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Title: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: ChrisB on August 24, 2024, 21:02:01 From Evening Standard, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/tube-offender-fined-1-800-after-repeatedly-using-overdrawn-card-tfl-says/ar-AA1plKN3?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=31db2a6f1d1c496ba3f5e3105dc78f9a&ei=261)
Quote ATube passenger has been fined almost £1,800 by Transport for London (TfL) after repeatedly trying to pay for journeys with an overdrawn card. The unidentified man racked up £1,200 in unpaid fares after using a contactless payment card without sufficient funds almost 200 times. The fine imposed by TfL comes on top of the outstanding fare amount. TfL used the example in committee documents in a discussion about how they might consider changing the payment model for their services as more customers tap in and out. Andy Lord, TfL commissioner, said: “Use of contactless payment cards has grown in the last financial year, increasing by 15 per cent on London Underground and 11 per cent on buses. “This has been a main area of focus when investigating irregular travel patterns. In the last financial year, our investigations identified 414 individuals who habitually avoided paying for all or part of their journeys, adding up to more than £363,000 of avoided fares.” He said that in one case identified, the individual failed to correctly validate their contactless payment card 193 times, totalling over £1,200 of unpaid fares. The individual attended court in April and pleaded guilty to all charges. “We also identified another individual who was avoiding fares by using a bank card that had insufficient funds,” Mr Lord added. "Analysis of the card’s usage showed a failure to validate on every journey made in over a year. We used CCTV footage to help find the offender. The individual attended court and pleaded guilty to all offences and was ordered to pay £1,796 to us." It was not stated how the offender was able to get around the TfL checks. The guidance asks customers to always use the same device or contactless card to touch in and out to make sure you pay the right fare. TfL has said it will shortly be launching a new fare evasion poster on the network, which includes the message “a fare is less than a fine”. Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 24, 2024, 21:10:16 Quote It was not stated how the offender was able to get around the TfL checks. However, they clearly did - "almost 200 times". ::) Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Surrey 455 on August 25, 2024, 00:24:38 Quote It was not stated how the offender was able to get around the TfL checks. However, they clearly did - "almost 200 times". ::) I don't understand this either. I thought that TfL attempt to take a payment overnight. If that fails they try again a few hours later or the next day and after 2 or 3 failed attempts they then block the card from being used on their network. So was the offender actually tapping his card or just waving it at barrier staff? Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: johnneyw on August 25, 2024, 11:10:17 A (fairly closely) related question if I may?
What advantages does having a specific payment card for TfL journeys have over paying (as I do when the occasion arises) by tapping in and out with my debit card? It just appears to me to be a unnecessary additional card in my wallet. Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Mark A on August 25, 2024, 11:43:38 Does having a registered Oyster card make it easier to unpick things when touch in / out goes wrong? (Perhaps it's just as easy with a debit card though). When the revenue protection guy hauled me in for ticketless travel last month, he was able to scan the Oyster and see the journey history, showing him that I had touched in (though not in the way that I thought I had). Ditto with pink touch in point mishaps.
Mark Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Mark A on August 25, 2024, 11:45:36 Also, it means that rather than wafting a higher value phone or debit card around at stations, the passenger can keep those somewhere more secure and wave a hopefully lower value card around instead.
Mark Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: BahnCard100 on August 25, 2024, 13:26:51 Greetings everyone. One of the long standing advantages of an Oyster card over contactless bank card is the 1/3rd discount granted to holders, like my wife, of the National Disabled Persons Railcard. TfL staff have always been very helpful to us when registering a renewed Railcard.
Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Oxonhutch on August 25, 2024, 14:27:21 One of the long standing advantages of an Oyster card over contactless bank card is the 1/3rd discount granted to holders, like my wife, of the National Disabled Persons Railcard. Also my current Senior Railcard and previously my annual Goldcard. Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Fourbee on August 25, 2024, 18:42:38 The Disabled Person's Railcard gets a discount on peak TfL fares too (depending on the journey railcard holders may be better off swerving Oyster).
TfL rely on the cardholder's PAN (16 digit card number) staying the same for hotlisting purposes, the balance of the card needs to be >= £0.10 to enable the initial 10p/entry to be authorised. Some bus companies use a similar system (e.g. Stagecoach - who process transactions off-line so the balance isn't checked). In both cases it is possible to re-enable a card which has had insufficient funds in the past, the companies publish how to do this: https://tfl.gov.uk/fares/how-to-pay-and-where-to-buy-tickets-and-oyster/pay-as-you-go/contactless-and-mobile-pay-as-you-go/why-doesnt-my-contactless-card-work https://www.stagecoachbus.com/help-and-contact/faqs/what-happens-if-my-contactless-card-is-declined Title: Re: Tube offender fined £1,800 after repeatedly using overdrawn card, TfL says Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 25, 2024, 20:39:06 Back to the main topic, even if the card wouldn't open the gate, the passenger may simply be tapping his card while nipping through quickly behind someone else before the gate shuts. Rather less likely to atttact attention than not using a ticket at all, and easier to pass off each individual occurence as the gate just playing up if anyone questions it.
Alternatively, TfL are reluctant to stop people leaving a station even if they don't have a valid ticket/card; unless there is the right back-up (fully trained revenue staff and preferably a police presence), there is nothing that can be done in terms of taking either payment or passenger name/address details, or detaining them, so little point stopping them in the first place. The card is unlikely to open an entry gate to start a journey, but once in the system (eg from an ungated station) they may well be able to tap out and leave. TfL would though have a record of the failed payment locations and could build up a pattern of travel allowing the miscreant to be identified and subsquently intercepted by suitable personnel to start the legal process. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |