken. That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 10, 2023, 07:11:35 From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members: Quote Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer. We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it. They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond. We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken. That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January. Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views......... Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 10, 2023, 11:37:40 Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views......... If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 10, 2023, 13:01:52 Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views......... If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html I have sadly come to the conclusion that in order to be a major successful public figure, most aspirers need to do things rather beyond what others would see as normal or acceptable limits and then have the balls (or gender neutral equivalent), spunk, street-wise nouse to carry them off. Which means that we find ourselves lead by a lot of people we don't feel are very nice, however effective they may be. There are some who seem to fit the nice mould - I am pretty sure a few of those may simply be clever enough to ride (or hide) the issues, but I'm equally sure that some are genuine. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 11, 2023, 05:15:10 Andy Hudd keeps some interesting company, with some interesting views......... If we've resorted to slinging mud, it looks like Minister Huw Merriman isn't averse to a bit of 'interesting company' as well: https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5885029/Married-Tory-MP-married-three-children-love-child-aide.html Mudslinging implicitly suggests unfairness and/or unjustness. I don't think it's either unfair or unjust to challenge the appropriateness of a senior member of a British Trade Union associating himself and sharing that platform with a who's who of racists, anti-semites, atrocity revisionists, Putin apologists and some who are in the employment of Russian and Iranian Governments or propaganda outlets. In fact I note that the venue has subsequently thought better of it and cancelled the event - good on them. I'm obviously happy to hear any counter argument to this, and in the words of one of the other eminent panel members, I salute the strength, courage and indefatigability of anyone who has one. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 11, 2023, 07:03:14 I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance.
Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 11, 2023, 08:08:13 I think it’s very interesting that nobody decided to actually comment on the content of the statement I quoted given its significance. Instead, all it prompted was a trip to Google to search for Andy Hudd. Good choice of words. Many posts here tend to silently inform members and the like / feedback tends to come on the side shoots. I do know (from various checks) that content is often read and taken in, even if it gets no responses (even as small as a like), and that's especially the case where the topic has significant controversy. With the current industrial issues, I personally watch with enormous interest but virtually no comment. It is an emotional fight, perhaps of political principle, between various parties none of whom have passengers at top of their agenda (we are a necessary corollary to all of them, no more) and we have no real say in sorting out the problem, even assuming we consider it a problem - some though not many members, I suspect, see it as an opportunity. It is indeed sad where we drop towards name-calling and the moderator / admin team will pick up, when we notice, if things go too far. At the same time, it is valid to ask Google "who is he" about the players involved as it helps us understand where they are coming from and perhaps motivations. So - II thank you for that post; I suspect it is read but not acknowledged / followed up as you might have expected. It is certainly valued in moving information forward. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TrainSpy on January 11, 2023, 11:12:33 I think this is quite interesting in the context of the evidence given by unions and industry to the Transport Select Committee. Rather than me comment on it, it may be worth a scan through for those interested.
www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/6cf2329d-75b9-49e8-a7e9-666ead62b39c From an ASLEF communication from the General Secretary to members: Quote Today, with Simon Weller, assistant general secretary, and Andy Hudd, EC vice-president, I met the Rail Minister, Huw Merriman, for an hour at Great Minster House. He told us he wanted to ‘facilitate’ a resolution to the pay dispute we have with 15 TOCs. This meeting had been in everyone’s diaries for some time and pre-dated the RDG’s offer. We told him that the ‘offer’ leaked to the press earlier last week was done in a way that was utterly reprehensible. After six and a half months waiting for a response to our reasonable request for an increase in pay for our members who have not had one since 2019, the RDG sent out an offer at the end of play on Friday and released elements to the press and media before we had even seen it. They did not have the professional or personal courtesy to let us know it was coming, and ensured that we would not have time to properly consider it and respond. We told the minister this morning – and Steve Montgomery and Andy Meadows, representing the RDG, who were also in the room – that if the government thinks it can negotiate with us via the pages of The Sun or the Daily Mail and make an offer that is really a sleight of hand then they are very much mistaken. That offer will now be dealt with by the EC at its scheduled session on Monday 16 January. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Bob_Blakey on January 11, 2023, 14:22:39 .....in the context of the evidence given by unions and industry to the Transport Select Committee. ..... Having watched this earlier today I am more confident that an agreement could be reached fairly quickly between the RMT/TSSA and NR/RDG but that won't provide a reliable train service if the attitude of ASLEF's Mick Whelan was anything to go by - signallers on duty and stations open but most drivers still on strike would be as useful as a chocolate fireguard. Hopefully he just presented as a stroppy git for the benefit of the cameras! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TrainSpy on January 11, 2023, 18:33:39 I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ellendune on January 12, 2023, 07:47:18 I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out In what sense was it unsolicited. His complaint was that it was delivered without warning just before the meeting so they had no time to consider it. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Also it was leaked to the press at the same time. Which is I agree not very professional. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TrainSpy on January 12, 2023, 11:50:42 I agree - its pretty clear the unions are in different places! And its also pretty clear that the unsolicited offer on Friday wasn't really something Mick W wanted to deal with right now. Will have to see how it plays out In what sense was it unsolicited. His complaint was that it was delivered without warning just before the meeting so they had no time to consider it. That seems perfectly reasonable to me. Also it was leaked to the press at the same time. Which is I agree not very professional. Just in the sense that it wasn't requested by ASLEF. And awkward in the sense that he could no longer say that ASLEF had not received an offer - which means you then have to engage in the detail of what a deal might look like (even if what's in the offer is unacceptable) "Without warning" is interesting given the evidence Steve Montgomery gave to MPs yesterday about multiple discussions and attempts to arrange a meeting beforehand (which ASLEF hasn't denied). If the document doing the rounds is actually the offer sent to ASLEF, the first paragraphs might give some insight into why they could have decided to do it as they did, beyond just a rather cheap PR move. "Due to the limited availability of Associated Society of Locomotive Engineers & Fireman (ASLEF) representatives over the last four months of 2022 we have not been able to make much progress in our discussions as we had envisaged on the key areas of workforce reforms. This has prevented us from being able to table a pay offer for 2022. "In recognition of this situation, this Pay and Workforce Reform Principles Proposal document seeks to set out the employers’ position taking cognisance of the preliminary discussions at industry-wide level, in conjunction with a two-year pay offer. The intention is this will facilitate accelerating our discussions between our respective representatives of the passenger train operators (TOCs) listed in Appendix 1 and ASLEF and a resolution to the current disputes that exist between TOCs and ASLEF. " Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 16, 2023, 12:05:44 From the "On this day" at the top of our forum pages
Quote On this day - 16th Jan (1979) - Winter of discontent - 24 hour rail strike https://libcom.org/article/1978-1979-winter-discontent and https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent Similarities? Differences? Anything to learn from what happened after that winter? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 17, 2023, 10:17:37 From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64303591)
Quote Train drivers to go on strike in February Train drivers are to strike on 1 and 3 February after a pay offer was rejected by the union Aslef. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 17, 2023, 11:33:29 From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rail-strikes-aslef-rejects-new-proposals-and-announces-new-strike-dates.html)
Quote Train drivers union, ASLEF, has announced that it has rejected a new proposal from train operators and has announced new strike dates in February. Strikes will now take place on the 1st and 3rd February 2023. The strikes will affect Avanti West Coast; Chiltern Railways; CrossCountry; East Midlands Railway; Great Western Railway; Greater Anglia; GTR Great Northern Thameslink; London North Eastern Railway; Northern Trains; Southeastern; Southern/Gatwick Express; South Western Railway (depot drivers only); SWR Island Line; TransPennine Express; and West Midlands Trains. The strikes are part of the ongoing dispute over pay and conditions, with 6 strike days already held. Mick Whelan, general secretary of ASLEF, said: ‘The proposal is not and could not ever be acceptable but we are willing to engage in further discussions within the process that we previously agreed.’ ‘It’s now clear to our members, and to the public, that this was never about reform or modernisation but an attempt to get hundreds of millions of pounds of productivity for a 20% pay cut while taking away any hope of the union having any say in the future. Irreparable harm has been done to the integrity of the negotiating process and the future ability to negotiate an appropriate way forward, but we make ourselves available anyway. ‘Not only is the offer a real-terms pay cut, with inflation running north of 10%, but it came with so many conditions attached that it was clearly unacceptable. They want to rip up our terms and conditions in return for a real-terms pay cut! It was clearly a rushed offer, made just before our meeting with the minister, and not one, it seems to me, that was designed to be accepted. Our members at these companies have not had an increase since 2019, despite soaring inflation, and it is time the companies – encouraged, perhaps, by the government – sat down with us and got serious. ‘That is the way – and the only way – to end this dispute.’ It'll be interesting to see how TOCs treat the special offer Advance tickets sold for these days (refund / move date free) and for the day after when services start up much later & bookings made on earlier trains. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 17, 2023, 17:09:59 Also from RailAdvent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rmt-union-announces-february-strike-dates.html)
Quote The RMT Union has announced that 14 train operators will be affected by strike action during February. Strike action will take place on the 1st and 3rd February 2023, which are the same dates as those announced by ASLEF earlier today. The strike on the 1st February coincides with a TUC day of action where several other unions are also striking. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 17, 2023, 17:58:57 I', sure their members are scratching their heads - with very few trains running, disruption is already assured, so aren't thery giving up 2 days pay for extremely little extra effect? What a waste of two days pay - surely far more disruptive to strike on different days to create further disruption worth giving up pay for? ??? ???
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 18, 2023, 05:48:55 I', sure their members are scratching their heads - with very few trains running, disruption is already assured, so aren't thery giving up 2 days pay for extremely little extra effect? What a waste of two days pay - surely far more disruptive to strike on different days to create further disruption worth giving up pay for? ??? ??? To some extent I am scratching my head too. I am noting that Wednesday 1st February is being styled as a national day of action with many other groups taking action and from a solidarity point of view, there is logic in the RMT asking their members to withdraw their labour that day. Having said which, with so many other groups not travelling to work either, does that lessen the effect of the strike that day by transport workers and are we looking at something that has some thin parallels to the extreme public holidays of 25th and 26th December? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on January 18, 2023, 08:33:22 If you read the RMT website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-train-driver-members-to-take-strike-action-feb-1-and-3/), it's RMT train drivers that are striking at the same time as ASLEF. Currently a strike for 'other' grades has not been called.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 18, 2023, 09:43:47 Thanks, that makes more sense! Now why didn’t even the rail presd pick that up I wonder
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 18, 2023, 16:11:29 From GWR ...
Quote Dear Graham You may have seen in the media, that ASLEF (train drivers) will be taking strike action on Wednesday 1st February and Friday 3rd February. RMT train drivers will also strike on the same days. As this is train drivers, it is very likely that we will have no service whatsoever on the vast majority of our network on both dates. We are hoping that we might be able to operate a limited service from Reading to Basingstoke, Reading to Oxford and London Paddington to Bristol Temple Meads. This is not yet confirmed. We will let you know as soon as we have details. Our dedicated strike page at www.gwr.com/strike will be kept updated including information on refunds and when journey planners will be updated. We will also be issuing traditional media, social media, on board station announcements and posters to ensure customers are aware. If you are able to share our updates from our Twitter account at www.twitter.com/gwrhelp or update your own networks in whatever way possible that would be greatly appreciated. We will be in touch again once we have the train plan confirmed, and again thank you for all your help getting the information about the new dates out. Best wishes Jxxx Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on January 18, 2023, 17:19:24 Not really a surprise....
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64317725 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 18, 2023, 17:38:14 Quote Mick Whelan appeared on the Today programme and was left fumbling when pressed on the reality of train driver pay. Nick Robinson pointed out that drivers had gained a 17% pay rise, in real terms, over the past decade. The national average is 1%. That would be £45,000 to £60,000 on average now. And the 4% + 4% offer currently on the table equates to another £5,000 up to £65,000 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on January 19, 2023, 13:47:43 Does anyone know the exact start and end times of the strikes on 1st & 3rd February? Same for both ASLEF and RMT, or staggered?
I'm trying to advise relatives on the likelihood of them being able to travel on the morning of Saturday 4th. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 19, 2023, 13:56:02 Midnight to midnight for ASLEF. I would expect RMT to be the same as it affects only a small number.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 19, 2023, 15:48:54 From Rail Advent (https://www.railadvent.co.uk/2023/01/rail-strikes-rail-delivery-group-send-best-and-final-offer-to-rmt-union.html)
Quote The Rail Delivery Group has confirmed it has sent its ‘best and final offer’ to the RMT union, which should see a five and four percent increase for staff covering the 2022 and 2023 pay awards. The offer has been made through an outline framework agreement and would allow the rail industry to adapt to changes in the way passengers now use the railway, whilst rewarding its staff. The outline agreement sets out a minimum pay increase of nine percent over two years. Staff who are paid below a certain amount will receive a guaranteed £1750 in year one. Pay would be backdated to the relevant 2022 pay awards to allow staff to benefit from a lump sum in the first available pay run. The RDG also says that it has improved on its previous offer, with no compulsory redundancies until 31st December 2024 (previously this was 1st April 2024) The proposals also include: The creation of a new multi-skilled station role, with staff trained to take on a number of responsibilities Creating ‘station groups’ which means staff are able to move between stations to help passengers Use of part-time contracts and flexible working patterns to encourage a more diverse workforce The formalisation of current voluntary working on Sundays, helping to reduce delays and disruption for passengers. A voluntary redundancy scheme will be made available for those who want to leave the industry. The Rail Delivery Group says that the offer does not include any proposals to change the mode of operation of trains, but acknowledges that individual operators can make separate proposals to update and revise on-board roles, for example using new on-board technology for station/driver dispatch processes. Industrial action has cost the rail industry £480m in lost revenue since June, and the RDG says that staff have lost £2000 in pay whilst on strike. Steve Montgomery, chair of the Rail Delivery Group, said: “This is a fair offer that gives RMT members a significant uplift over the next two years – weighted particularly for those on lower incomes who we know are most feeling the squeeze – while allowing the railway to innovate and adapt to new travel patterns. It also means we can offer our people more varied, rewarding careers. “With taxpayers still funding up to an extra £175 million a month to make up the shortfall in revenue post-covid, we urge the RMT to put this offer to its members so we can bring an end to this damaging dispute for our people, our passengers and the long-term future of Britain’s railways.” The RMT Union has responded to the proposal, with RMT general secretary Mick Lynch saying: “The National Executive Committee will be considering this matter and has made no decision on the proposals nor any of the elements within them. “We will give an update on our next steps in due course.” Will that get put to the members, I wonder? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 19, 2023, 15:54:14 I believe the DOO extension has been dropped, or significantly watered down. I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets put to the vote, perhaps with a recommendation to reject like the other RMT dispute.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on January 19, 2023, 16:31:08 RMT Press Release
Quote RMT press release 19.01.23. RMT receives fresh offer from RDG Rail union, RMT today received a new offer from the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) following negotiations in the national rail dispute. The union's NEC will now consider the detail within the offer and what next steps to take. The proposals include detailed documentation covering a range of issues that affect all of our grade groups at these 14 companies and will require serious and careful consideration. The proposals on pay and job security are directly conditional on cost savings and alterations to contractual terms, entitlements, and working practices. RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "The National Executive Committee will be considering this matter and has made no decision on the proposals nor any of the elements within them. "We will give an update on our next steps in due course." END The 'new offer' is essentially the original offer with DOO dropped [although the individual TOCs reserve the right to reinstate it] and an additional 1% on this year's pay offer. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on January 20, 2023, 15:53:03 The full proposals by the RDG have been published by the RMT on their website (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/publications/).
See the 4 pdfs: RDG General Grades proposals, RDG General Grades, Drivers pay and workforce reform proposal and Drivers letter from RDG. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on January 20, 2023, 17:22:35 If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on January 20, 2023, 17:43:31 If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable. The DfT have been making it crystal clear that there will be no straight forward pay rise offered by the TOC's. Any pay rise has to be offset either by increased productivity and/or a reduction in costs. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on January 20, 2023, 17:48:47 If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable. Difficulty is, now that for so many people commuting is an option rather than a necessity, and business travel has fallen through the floor, the RMT don't have much of their traditional leverage left. The strikes are causing inconvenience, but for most a day or two here and there is manageable. It could equally validly be said that sensible RMT members will accept that offer, as turning it down, although providing more opportunities to enhance Bruvver Lynch's newly found celebrity status, will merely result in them losing more money as the Government continue to tough this one out. AIUI there will be no "straightforward" pay rise on offer. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on January 20, 2023, 18:02:52 If RMT members had any sense they will reject that offer. If it was a straight forward pay rise without the attached conditions it’ll be more than acceptable. Difficulty is, now that for so many people commuting is an option rather than a necessity, and business travel has fallen through the floor, the RMT don't have much of their traditional leverage left. The strikes are causing inconvenience, but for most a day or two here and there is manageable. It could equally validly be said that sensible RMT members will accept that offer, as turning it down, although providing more opportunities to enhance Bruvver Lynch's newly found celebrity status, will merely result in them losing more money as the Government continue to tough this one out. AIUI there will be no "straightforward" pay rise on offer. No “straightforward” pay rise will ever be on offer with this government. I highly doubt when MPs get their payrise there is a host of conditions attached to it!! The reforms they are proposing will not make the smallest of dents in the running cost of the railway. To save any significant sum of money you need to look at the structure of the railway. Business and commuting may have fallen off dramatically, but leisure travel is now above pre-Covid levels. That can be as equally as damaging. Staff are quite prepared to see this through, and quite prepared to step up action I never thought I’d say this but the only thing that can save this country, not just the railway, is a General Election. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 21, 2023, 14:00:13 Simon Calder's take on the new offer (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/lifestyle/travel/bye-to-the-buffet-and-ancient-british-rail-agreements-what-a-rail-deal-could-mean-for-passengers-and-staff/ar-AA16znm3?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=2e3867132e054668ae5ddf1b24be7c6f)
Quote Bye to the buffet and ancient British Rail agreements? What a rail deal could mean for passengers and staff The RMT union is still considering the “best and final offer” from the train operators aimed at ending at least one of the long and most bitter national rail disputes that have cost nearly half-a-billion pounds in lost ticket revenue. But any agreement is contingent on a long list of reforms aimed at cutting the cost of the railway – which could include scrapping the catering on some trains and an end to working conditions agreed more than half a century ago when British Rail was still a thing. These are the strings attached to the deal. Remind me of the background? It’s seven months today since the first national rail strikes since the 1980s began. The tangle of disputes that have led to the stoppages centre on pay, job security and working arrangements. Finally this week the train operators – represented by industry body the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) – made an offer to the RMT union that wasn’t immediately rejected. Pay (a headline rise of 9.2 per cent over two years, with staff on £30,000 or less seeing wages rise by at least 10 per cent) and job security (no compulsory redundancies until 2025 at the earliest) appear settled. The main hurdle now: the changes in working arrangements, which the employers say are essential to repair the disastrous railway finances. The union’s executive committee is poring over the detail – but if the union accepts the strings attached to the deal, it could signal all kinds of changes for passengers and staff. Let’s start in the buffet… …or the trolley that trundles up and down some of the nation’s trains. The condition is: “All catering services to be reviewed on the basis of affordability and value for the companies.” At the moment there is no consistency except that most intercity trains have a buffet. A random selection of other trains have a trolley. You might be offered a cup of tea and a biscuit on a one-hour trip in some parts of the country, while on a journey of nearly three hours between Brighton and Cambridge you’ll have to bring your own. I predict that catering on shorter commuter services will disappear: demand for food/drink was very low anyway just by the nature of the short journeys, and with commuting collapsing and so many opportunities to buy at stations, sales have dried up. In future, catering will be offered if there is sufficient demand for a cup of tea and bacon roll for £6 (as on Avanti West Coast) rather than “that’s what we’ve always done”. Are driver-only operation and ticket office closures still likely? No. Both thorny issues are parked in the railway sidings for now. Expanding “driver only operation” – which is the norm for the majority of passengers on Britain’s trains – is no longer a red line for the train operators and the government ministers who are signing off any deal. While the employers’ side still envisage that ticket offices will close, with staff freed up to help passengers, the deal is not contingent on the union endorsing closures. The idea will be put out to consultation. Having said that, the deal accepts a newly created “multi-skilled station grade” aimed at providing more all-round help at stations, and station staff would be expected to go and work at nearby stations if there was a need. Is working Sundays going to become compulsory? Not for existing staff. One of the most absurd aspects of a rail industry that is firmly anchored to the Victorian era and the random local agreements made since then is that a large slab of trains each week run entirely on overtime and goodwill. As an example: on state-run Northern Trains, staff who are based on the east side of the Pennines are expected to work on any day of the week, while those on the west side don’t have to work weekends unless they want to earn some overtime. No airline (apart from El Al, which respects the Jewish Sabbath) would contemplate such an arrangement. It means that Sunday services are more erratic than other days, even when you subtract engineering work. Successive governments have failed lamentably to tackle the issue – and even this deal pulls its punches. While Sundays will become a mandatory part of the shift pattern, existing employees will have an opt-out, and those for whom Sunday working is currently overtime-only will continue on that basis. So a fudge, but one that seems to be heading in the general direction of the 21st century. What do the history books tell us? A lot about why the railways look costly and inefficient to many. The Red, Blue and Green books that governed the conditions of service in the days when the National Union of Railwaymen was up against British Rail (with a different colour book for different grades of staff) are still largely in force. They specify, for example, that a member of staff who becomes unable to continue in their role can remain “Stood Off” on full pay for two years if there is no “Suitable Alternative Work” available. For example, a train manager might argue that an alternative role helping put together training programmes is not “suitable” and therefore they are entitled to stay at home on full pay unless another role is found. The most extreme example I was told about (and which may be apocryphal, as I have found no record of it) was a condition in the Blue Book that was said to prescribe an additional payment to staff who happened to be working in a building that has a microwave in it. The aim today is that new technology should not require extra payments to staff. What are the chances of a rail settlement? I am optimistic that the RMT and the train operators will settle. The two sides worked through last weekend and intensively during this week. They wanted to get a deal into a shape that the union negotiators felt they could put to their National Executive Committee and, if they agree, to the union members in a vote. Removing the insistence on driver only operation and ticket office closures will be seen as a win by the RMT. But this is just one of three big disputes. There’s a parallel one involving the RMT and Network Rail, which the employers’ side say they’re optimistic about. The conflict between the train operators and Aslef, the train drivers’ union, seems far from a deal. An initial offer of 8 per cent over two years contingent on a wide range of reforms was met with derision by union leaders. It triggered an immediate strike call – which happens on Wednesday 1 and Friday 3 February, bringing trains to a standstill in large parts of England but with few effects in Wales and Scotland. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: eightonedee on January 22, 2023, 08:02:07 Good to see someone giving an independent dispassionate and an objective analysis of the position, even if it ultimately says we will be left with a railway that is still inefficient with no overall benefit to passengers
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on January 25, 2023, 20:08:45 GWR’s strike information page has been updated with what they plan to operate during the two days of Industrial action taking place next Wednesday and Friday: www.gwr.com/strike
Quote A very limited service will run only on the following routes between: London Paddington and Bristol Temple Meads Bristol Temple Meads and Cardiff Reading and Basingstoke Reading and Oxford Reading and Redhill Swindon and Westbury Exeter St Davids and Exmouth Exeter St Davids and Paignton Plymouth and Gunnislake Penzance and St Ives That’s more services then during previous action by ASLEF when services just operated between London-Bristol, Reading-Basingstoke and Reading-Oxford. By changing at Bristol, passengers from London can reach Cardiff. With no action taking place on services operated Transport for Wales, the rest of Wales can be reached by a further change of trains at Cardiff. South Western Railway are also not affected by this latest round of Industrial action. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 25, 2023, 20:13:51 I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time!
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on January 25, 2023, 20:40:18 I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time! It is yes. Something that will bring at least a partial smile to a certain resident of Melksham.Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on January 26, 2023, 06:12:30 I note that Swindon-Westbury is included too this time! It is yes. Something that will bring at least a partial smile to a certain resident of Melksham.A step in the right direction - two round trips are timetabled, at 07:37 and 16:25 from Westbury, returning at 08:45 and 17:36 from Swindon. I was initially reminded of the pre 2001, and 2006 to 2013 service of 2 trains each way per day, when real passenger numbers at Melksham were around 3,000 per annum. However, the "Two trains - running too early and too late" joke from those days does not really apply - 08:45 and 17:36 from Swindon is a darned sight better than the 06:15 and 18:44 schedule from history. Having just found the details, I am digesting. Edit to add - on the GWR published timetable for a Wednesday, services should leave Westbury at 05:17, 07:05, 07:37, 09:46, 12:17, 14:16, 16:25, 18:34 and 20:06 and Swindon at 06:11, 08:45, 11:05, 13:15, 15:14, 17:36, 18:52 and 20:45. Underlines are those remaining in the online timetable as I write. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on January 26, 2023, 10:21:40 First trains in Cornwall on a strike day
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on January 29, 2023, 12:58:28 Not quite a poll of members though. Will those wishing to accept put their heads over the parapet in a Branch meeting?
From The Standard (https://www.standard.co.uk/business/business-news/mick-lynch-rmt-members-will-decide-whether-to-accept-offer-to-end-deadlock-b1056344.html) Quote Mick Lynch: RMT members will decide whether to accept offer to end deadlock ‘It’ll be up to our members to decide, and they’ll inform the leadership,’ said RMT general secretary Mick Lynch. Rail, Maritime and Transport (RMT) union leader Mick Lynch has said its members will decide whether to accept an offer to end the long-running dispute over pay, jobs and conditions. The RMT general secretary claimed the Rail Delivery Group’s (RDG) offer is “very challenging”, adding: “I don’t know if our members would be prepared to accept it.” But he stressed that members would be consulted over the coming days before the union’s leadership makes a decision, GB News reported on Saturday. Members of the RMT and the Aslef train drivers union are set to strike again on Wednesday and Friday. Wednesday’s walkouts will come on a day of widespread industrial action, with teachers in England and Wales and around 100,000 civil servants among those set to strike. On Saturday, Mr Lynch told GB News: “We got an offer last week, and train operating companies are now continuing in discussions with Network Rail. “The offer that they’ve made is very challenging for our people. “There are branch meetings happening all over the country, regional meetings, and we’ll get reports back from those meetings from negotiating officers about what our members think… “So that will happen over the next 10 days or so and then we’ll make a decision about what we want to do with the offer.” Under the offer, staff who are paid below a certain threshold will receive a guaranteed £1,750 in year one, ensuring that lower paid employees benefit most. Pay would be backdated to the relevant 2022 pay award date with employers, enabling staff to benefit from a lump sum payment in the first available pay run. But Mr Lynch said pay is not the main issue for members. He added: “A lot of people find it really challenging to see the closure of every booking office in Britain. “The clampdown on their terms and conditions is not going down well in the country amongst our members. “Pay is not the issue that’s burning with our members. “It’s their conditions and the way that they work.” The RDG has said many of its proposals “simply extend” best practice already in place in parts of the network, including the creation of a new multi-skilled station role, new “station groups” so that staff are more able to move between stations to help passengers, for example where there are staff shortages, and the use of part-time contracts and flexible working rosters. Current voluntary working arrangements on Sundays would be formalised, which the RDG said would help to reduce delays and disruption for passengers during weekend travel at a time when Sunday travel demand has increased significantly post-Covid. A voluntary redundancy scheme will be made available for those who wish to leave the industry. The contentious issue of expanding driver-only operation is not included in the new offer. Mr Lynch said: “We’re just giving it a thorough discussion, because it took six months to get this offer. “I’m not optimistic until our members tell me to be optimistic. “What we’ve got is a really poor offer, the pay offer is less than half of the rate of inflation over these two years. “I’m quite suspicious about what’s going on and I don’t know if our members would be prepared to accept it. “It’ll be up to our members to decide, and they’ll inform the leadership.” A Department for Transport spokesperson said: “This dispute has gone on for far too long and we encourage the RMT to put this new offer to its members. “This fair and reasonable offer guarantees employees a pay rise in line with the private sector and no compulsory redundancies, while delivering the reforms needed to address the long-term challenges facing the industry.” The RDG has been approached for comment. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: BBM on February 01, 2023, 10:58:26 James Davis from GWR was on BBC Radio Berkshire this morning, he said that this time the strike action would affect local branch lines in the Thames Valley including Gunnislake to West Ealing ::)
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on February 01, 2023, 13:00:16 James Davis from GWR was on BBC Radio Berkshire this morning, he said that this time the strike action would affect local branch lines in the Thames Valley including Gunnislake to West Ealing ::) Penzance running a St Ives and back service.Plymouth is running a Gunnislake and back today it seems. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 03, 2023, 18:37:25 From The Grauniad (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/01/national-rail-revised-offer-rmt-dispute-union-strikes?utm_term=63db7769dc1bd72b400470851ab3370c&utm_campaign=BusinessToday&utm_source=esp&utm_medium=Email&CMP=bustoday_email)
Quote Network Rail makes revised offer to RMT in effort to end dispute Union says it will consider details of offer after series of strikes over pay, jobs and working conditions Network Rail has made a “newly revised” offer to Britain’s biggest rail workers’ union in an attempt to break the deadlock over a long-running dispute about pay, jobs and conditions. Network Rail, which is responsible for track, signalling and other rail infrastructure in England, Scotland and Wales, said it had added some fresh proposals in the revised offer to the Rail, Maritime and Transport union (RMT). The union, which represents signallers, maintenance staff and other Network Rail workers, said its executive would consider the details of the offer. An RMT spokesperson added: “We will now consult members through branch and regional meetings. An update on our next steps will be forthcoming in due course.” Tim Shoveller, the chief negotiator for Network Rail, said in a message to staff that the company was continuing with its plans for modernising maintenance, adding: “We must press on with this regardless of the pay dispute. We believe it will help to create a safer, better railway and jobs. Local consultation is under way and is providing the local level detail people want. “We want to introduce a standard 35-hour working week for everyone. We’re now committing to work with the unions to review contracts above a 35-hour week so we can agree a way forward.” “We’ll introduce a better long-service award framework for general grades, which will be backdated to 2022. We’ll improve carers’ leave. If you are a registered carer, you will be able to transfer five days paid volunteering leave to five days paid carers’ leave.” Network Rail said updated elements of the offer included an increase in London allowances for those who are on or move on to different contracts. It said it was offering a minimum uplift of a consolidated £1,750, or a 5% increase (whichever is greater) up to a maximum of £3,500, to the annual base rates of pay backdated to 1 January 2022, and a 4% increase to the annual base rates of pay effective from January 2023. Over the two years, this adds up to an increase of between 9.2% to 14.4%, more for those on the lowest salaries, said Network Rail. There was also a commitment to no compulsory redundancies until January 2025, a 75% leisure travel discount for employees and their families, a 75% price reduction on employees’ season tickets and an opportunity to sell 10 days of leave if any is carried over from 2022. Apprentices will see a “big increase” to their pay, backdated to April 2022, Network Rail added. The RMT has held a series of strikes over the past few months in its dispute with Network Rail, a row that is separate to the one with train operators. The union’s dispute with Network Rail is separate to the train drivers’ row with rail operators, which led to a strike on Wednesday. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on February 10, 2023, 15:51:46 RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then :(
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64600975 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on February 10, 2023, 16:52:12 RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then :( Quote The RMT rail union has rejected pay offers from Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in a blow to any hopes that the long-running dispute was close to reaching its end. Network Rail and the RDG said the deals are their "best and final" offers. But RMT boss, Mick Lynch, described them as "dreadful". The rejection was made by the union's national executive committee but the industry and government want the offers to be put to a members' vote. And how can that gap be bridges?? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 10, 2023, 17:38:06 RMT rejects “dreadful” new offers from Network and train companies. So that’s a ‘no’ then :( Quote The RMT rail union has rejected pay offers from Network Rail and the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) in a blow to any hopes that the long-running dispute was close to reaching its end. Network Rail and the RDG said the deals are their "best and final" offers. But RMT boss, Mick Lynch, described them as "dreadful". The rejection was made by the union's national executive committee but the industry and government want the offers to be put to a members' vote. And how can that gap be bridges?? Letting the RMT membership have a say might be a start. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Henry on February 10, 2023, 17:43:21 Staff earning less than £30,000 it was not a dreadful offer, approx 11% with back-pay for 2022. A lot of RMT members did not get to vote as it was not a postal ballot, but an open vote by social media I believe. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on February 10, 2023, 17:59:02 Staff earning less than £30,000 it was not a dreadful offer, approx 11% with back-pay for 2022. A lot of RMT members did not get to vote as it was not a postal ballot, but an open vote by social media I believe. For the vast majority of members, it was not the pay offer that was the problem, but the 'reforms' that went with it. Quote The RMT union’s National Executive Committee has carefully considered the responses it has received since inviting branches, regional councils and representatives to submit their views on the offer tabled last week by Network Rail. Your NEC has now taken the following decision: “This NEC notes that that following widespread consultation and debate across the membership: responses were received from over 60 Branches 300 of our workplace representatives responded an online meeting was held with over 100 train operating representatives The overwhelming conclusion from this mass consultation is that the proposals from the RDG are entirely unacceptable and should be rejected. The proposals include the closure of all Ticket Offices, job cuts and detrimental attacks to our members current terms and conditions, along with the creation of a two-tier workforce. This NEC will not accept this poor pay offer and the carving up of hard-fought terms and conditions of our rail worker members. Therefore, the General Secretary is instructed to seek further meetings with the Rail Delivery Group setting out a clear position that this National Executive Committee rejects the proposals in their entirety and to make clear this offer and its format is unacceptable to our members. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 10, 2023, 18:44:35 Lynch now seeking an "unconditional" pay offer.
BBC News - RMT union rejects latest offers in rail dispute https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64600975 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 10, 2023, 18:50:34 Quote The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices". Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on February 10, 2023, 19:34:45 Quote The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices". Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes. To be brutally honest, many would accept just that if it was that or the current offer. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on February 11, 2023, 07:46:56 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another.
Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 08:51:22 Quote The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices". Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes. The RMT's position is now that they want an unconditional pay rise in a time of falling revenue and rising costs with no measures attached to reduce costs in order to mitigate it. In a nutshell, this illustrates the fantasy world they inhabit. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:10:42 Quote The RMT said it was seeking "an unconditional pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members terms, conditions and working practices". Not a hope....the best will be nothing % & no changes. The RMT's position is now that they want an unconditional pay rise in a time of falling revenue and rising costs with no measures attached to reduce costs in order to mitigate it. In a nutshell, this illustrates the fantasy world they inhabit. An unconditional payrise……. just like the MPs have been awarded then! Surely what’s good enough for an MP should be good enough for us all? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:16:02 You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book!
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:33:50 You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book! Apply for a job at the RDG! I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it. You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:43:04 both From the Telegraph, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/train-union-introduced-same-pension-reforms-for-office-staff-that-drivers-are-striking-over/ar-AA17lzWJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3856e08d1d1f4983ab6870ca6c1ee2fa)
Quote Train union introduced same pension reforms for office staff that drivers are striking over The train drivers’ union, Aslef, has been accused of “glaring hypocrisy” after imposing the same pension changes on its own office staff as those it is opposing on the railways. Drivers across England walked out for the eighth time last week, bringing almost all services to a halt. Mick Whelan, Aslef’s general secretary, described the long-running action as a “fight to maintain the pay, terms and conditions, and the pensions of our members”. Among the reforms they are fighting is a plan to raise the retirement age from 62 to 65 for most staff. But the union’s accounts reveal that the retirement age in the pension scheme it offers for its own staff has been raised to 66. Chris Loder, a Tory MP, former railwayman and member of the Transport Select Committee, said: “This is glaring hypocrisy from Aslef. They clearly recognise their own pension scheme needs reform – but they are prepared to spoil the travel plans of millions to stop the same badly-needed changes happening on the railways.” Aslef has been kept largely at arm’s length by train bosses as they focus their attention on striking a deal with the larger Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT). But the RMT dealt passengers a huge blow on Friday as they rejected a 9 per cent pay rise by train operators and Network Rail. The move raises the prospect of more industrial action after one of the most disrupted periods on the railways. Train drivers, who earn an average £60,000 per year for in many cases a four-day week, enjoy generous defined-benefit pensions of a type that has almost vanished in the rest of the private sector. But the scheme has a reported funding gap of £5-6 billion. To close it, managers are seeking to increase pay-outs to pensioners in line with the Consumer Price Index measure of inflation, instead of the higher Retail Price Index, as well as upping the retirement age for the majority. Mr Whelan has pledged to “fight” the changes, telling a rally in August: “No one’s going to attack our terms and conditions while we’re fighting, no workers are going to be sacked while we’re fighting, no pensions will be slashed while we’re fighting.” Aslef is also to ballot drivers on the London Underground for strikes over pensions, even though no specific changes have yet been proposed to the Tube’s scheme. “If TfL or the Government try to force through detrimental changes, the result will be sustained and hard-hitting industrial action,” Finn Brennan, the union’s London organiser, said. The union’s latest annual accounts, quietly published last month, show that Aslef recently changed the in-house pension scheme it offers for its own staff, raising the retirement age to 66 and changing increases in payments “to be in line with CPI inflation, or 2.5 per cent if lower.” The scheme is also moving to a less generous “career average” arrangement for benefit accrual. As a result, the accounts say, contributions paid by Aslef to staff members’ pensions will fall from 37 or 39.5 per cent of an employee’s salary to just 19.6 or 22.1 per cent. As with the wider rail industry, the action appears to have been taken to close a funding gap in the scheme, of £11.5 million in Aslef’s case. Mr Whelan, the highest-paid member of the pension scheme, received pension contributions from the union of just under £29,000 in 2020-21, according to the accounts – almost as much as the entire national average full-time wage that year. This sum was in addition to his salary of £108,610. ‘The dispute today is only about pay’ Aslef is also seeking above-inflation pay rises for drivers, saying most have not had a pay rise since 2019. However, most train driver salaries, unlike those of other workforces in dispute, have largely kept pace with prices because of above-inflation increases in previous years. The railways have lost around 20 per cent of their revenues with a post-pandemic decline in commuting and Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, has warned that there is not “a bottomless pit” of money for pay rises. A spokesman for Aslef said: “The dispute today is only about pay and not about anything else.” The spokesman refused to respond to the allegation of hypocrisy. And this (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/mick-lynch-forced-to-reject-pay-deal-as-rail-strikers-plot-to-bring-down-capitalism/ar-AA17kCtJ?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=3856e08d1d1f4983ab6870ca6c1ee2fa) Quote Mick Lynch forced to reject pay deal as rail strikers plot to bring down capitalism Mick Lynch has been forced to reject a pay deal that would have ended the rail strikes following a backlash from union members plotting to bring down capitalism. The Rail, Maritime and Transport workers union (RMT) general secretary turned down a wage increase of 9pc on Friday, despite his own deputies helping to draft the agreement attached to it. Mr Lynch said: "Our members cannot accept the ripping up of their terms and conditions.” The refusal to even put the offer to a ballot of the RMT’s 40,000 members has now left Government and industry sources questioning whether Mr Lynch has lost control of the union and is only “leader of the RMT in name”. A Whitehall source said: "His statement today reads like a hostage note. It's probably a matter of time before he goes.” An internal memo, seen by The Telegraph, reveals the pressure Mr Lynch is under from roughly 450 branch leaders. The activists order Mr Lynch to do more to hasten “the suppression of the capitalist system by a socialistic order of society”. They also call for rail strikes every Saturday to advance their agenda, and demand Mr Lynch increase members' fees to establish a war chest to pay strikers. The RMT's national executive committee will meet on Feb 15 to consider announcing fresh strike dates. Mr Lynch has also committed to discuss the setting up of a strike fund. Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, said: “The RMT’s rejection of these best and final offers is a kick in the teeth for passengers across the country and the RMT's own members, who having been ordered to take strike action are now being blocked from having a say on their own future. "The RMT’s leaders should have had the courage to allow their own members to have the chance to vote on their own pay and conditions, rather than making that decision for them behind closed doors. “It is time for those union leaders to face the reality – our railways are currently not financially sustainable, reform is essential. I have played my part. I met union leaders. The Rail Minister and I facilitated regular meetings between all parties. We guaranteed fair and reasonable offers on pay and reform. It is now clear that no realistic offer is ever going to be good enough for the RMT leadership.” In leaked feedback from branch leaders, Mr Lynch is told: “We believe that these offers do nothing to offer our members job security and are simply an attack on terms and conditions, attacking everything from our members roles, their work life balance to their ability to have a safe and proper break, all attached to a pay cut.” East Midlands Central refers to changes to working practices as a “bonfire of TOC [train operator company] members' terms and conditions”. It calls for “strikes on every Saturday for the duration of the dispute apart from May. [And] a continuous three-day strike starting on the first Monday of May”. The Newcastle branch says: “Having consulted the union's rule book... [it] stipulates the following – to work for the suppression of the capitalist system by a socialistic order of society and to improve the conditions and protect the interests of its members. “It is evident from our perspective that we have failed in our pursuit to deliver these key objectives, demands and principles and as such, Newcastle rail and catering branch reaffirms its opening statement in that we reject these proposals outright and continue with an industrial strategy until such a time as we prevail.” The RMT’s decision to reject what Mark Harper, the Transport Secretary, referred to as a “best and final” offer will come as a hammer blow to beleaguered commuters, who have suffered from the worst wave of industrial action for a generation. In January it appeared that both sides were nearing a deal as both sides agreed to a statement that “we are working jointly towards a revised offer”. RMT negotiators went through the conditions attached to the on a “line by line basis”, according to one source. And the RMT’s approach contrasts with that of the TSSA, which on Friday said thousands of its members would be able to vote on a near-identical pay deal. A senior rail source said: “This is a union which makes much of its democratic credentials. Yet after weeks of dithering and delay, fewer than five hundred activists and officials have rejected an offer on behalf of tens of thousands of ordinary members, who were denied a say. “That is in stark contrast to the TSSA. They are making sure their members get a say on the offer we made. That’s what a democratic organisation does. “It’s time to get real, the railway is on the brink. Since the strikes began staff have burnt through thousands in lost pay and the best part of half a billion pounds has vanished in revenue, we simply can not continue on as we are. So far only the TSSA appears to get it.” The RMT declined to announce further strike dates and said it would seek further talks to work towards a negotiated settlement. Mr Lynch added: "We have carried out an extensive listening exercise and our members have spoken. "If our union did accept these offers, we would see a severe reduction in scheduled maintenance tasks, making the railways less safe, the closure of all ticket offices and thousands of jobs stripped out of the industry when the railways need more investment not less. "Our industrial campaign will continue for as long as it takes to get a negotiated settlement that meets our members' reasonable expectations on jobs, pay and working conditions." Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 09:45:19 You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book! Apply for a job at the RDG! I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it. You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot. I suspect that I'd need the Chancellor's job to get that through the DfT ::) Or Mick Whelan/Lynch's....coz I suspect the unions would turn even that offer down as too meagre Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 09:57:36 The articles you’ve quoted.
Personally, I’ve not heard about the ASLEF one. The article relating to the RMT, well, the author and other parties seem to be totally clueless!! “The refusal to even put the offer to a ballot of the RMT’s 40,000 members has now left Government and industry sources questioning whether Mr Lynch has lost control of the union and is only “leader of the RMT in name”” Mick Lynch doesn’t control the RMT. He effectively just leads the RMT and represents the membership. The decisions are made democratically. The feeling in the messroom of the latest offer was of a strong rejection. The government are deliberately trying to divide the workers. There are doing this by not allowing each TOC to negotiate a settlement. The current offers have little impact on some grades and a huge impact on others. The same applies within Network Rail. The RDG have not made an unconditional offer. Perhaps because they don’t want to resolve the dispute. Make a 2.9% offer, or £2400 rise. The same as MPs are receiving, and let’s have a vote. Staffing does not need reforming. The structure of the railway system needs reforming. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on February 11, 2023, 10:11:47 You’re welcome to 2.9% with no strings attached in my book! Apply for a job at the RDG! I’ll provide you a reference. 2.9% and (£2,400 for the lowest paid). I’d take it. You’ll do a much better job then the current incompetent lot. I suspect that I'd need the Chancellor's job to get that through the DfT ::) Or Mick Whelan/Lynch's....coz I suspect the unions would turn even that offer down as too meagre I refer you to reply #509 above Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 11, 2023, 10:24:46 But would the Micks (plural) put the offer to a members vote?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 10:34:58 But would the Micks (plural) put the offer to a members vote? You would hope so. It depends on the strength of feeling from all the local branches. I think we have to accept 5% is probably as high as any offer would go. At the end of the day, it’s a 1% difference from an offer with ridiculous changes to T&C’s attached. After deductions we are talking just a few £. Is it really worth it? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 13:06:09 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another. Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members FBU is balloting all its members on the offer. If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 14:01:54 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another. Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members FBU is balloting all its members on the offer. If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another? The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 11, 2023, 16:22:49 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another. Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members FBU is balloting all its members on the offer. If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another? The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical. That's one interesting way of looking at it! :) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ellendune on February 11, 2023, 19:00:13 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another. Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members FBU is balloting all its members on the offer. If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another? You do realise that since the government made laws to prohibit electronic ballots, each postal ballot is extremely expensive. If the government would be prepared to change the law to allow electronic ballots. If they hadn't made such restrictive laws, unions might be more willing to ballot on offers. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on February 11, 2023, 20:55:59 My personal feeling is the RMT looked at what the Fire Fighters have been awarded and taken a view if its good enough for one public sector then its good enough for another. Will the RMT hold onto all of its members, at some locations there is some unease within the RMT members FBU is balloting all its members on the offer. If a ballot's good enough for one public sector union then surely it's good enough for another? The difference being the offers made to the respective unions are not identical. That's one interesting way of looking at it! :) It’s the only way of looking at it! Correct me if I’m wrong, the offer made to the FBU is unconditional. Again, correct me if I’m wrong, a previous unconditional pay offer was previously rejected. The RMT or ASLEF have never been in that position. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 15, 2023, 17:26:23 This needs watching - it's an excellent interview
https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m001j8vq/hardtalk-mick-lynch-general-secretary-rmt-union Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on February 16, 2023, 17:43:26 New strike dates announced
TOC staff 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 16th March 2023 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 18th March 2023 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 30th March 2023 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Saturday 1st April 2023 Signallers Strike: 0001 hours and 2359 hours on Thursday 16th March 2023 Overtime Ban: 0001 Hours on Sunday 26th March 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 1st April 2023 / 0001 Hours on Sunday 9th April 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 15th April 2023 / 0001 Hours on Sunday 23rd April 2023 and 2359 Hours on Saturday 29th April 2023 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on February 16, 2023, 17:57:41 RMT Press Release
Quote PRESS RELEASE: 15 February 2023 RMT Press Office: Rail union RMT, will take nationwide strike action across the railways on 16 March after employers refused to put any new offers on the table. The union which represents 40,000 workers across Network Rail and 14 train operators rejected offers from employers last week, as they did not meet the needs of members on pay, job security or working conditions. Rail workers will now launch a programme of strike action and Network Rail members will commence an overtime ban effecting maintenance and operations work. RMT is seeking an unconditional offer from rail operators and Network Rail. RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said: "Rail employers are not being given a fresh mandate by the government to offer our members a new deal on pay, conditions and job security. "Therefore, our members will now take sustained and targeted industrial action over the next few months. "The government can settle this dispute easily by unshackling the rail companies. "However, its stubborn refusal to do so will now mean more strike action across the railway network and a very disruptive overtime ban. "Ministers cannot continue to sit on their hands hoping this dispute will go away as our members are fully prepared to fight tooth and nail for a negotiated settlement in the months ahead." END Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 16, 2023, 18:06:13 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet…
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: bobm on February 16, 2023, 18:13:36 Probably does for those workers trying to use the trains too.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on February 16, 2023, 18:42:15 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 16, 2023, 20:31:27 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Hearts bleeding across the land..... Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on February 17, 2023, 06:56:55 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on. It's never as simple as it sounds for an individual, it is known that so called "black legs" will be ostracised by their work colleges for years for people in safety critical rolls could lead to dangerous occupancies. There is disquiet within some NR work locations, there have been people leave the RMT. The RMT move to ban overtime for NR staff could backfire Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: infoman on February 17, 2023, 12:22:33 March and April strike dates have been announced
Thursday March 16, Saturday march 18 Thursday March 30 Saturday April 1, Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on February 17, 2023, 12:37:23 See reply 527 above. ???
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 24, 2023, 14:16:47 TSSA accepts offer and calls off industrial action.
https://news.sky.com/story/train-drivers-union-tssa-cancels-strike-action-after-members-accept-pay-deal-12818865 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Wizard on February 25, 2023, 11:26:21 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on. When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 25, 2023, 12:05:08 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on. When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true. That says a great deal more about those doing the ostracising than the staff members who went to work. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Wizard on February 26, 2023, 08:21:52 Complaints on social media that for some/most? staff, all four days fall into one pay packet… Nothing to prevent anyone unhappy with the dates announced from crossing a picket and booking on. When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true. That says a great deal more about those doing the ostracising than the staff members who went to work. Whilst that may be true, it isn’t much comfort to the staff involved. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 26, 2023, 09:18:30 An interesting conflation of the conflict in Ukraine with the latest RMT dispute from one of the NEC....... ::)
https://twitter.com/STWuk/status/1629483933548044292?s=20 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on February 27, 2023, 03:23:03 When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true. Just how many 57+ year old staff are there still ostracising picket line crossing colleagues? There's bearing a grudge for four decades then there's hyperbole... ::) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on February 27, 2023, 04:11:40 The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points.
Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on February 27, 2023, 06:30:18 The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points. Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers. Paddington Bear used the same tactic. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Wizard on February 27, 2023, 10:55:42 When you see staff members that are still ostracised 41 years on after coming in during the 1982 dispute, that’s not entirely true. Just how many 57+ year old staff are there still ostracising picket line crossing colleagues? There's bearing a grudge for four decades then there's hyperbole... ::) As a quarter of all drivers are 55 and over, quite a few. And that rubs off on others too. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on February 27, 2023, 18:08:22 The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points. Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers. Paddington Bear used the same tactic. But that's a fictional character, the relationship between strikers and workers who cross picket lines is real life Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 01, 2023, 06:35:31 The recent First Kernow bus strike saw a minority of union members 'intimidating' others by hard staring at certain vantage points. Feelings still run deep between strikers and non strikers. Paddington Bear used the same tactic. But that's a fictional character, the relationship between strikers and workers who cross picket lines is real life I'm indebted to you for that clarification. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on March 01, 2023, 19:39:50 But that's a fictional character, Paddington Bear isn't real??!! :o :o :o Say it isn't so. :'( Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on March 06, 2023, 14:43:22 Talks to avoid more rail strikes on brink of failure
From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64861170) Quote National level talks between the Rail Delivery Group and the RMT appear to be on the brink of failure, as another train strike looms next Thursday. Now, the RDG, which represents train companies, has written to the union saying that if the latest offer is not put to union members in a vote, national level talks may not resume. It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. The RMT has been contacted for comment. The national rail dispute has been at an impasse since the RMT's national executive committee rejected "best and final" offers from rail bosses. The RDG will wait for the RMT's response before deciding how to proceed. The Rail Delivery Group (RDG) and the RMT - the largest rail union - have been negotiating for months. Unions have been calling for an unconditional pay offer during talks with the RDG and Network Rail. The RMT has previously said it is "focused on coming to a negotiated settlement", and that it had carried out an "in-depth consultation" before the decision to reject was made. As well as an unconditional pay offer, it called for "a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members' terms, conditions and working practices". The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of "reforms". The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations. Rail workers have been offered pay rises of 5% for 2022/23 and 4% for 2023/4, in exchange for changes to working practices. The government controls how much money is on the table and has to sign off on what is agreed. There has been no sign it is prepared to enable further offers to be made. A smaller union, the TSSA, has accepted. Network Rail boss Andrew Haines has also cast doubt on the prospect of negotiations resuming, expressing frustration. He said: "We are having to take stock because three consecutive times we've agreed… what we believed was an in principle deal with the negotiators, only for it to be rejected three times by the executive committee of the RMT." Network Rail hopes that more trains will be able to run on 16 March compared with previous strikes, however the service that is on offer will still be very limited. Separately, the train drivers' union Aslef has held a series of meetings with the RDG in recent weeks, after its initial offer was strongly rejected. The union viewed it as a chance to start again with a blank sheet. Aslef currently has no more strikes in the diary but further action is possible without a breakthrough. It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. - isn't that what the RMT has been suggesting almost from the start? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 06, 2023, 14:59:45 "The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of reforms. The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations".
I think this is a pivotal point - if the RMT think they are going to get an unconditional pay offer which isn't linked to reforms to reduce costs at a time of falling demand and income and a rising cost base then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Taxpayer subsidies to the railways are already huge - how much more are the public going to tolerate without mitigation from the industry? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: trainbuff on March 06, 2023, 22:48:45 Much of the money goes to the Rolling stock companies and for profit. Why cant the offer be the same as for firefighters to which no conditions were attached?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Electric train on March 07, 2023, 07:41:05 Talks to avoid more rail strikes on brink of failure From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64861170) Quote National level talks between the Rail Delivery Group and the RMT appear to be on the brink of failure, as another train strike looms next Thursday. Now, the RDG, which represents train companies, has written to the union saying that if the latest offer is not put to union members in a vote, national level talks may not resume. It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. ....................... It says talks would have to be opened between the RMT and each individual train company involved. - isn't that what the RMT has been suggesting almost from the start? I just wonder if this says more about a lack of agreement between the employers, that is some of the employers may be willing or in a better place to offer a deal that they believe the Union members in their business will accept, the DfT (Government) putting the RDG in the lead to get a single deal across all the TOC's flys in the face of one of the concepts of rail privatisation was the to "break the power of the Unions" "The government and industry have said all along that any pay increase must be on condition of reforms. The industry viewed the demand for an "unconditional" pay offer as rejecting the premise of negotiations". I think this is a pivotal point - if the RMT think they are going to get an unconditional pay offer which isn't linked to reforms to reduce costs at a time of falling demand and income and a rising cost base then they are living in cloud cuckoo land. Taxpayer subsidies to the railways are already huge - how much more are the public going to tolerate without mitigation from the industry? The RMT do not want an unconditional pay offer, they have always been open to negotiation, and there is evidence of give an take of both the Unions and employers but this is being constrained by the Government. The cynic in me says the main reason why the Government are now willing to talk to the NHS Unions on a pay deal is the Local Elections in May where NHS strikes would be politically bad news especially is strikes happened on Polling Day Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 07:47:10 https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute
3rd paragraph; "The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices". Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on March 07, 2023, 09:52:07 https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute 3rd paragraph; "The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices". This article is over a month old! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 09:58:20 https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute 3rd paragraph; "The union said it was seeking an "unconditional“ pay offer, a job security agreement and no detrimental changes being imposed on members’ terms, conditions and working practices". This article is over a month old! This one's less than a day old; https://inews.co.uk/news/train-strikes-talks-collapse-rmt-union-pay-deal-2191340?ico=related_stories#:~:text=An%20offer%20of%20a%20salary%20increase%20of%205,which%20rail%20companies%20have%20refused%20to%20agree%20to. "Industrial relations fell further after the union demanded that any pay increase be “unconditional”, a demand that rail companies have refused to agree to". Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on March 07, 2023, 20:03:32 BBC News - RMT members suspend strike action at Network Rail
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64883158 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on March 20, 2023, 13:43:27 RMT members at Network Rail vote to accept pay deal
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65015207) Quote Thousands of signal workers and maintenance staff in the RMT have voted to accept an offer from Network Rail. It means they will not take part in any more strikes in the long-running dispute over pay, jobs and working conditions. RMT members who work for 14 train operating companies are still due to walk out on 30 March and 1 April. But the Network Rail result will be seen as a significant breakthrough. RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the dispute was now over, but said RMT members at the train operating companies would continue to strike unless they received the "right offer". "The ball is in the government's court," he added. The question now is whether this opens the door to progress on the train companies' side of the dispute. The deal has been accepted after Network Rail amended its previously rejected offer of a 5% pay rise for 2022 and a 4% increase this year. The government did not put any more money on the table, but the tweaked proposals backdated this year's pay increase by three months, meaning workers end up with a bigger lump sum upfront. The RMT said the offer amounted to an uplift on salaries of between 14.4% for the lowest paid grades to 9.2% for the highest paid. The package also included heavily discounted leisure travel. There have been a string of rail strikes since June last year. Without signalling staff involved, the disruption caused by RMT's walkouts is on a slightly smaller scale. Operators not directly involved are unaffected. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Phantom on March 21, 2023, 10:54:59 I'm going from WSM to Cardiff on Thursday 30th around lunchtime, and then return the next day late morning
Does anyone know when the timetables will be finalised for those dates please? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on March 21, 2023, 11:15:36 Roughly 2-3 days before hand, so likely to be Monday next week, similar to last week's strikes
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on March 22, 2023, 17:49:13 Rail strikes for 30th of March and 1st of April have been called off:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64896128 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on March 22, 2023, 17:54:31 Hopefully it's the beginning of the end of RMT action.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2023, 17:57:02 Wonder how ASLEF will take this?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on March 22, 2023, 18:12:09 Wonder how ASLEF will take this? In calling off the strike action that means they are in the same position as ASLEF. In dispute, but with negotiations open and no strike action dates in the pipeline. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on March 22, 2023, 18:49:59 Wonder how ASLEF will take this? In calling off the strike action that means they are in the same position as ASLEF. In dispute, but with negotiations open and no strike action dates in the pipeline. And the next meeting is arranged for the 04 April so it’s unlikely any new dates or offers will be announced before then. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: bobm on March 22, 2023, 21:04:34 Suggests it might be safe to make Easter travel plans.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on March 22, 2023, 21:10:20 Yup!
The RMT will need a new strike mandate by the middle of May too. That could be interesting Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on March 23, 2023, 03:06:44 Yup! The RMT will need a new strike mandate by the middle of May too. That could be interesting Details of a new ballot to be circulated to RMT members today. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on April 06, 2023, 16:29:10 From Proactive Investors (https://www.proactiveinvestors.co.uk/companies/news/1011551/rail-talks-hit-dead-end-strikes-spell-easter-travel-chaos-1011551.html)
Quote Negotiations between the National Unon of Rail, Maritime and Transport Workers (RMT) and rail companies have hit a dead end, the former said on Thursday. “No new document has been produced” by the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) since RMT suspended planned strike action on March 30 and April 1, leaving members “frustrated” according to the union. It had cancelled the strikes after a proposal made by the RDG on March 22, but suggested talks had ground to a halt since, with re-ballot papers being sent to members from Thursday. “While negotiations continue, we remain in dispute and resolute in our determination to win a further mandate for strike action in the upcoming re-ballot,” said RMT. I am always cautious about single source stories ... so just for the moment this could be a first release that other will follow, or it could prove false as it is clarified. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on April 06, 2023, 18:57:43 I am always cautious about single source stories ... so just for the moment this could be a first release that other will follow, or it could prove false as it is clarified. RMT press release today, 6th April 2023: Quote RMT Press Office: The union has had several meetings with the Rail Delivery Group (RDG) since we suspended our strike action on the 14 train operators, following a proposal made to us on March 22nd. These meetings were to further discuss the issues of the dispute - in particular Year 2 of the proposal that led to the suspension of strikes and the process of workforce reform. However, no new document has been produced by the employer. Members are rightly frustrated by this, and the Tory government is once again absent when it comes to giving the RDG the mandate to produce a new document. The RDG have agreed to write to us in due course and we will be meeting them next week. While negotiations continue, we remain in dispute and resolute in our determination to win a further mandate for strike action in the upcoming re-ballot. Be in no doubt, if further strikes are needed, RMT will not hesitate to act to ensure a negotiated settlement on jobs, pay and working conditions. END Notes: Re-ballot papers for a further 6-month strike mandate go out today with a closing date of May 4. As long as, following that ballot and with a mandate, the RMT don't choose any dates between 16th - 23rd May. With the minimum 14 days notice ahead of strike action they could just pick a date during my holiday. Although, aware of the potential for further strike action, I have taken out an insurance policy for my holiday to Isle of Man. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: MVR S&T on April 06, 2023, 20:58:21 Wish they would sort this, still do not feel confident to book anything yet. Still, the Swanage now have their Wareham link open, so a day trip to Corfe is a must soon.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on April 06, 2023, 21:57:22 I misread that as 'Corfu' initially. Quite some day trip!
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: MVR S&T on April 06, 2023, 22:01:30 I have done Bournemouth to Edinburgh and back in a day, a long time ago mind!
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on April 27, 2023, 11:09:29 Following ASLEF’s rejection of the latest RDG proposal, strike dates have been called for 12th May, 31st May and 3rd June. With a rest day and overtime ban on 13th May, 15-20th May and 1st June.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on April 27, 2023, 12:47:40 Following ASLEF’s rejection of the latest RDG proposal, strike dates have been called for 12th May, 31st May and 3rd June. With a rest day and overtime ban on 13th May, 15-20th May and 1st June. More on this breaking news story here: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65410800Quote Train drivers are set to strike again, including on the day of the FA Cup final, as part of a long-running row over pay, the Aslef union says. As well as striking on 3 June, members will walk out on 12 May and 31 May. It comes after the union rejected a fresh offer from 16 train firms, including a 4% pay rise for two years in a row and changes to conditions. The organisation which represents train companies said the walkouts were "totally unnecessary". The action is expected to cause major disruption across large parts of the country's railways, with some 13,000 drivers striking over the three days. The first day of strike action on 12 May is the day before the Eurovision Song Contest final in Liverpool. On 3 June, thousands of football fans are set to travel to Wembley Stadium in London as Manchester United take on their rivals Manchester City in the FA Cup final. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on April 27, 2023, 14:01:11 Striking on Cup Final day.......that'll get a lot of public sympathy in Manchester! ::)
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on April 27, 2023, 16:36:10 Striking on Cup Final day.......that'll get a lot of public sympathy in Manchester! ::) I suspect striking the day before Eurovision isn't going to go down well either, especially given the circumstances that Liverpool are hosting the event is because the winners last year, Ukraine can't.Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: infoman on April 27, 2023, 17:59:51 RMT strike day announced for saturday 13th May.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on April 27, 2023, 18:45:41 RMT strike day announced for saturday 13th May. The date of Army v Navy at Twickenham. Highlight of many veterans year..... The ASLEF/RMT bruvvers have really thought these dates through haven't they? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on April 27, 2023, 18:47:10 Bullets dodged thus far for my travel to the Isle of Man on 16th/17th May. ASLEF's overtime ban between 15th-20th May will hopefully not affect me. Depot drivers only for SWR and Grand Central aren't affected at all. Enough padding in my schedule from Shipley to Heysham on the 17th if there's service disruption on Northern Trains due to that overtime ban. Push comes to shove I can get a taxi from Lancaster station to the port.
Conceivably, my return journey could be affected if the RMT get a renewed six month mandate for strike action from the ballot result due on the 4th May. They do have to give 14 days notice of strike action so my outward travel on 16th/17th May can't be affected. I just hope they don't decide on 22nd May as a strike day if they get another mandate. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: CyclingSid on April 28, 2023, 06:55:10 Quote I suspect striking the day before Eurovision isn't going to go down well either, especially given the circumstances that Liverpool are hosting the event is because the winners last year, Ukraine can't. Doesn't look good in comparison with Ukrainian Railways.Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on May 04, 2023, 18:29:32 RMT have got another 6 month mandate for continued strike action against 14 TOCs.
Ballot results saw 91% vote yes. Average turnout across the TOCs was 70% From the RMT (https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-members-overwhelmingly-back-further-strike-action/) Quote 4 May 2023 RMT Press Office: RAIL union RMT announced the results of a re-ballot of members working for 14 train operating companies today which massively re-affirmed a mandate for further strike action. All the ballots passed the 50 per cent participation threshold imposed by the government’s anti-trade union laws and included massive votes for further strike action. RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said that the overwhelming backing for further strike action across 14 train operating companies was a de-facto referendum on the dispute. “It is clear from these results that members are not prepared to accept a pay offer based on mass job cuts and major attacks on their terms and conditions. “This sends a clear message to the employers that the huge anger amongst rail workers is very real and they need to recognise that fact, face reality and make improved proposals. “They need to get around the table with RMT and negotiate in good faith for a better deal for rail workers,” he said. The breakdown of the votes at each TOC was: (https://images2.imgbox.com/55/af/69fPkpj8_o.jpg) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on May 04, 2023, 18:56:58 That certainly is an overwhelming mandate, not much changed from the previous ballot.
Now we wait to see what the RMT Executive do next with regards to industrial action. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on May 04, 2023, 20:35:46 Wasn’t the previous mandate across 16 TOCs, or is my memory faulty?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on May 04, 2023, 20:42:31 Wasn’t the previous mandate across 16 TOCs, or is my memory faulty? Previous mandate in November 2022 was 14 TOCs, but it also included Network Rail. RMT staff at Network Rail settled back in March. https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-renews-national-rail-strike-mandate-for-another-6-months/ Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on May 06, 2023, 06:32:41 From Left Foot Forward (https://leftfootforward.org/2023/05/transport-secretary-called-out-over-rail-dispute-mistruths-on-bbc-question-time/) (the name of the publication suggests a particular political position)
Quote The transport secretary Mark Harper has been accused of “muddying the waters” by presenting misleading narratives in the rail dispute, on BBC Question Time last night. When answering questions on resolving the rail strikes, Mark Harper attempted to shirk responsibility by referring to train drivers pay and unused ticket offices. It comes as the RMT union smashed their latest mandate for strike action, meaning members working for 14 train operating companies could strike again over the next six months. It is their third mandate in the National Rail Dispute, with the latest receiving a 91% yes vote. Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said the mandate sends a clear message to employers of the “huge anger” amongst rail workers. Speaking about the rail disputes and supposed job losses of ticket staff, Harper said people do not buy tickets from ticket offices anymore and that they are not needed. Peter Hitchens, an English conservative author, who has been referred to as an “unlikely union man” since his appearance on the show last night, blasted Harper for deflecting the issue and questioned if this had really been agreed. I note though * 91% is a significant vote at a third mandate * It's very hard for me to buy a ticket from my local ticket office when there isn't one. That's why I don't buy from the ticket office - I can't! People I speak with in my Town Council role tell me that one of the things that puts them off using the train is not understanding the ticketing and fare and car parking payment systems that a real live person could help them resolve. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 08:11:55 From Left Foot Forward (https://leftfootforward.org/2023/05/transport-secretary-called-out-over-rail-dispute-mistruths-on-bbc-question-time/) (the name of the publication suggests a particular political position) Quote The transport secretary Mark Harper has been accused of “muddying the waters” by presenting misleading narratives in the rail dispute, on BBC Question Time last night. When answering questions on resolving the rail strikes, Mark Harper attempted to shirk responsibility by referring to train drivers pay and unused ticket offices. It comes as the RMT union smashed their latest mandate for strike action, meaning members working for 14 train operating companies could strike again over the next six months. It is their third mandate in the National Rail Dispute, with the latest receiving a 91% yes vote. Mick Lynch, RMT general secretary said the mandate sends a clear message to employers of the “huge anger” amongst rail workers. Speaking about the rail disputes and supposed job losses of ticket staff, Harper said people do not buy tickets from ticket offices anymore and that they are not needed. Peter Hitchens, an English conservative author, who has been referred to as an “unlikely union man” since his appearance on the show last night, blasted Harper for deflecting the issue and questioned if this had really been agreed. I note though * 91% is a significant vote at a third mandate * It's very hard for me to buy a ticket from my local ticket office when there isn't one. That's why I don't buy from the ticket office - I can't! People I speak with in my Town Council role tell me that one of the things that puts them off using the train is not understanding the ticketing and fare and car parking payment systems that a real live person could help them resolve. Then the answer is to simplify the ticketing and fare system, not sustain a necessity to employ people to explain it. Over 80% of tickets are now purchased online, via ticket machines or other means such as tap in/out. We will never return to the previous situation. It is absurd to suggest that the railways should not recognise and act on this. It isn't right to close every ticket office but neither is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo. Provision must be made for those that need help and this can be achieved via getting people out of ticket offices into a wider ranging customer service role, on the platform/concourse/gateline. I think the Unions are correct on issues like DOO however it is correct to challenge their total intransigence on this one. (And yes, as you and the name suggest, there are more objective sources than "Left Foot Forward") :) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Fourbee on May 06, 2023, 09:00:13 Provision must be made for those that need help and this can be achieved via getting people out of ticket offices into a wider ranging customer service role, on the platform/concourse/gateline. Depending on the station setup, wouldn't another situation to get people out from "behind the glass" be just to remove the glass? That way people can still be served in turn rather than potentially swamping them in a random order on the station?Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Clan Line on May 06, 2023, 15:20:59 ...................... is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo. Just how long did it take to get rid of "firemen" (under various other names) on diesel/electric locos. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 06, 2023, 16:19:17 ...................... is it right to insist, as the Trade Unions do, that there must be no change to the status quo. Just how long did it take to get rid of "firemen" (under various other names) on diesel/electric locos. I don't know........years? decades? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: froome on May 10, 2023, 19:30:51 We were originally planning on travelling on Friday up to mid Wales to a friend's celebration there, and have accommodation booked. With the uncertainty about whether any trains will be running on either Friday or Saturday, we have now decided to travel tomorrow and stay an extra night.
However, my question is about bustitution on strike days, as our journey would have involved using this (between Shrewsbury and Machynlleth). If it isn't known well in advance whether a train service can be run to link with this service, is the bustitution automatically cancelled, or is it retained 'just in case'? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on May 10, 2023, 21:08:44 Usually cancelled if no rail services are running
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Ollie on May 11, 2023, 01:18:20 Transport for Wales aren't part of the dispute. Any rail replacement to cover their service should be running as normal.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on May 13, 2023, 12:47:19 I notice that after have a limited service between Plymouth - Penzance for today advertised nearly all week on the GWR strike page it's gone this morning..
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2023, 08:23:07 From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful.
It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there. It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence! ;) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: stuving on May 14, 2023, 11:56:25 From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful. It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there. It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence! ;) SWR did very much concentrate their limited resources on serving Twickenham (though ran as many trains via the Hounslow loop for some reason). So Windsor was about the only place to the west you get get there from, or via London along the main line from Salisbury or Farnborough (for Aldershot). Nothing ran from near Portsmouth ... favouritism? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 14, 2023, 16:06:14 From what I could see South Western's reduced timetable held up pretty well yesterday, I went to Twickenham from Windsor for the Army v Navy match - virtually normal service in the morning but an early finish to services for which my liver at least was grateful. It was easy to see that others had been affected however as the crowd was much smaller than usual - the RFU said 51,000 but it didn't seem like that many were there. It was clear that train services from Liverpool had been particularly badly affected as the National Anthem was impeccably observed without any booing or jeering in evidence! ;) SWR did very much concentrate their limited resources on serving Twickenham (though ran as many trains via the Hounslow loop for some reason). So Windsor was about the only place to the west you get get there from, or via London along the main line from Salisbury or Farnborough (for Aldershot). Nothing ran from near Portsmouth ... favouritism? Yes ironically we were talking to a few people from Pompey many of whose friends had decided to give it a miss - hadn't thought of that though! :) The good news is - the RFU have announced that those who weren't able to make it to Twickenham yesterday due to the RMT strike can use their tickets for the corresponding fixture next season - a nice gesture. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on May 18, 2023, 17:11:23 RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 18, 2023, 17:18:51 RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June. Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they? Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support All those Mancunians who changed their FA Cup travel plans due to the strike on June 3 are now stuffed again..... Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 16:14:13 RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June. Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they? Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support You have to ask what difference public support is making now the dispute(s) has been going on for ages. It doesn’t seem to be much of a factor (or consideration) any more from the ‘muppets’ on either side of the dispute…if indeed it ever was? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2023, 16:48:51 RMT announces strike action Friday 2 June. Oh my word they really are muppets aren't they? Or at least they're totally indifferent to public support You have to ask what difference public support is making now the dispute(s) has been going on for ages. It doesn’t seem to be much of a factor (or consideration) any more from the ‘muppets’ on either side of the dispute…if indeed it ever was? Fair points. I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 17:36:19 I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) I think that’s true, but only partially true. The phrase ‘best and final offer’ has been used several times only for a better offer to then materialise soon after. Sure, the better offer is nowhere near what the Unions are demanding, but they are improved offers nonetheless. If at some point it becomes clear it really is a best and final offer then I would expect staff to fairly quickly accept that fact and settle. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 19, 2023, 17:59:31 I guess as far as the Unions are concerned it generates more headlines and keeps them in the News, although the Government know that overall the rail strike is causing only inconvenience rather than any serious disruption so are content to let it run on until it peters out................I suspect a face saving solution for both sides will be found at some stage that enables them both to claim victory (......that's the Unions and the Government, not City and United!!!) I think that’s true, but only partially true. The phrase ‘best and final offer’ has been used several times only for a better offer to then materialise soon after. Sure, the better offer is nowhere near what the Unions are demanding, but they are improved offers nonetheless. If at some point it becomes clear it really is a best and final offer then I would expect staff to fairly quickly accept that fact and settle. Provided of course they are given the chance to vote on accepting it, rather than Bruvver Mick and co deciding for them? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on May 19, 2023, 18:42:04 Yes, though I don’t think there has been an offer yet that would have been accepted that hasn’t been put to the membership. But it would be interesting to know how close these offers are.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on May 31, 2023, 17:14:36 Despite tomorrow (1/6) not being a strike day, looking at the map/Journeycheck services seem to be pretty badly clobbered.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on May 31, 2023, 19:17:47 There is action tomorrow short of a strike by ASLEF - so no uncontracted overtime or rest-day working
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TonyN on June 01, 2023, 21:34:47 Today's Times cartoon
https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peter-brookes-times-cartoon-june-1-2023-7dl0bcc9t (https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/peter-brookes-times-cartoon-june-1-2023-7dl0bcc9t) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 02, 2023, 07:00:24 Behind their paywall
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on June 02, 2023, 07:21:16 Behind their paywall You can get a brief glimpse before the paywall comes up. It's a [presumed] commuter asking an AI bot how soon before it can drive a train. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 02, 2023, 10:21:23 A.I. already drives some trains of course, and in theory it could drive all of them with technology that already exists. And the same can be said for pilots and planes.
Whether the public will ever accept there being no driver when hurtling through the countryside is a different matter. I think it will become a generational thing as we get more used to A.I. and in a couple of generations it will have become normalised. I see A.I. as a potential threat to humanity over the coming decades. It’s adapting incredibly quickly…just look at ChatGPT and recent updates to Photoshop which threatens to make lots of forms of photography and videography obsolete. You simply won’t be able to tell what’s real and what’s fake very soon…which could be very dangerous. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 02, 2023, 17:12:50 Another voice of the RMT on the Ukraine situation - it's not just Dempsey and Lynch giving Putin a free pass, apparently it's war crimes and American vehicles "invading Russian territory" now.............one does wonder which planet these people inhabit..........and what RMT members think of their Leadership's rather bizarre take on events..........
https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1664555018848989187?s=20 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: broadgage on June 02, 2023, 18:25:19 Support for then communist russia, was taken for granted by the more left wing trades unions during the cold war.
The facts that we won the the cold war, and that russia is no longer communist have obviously not yet penetrated the minds of the bruvvers. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on June 14, 2023, 12:10:39 Paul Clifton reporting that Train Drivers have voted overwhelmingly to continue industrial action:
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1668937816150093830 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 14, 2023, 14:27:00 Includes ALL SWR drivers too this time, not just their depot drivers....
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ray951 on June 14, 2023, 15:57:16 It was Albert Einstein, apparently, who said that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results.
The RMT TOC strikes have been going on for a year now and don't seem to be any closer to resolution, so by voting for more strikes what are the union and their members expecting to change? It appears that the Government don't care about the railways and are just ignoring the unions and passengers just shrug their shoulders and make alternative arrangements, which may include not travelling by train again. So is there anything that the RMT and ASLEF could do to change this situation? Maybe an all-out strike would work, although I have been doubts given the lack of interest from the Government who would probably just use it as an excuse to close the railways down (or at least some of it) , or should they just cut their losses and accept what they have been offered? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 14, 2023, 19:33:06 I think a change of tactic is likely. Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action. I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on June 14, 2023, 20:18:46 I think a change of tactic is likely. Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action. I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see. Barbecues all round, bruvvers and sistahs! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 15, 2023, 06:59:09 I think a change of tactic is likely. Either an indefinite RDW/favours ban or an escalation of the number of days of action. I think the RDW/favours ban is more likely, as that will cause huge disruption over summer weekends, but we will see. Given that there is generally huge disruption over summer weekends, I doubt customers expectations are high in any case? I think that given the relatively low impact on business/the public, the Government are ready to tough this one out and the Unions should realise this - perhaps there will be some cosmetic face saving concession made to the Unions to facilitate this in order to allow some banner waving and fist pumping by the Micks before postponing the revolution for now and getting back to work. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 15, 2023, 10:55:47 As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off.
Potential disruption over weekends would be much worse than any of the usual crew shortages. Sunday, so far, has not been used as a tactic by any of the unions. If ‘action short of a strike’ took place, and all HSS drivers were to make themselves unavailable and LTV drivers only worked their committed ones, there would be very few Sunday services operating, instead of the 90-95% that typically run on a ‘bad’ summer Sunday. Saturday/Weekday timetables would also probably have to be altered. Though eventually a concession is a likely final scenario of course. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 15, 2023, 11:05:14 As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off. Is the 90% figure reflecting the total membership, or is it 90% of those who voted? What was the turnout? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on June 15, 2023, 11:11:14 As long as the mandate for action stays strong (the recent ASLEF results are virtually identical to previous ones at around a 90% support for strikes) then I think ‘postponing the revolution’ will remain some way off. Is the 90% figure reflecting the total membership, or is it 90% of those who voted? What was the turnout? https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-overwhelming-support-continued-industrial-action Quote Great Western Railway Are you prepared to take part in industrial action consisting of a strike? YES 1044 (90.63%) NO 108 (9.37%) Are you prepared to take part in industrial action short of a strike? YES 1105 (96.17%) NO 44 (3.83%) Turnout: 78.45% Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 15, 2023, 11:16:44 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 15, 2023, 11:25:12 There appears to be no ballot results shown in that ASLEF press release for Chiltern. I wonder why?
Also, of those shown, only GTR Thameslink seems to be losing support for strike action, now down to 85% Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 15:58:54 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO. It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ellendune on June 16, 2023, 16:24:23 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO. It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line? I may have got this wrong, but my recollection was not that it had to be unconditional, but it must not depend on unspecified and unknown conditions that had not been negotiated. Something on the lines of accept "x% and you agree to any change in conditions we might dream up in the next few months". That is very different. I wouldn't accept a deal which had conditions that did not know about. Would you? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 16:36:49 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO. It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line? I may have got this wrong, but my recollection was not that it had to be unconditional, but it must not depend on unspecified and unknown conditions that had not been negotiated. Something on the lines of accept "x% and you agree to any change in conditions we might dream up in the next few months". That is very different. I wouldn't accept a deal which had conditions that did not know about. Would you? I refer you to replies 548, 549, 552 & 554 on this very thread. This will help too (3rd para) https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Red Squirrel on June 16, 2023, 16:39:34 Do we think that either party actually wants to resolve this dispute?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 16:46:57 Do we think that either party actually wants to resolve this dispute? Fair point and good question. I don't think the Government is too bothered as it's having very little effect beyond inconvenience and isn't going to lose them many votes - people are simply finding alternatives. Of the Unions, Lynch is happy to use it as a vehicle for his own profile & political grandstanding - he's clearly enjoying the attention. In many ways, two cheeks of the same arse? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 16, 2023, 17:19:07 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO. It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line? To my knowledge ASLEF have never made any demand that a pay rise would be “unconditional”. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2023, 18:13:58 A light drop in turnout which was 84% last time, but support does still remain very strong. Whether that will be the case if there’s a re-ballot in six months remains far from certain IMHO. It may be easier to find a compromise (in the case of the RMT) if the somewhat boneheaded insistence by the Union of an "unconditional" pay rise is dropped. They are going to have to accept that getting something for nothing is not going to happen - perhaps as you have suggested clarification on which ticket offices are to go and which remain would be useful and something which may provide something to work on - if a significant/greater than expected number remain open it may be something Bruvver Mick could present as a "victory" which along with perhaps a very slight increase in the pay offer would get it over the line? To my knowledge ASLEF have never made any demand that a pay rise would be “unconditional”. That would be why I stated specifically "in the case of the RMT" Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ellendune on June 16, 2023, 21:09:32 I refer you to replies 548, 549, 552 & 554 on this very thread. This will help too (3rd para) https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute Unfortunately if you select the option to have the most recent posts at the top they are numbered from the top. So it is very difficult to identify which posts you refer to. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 17, 2023, 00:48:03 That would be why I stated specifically "in the case of the RMT" For some reason you quoted my post about the ASLEF ballot to make that point so I was taking the opportunity to clarify that ASLEF haven’t made that demand as of yet. For the record, I agree that it’s a ridiculous demand from the RMT, though I haven’t heard it made recently, and the article you quoted at https://www.itv.com/news/2023-02-10/rmt-union-rejects-latest-dreadful-offer-amid-rail-dispute is from February and concerned the now settled dispute with Network Rail. IIRC the settlement was not unconditional. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on June 19, 2023, 12:09:19 ASLEF announces an overtime ban will take place the first week of July 3-8
https://twitter.com/PaulCliftonBBC/status/1670746046706663424 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 19, 2023, 12:24:36 Second week of Wimbledon....
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: BBM on June 19, 2023, 16:09:20 Second week of Wimbledon.... First week actually, it looks like it's later this year (but the strikes will still be a pain for spectators): https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/schedule.html (https://www.wimbledon.com/en_GB/atoz/schedule.html) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 19, 2023, 17:57:01 There is no strike action announced yet. This is a week of withdrawal of non-contractual overtime.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 19, 2023, 18:00:25 Indeed, no one would walk out for that length of time earning that sort of money
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 22, 2023, 16:02:21 BBC News - Rail union announces three days of strikes in July
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65986714 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on June 22, 2023, 16:14:01 Thursday & 2 Saturdays
20, 22 & 29 July. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2023, 18:16:05 Could raise the stakes a bit if the rumours turn out to be true......
https://www.rmt.org.uk/news/rmt-statement-on-the-future-of-ticket-offices/ Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 26, 2023, 19:28:46 Some clarity of their intentions will be good to have.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 26, 2023, 19:40:25 Some clarity of their intentions will be good to have. Article in The Guardian; https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/26/closure-most-uk-railway-station-ticket-offices-start-weeks?CMP=share_btn_tw&s=09 Cites 1000 ticket offices but emphasises staff moving from behind a screen to other, customer service roles And the FT https://www.ft.com/content/5a5bfe22-224b-4a9a-8e8c-f77a41d24e93 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Bob_Blakey on June 27, 2023, 09:56:43 According to the Grauniad report the DfT/RDG say that closing 'about 1000' ticket offices will, amongst other things, save costs. How so? Presumably all the target offices are located within the existing railway station estate so getting rid of them won't save much, if anything, in building and/or rental costs. Maybe a slight reduction in overall power usage if the vacated spaces are not repurposed and somebody remembers to turn off the lights! As I understand it the bosses plan to move all the ticketing staff to 'roaming the station' passenger assistance roles on the same pay rates and with no compulsory redundancies so I fail to see where any HR savings will come from.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 27, 2023, 11:31:00 Cites 1000 ticket offices… Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide? That would be a big mistake IMHO. How many should close IMHO? Some? Yes. Over half? Probably. All of them? No! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 27, 2023, 14:53:16 Cites 1000 ticket offices… Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide? That would be a big mistake IMHO. How many should close IMHO? Some? Yes. Over half? Probably. All of them? No! Agreed. Imagine the scene..... "Tell you what Mick, strikes aren't getting you anywhere, even the Nurses have called it a day........we've said 1000 but we'll call it 750, bung you an extra 0.5% this year, you can bask in reflected glory and march everyone back to work......deal?" Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on June 27, 2023, 17:42:27 Cites 1000 ticket offices… Which, I think, is ALL ticket offices country wide? That would be a big mistake IMHO. How many should close IMHO? Some? Yes. Over half? Probably. All of them? No! Yes - from a year ago in The Yorkshire Post (https://www.yorkshirepost.co.uk/news/politics/secret-plan-to-close-every-railway-ticket-office-in-england-to-save-ps500m-373707) Quote All 980 railway station ticket offices in England could close with physical train tickets axed under plans to save up to £500m. The Sunday Times has reported that the rail industry has drawn up a confidential strategy to close or "repurpose" all ticket offices in England, starting the closure programme in September and someone asked what the saving would be Quote 'Secret plan' to close every railway ticket office in England to save £500m Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on June 27, 2023, 18:34:23 Imagine the scene..... "Tell you what Mick, strikes aren't getting you anywhere, even the Nurses have called it a day........we've said 1000 but we'll call it 750, bung you an extra 0.5% this year, you can bask in reflected glory and march everyone back to work......deal?" We’ll have to get you a job at ACAS. ;) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 02, 2023, 09:14:55 Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 02, 2023, 09:41:08 Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans? I am taking the precaution of NOT promoting the 08:45 Swindon to Weymouth and 19:40 Weymouth to Swindon through services to the general public next Saturday - a mental risk assessment suggests it would be unwise to do so. It IS being promoted as the West Wiltshire Rail User Group summer outing; apart from Melksham, there are alternative services from and to the other West Wilts stations, and I have emergency mitigation options in place to get a handful of Melksham people home without having to wait for GWR to find alternative transport. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 02, 2023, 14:24:25 Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans? BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122 Quote Among the disruption expected: South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur. It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 02, 2023, 14:56:40 Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans? BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122 Quote Among the disruption expected: South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur. It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice. Very difficult for GWR to give any timely notice as this will vary daily, ie any uncovered jobs will vary every day as will your spare cover. You can’t roster a Paddington driver to cover a Bristol turn but on the day, you can use that Paddington based driver to partially cover a Bristol turn. Basically you could provide a list of cancellations now, but come the day, it’ll all change. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 02, 2023, 16:19:20 Still nothing on the GWR website giving details of services during this week's ASOS by ASLEF beyond advice that "short notice alterations and cancellations can be expected".............is this likely to be as specific as the advice will get or will revised journey planners be published (as the website suggests, but we're getting rather close to allow people to change their plans? BBC says at https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66059122 Quote Among the disruption expected: South Western Railway says it will run a reduced timetable with some first and last trains cancelled. Its services are likely to be busier than usual, and customers heading to the Wimbledon tennis championships are being advised to allow extra time for their journeys Northern is advising passengers to expect some services to start later and finish earlier than usual, as well as short-notice cancellations Great Western Railway expects some short-notice alterations or cancellations, and says its Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction until Sunday Chiltern Railways is warning customers only to travel if absolutely essential on Saturday. Its trains will not stop at the station by Wembley Stadium, which is hosting a concert by Blur. It specifically says short notice and on that basis they seem to be saying that GWR are not giving customers timeous notice. Very difficult for GWR to give any timely notice as this will vary daily, ie any uncovered jobs will vary every day as will your spare cover. You can’t roster a Paddington driver to cover a Bristol turn but on the day, you can use that Paddington based driver to partially cover a Bristol turn. Basically you could provide a list of cancellations now, but come the day, it’ll all change. Many thanks that's useful background information. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on July 03, 2023, 06:50:31 From GWR Journeycheck:
Quote Cancellations to services on all routes Due to industrial action fewer trains are able to run on all lines. Train services running across the whole Great Western Railway network may be cancelled or revised. Disruption is expected until the end of the day on 08/07/23. Customer Advice There will be disruption from Monday 3 to Saturday 8 July due to industrial action short of a strike by the Aslef union. This action short of strike is likely to cause some short-notice alterations or cancellations. Please check your journey before setting out. During action short of a strike and the days after strikes, services could also be affected by a limited number of short-notice cancellations and alterations. The Night Riviera Sleeper service will not run in either direction from Sunday 2 July until Friday 7 July, resuming on Sunday 9 July. Online journey planners are being updated. If you intend to travel where trains are running, please check before you travel. Trains that are operating will be busier than usual because we will not be able to offer the normal service frequency. Other train operators are also affected by this action, so onward travel could also be affected. Where we are able to run services, they are expected to be extremely busy and we are not able to provide bus replacement services. Customers who purchased tickets but did not travel can claim a full refund, or can amend their ticket; those who travelled and are delayed may be entitled to Delay Repay compensation if they are delayed by 15 minutes or more. To help customers, tickets for strike days will be valid for travel on alternative days on GWR services, further details will to be provided soon. Season-ticket holders can apply for compensation through the Delay Repay scheme. Our Refund policy remains in place. If you hold a return ticket, you can claim a refund of your unused full fare, even if only one leg of your journey is affected. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 07:12:47 I can only see one cancellation so far as a result of “industrial action” and that’s the:
0540 Bristol TM to Penzance. GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 03, 2023, 07:33:24 I can only see one cancellation so far as a result of “industrial action” and that’s the: 0540 Bristol TM to Penzance. GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime. Take a look at the TransWilts thread - over 10% cancellations due to industrial action. Of course, 10% of an already thin service is just a couple of trains, And of course any cancellation leaves a long gap. Another story over the weekend of what this can mean to someone who struggles in the first place, and who's story I have permission to share: Quote That damage is going to take months, if not a year, to repair. I now have to build myself back up all over again, and it's because someone in an office somewhere decided "Yeah, cancel the Westbury service. Don't bother putting anything else on for the people stranded by that decision." Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2023, 08:19:13 GWR really aren’t heavily reliant on overtime. I would expect it to get worse as the week goes on. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Wizard on July 03, 2023, 08:29:31 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 08:36:28 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’. Obviously the picture is changing as the day progresses. Some will be cancelled, some amended and some will be reinstated. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 03, 2023, 08:36:44 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’. 7 of the cancellations and a similar number of the part cancellations are Portsmouth/Cardiff if my maths are correct - long distance London to the Westcountry/Wales not looking too bad. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 09:36:56 7 of the cancellations and a similar number of the part cancellations are Portsmouth/Cardiff if my maths are correct - long distance London to the Westcountry/Wales not looking too bad. And that may relate to just 1 or 2 depots that are short staffed Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on July 03, 2023, 10:52:49 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’. As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 11:12:05 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’. As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.Looking at the bigger picture, GWR isn’t fairing too badly compared against some of the other operators today. With more drivers currently in training I can only see todays cancellations reducing over the next 6 months. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 03, 2023, 11:54:35 Another week of an ASLEF non-contractual overtime ban now announced from 17th-22nd July inclusive.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on July 03, 2023, 12:22:26 Another week of an ASLEF non-contractual overtime ban now announced from 17th-22nd July inclusive. Coinciding with RMT strike days on 20th & 22nd. The latter of which will be very affected I suspect. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on July 03, 2023, 20:41:39 This has appeared on twitter from a driver's account
(https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F0H23QSWIAMV-yA?format=jpg&name=large) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on July 03, 2023, 22:00:01 The sad fact of that offer is that if they stopped at this:
The proposal comprises a two-year pay offer which provides for a 4% increase in year one (including retrospective pay) and a further increase of 4% in year two This would have been settled a long time ago. The changes to the terms and conditions aren’t, in my opinion, going to make any significant cost savings. Significant cost savings can only be achieved by altering the structure of the franchising system, and that will never happen because that would be accepting privatisation has failed. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: MVR S&T on July 03, 2023, 22:10:32 I and most I talk to have lost the trust of the trains to get them to their destinations, let alone get them back, commuting has changed for ever too, wake up industry and unions, please.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 04, 2023, 18:06:22 Journeycheck currently shows 20 cancellations and 27 part cancellations, the vast majority are due to ‘industrial action’. As at 10.50, 38 cancellations related to Industrial action.Looking at the bigger picture, GWR isn’t fairing too badly compared against some of the other operators today. With more drivers currently in training I can only see todays cancellations reducing over the next 6 months. I got the 1129 from Reading-Plymouth today, despite all the warnings given due to the ASLEF action it was on time and normally loaded.......notwithstanding the problems caused by the points issues near Bristol today, the effect of the industrial action on longer distance services seems to be pretty minimal so far and mainly restricted to branch/smaller lines? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: NickB on July 05, 2023, 14:05:38 1hr 40mins to get from paddington to Maidenhead last night.
Arrived at paddington 17.10 17.20 cancelled at last minute Waited for 17.50 Platform for 17.50 dangerously overcrowded 17.50 turns engine and lights off. No announcement made about intention to run. Transfer to Elizabeth Line to catch 18.00 18.00 runs slightly late, arriving at Maidenhead 18.50 I can’t wait to go back tomorrow. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 05, 2023, 17:51:51 1hr 40mins to get from paddington to Maidenhead last night. Arrived at paddington 17.10 17.20 cancelled at last minute Waited for 17.50 Platform for 17.50 dangerously overcrowded 17.50 turns engine and lights off. No announcement made about intention to run. Transfer to Elizabeth Line to catch 18.00 18.00 runs slightly late, arriving at Maidenhead 18.50 I can’t wait to go back tomorrow. Better off sticking to the Elizabeth Line. Unaffected by the Industrial action. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: NickB on July 05, 2023, 20:30:26 I think that’s a good plan.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 06, 2023, 18:12:07 Bruvver Mick's getting the Underground in on the act now.......
https://news.sky.com/story/rmt-announces-strikes-on-london-underground-later-this-month-12916339 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2023, 15:56:36 .....more tilting at windmills announced....
https://news.sky.com/story/fresh-overtime-ban-at-height-of-summer-holidays-announced-by-train-drivers-in-aslef-union-12922273 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on July 17, 2023, 17:04:07 Might be slightly more effective what with the holiday season upon us - there may be more drivers off that need cover
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 17, 2023, 17:52:41 Might be slightly more effective what with the holiday season upon us - there may be more drivers off that need cover Effective in creating inconvenience for the public, totally ineffective in securing any more for their members. ......and probably more than slightly more effective in making people choose the car rather than the train. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: trainbuff on July 18, 2023, 20:19:05 The sad fact of that offer is that if they stopped at this: The proposal comprises a two-year pay offer which provides for a 4% increase in year one (including retrospective pay) and a further increase of 4% in year two This would have been settled a long time ago. The changes to the terms and conditions aren’t, in my opinion, going to make any significant cost savings. Significant cost savings can only be achieved by altering the structure of the franchising system, and that will never happen because that would be accepting privatisation has failed. The same with RMT too. Its the conditions being ripped up that matter Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on July 18, 2023, 20:37:13 What I find annoying is the double standards being employed by the TOCs (or should I say, the DfT, or should I say the Tory Government).
The TSSA Union voted to accept the pay deal on the condition that the changes to T&Cs would be negotiated in 'Year 2' as suggested by the TOCs. However, because of the collective bargaining agreement, this has not been honoured for non-management grades because the RMT rejected the same deal. Now, despite the fact that the Unions have rejected the changes to T&Cs, the TOCs are still pressing ahead with them. So, you can't have your pay rise that you accepted because some of your colleagues rejected it, but we are still pressing ahead with changes to the T&Cs even though you rejected it! Double standards, or what? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on July 28, 2023, 15:03:48 《Was misinformed.》
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2023, 08:39:41 Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 29, 2023, 09:05:35 Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses. Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution? Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 29, 2023, 09:14:27 Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses. Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution? Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel? Couldn't agree more. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on July 29, 2023, 10:33:06 It appears that we haven't yet recorded that ASLEF has announced a further week of overtime/rest day working ban from 7 to 12 August.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: PhilWakely on July 29, 2023, 10:40:13 Bruvver Lynch currently on the BBC - refusing to give a figure for what represents an acceptable pay rise and also that the Government are not telling the truth re: Ticket office staff moving from behind the glass to platforms/concourses. Is it just me ... or are we getting further from a solution to industrial action on the railways rather than working towards a solution? Who is thinking for and standing up for those of us who want to travel? I think the main problems here are that the TOCs don't really care as they receive the same 'management fee' from the Government regardless of the number of services being run and the Government is hell bent on destroying the Unions. So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 15:27:36 Happy to be corrected, but I can't recall Mr Mayor being similarly "extremely concerned" over the numerous other events to which people have struggled to get to as a result of the RMT/ASLEF Industrial action?
https://www.gaytimes.co.uk/life/mayor-of-london-extremely-concerned-over-brighton-pride-train-disruptions/ Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 30, 2023, 15:33:03 So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay. Indeed. Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI. I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down. Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 15:56:02 So, it is unlikely that a compromise solution will be reached in the near future. The disputes are more than just ticket offices and pay. Indeed. Don't think there's any talks currently taking place at the moment, despite both unions being open to them AIUI. I said before that I think both unions have to 'go big' if they want to try and force a resolution, but with that strategy comes the risk of the action breaking down. Don't think the Government will have any problems riding the wave at the current level of action, and may use it to justify forcing the operators to make further cuts in the future...on board catering is the next obvious one...along with fleet sizes and number of trains run. I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything. You're right about the current level of action and the Unions are on the back foot - as it stands causing inconvenience at worst and can easily be rode out by the Government - virtually indefinitely - after all it's over a year already. I would like to think that, from somewhere, a few more quid will be found to add to the pay rise on offer (although Bruvver Mick is now saying that the strike isn't about pay), and combined with the lower number of closures and some level of future assurances about cuts this will be enough for him to save face and call it off - similarly ASLEF I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on July 30, 2023, 16:12:24 I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry. An all out strike? No, me neither. Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on July 30, 2023, 16:39:35 I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry. An all out strike? No, me neither. Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal. That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway. One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that? Personally I'd lock both sides in the room with nothing more than an occasional visit from a GWR catering trolley for sustenance ("sorry, no sandwiches, they didn't get loaded") - if that doesn't produce results, I don't know what would!!! :D Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 30, 2023, 17:28:35 I suspect the consultation will lead to a lower number of ticket offices being closed - probably around the number the Government/Industry intended in the first place, but presentation will be everything. There are 9 quoted in the consultation as selling over 200,000 tickets a year from the ticket office, and a further 8 selling between 100,000 and 200,000. A further 5 are only a cruel fraction below 100,000. Saving around a quarter of ticket offices - which that is - would probably account for between 80% and 90% of the tickets sold, and people of all views could claim a degree of victory. Yes - this might be what was intended to be the outcome in the first place Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on July 30, 2023, 18:34:55 I genuinely hope/don't think that either of the Micks would go for an all out strike - it would play exactly into the Government's hands and would be catastrophic for the industry. An all out strike? No, me neither. Though I think they need to escalate to force one last slightly better deal, and each doing every other Saturday indefinitely (or 6pm Friday to 6pm Saturday), so that every Saturday is affected, would be one way of doing that along with an indefinite overtime/RDW withdrawal. That's an idea but it provides very little additional leverage - apart from upsetting leisure travellers who are the future of the railway. One of the reasons (possibly the main reason) why the action to date, despite its longevity, has been so weak in terms of influencing the Government is the negligible effect it's had on the economy/business - focussing action on the weekends is unlikely to change that? The football season starts next week (Including the FA Charity Shield at Wembley), and the Premier League the following week. II's idea would upset a lot of fans each week....it may have legs to produce a change of heart by say, when the clocks go back. Gridlock on the roads each weekend as all the fans take to the roads.... Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on July 31, 2023, 02:04:36 (https://i.ibb.co/fQX6CMS/Screenshot-2023-07-31-02-02-00-224-com-guardian.jpg)
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on July 31, 2023, 05:38:50 Many a true word written in jest, I'm afraid.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 03, 2023, 16:59:27 My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal?
I've just returned from a few days in Cheltenham (about 20 mins late into Reading today from Cheltenham Spa), but looking at the departure boards at Reading on my return things seemed pretty much normal. I get that the effect may be greater elsewhere in the country, but with this (relatively speaking) minor level of disruption, do the Unions really expect the Government/RDG to change their position, without (as others have suggested) a pretty major escalation in the level of action? All the Unions seem to be achieving at the moment is their members losing money, and a few more customers drifting away from the railway. There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 03, 2023, 17:14:27 There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind? Didn't ASLEF bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago? Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO but a definite change of tactic. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 03, 2023, 18:01:24 There is the famous saying about the definition of madness being doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results..............I wonder if the Unions should bear that in mind? Didn't ASLEF bear it in mind when they altered their approach from sporadic days of strike action to block weeks of 'action short of a strike' a couple of months ago? Not enough to change the governments own strategy IMHO but a definite change of tactic. ...............from one ineffective tactic to another it would seem. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2023, 05:36:04 My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal? 90 or so today. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2023, 07:39:48 My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal? 90 or so today. GWR proclaiming a good service however! ::) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2023, 07:47:35 My perception of the latest overtime ban by ASLEF is that as far as GWR at least is concerned, whilst it's causing a few dozen cancellations/alterations each day the overall effect is pretty minimal? If you are using the Cancellations and Other Train Service Updates listed on Journeycheck to judge how effective the overtime ban has been on bringing disruption, then yes it doesn’t look too bad.However passenger experience on the trains this week, at certain times and on certain routes, would show that the overtime ban has been effective, particularly on local routes. A colleague has had real challenges getting into work this week with services cancelled every day this week during the morning rush hour. Some SW semifasts have also been cancelled this week putting extra strain on the already very busy WoE line. Today looks particularly grim, despite as you say GWR proclaiming a good service. Not if the train you are planning to travel on is cancelled it isn’t. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on August 04, 2023, 08:25:12 Today looks particularly grim, despite as you say GWR proclaiming a good service. Not if the train you are planning to travel on is cancelled it isn’t. I was planning to take the 09:10 today at the start of a series of "Staycation" days out. Next train in that direction - 11:31 and I wouldn't get to my planned destination until three hours after my plan. As I drove to Trowbridge the other evening, I listened to an interview with a marketing Guru who had set up his own agency, and he was explaining why he did not accept tobacco companies, even if they pleaded. "I would not promote a product I would not encourage my children to use" he said. And the approach is right. I find it increasingly difficult to persuade people to use / try the train. I was in Bradford-on-Avon yesterday, with a none-transport initiative. I drove ... and while I waited ("come back in 2 hours" type appointment) I walked up to the canalside tea room and bumped into a Facebook friend. "Did you come by bus or train, or cycle". No - I drove; family lifts involved and I was not going to put the family through the sparse services with none-connecting services along the way. B-o-A was a gridlock, and I only found a parking space in the third car park tried (and then it was the last space!) - so it's not as if we're still running on sparse Covid travel. And why was I listening to the radio in my car one the way to Trowbridge? I could have caught be bus down, and would have waited for the 20:12 train back after the meeting finished at 19:15. But waiting to 21:22 - over 2 hours after the end of the meeting - was not on, and the 20:12 train had been cancelled because GWR once again had no staff. GWR may talk of a good service. It may be good for their shareholders, and for perhaps for passengers on frequent services, but it's awful to the extent of being useless even to the railway's greatest fans where the potential passengers plan their days and have to rely on a specific train. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Mark A on August 04, 2023, 08:38:53 +1 to all that and sorry its disrupted your plans.
Also, I was thinking about the difference between a glance at the Coffeeshop's disruption map (looks this morning like artwork from a disturbed's child's therapy session) and the 'Signalbox' web site map of services (fairly orderly but with several orange/red symbols making their way patiently to their destinations). The difference being that 'Signalbox' is showing only trains that are running and can't represent cancellations (or part cancellations for that matter) so is only showing part of the story. If it's pulling GPS data, that'll be beyond its powers. A real time location map combined with deployment of a little pale grey 'Ghost train' symbol to mark a cancelled service would be one approach but this would become grossly inappropriate in the circumstances of a rail accident. Mark Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2023, 11:06:28 Interesting, yet depressing, to hear the impact on real people this action is having.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 04, 2023, 15:19:59 Interesting, yet depressing, to hear the impact on real people this action is having. True, and all with nothing being achieved. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on August 04, 2023, 15:40:45 True, and all with nothing being achieved. You get the impression the government are prepared to sit this one out and let Starmer deal with it after the election.Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2023, 08:25:25 Thankfully services between London and Cardiff don't seem to be too badly affected today - perhaps prioritised with Wales v England in Cardiff later today?
(equally thankfully I am going by road today - the post match queuing for trains in Cardiff is not something I'd want to experience again - especially in the current circumstances - and it's raining!!!) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on August 10, 2023, 11:57:39 Not sure this is the right place to post.
On journeycheck 06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40 06:00 London Paddington to Penzance due 11:40 will call additionally at Par. This is due to a shortage of train crew Sounds odd. Can understand missing stops, but additional stops? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 10, 2023, 12:39:05 It’ll be to allow drivers to change over. Normally it would be one driver working it through from Taunton to Penzance, but there’s a lot of ‘mixing and matching’ this week especially.
No fewer than six drivers have been allocated parts of that one diagram today. A recipe for disaster! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: a-driver on August 10, 2023, 14:09:25 It’ll be to allow drivers to change over. Normally it would be one driver working it through from Taunton to Penzance, but there’s a lot of ‘mixing and matching’ this week especially. No fewer than six drivers have been allocated parts of that one diagram today. A recipe for disaster! This is becoming the norm with diagramming these days. Back in the good old days, that service would have been worked by just two drivers with either a change at Exeter or Plymouth. Nowadays, a driver changes can occur at Reading, Westbury, Taunton, Exeter, Newton Abbot, Plymouth or Par A driver will hop off one train and work another 15 minutes later. Any slight delay and the problems are obvious. Barmy diagramming. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: plymothian on August 11, 2023, 15:43:21 RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 11, 2023, 16:03:13 RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September. Too tempting a target for Bruvver Mick to ignore wasn't it? More bullets in the feet. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 11, 2023, 17:01:01 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Marlburian on August 11, 2023, 20:51:57 And it's Reading Rock Festival, though by the Saturday most revellers will have arrived. Dunno how many travel by train on that day?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on August 12, 2023, 06:50:55 RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September. Cruise ship Ventura arrives back at Southampton on the 2nd September.Just tried to see from RTT what services were running Southampton to Brighton on their last strike Saturday, but the site doesn't go back that far unfortunately. Anyone 'just happen to remember' what/if any service ran then? :D Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on August 12, 2023, 08:27:40 RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September. Cruise ship Ventura arrives back at Southampton on the 2nd September.Just tried to see from RTT what services were running Southampton to Brighton on their last strike Saturday, but the site doesn't go back that far unfortunately. Anyone 'just happen to remember' what/if any service ran then? :D We returned into Southampton on a rail strike day ... Cross Country to Reading, Great Western to Bath, Faresaver to Melksham. Think it was a train at about 08:10 from Southampton Services quiet. We brought out own luggage off the ship (we usually do) to make it so early. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 12, 2023, 08:53:43 RMT strikes announced as Saturdays 26 August and 2 September. My plans to attend Rosslyn Park v Plymouth Albion on 2 September down the swannee............but a minor inconvenience compared to many. 30th day of RMT strikes since June 2022 To quote the Admin of the RailUK forum; "It's not going to make any difference to anything, except push people onto the roads and put them off rail". Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 18, 2023, 10:47:50 More ASLEF action announced. One strike day and one overtime withdrawal day:
Friday 1st September: Strike Day Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Friday 1st September that run into Saturday 2nd September. Saturday 2nd September: Overtime Withdrawal We will be withdrawing from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Saturday 2nd September.[/i] Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on August 18, 2023, 11:28:14 Just a reminder that RMT staff at Cross Country are taking industrial action over the next four Saturdays, two of which coincide with national industrial action.
https://www.crosscountrytrains.co.uk/travel-updates-information/changes-to-train-times/industrial-action No services south west of Birmingham to Bristol, Plymouth and Cardiff. I very much suggest that GWR services in the south west will be extra busy as a result of no Cross Country services operating. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on August 18, 2023, 12:40:50 No services south west of Birmingham to Bristol, Plymouth and Cardiff. I very much suggest that GWR services in the south west will be extra busy as a result of no Cross Country services operating. Note that this is confirmed for *this* Saturday. For the other Saturday of only-Crosscountry (9th), nothing yet confirmed. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on August 19, 2023, 10:12:49 Looking at today's disruption map it's easy to see why the ASLEF action is having such little effect - there's no industrial action today but it looks pretty much the same with dozens of full/part cancellations and delays so no-one will notice the difference!!!
Business as usual! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on August 19, 2023, 14:39:11 Looking at today's disruption map it's easy to see why the ASLEF action is having such little effect - there's no industrial action today but it looks pretty much the same with dozens of full/part cancellations and delays so no-one will notice the difference!!! Couple the above with no Cross Country* services in the Southwest and you have potentially unpleasant journeys for many today.Business as usual! *Cross Country have managed to operate a single service between Birmingham and Plymouth this afternoon. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 10:44:03 Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced:
Quote Strike Dates Saturday 30th September 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October. Wednesday 4th October 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October. Overtime Withdrawal Friday 29th September 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September. Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on September 15, 2023, 11:13:14 Hmmm....the BBC seem to have the overtime ban dates wrong -
From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-66817630) Quote Train drivers have announced two more strikes as part of a long-running dispute with rail companies over pay. The Aslef union said its members at 16 train companies would walk out on 30 September and 4 October. It added an overtime ban for drivers across the rail network would take place on Friday 19 September and for five days from 2 to 6 October. The latest industrial action is expected to lead to cancelled and delayed services. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 11:44:22 Yes, the 19th would fall rather short of the 14 day notice period.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 15, 2023, 15:33:43 ASLEF’s justification for the new action:
https://aslef.org.uk/publications/aslef-train-drivers-union-announces-industrial-action-and-asks-wheres-wally Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 15, 2023, 15:39:10 Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced: Quote Strike Dates Saturday 30th September 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October. Wednesday 4th October 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October. Overtime Withdrawal Friday 29th September 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September. Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October Coincides with the Tory party conference - so they can't complain if Rishi uses his helicopter! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Phantom on September 19, 2023, 10:24:15 Two more dates of ASLEF strike action, and further periods of a ban on non-contractual overtime have been announced: Quote Strike Dates Saturday 30th September 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Saturday 30th September that run into Sunday 1st October. Wednesday 4th October 2023 Members should not sign on for duty between 00:01 and 23:59. This will also apply to any duties commencing on Wednesday 4th October that run into Thursday 5th October. Overtime Withdrawal Friday 29th September 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 until 23:59 on Friday 29th September. Monday 2nd October to Friday 6th October 2023 Members should withdraw from all non-contractual overtime starting from 00:01 on Monday 2nd October until 23:59 on Friday 6th October Does anyone know what sort of impact the overtime ban will have (29/09)? I am giving a presentation in London that day, I wonder whether I should be looking to reschedule? (Travelling from WSM to Paddington) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 19, 2023, 12:17:06 The overtime ban days probably won’t have much of an effect outside of summer. It does disrupt some behind-the-scenes training and cause a few additional cancellations, but not at a level that makes too much difference.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 20, 2023, 15:50:35 This time last year I listed the current driver numbers at GWR with the main intention to see the split between HSS grade drivers and GWR grade drivers. The former can withdraw from their rostered Sundays, with 5 days notice, the latter have 'commited' Sundays they are obliged to work if they don't want to work, but no cover can be found.
The implication being the more GWR drivers, the less of an issue Sunday coverage should become, especially over the summer. Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot: Bristol - HSS 66 GWR 118 Bristol Parkway - HSS 41 GWR 6 Cardiff - GWR 15 Exeter - HSS 43 GWR 150 Fratton - GWR 34 Gloucester - GWR 60 Oxford - GWR 83 Paddington - HSS 78 GWR 73 Par - GWR 33 Penzance - HSS 30 GWR 47 Plymouth - HSS 55 GWR 30 Reading - GWR 220 Swansea - HSS 65 GWR 5 Westbury - GWR 65 Worcester - HSS 25 GWR 14 Totals: HSS 403 GWR 953 TOTAL 1356 So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays. You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example. So, there's last years totals, and here are this years: Bristol - HSS 60 GWR 127 Bristol Parkway - HSS 41 GWR 20 Cardiff - GWR 18 Exeter - HSS 41 GWR 160 Fratton - GWR 31 Gloucester - GWR 66 Oxford - GWR 86 Paddington - HSS 74 GWR 85 Par - GWR 34 Penzance - HSS 29 GWR 56 Plymouth - HSS 54 GWR 57 Reading - GWR 237 Swansea - HSS 64 GWR 5 Westbury - GWR 67 Worcester - HSS 23 GWR 15 Totals: HSS 386 GWR 1064 TOTAL 1450 So, that's now a 27% HSS and 73% GWR split (from 30/70 last year), but also 94 more qualified drivers in total. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Phantom on September 21, 2023, 11:21:56 Excuse my ignorance, what does HSS stand for?
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on September 21, 2023, 11:40:36 High Speed Services. In this context it’s the drivers who used to be based at First Great Western drivers’ depots. As of about five years ago, a restructuring deal meant all new drivers would be classed as GWR regardless of depot, so the HSS drivers (who have certain extra conditions, such as the Sunday working one, ‘ring fenced’) are slowly dying out.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 23, 2023, 06:58:45 This time last year I listed the current driver numbers at GWR with the main intention to see the split between HSS grade drivers and GWR grade drivers. The former can withdraw from their rostered Sundays, with 5 days notice, the latter have 'commited' Sundays they are obliged to work if they don't want to work, but no cover can be found. The implication being the more GWR drivers, the less of an issue Sunday coverage should become, especially over the summer. Just to give an idea of driver numbers at each depot: Bristol - HSS 66 GWR 118 Bristol Parkway - HSS 41 GWR 6 Cardiff - GWR 15 Exeter - HSS 43 GWR 150 Fratton - GWR 34 Gloucester - GWR 60 Oxford - GWR 83 Paddington - HSS 78 GWR 73 Par - GWR 33 Penzance - HSS 30 GWR 47 Plymouth - HSS 55 GWR 30 Reading - GWR 220 Swansea - HSS 65 GWR 5 Westbury - GWR 65 Worcester - HSS 25 GWR 14 Totals: HSS 403 GWR 953 TOTAL 1356 So, 30% HSS and 70% GWR - a little more biased towards GWR than I was expecting, but they can have a disproportionate affect on the longer distance routes that seem to struggle the most on Sundays. You can't cover much of a Paddington<>Penzance service with crews from the GWR exclusive deports of Oxford, Reading, Fratton or Gloucester for example. So, there's last years totals, and here are this years: Bristol - HSS 60 GWR 127 Bristol Parkway - HSS 41 GWR 20 Cardiff - GWR 18 Exeter - HSS 41 GWR 160 Fratton - GWR 31 Gloucester - GWR 66 Oxford - GWR 86 Paddington - HSS 74 GWR 85 Par - GWR 34 Penzance - HSS 29 GWR 56 Plymouth - HSS 54 GWR 57 Reading - GWR 237 Swansea - HSS 64 GWR 5 Westbury - GWR 67 Worcester - HSS 23 GWR 15 Totals: HSS 386 GWR 1064 TOTAL 1450 So, that's now a 27% HSS and 73% GWR split (from 30/70 last year), but also 94 more qualified drivers in total. Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ellendune on September 23, 2023, 08:37:32 Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year. A few points: 1) Train Crew includes drivers, but other staff as well. 2) From my own experience at work I know there is a lot of Covid around at the moment with quite a few people off sick. Working on crowded trains may increase this for train crew. 3) It is holiday season for those who do not need to take holidays out of school term time. 4) Given the prolonged disputes and government cuts, there may well be a lot less good-will so less people willing to do voluntary overtime. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on September 23, 2023, 09:07:51 Looking at the number of cancellations and short runnings listed today (and today is not untypical), attributed to "shortage of train crew", you could be forgiven for thinking that there's a lot less drivers around, not almost 100 more than last year. A few points: 1) Train Crew includes drivers, but other staff as well. 2) From my own experience at work I know there is a lot of Covid around at the moment with quite a few people off sick. Working on crowded trains may increase this for train crew. 3) It is holiday season for those who do not need to take holidays out of school term time. 4) Given the prolonged disputes and government cuts, there may well be a lot less good-will so less people willing to do voluntary overtime. 5) There are a lot more trains around in the wider Bristol area (not carriages - 5 and 4 cars running around now as 2+3 and 2+2) and each needs crewing. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on October 04, 2023, 14:46:56 ASLEF picket line outside Oxford station. I took a look at their 'Show your support' signing sheet. Four signatures by 2pm. They've been there since 8 30am. I don't think they're winning over the public. Nice banner though.
(https://i.ibb.co/KLjVgxt/IMG-20231004-122722022-HDR.jpg) Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: nickswift99 on October 04, 2023, 18:30:24 ASLEF picket line outside Oxford station. I took a look at their 'Show your support' signing sheet. Four signatures by 2pm. They've been there since 8 30am. I don't think they're winning over the public. Nice banner though. (https://i.ibb.co/KLjVgxt/IMG-20231004-122722022-HDR.jpg) I'd be surprised if many (any?) travellers would sign the sheet given that they probably wouldn't have gone to the station today to catch a non-existent train. If ASLEF want to get written support, they'd be better doing it on days when the public were actually using the station. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on October 04, 2023, 18:48:24 There appeared to be two or three trains each way this morning to PAD fast, but nothing after that. God knows how they got home tonight
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on October 16, 2023, 18:35:29 The RMT have some odd allegiances amongst their senior leadership.
There's Dempsey's well documented affection for Putin, and now the Union's President is apparently aligning his members with Hamas terrorists too...... https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1713838531167088959?t=eIDkLgk0upnysp4nIhtJjQ&s=19 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on October 16, 2023, 21:09:24 The RMT have some odd allegiances amongst their senior leadership. There's Dempsey's well documented affection for Putin, and now the Union's President is apparently aligning his members with Hamas terrorists too...... https://twitter.com/habibi_uk/status/1713838531167088959?t=eIDkLgk0upnysp4nIhtJjQ&s=19 Supporting Palestine and the plight of Palestinians is very different from aligning with Hamas. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on October 19, 2023, 18:46:41 Another vote for some windmill tilting........
https://www.rmt.org.uk/about/ballot-results/?s=09 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on October 19, 2023, 21:26:25 Another vote for some windmill tilting........ As reported on the BBC ... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67162708 Quote Train passengers are facing another six months of potential strikes, after members of the RMT union voted for further industrial action. The dispute with rail companies has been going on for nearly 18 months already, with workers calling for better job security, pay and conditions. RMT general secretary Mick Lynch said the vote provided a "decisive mandate". There was a 63.6% turnout, with 89.9% voting in favour. "The government, who controls this dispute through a contractual mandate over the train operating companies, must now allow the Rail Delivery Group to put forward a revised offer so we can work towards reaching a settlement," Mr Lynch said. "However, if no new offer is forthcoming, we will once again take strike action in defence of our members' livelihoods." The Rail Delivery Group (RDG) said it was "acutely aware" of the impact that the ongoing industrial action was having on passengers, staff and businesses that use the service. It said it wanted to resolve the dispute. So am I going to have change the subject line to add "2024" and if so what will that prospect do to the railways as a whole as a mass transit system for the future? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on October 19, 2023, 23:29:09 I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023.
Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: eXPassenger on October 20, 2023, 09:50:22 I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023. Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election. Legally that could be January 2025! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on October 20, 2023, 10:09:20 I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023. Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election. Legally that could be January 2025! After yesterday's by-elections, could the Conservatives wish to hang on as long as possible? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on November 06, 2023, 20:54:00 Plan to run 40% of services during strikes by Christmas with new law.....
will be interesting how this works out.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67333310 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on November 06, 2023, 21:17:58 I was seemingly too optimistic when I changed the thread title to include 2023. Yep. Looks like 2024 is almost a cert now. Action will most likely continue until the General Election. Legally that could be January 2025! Ballots for strikes only last 6 months, then they need another. Not sure how you reached January 2025? Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 06, 2023, 21:57:14 Plan to run 40% of services during strikes by Christmas with new law..... will be interesting how this works out.... https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67333310 Quote Under the rules for train operators, the government said the equivalent of 40% of normal timetables should operate during strike action, allowing priority routes to stay open. First and second class lines? People getting so used to travelling to a railhead that they do so all the time and, oh look, we can implement Serpell. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on November 07, 2023, 08:44:44 The "equivalent of" reads to me that major arteries will be kept running while rural/branch lines may get zero service.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 08, 2023, 16:43:15 From The BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67355478)
Quote RMT members are to vote on a pay deal that could end the union's ongoing wave of industrial action against train companies. Operators have put forward an offer that proposes backdated pay rises for staff and job security guarantees. RMT boss Mick Lynch said he supported the deal, calling it a "welcome development". The transport department called it "a positive step towards resolving this dispute". and from GWR Quote Dear Graham We promised to keep you updated on the national dispute with the Rail Maritime Trade Union (RMT) - on board and station staff. The Rail Delivery Group and the RMT have just issued the statement below and we thought you would want to see it as soon as possible. Following further negotiations between RDG and RMT, a Memorandum of Understanding (MOU) on the current dispute has been developed which sets out a process for a mutually agreed way forward, including a backdated 2022 pay rise for staff and job security guarantees. This will now be put to RMT members in each of the Train Operating Companies in a referendum vote. If accepted, this MOU will terminate the national dispute mandate, creating a pause and respite from industrial action over the Christmas period and into Spring next year, while allowing for these important negotiations on proposed reforms to take place at local train operating company level, through the established collective bargaining structures. These discussions would be aimed at addressing the companies' proposals on the changing needs and expectations of passengers as well as unlocking further increases for staff, in order to help to secure a sustainable, long-term future for the railway and all those who work on it. This is a clear step forward and will be welcome news for customers and colleagues. We will of course continue to keep you updated as things progress. I should also note that this covers the RMT and not ASLEF (train drivers) and the RDG continues to work with them. As ever if you have any questions do let me know. Best wishes Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on November 08, 2023, 18:58:32 Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on November 09, 2023, 06:48:45 Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes I think it's a mistaken belief that there are many votes at stake in respect of this issue one way or the other. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 10, 2023, 06:54:27 From the Mail Online (https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12731975/Rail-workers-lost-wages-strikes-pay-deal-accepted-union-barons.html)
Quote Thousands of striking rail workers have lost far more in wages than they will get from a pay deal accepted by union barons. Train guards have on average lost £3,600 since the RMT union began striking last June, figures shared with the Mail show. And on-board catering staff and station ticket sellers are out of pocket by £2,990. In contrast, the lowest paid will get a lump sum of £1,750 as part of a deal accepted by RMT leaders this week in a bid to bring the union's 18-month strike campaign to an end. The deal is subject to 20,000 train guards, catering staff and ticket sellers accepting it in a ballot. The union will not advise them to reject it, raising hopes it will be accepted. And yet for ticket selling staff, HAVE they lost far more than they have gained? Have they gained, with the help of thousands upon thousands of thousands of rail users, a continuation of their employment? I know the statement that ticket office staff would continue to employed but for some the move away from a fixed location would have been unwelcome or impractical. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on November 10, 2023, 10:46:53 Now the station TOs have been kicked into the longer grass, there’s little that the DfT/Treasury can argue for & need to sort this prior to the election in the mistaken belief it may win them more votes I think it's a mistaken belief that there are many votes at stake in respect of this issue one way or the other. And yet for ticket selling staff, HAVE they lost far more than they have gained? Have they gained, with the help of thousands upon thousands of thousands of rail users, a continuation of their employment? I know the statement that ticket office staff would continue to employed but for some the move away from a fixed location would have been unwelcome or impractical. However you look at it, it's clear that the surprising complete u-turn by the DfT on ticket office closures has released the main log jam in the dispute and that should be welcomed by all. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: old original on November 10, 2023, 11:13:14 With ticket office staff, I know that several staff had already applied for, been interviewed and offered other positions, mainly on board. If they wanted to return to their original posts would they be allowed to? If not or if they didn't want to, will management fill the vacancies?
Don't forget this proposal only kicks the can down the road. This years pay award, of which talks start in February, will be subject to the same changes to conditions that have been talked about for the past 18 months but done locally i.e. by individual TOCs (allegedly(!)) I expect the subject closure of ticket offices WILL raise it's head again by the end of next year when the security of no job losses disappears. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on November 11, 2023, 08:51:21 With ticket office staff, I know that several staff had already applied for, been interviewed and offered other positions, mainly on board. If they wanted to return to their original posts would they be allowed to? If not or if they didn't want to, will management fill the vacancies? Don't forget this proposal only kicks the can down the road. This years pay award, of which talks start in February, will be subject to the same changes to conditions that have been talked about for the past 18 months but done locally i.e. by individual TOCs (allegedly(!)) I expect the subject closure of ticket offices WILL raise it's head again by the end of next year when the security of no job losses disappears. As you say the can has been kicked down the road. I suspect that ticket office closures will now happen on an individual, "creeping death" basis, retaining those which are more commercially viable whilst letting go those at the other end - especially where the space can be exploited more lucratively. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: bradshaw on November 11, 2023, 09:04:27 I think the key is ticket reform, reducing the complexity of that system. Once that is done, and passengers are comfortable with it, the ticket office dilemma will be revisited. However, I feel this ticket office future needs to be done following negotiation.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on November 11, 2023, 11:19:31 I suspect that ticket office closures will now happen on an individual, "creeping death" basis, retaining those which are more commercially viable whilst letting go those at the other end - especially where the space can be exploited more lucratively. I also think that will be the case. But it’s a much better way of doing it than the ridiculously rushed and ill thought out ‘you must close them all’ directive. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: broadgage on November 13, 2023, 00:35:03 I think the key is ticket reform, reducing the complexity of that system. Once that is done, and passengers are comfortable with it, the ticket office dilemma will be revisited. However, I feel this ticket office future needs to be done following negotiation. I have long suggested a very considerable simplification of rail fares, with only three different fares for each journey and preferably colour coded. If such a scheme was adopted, then closing less used ticket offices would be reasonable. the three fares to be known as peak, off peak and super bargain. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on November 13, 2023, 08:59:03 If you haven’t already, it might be worth producing a detailed set of proposals and sending that to all the relevant policy makers?
The franchise system collapse means there has never been a better time since privatisation for a wholesale reform. If it comes to nothing, then at least you’ve tried - after all, there’s very little chance of it being picked up on here. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 16, 2023, 09:06:32 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67436365) - ASLEF Strike days
Quote Train drivers are set to stage a fresh round of strikes in their long-running dispute over pay. The Aslef union has announced a "rolling programme" of walkouts between 2 and 8 December, with different train companies affected on each day. Drivers will also refuse to work any overtime from 1 to 9 December as part of the industrial action. [snip] Saturday 2 December at East Midlands Railway and LNER Sunday 3 December at Avanti West Coast, Chiltern, Great Northern Thameslink, and West Midlands Trains Tuesday 5 December at C2C and Greater Anglia Wednesday 6 December at Southeastern, Southern/Gatwick Express, SWR main line, SWR depot drivers, and Island Line Thursday 7 December at CrossCountry and GWR Friday 8 December at Northern and TPT Services are expected to be cancelled on strike days, causing disruption for passengers. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Phantom on November 16, 2023, 09:11:28 From the BBC (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67436365) - ASLEF Strike days Quote Train drivers are set to stage a fresh round of strikes in their long-running dispute over pay. The Aslef union has announced a "rolling programme" of walkouts between 2 and 8 December, with different train companies affected on each day. Drivers will also refuse to work any overtime from 1 to 9 December as part of the industrial action. [snip] Saturday 2 December at East Midlands Railway and LNER Sunday 3 December at Avanti West Coast, Chiltern, Great Northern Thameslink, and West Midlands Trains Tuesday 5 December at C2C and Greater Anglia Wednesday 6 December at Southeastern, Southern/Gatwick Express, SWR main line, SWR depot drivers, and Island Line Thursday 7 December at CrossCountry and GWR Friday 8 December at Northern and TPT Services are expected to be cancelled on strike days, causing disruption for passengers. Oh dear, the day I am supposed to be doing a presentation in London Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 16, 2023, 10:21:52 Oh dear, the day I am supposed to be doing a presentation in London On past form there will be limited daytime services ... and historically there would have been "the Waterloos" Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Clan Line on November 16, 2023, 12:24:18 I don't suppose that we can expect them to go and spend their £59,189 (BBC fig) salaries on Christmas prezzies in their own time - can we ? :-\ :-\
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on November 26, 2023, 09:28:43 I’m expecting widespread disruption on Sunday 3rd December with the non-contractual overtime ban. Many HSS grade drivers are likely to make themselves unavailable as per their T&C’s and GWR grade drivers won’t be volunteering for additional shifts.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Bob_Blakey on November 27, 2023, 12:14:28 My original 7th December booking DIG > EXD >PAD has had to be binned - RTT has been updated to indicate no Exmouth branch services, only two trains to PAD and no HEx service either.
I will (hopefully) now take a bus, using a crinklies pass, from home to Exeter city centre - the Stagecoach H will drop me off at EXC - and then 1L56 from EXC (1430) to CLJ (1809), this being diverted via WSB to avoid the engineering closure, followed by 1N95 CLJ (1822) > FEL (1842), and then the 490 TfL bus to Heathrow T4 (overnight hotel prior to early Friday flight to Nice + train to Toulon for the European Champions Cup game on Saturday). Fingers firmly crossed! Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on November 28, 2023, 19:20:21 I’m expecting widespread disruption on Sunday 3rd December with the non-contractual overtime ban. Many HSS grade drivers are likely to make themselves unavailable as per their T&C’s and GWR grade drivers won’t be volunteering for additional shifts. GWR backing up what you posted yesterday II: Quote Sunday 3 December – Action short of a strike There will be significant disruption to services and customers are recommended to travel the day before or the following day. Where trains can run, they will be extremely busy. Source: www.gwr.com/strike Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on November 29, 2023, 21:48:05 Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington.
There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on November 30, 2023, 08:09:17 Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington. GWR have confirmed this on X (Twitter) this morning:There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things. https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1730121328034738543 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on November 30, 2023, 09:01:04 Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington. GWR have confirmed this on X (Twitter) this morning:There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things. https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/1730121328034738543 From London to Bath and Bristol, take the hourly train to Swindon (timed for a 387, I notice) and change onto the Westbury train - the only service via Chippenham, changing again at Trowbridge. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on November 30, 2023, 12:34:06 RMT members have voted to accept the deal:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on December 01, 2023, 10:38:15 RMT members have voted to accept the deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683 Interesting that nobody thought this breakthrough worthy of comment. Anyway, ASLEF members have (unsurprisingly) voted heavily in favour of renewing their action with 88% GWR members voting for strike action and 96% voting for action short of a strike. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: grahame on December 01, 2023, 11:36:00 RMT members have voted to accept the deal: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-67577683 Interesting that nobody thought this breakthrough worthy of comment. Anyway, ASLEF members have (unsurprisingly) voted heavily in favour of renewing their action with 88% GWR members voting for strike action and 96% voting for action short of a strike. Ah ... now I did think of it as being worthy of comment, but refrained. It "feels" delicate to make too much comment on industrial relations at times. Realistically, one or two comments here are hardly likely to cause wide-spread upset. It is good news that the RMT have voted to accept the deal that was on offer, though it's my understanding that it doesn't last very long and more negotiations will be needed next year. But it really feels like one hurdle has been cleared only to leave another firmly - perhaps more firmly - in place with ASLEF. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 07:04:03 Looking at RTT for this coming Sunday 3rd of December, from what I can see, the only HSS services that will be operating to/from London is an hourly service Swindon to Paddington and an hourly service North Cotswolds line to Paddington. There will also be an hourly HSS service between Bath and Bristol along with the usual local and inter regional services. These appear to be running as normal across the GWR network. However, what’s shown today on RTT and what actually runs on the 3rd may be two completely different things. Which has turned about to be the case. No Swindon to Paddington services and many North Cotswold line services either canned or running short on top of many local and inter regional cancellations/short running. ASLEF have ended up with two strike days for the price of one. What a state our railways are in if they are able to bring the GWR network down without actually going on strike such is the reliance on overtime and the requirement not to work on a Sunday. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 07:27:47 I see that SWR are not running services between Exeter and Waterloo today with services starting at Yeovil Junction instead.
Given the circumstances, I think that’s wise with no GWR London services. You would have people coming up from the South West trying to connect onto the Waterloo services which were already operating half the usual number of services owing to engineering work between Yeovil and Salisbury. The potential for dangerous chaos at Exeter St David’s was there and has been wisely avoided IMHO. Edit: The Exeter to Yeovil shuttle service isn’t running either. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: GBM on December 03, 2023, 09:09:02 Pnz to Bristol.
Bristol to Southampton. Southampton to Waterloo. Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful). Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: TaplowGreen on December 03, 2023, 09:25:22 Pnz to Bristol. Bristol to Southampton. Southampton to Waterloo. Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful). A38/M5/M4 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 09:26:56 Pnz to Bristol. Bristol-Westbury or Salisbury to pick up a Yeovil/Salisbury-Waterloo service Bristol to Southampton. Southampton to Waterloo. Not sure of ticketing options!(that's where a person in an office would be useful). Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: Timmer on December 03, 2023, 19:15:10 Just for the record, three trains in each direction DID operate between Swindon and London.
They were: Swindon-Paddington 0845, 1245 and 1750 Paddington to Swindon 1012, 1412 and 1912 Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 10:00:09 ASLEF clearly not interested in ordering any strike action, or action short of a strike, over the Christmas and New year period.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: JayMac on December 20, 2023, 10:19:18 ASLEF clearly not interested in ordering any strike action, or action short of a strike, over the Christmas and New year period. Anything to do with the 24th and 31st being, what for many ASLEF members, will be lucrative Sunday turns? It's notable that none of the strikes or overtime bans called by ASLEF have included Sundays. No doubt they'll argue that the differing contracts across TOCs, and even within TOCs, where Sundays may or may not be part of the working week, make including Sundays in any action impractical. I think though, it's more likely that members, for whom Sundays can be a nice earner, would be less likely to vote for action that would include a Sunday. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 10:33:16 The last round of action included a Sunday.
Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on December 20, 2023, 12:17:14 Anything to do with the 24th and 31st being, what for many ASLEF members, will be lucrative Sunday turns? If it is, and I don’t think it is, it still leaves the 22nd, 23rd, 27th, 28th, 29th, 30th, 1st and 2nd. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: ChrisB on December 21, 2023, 17:16:03 Too late now for any pf those dates.
A chance for drivers to pay for their Christmas expenditure by working normally. Title: Re: Railway staff unions industrial and strike action - 2023 Post by: IndustryInsider on December 21, 2023, 19:24:32 Too late now for any pf those dates. Yes, that was my point. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |