Title: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: ChrisB on August 04, 2024, 20:29:04 From The Telegraph, via MSN (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/travel/news/end-of-the-line-for-the-phrase-this-train-terminates-here/ar-BB1qTTD9?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=5a6a6f3a039c4c7ca8af834f92147068&ei=166)
Quote Rail companies are swapping the phrase “this train terminates here” in favour of “this train ends its journey here” to make “language easy to understand for everyone”. On-board announcements across three major rail companies are being adjusted because rail bosses think the word “terminate” is too “jargony” and “bureaucratic” for modern-day passengers. It is part of a years-long drive by Britain’s railway companies to simplify how they communicate with passengers. Language campaigners have welcomed the move, saying it would make life easier for foreign passengers, but warned that it could lead to travellers paying less attention to important information. Great Western Railway has told staff to avoid old-fashioned terms when making Tannoy announcements, and instead to make them “clear and engaging”. Remove the word “terminate” Meanwhile, pre-recorded announcements on LNER and South Western Railway trains are being updated to remove the word “terminate” from end-of-the-line broadcasts. Removing the word “terminate” is part of a project started in 2019 which has seen paper tickets redesigned and online information revised to strip out confusing wording. Phasing out of the phrase is expected to continue over the next few years as new rolling stock is introduced with the modernised wording installed on public address systems as standard. Other railway-specific terms such as “alight” are also expected to disappear over time as part of the drive towards clearer English. A GWR spokesman said: “We give our teams a fair bit of leeway in how they make announcements clear and engaging for customers. “Every now and then we tweak our guidance to colleagues, and terminating ‘terminates’ seems like a sensible move to make way for something less jargony and needlessly bureaucratic.” ‘Native tongue’ A spokeswoman for the Rail Delivery Group (RDG), the trade association for privatised passenger train companies, added: “We are always looking at how we can improve communication to customers and part of that is about making the language easy to understand for everyone. “Some onboard announcements have been updated by train operators following an in-depth review of customer feedback. This is part of the Smarter Information, Smarter Journeys programme to improve customer information.” Tony Maher, general manager of the Plain English Campaign, said that removing “terminate” could make it easier to understand rail announcements for passengers for whom English is not their native tongue. “I would actually say that’s a good change… the word terminate probably would confuse more people if they’ve got English as a second language,” he said. “I think the word ‘terminate’, with it being longer and more complicated, they’re less likely to understand it. And we tend to find, because of that, they will listen a bit more carefully.” ‘Obscure railway terminology’ Mr Maher added that jargon was not necessarily harder for non-native English speakers to understand. “We do tend to find, believe it or not, that people who’ve got English as a second language actually have a better grasp of grammar than people in the UK because it’s taught differently in a lot of other countries,” he said. A 2019 mystery shopper study commissioned by the RDG found: “Across the industry, there has been a legacy of some locations and regions using obscure railway terminology and jargon, rather than talking in simple customer-centric language. “We did hear one passenger say that they thought the information was produced ‘by railway people for railway people’ thus underlining the opportunity for improvement.” Part of the reason why rolling out new announcements is expected to take years is because those who originally recorded the voiceovers used today have since died, making it harder to insert new words and phrases. Celia Drummond, whose voice is played on South Western Railway’s trains as well as London Underground’s Northern Line to this day, died in 2021. Likewise, Phil Sayer, whose voice is also heard on trains and at stations up and down the country, died in 2016 after suffering cancer. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase ‘this train terminates here’ Post by: IndustryInsider on August 04, 2024, 22:49:12 Going back to Thames Trains days, there was a policy to remove the word ‘terminate’ as I was felt it might upset passengers who had experienced abortions.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase ‘this train terminates here’ Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2024, 07:02:27 I believe the term "cancellations and alterations due to crew shortages" is to be removed in favour of the term "normal service", in order to more accurately reflect GWR's performance.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase ‘this train terminates here’ Post by: bobm on August 05, 2024, 07:18:29 I remember after Clapham there was a concerted effort not to use the phrase “signalling failure” after the cause of the accident was publicised.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 05, 2024, 07:42:56 I have to wonder if we are being too considerate as we water down wording for sensitivity reasons. "This train in the timetable at 17:44 will not run due to insufficient funding from HMG to staff it" may be the truth, but it's likely to upset the members of HMG who have restricted the funding and consider cancellation rates of around 10% sometimes acceptable.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Red Squirrel on August 05, 2024, 07:57:00 I certainly empathise with the consideration that clearer terminology facilitates and ameliorates comprehension.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: TonyK on August 05, 2024, 08:35:00 I certainly empathise with the consideration that clearer terminology facilitates and ameliorates comprehension. Indubitably, and may I offer my most enthusiastic contrafibularities! Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: JayMac on August 05, 2024, 08:47:38 The rail companies are anaspeptic, phrasmotic, even compunctuous to have caused passengers such pericombobulation.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Bob_Blakey on August 05, 2024, 09:52:11 Some of the contributors to this forum have evidently been binge watching Blackadder videos.
BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 05, 2024, 11:18:56 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2024, 11:37:45 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. Knowing the geography of Windsor, how would you propose joining Central to Riverside? Tunnel under the castle? Or perhaps a flyover to allow customers to wave down at His Majesty from on high? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: IndustryInsider on August 05, 2024, 12:11:45 Knowing the geography of Windsor, how would you propose joining Central to Riverside? Tunnel under the castle? ;) https://prezi.com/t4nowetbs2gw/wlr-masterplan/#_0_24309637 Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 05, 2024, 12:59:01 “This train ends its journey here” sounds to me at least as though the train is about to be sent to the scrapyard. Terminates is shorter and so should be simpler. I do wonder if this is a circular problem as in our desire to keep things simple we drop words seen as jargon so people don't get to hear them in context and don't get used to them. A parallel is the way slam doors on trains became more dangerous as they were being phased out because fewer passengers were used to them.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: plymothian on August 05, 2024, 13:35:37 'Vestibule' is also on GWR's list for the chopping block.
Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: TaplowGreen on August 05, 2024, 13:37:36 Knowing the geography of Windsor, how would you propose joining Central to Riverside? Tunnel under the castle? ;) https://prezi.com/t4nowetbs2gw/wlr-masterplan/#_0_24309637 That's a really interesting idea. Do you know if it got anywhere or is/was it just to prompt debate as it suggests? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Red Squirrel on August 05, 2024, 14:38:27 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. A few years ago, as I was about to leave Paddington with Weekend First upgrade, a very wealthy-looking chap (who may have been a friend of Sir Rowley Birkin) got on and asked his flunkey whether the train would be going 'that way', gesturing in the approximate direction of Hyde Park. I managed to restrain myself from telling him that if we did, it would be on the evening news... Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 05, 2024, 14:59:58 'Vestibule' is also on GWR's list for the chopping block. Yep, they could get more seats in there if they could do without a vestibule ;D Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Surrey 455 on August 05, 2024, 20:21:12 'Vestibule' is also on GWR's list for the chopping block. I still remember the first time I heard an announcement on a Thames Turbo that safety instructions were in the vestibule. Looking around me I saw so many confused faces. What is a vestibule? we were thinking. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Trowres on August 05, 2024, 20:54:13 "Terminates" is concise. It fits better on an in-carriage display than "ends its journey here".
Is it really harder to understand than "depart" or "arrive"? In my opinion there are more significant communication difficulties that should be fixed first. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Mark A on August 05, 2024, 21:25:43 I have to wonder if we are being too considerate as we water down wording for sensitivity reasons. "This train in the timetable at 17:44 will not run due to insufficient funding from HMG to staff it" may be the truth, but it's likely to upset the members of HMG who have restricted the funding and consider cancellation rates of around 10% sometimes acceptable. Gerry Fiennes, from his curiously affecting book: "I tried to run a railway". One day, fed up with the reaction of the public to our more detailed explanations of delays I walked with a firm stride into the broadcaster's cabin at King's Cross. 'Anything about that's late?' I said. 'Yes, sir. The Yorkshire Pullman just passed Finsbury Park 53 late'. 'Why?' She went into a string of engine failures on a preceding freight train, signal delays at Peterborough by the station pilot, and so on. I told her what I wanted her to say. She gasped a little: 'I can't put that over.' 'Yes you can'. 'Sir it's as much as my job's worth'. 'All right, clear out of the seat and I will'. The Pullman ran in. I gave it a minute. Then I said smoothly, 'We regret the delay to the Yorkshire Pullman. It was due to bad management'. I raced down the platform to watch the reaction. It could be, I thought, 'At last the truth', or 'Sack 'em then'. In fact not a ripple on the surface. Since then I have come to the conclusion that however much the public demand explanations and apologies, with few exceptions they want nothing more than that someone shall take notice of them, no matter in what form. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: infoman on August 06, 2024, 03:00:11 YOUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect
OUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect The next station stop is XXXX CORRECT coach/cart/car? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 06, 2024, 06:05:25 YOUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect OUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect The next station stop is XXXX CORRECT I found it odd when announcements changed from "the next stop will be XXXX" to "the next STATION stop will be XXXX", though I admit it is more correct with that extra word. Especially on trains that call at Westbury that almost routinely seem to stop at the signals outside. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Ralph Ayres on August 06, 2024, 10:49:31 YOUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect OUR next station stop is XXXX incorrect The next station stop is XXXX CORRECT I found it odd when announcements changed from "the next stop will be XXXX" to "the next STATION stop will be XXXX", though I admit it is more correct with that extra word. Especially on trains that call at Westbury that almost routinely seem to stop at the signals outside. Adding the word "station" perhaps made sense before the days of central door locking, with a concern that someone might open a door when the train stopped without checking for a platform, but now it just comes across as unnnecessarily pedantic. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: IndustryInsider on August 06, 2024, 11:55:02 If you’re partially sighted/blind then ‘next stop’ might lead to an uncomfortable feeling if the train stops before the station. I think that was the thinking behind adding the word ‘station’. Automated announcements and audible alarms on the doors (albeit annoying for some) have helped such passengers enormously over the last 20-30 years.
Though what’s wrong dropping the word ‘stop’? “The next station is xxxx.” Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: infoman on August 06, 2024, 12:00:46 agreed.
Also for those who come from the Paddington direction on the approach to Swindon the automatic announcements are in alphabetical order Change here for Cheltenham Gloucester Kemble Stonehouse and Stroud Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 06, 2024, 12:09:16 Though what’s wrong dropping the word ‘stop’? “The next station is xxxx.” Devil's Advocate mode ... leaving Severn Tunnel Junction, the next station is Pilning ... now six days out of seven, the train doesn't stop there ;D Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: didcotdean on August 06, 2024, 12:18:44 If considering the comprehension of non native English speakers, "terminate" does have the small benefit of being recognisable to speakers of Romance languages. "End of journey" is only an English phrase. End has cognates in Germanic languages but journey has none. Even French from which it was borrowed no longer uses it that sense (voyage instead).
Vestibule has similar words across Romance languages but also in a number of Germanic ones such as Danish and Dutch. Alight though is peculiarly English word. It goes right back to Old English with much the same meaning (descend away from) but other related languages no longer use a similar word) Simply "getting off" seems better. Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 06, 2024, 13:16:45 It's also interesting how many stations have a suffix on their name (though many have been removed) - the "Junction", "Parkway" etc ... and announcements also seem to have an "only" suffix on them too, but that seems missing on the platform signs when you get there
(http://www.wellho.net/pix/marlowonly.jpg) Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Chris from Nailsea on August 06, 2024, 19:04:33 Devil's Advocate mode ... leaving Severn Tunnel Junction, the next station is Pilning ... now six days out of seven, the train doesn't stop there ;D ... including Wednesdays. CfN. ;D Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: PhilWakely on August 06, 2024, 19:37:17 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. And Ryde Pier Head ? ;D Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 06, 2024, 20:10:47 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. And Ryde Pier Head ? ;D Join via a bridge to Portsmouth Harbour? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Mark A on August 06, 2024, 20:35:29 I am beyond moved by knowing that test coach 'Mentor', in another era, saw routine service on the... Somerset and Dorset Railway.
Mark Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: paul7575 on August 07, 2024, 12:22:40 Can we please bin “arriving into” please, and go back to arriving at?
Paul Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Witham Bobby on August 07, 2024, 12:30:04 BTW if 'terminate' is to be relocated to an appropriate redundant material receptacle does the term 'terminus' also suffer the same fate? And, if so, with what would it be replaced? There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. And Ryde Pier Head ? ;D Join via a bridge to Portsmouth Harbour? Extending beyond Minehead would be an interesting challenge. I suspect a bridge to Aberthaw might be the easiest way of doing it Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: Sulis John on August 07, 2024, 13:26:01 There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. [/quote] Why? Title: Re: End of the line for the phrase "this train terminates here" Post by: grahame on August 07, 2024, 13:33:52 Quote There should be no such thing as a terminus station - for example Severn Beach should be extended to Pilning , Scarborough should extend to Whitby, Henley on Thames should be extended to join up at Marlow, and Windsor Central should join to Windsor Riverside. In extremis, all stations at line ends should be loops like Dungeness on the RH&D. Why? My original. I fear my sense of humour was too dry - I was joking. though there are some termini that could naturally be joined onwards. Skipton to Colne, Tweedbank to Carlisle, Uckfield to Lewes This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |