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All across the Great Western territory => The Wider Picture in the United Kingdom => Topic started by: infoman on December 30, 2023, 07:32:04



Title: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: infoman on December 30, 2023, 07:32:04
due to flooding in the tunnel/s at Ebbsfleet,Simon Calder is at St Pancras reporting LIVE for BBC breakfast news.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: stuving on December 30, 2023, 09:57:30
Southeastern put a video out on (e)X(Twitter) (https://t.co/juBDBzY3qU) yesterday that shows it's a leaking pipe. I guess that's their way of saying "look, it's not our fault!".


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: JayMac on December 30, 2023, 15:35:15
Highlights the folly of having international stations no longer taking international passengers.

Eurostar services could have run to and from Ashford International, where passengers could've transferred to classic lines services to continue their journey.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: bradshaw on December 30, 2023, 15:44:09
From Sky News
Quote
  Thames Water explains cause of flooded tunnel
Thames Water has issued a statement explaining the cause of the flooded railway tunnel that has caused major disruption to Eurostar and Southeastern services today.
The flooding happened at a tunnel near Ebbsfleet International station in Kent.
  A Thames Water spokesperson said it believed the incident was related to "a fire control system and not a Thames Water pipe/asset, however we have a technician on the way to offer support to control the flow of water".

"We will continue to monitor the situation and offer support where needed," the spokesperson added.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: grahame on December 30, 2023, 15:52:08
Reminded me of this ... from https://thebrunelmuseum.com/1828-tunnel-flood/ - the first Thames Tunnel that became a part of the East London line between Shadwell and Wapping

Quote
On this [12th January] day in 1828, the Thames Tunnel flooded for the second time, badly injuring and nearly killing young Isambard Kingdom Brunel, and bringing an end to the lives of six other men working on the project.

The workers Isambard had been assisting with shoring, Collins and Ball, did not make it out alive. They were later found crushed under the bricklaying platform. Isambard managed to get free, but the tunnel was rapidly filling with water. He called out to make for the shaft, nearly 600ft of tunnel away, as he struggled in that direction through the watery darkness.

Thank Goodness that the leak in the new Thames Tunnel seems nothing like this ...


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Oxonhutch on December 30, 2023, 16:37:22
Highlights the folly of having international stations no longer taking international passengers.

Eurostar services could have run to and from Ashford International, where passengers could've transferred to classic lines services to continue their journey.

Even if Ashford/Ebbsfleet cannot handle outgoing passengers, all of those currently stuck in Paris could be brought home.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Mark A on December 30, 2023, 17:32:23
Reminded me of this ... from https://thebrunelmuseum.com/1828-tunnel-flood/ - the first Thames Tunnel that became a part of the East London line between Shadwell and Wapping

Quote
On this [12th January] day in 1828, the Thames Tunnel flooded for the second time, badly injuring and nearly killing young Isambard Kingdom Brunel, and bringing an end to the lives of six other men working on the project.

...

Thank Goodness that the leak in the new Thames Tunnel seems nothing like this ...


It's amazing that Marc Brunel's Thames Tunnel carries trains and didn't rapidly fall to bits within the first weeks. Presumably it's that the lining's in compression and the ground through which it runs doesn't have too many nasties, but even so.

It put me in mind of Big Big Train's "The First Rebreather", their account, in song of all things, of Alexander Lambert's one-man mission to rescue the Severn Tunnel's workings.

Thank Goodness that the leak in the new Thames Tunnel seems nothing like that either!

Mark

https://www.bigbigtrain.com/about-the-new-songs-the-first-rebreather/ (https://www.bigbigtrain.com/about-the-new-songs-the-first-rebreather/)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDDQD5yHdk (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CDDDQD5yHdk)


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Mark A on December 30, 2023, 17:40:45
Highlights the folly of having international stations no longer taking international passengers.

Eurostar services could have run to and from Ashford International, where passengers could've transferred to classic lines services to continue their journey.

Wondering if that was a Eurostar contingency plan that was actionable before all the turbulence prompted the decision to close both.

I'm also wondering how frequently a comparatively recently built high speed line suffers disruption related to the way it's built - and also, for the HS1 Thames Tunnel, the provision of a sump and the scale of its capacity, perhaps the provision was on the assumption that they structure stayed essentially dry save for things like condensation.

Mark


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: 1st fan on December 30, 2023, 19:41:22
Before High Speed 1 (HS1) and the move to St Pancras, the alternative/emergency station for international arrivals was Kensington Olympia. Drivers would use Factory Junction to reach the West London Line that way. The station had immigration facilities in the form of buildings in the Motorail car park. Don’t think with the move they can use that now. Also I think the immigration buildings are also now used for another purpose, car rental offices springs to mind.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on December 30, 2023, 19:45:20
And what would the cost have been to keep the International side fully operational but on standby? Having Border Force staff on permanent stand-by but doing nothing? How many days would the station have been used since it was mothballed?

Whatever additional costs would have to have gone on higher fares & would likely have E* folded completely.



Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on December 30, 2023, 19:49:59
From Sky News
Quote
  Thames Water explains cause of flooded tunnel
Thames Water has issued a statement explaining the cause of the flooded railway tunnel that has caused major disruption to Eurostar and Southeastern services today.
The flooding happened at a tunnel near Ebbsfleet International station in Kent.
  A Thames Water spokesperson said it believed the incident was related to "a fire control system and not a Thames Water pipe/asset, however we have a technician on the way to offer support to control the flow of water".

"We will continue to monitor the situation and offer support where needed," the spokesperson added.


Fire mains in railway tunnels are kept "wet" and under pressure usually by a header tank and pump system located in the tunnels' Head House, this is where the Water Company main supply is to top up the tank.

This will be embarrassing for NRHS Maintainenance Ltd, they should know how to shut the fire main off.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on December 30, 2023, 20:02:01
Before High Speed 1 (HS1) and the move to St Pancras, the alternative/emergency station for international arrivals was Kensington Olympia. Drivers would use Factory Junction to reach the West London Line that way. The station had immigration facilities in the form of buildings in the Motorail car park. Don’t think with the move they can use that now. Also I think the immigration buildings are also now used for another purpose, car rental offices springs to mind.

The class 374 (Eurostar e320) are built to European loading gauge so cannot run on normal UK lines, also they do not have shoe gear for third rail and have never been fitted with the UK signalling systems (AWS, TPWS).  Even the class 373 (the original Eurostar trains) no longer have shoe gear or the UK signalling systems (AWS, TPWS).

The link from just South of Ebbsfleet to the SR has been mothballed by HS1 and is not functional.

And what would the cost have been to keep the International side fully operational but on standby? Having Border Force staff on permanent stand-by but doing nothing? How many days would the station have been used since it was mothballed?

Whatever additional costs would have to have gone on higher fares & would likely have E* folded completely.


Its not just Border Force staff its Eurostar staff, security systems and general maintainenance of the station facilities  to keep it safe for use.

Passangers have been inconvenienced but are safe, delays similar to this happen all the time with airlines


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: JayMac on December 30, 2023, 20:20:27
And what would the cost have been to keep the International side fully operational but on standby? Having Border Force staff on permanent stand-by but doing nothing? How many days would the station have been used since it was mothballed?

Whatever additional costs would have to have gone on higher fares & would likely have E* folded completely.



In this particular instance the border control staff need only be redeployed from St Pancras to temporarily reopen the mothballed facilities at Ashford.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on December 30, 2023, 20:23:11
I think the unions may have something to say about that - and maybe the Home Office too.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ellendune on December 30, 2023, 21:07:37
Think of the cost for a once in ???? use?  Would have to be added to ticket prices. 


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: stuving on December 30, 2023, 22:36:58
This will be embarrassing for NRHS Maintainenance Ltd, they should know how to shut the fire main off.

Exactly what I was thinking. The tunnel's only 3 km long, so even if someone has to go and look inside it should not take much over an hour - and you'd think there was CCTV in any case. All the pipes are clearly marked, and details of how to shut them off are readily available at the control centre. Then the main drainage pumps take over and the whole incident is over in no more than three hours, less if incident planning and rehearsal is really good.

So ...


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: infoman on December 31, 2023, 04:21:25
Two things

Just to clarify its fresh water pipe that has burst and not the River Thames springing a leak?

A recent event at a hotel which was using their stored supply of water,
as the mains water supply had suffered a break in supply.

Following day a very large water tanker was on site to supply the hotel with fresh water.
I thought that was quick to get a water tanker on site that quickly.
Turned out the water company had been doing some works near the hotel and turned the mains supply off,
but had forgot to turn the supply back on.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Mark A on December 31, 2023, 10:18:10
This will be embarrassing for NRHS Maintainenance Ltd, they should know how to shut the fire main off.

Exactly what I was thinking. The tunnel's only 3 km long, so even if someone has to go and look inside it should not take much over an hour - and you'd think there was CCTV in any case. All the pipes are clearly marked, and details of how to shut them off are readily available at the control centre. Then the main drainage pumps take over and the whole incident is over in no more than three hours, less if incident planning and rehearsal is really good.

So ...

... given that Eurostar won't be able to move the 30,000 delayed passengers from yesterday by switching their bookings to today, should anyone on this forum be caught up in similar disruption in the future, would the best course of action be to be familiar in advance with the likes of a more minor crossing such as the Newhaven-Dieppe ferry and associated train travel and possible accommodation for early departures so you can spring into action in advance of the majority of the other 29999 eurostar travellers?

Then you can resign yourself that while you won't be in e.g. Paris in three hours, you'll be there within the day...

Not much use tomorrow on the Newhaven to Dieppe route as they don't sail on new year's day.

I'd have suggested Dover but at one point wasn't it vehicle accompanied traffic only and is it now the case that the carriers have changed their minds and are now accepting foot passengers once more?

Mark


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: GBM on December 31, 2023, 10:36:43
..............................
I'd have suggested Dover but at one point wasn't it vehicle accompanied traffic only and is it now the case that the carriers have changed their minds and are now accepting foot passengers once more?

Mark
From https://www.poferries.com/en/routes/dover-to-calais/travel-information/travelling-as-a-foot-passenger
Travelling as a foot passenger
 

We are very pleased to be welcoming foot passengers back on board our popular Dover to Calais route. With France being just a 90 minute sailing away and Calais having great bus and rail connections, travelling as a foot passenger doesn’t mean you have to miss out on exploring!

 

We have put together some useful updated information below, please ensure you are fully up to date with the new requirements for travelling as a foot passenger including; current testing rules, foot passenger check in times and restrictions, as these are likely to be different to the last time you travelled with us.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: grahame on December 31, 2023, 10:38:39
Quite out of context for today, I have been recommending Cherbourg to Portsmouth and Hook of Holland to Harwich on the "Interrailing for the Older Crowd" Facebook Group to members on an unfixed schedule who need to get back across the channel at short notice.    The approach I took last year (and probably will next) was to fly to wherever there were last minute cheap flights available at the far end of Europe and then trickle back, taking Eurostar is available at a sensible price, or a ferry if not ...


and (stop press) I see that foot passengers are "welcome" (but it may just be politically tolerated) from Calais to Dover.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Mark A on December 31, 2023, 11:36:52
Ah, thanks for the link. Sounds as though, from Dover, P&O's had their arm twisted and put together a minimal capacity for foot passengers and, for good measure, on only a minority of ferry crossings.

Mark


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: JayMac on December 31, 2023, 21:18:34
Think of the cost for a once in ???? use?  Would have to be added to ticket prices. 

Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices? It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL.

Border staff. Unions. Home Office. Costs. Excuses, excuses, excuses. A can't do rather than can do attitude. A pervasive attitude that blights so many service providers.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: grahame on January 01, 2024, 03:55:13
Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. ...

What are the liabilities on Eurostar cancelled service?  Does delay/repay apply, for example, and do they need to accommodate people who turn up with a reservation to find all trains cancelled and no alternative?


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on January 01, 2024, 06:23:28
Can I ask a couple of technical questions about the pipe? 

Various reports are describing it as a fire main.  Does it have to be available for emergency use if the line is being used (such that, if it fails, then the line can't be used)?

What happened in the other tunnel? AIUI most high-speed lines are capable of single-line working - why wasn't this possible here?

Is there a similar fire main in the Channel Tunnel?


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: JayMac on January 01, 2024, 07:44:18
The channel tunnel has a high pressure water mist system (HPWM) at four 870m long 'safe station' locations. Two pairs of safe stations on the British and French sides. If a fire breaks out on a train it is driven to the nearest safe station where the HPWM system is activated.

https://www.independent.co.uk/travel/news-and-advice/the-channel-tunnel-s-ultimate-sprinkler-system-how-fire-is-a-tunnel-s-worst-enemy-9988930.html

https://www.tunnel-online.info/en/artikel/tunnel_2010-07_Fire-safety_in_the_Channel_Tunnel-1033486.html


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2024, 08:02:29
Can I ask a couple of technical questions about the pipe? 

Various reports are describing it as a fire main.  Does it have to be available for emergency use if the line is being used (such that, if it fails, then the line can't be used)?
The EUs' TSI's (Technical Specifications for Interoperability) now in the UK NTR (National Technical Rules) require fire mains in tunnels, over I believe 1km, for fire fighters to use.
A fire main not being available does not prevent the operation of all trains in that tunnel, the local fire fighting authority needs to be informed and what the plan and time scale is the fire main to be returned to service

What happened in the other tunnel? AIUI most high-speed lines are capable of single-line working - why wasn't this possible here?
It depends where the water was entering the tunnels, there are cross passages.  Also with teams needing to access the track HS1 rules prevent trains running with staff on the track.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Worcester_Passenger on January 01, 2024, 10:47:01
Thanks for both of those. The range and quality of technical information that's available on this site never ceases to amaze me!  :)


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 11:27:29
Think of the cost for a once in ???? use?  Would have to be added to ticket prices. 

Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices?

No - because these costs don't materialise. Displaced customers will be/have been carried in unsold seats on future rains or refunded their purchase price. There are no other costs as E* are not liable for these in law.

Quote
It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL.

Errr - huge. as I said above, very limited on-costs for E* versus the cost of opening Ashford for a da. Ashford is incapable f being opened within a week at least - all the IT infrastructure has been removed I understand, so there are no gate software, border force infrastructure, etc, etc - all removed.

To have it put back such that it could be immediately activated would be in the £millions, and a permanent on-cost, not just a one-off iin keeping it maintained. It woulde put E* out of the UK business.



Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2024, 14:58:20
Think of the cost for a once in ???? use?  Would have to be added to ticket prices. 

Versus the costs incurred by having all services cancelled for a whole day. Refunds, compensation, alternative travel, accommodation, food and beverages. Are they added to future ticket prices?

No - because these costs don't materialise. Displaced customers will be/have been carried in unsold seats on future rains or refunded their purchase price. There are no other costs as E* are not liable for these in law.

Quote
It'd be an interesting comparison to see the costs of all the cancellations versus the cost of a limited one day opening of Ashford International to get people moving. Not forgetting the compensation Eurostar will receive from the infrastructure owner, HICL.

Errr - huge. as I said above, very limited on-costs for E* versus the cost of opening Ashford for a da. Ashford is incapable f being opened within a week at least - all the IT infrastructure has been removed I understand, so there are no gate software, border force infrastructure, etc, etc - all removed.

To have it put back such that it could be immediately activated would be in the £millions, and a permanent on-cost, not just a one-off iin keeping it maintained. It woulde put E* out of the UK business.



The payment of the cost of compensation to the passenger will be down to a commercial / contractual discusion between the owners HS1 Ltd (a consortium comprising of funds advised and managed by InfraRed Capital Partners Limited and Equitix Investment Management Limited). the maintainer (NRHS1 Ltd) and any sub contractors responsible for maintaining the asset that failed.

Simple really  ;D


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 15:03:55
Yep - so E* will itself be compensated for being unable to run trains - eventually - but the passengers affected get nothing except their fare back.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2024, 15:08:32
Yep - so E* will itself be compensated for being unable to run trains - eventually - but the passengers affected get nothing except their fare back.

I should imagine m'learned friends may have something to say about that if people have incurred hotel and other expenses as a result of Eurostar cancelling pretty much a full day's service and leaving them stranded.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 15:19:02
Under which UK law? You would need to show that E* conditions of Carriage are unlawful.##There are no laws to compensate International rail travel like there are when you fly. Mr Calder set it out on twitter if you care to check his timeline


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2024, 15:41:33
Under which UK law? You would need to show that E* conditions of Carriage are unlawful.##There are no laws to compensate International rail travel like there are when you fly. Mr Calder set it out on twitter if you care to check his timeline

You may have a point and it's something the railways generally have been getting away with for far too long - given that customers stranded at Euston recently were recompensed for hotel bills however this may set a precedent or at the very least Eurostar should do something for these stranded customers out of common decency..........you know, doing the right thing?


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 15:51:00
French company....let's see. I doubt it.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: JayMac on January 01, 2024, 16:05:51
Yep - so E* will itself be compensated for being unable to run trains - eventually - but the passengers affected get nothing except their fare back.

And reasonable expenses for overnight stays as per their conditions of carriage. Eurostar said this would include up to £150 per passenger for overnight accommodation. £50 for food. Up to £150 taxi to accommodation (per vehicle, not per person). Based on their average loadings, average fare and the 41 trains cancelled, they're looking at a bill of £2.5 million.

Facilities maintenance remains in place at Ashford International. A new contract was awarded for just that in December 2023.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 16:09:39
Ok, thanks - Calder gets it wrong again.

Those facilities refer to the functioning doors & platform areas, not the IT links, facilities & connectiuons that a fully functioning border control would require.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: TaplowGreen on January 01, 2024, 16:12:04

Ok, thanks - Calder gets it wrong again.



A Damascene conversion! (was the road flooded?)  ;)


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: stuving on January 01, 2024, 16:15:52
French company....let's see. I doubt it.

Eurostar International Limited is a private limited company registered in the UK (number  02462001). It's a rather odd one, however, since its two "persons with significant control" are Eurostar Group SA (a Belgian company) and the "Gouvernement De La Republique Francaise" (address as for Élisabeth Borne).

The tunnel is run by Eurotunnel, itself owned by Getlink which is a European company. The tunnel is a regulated monopoly under the provisions of an international treaty, which is certainly a bit unusual.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 01, 2024, 16:20:21
Indeed - the UK Government shed their strake some time ago.

Waiting to hear whether those that couldn't wait fore resumption of service & made their own way across the channel will receive any additional cost compensation too.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on January 01, 2024, 16:36:57

Facilities maintenance remains in place at Ashford International. A new contract was awarded for just that in December 2023.

Ashford could not handle the outbound 30,000 passengers this all day cancelation caused let alone the inbound as well. 
There are no easy train turn around (reverse) facilities at Ashford,
The Eurostar UK train care depot is at Temple Mills (Stratford) ie North of the flooded tunnel so there would be a shortage of trains.


The tunnel is run by Eurotunnel, itself owned by Getlink which is a European company. The tunnel is a regulated monopoly under the provisions of an international treaty, which is certainly a bit unusual.

Except that the tunnel that was flooded is owned by HS1 Ltd


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on January 03, 2024, 11:44:05
Reports I have heard about the flooding, it was caused by external water build up external to the railway, it was not a failure of the railway infrastructure; this explains the message from Thames Water (Sewage and drainage) that it was not caused by them.  The volume of water exceeded the tunnel pumps capacity.


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: ChrisB on January 03, 2024, 19:52:30
Hmmm. So it's usual to have gushing water pipes within their infrastructure? I don't think that statement holds much water, frankly


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: grahame on January 03, 2024, 19:56:54
Hmmm. So it's usual to have gushing water pipes within their infrastructure? I don't think that statement holds much water, frankly

the pipework certainly didn't  ;D


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: stuving on January 03, 2024, 20:29:00
Reports I have heard about the flooding, it was caused by external water build up external to the railway, it was not a failure of the railway infrastructure; this explains the message from Thames Water (Sewage and drainage) that it was not caused by them.  The volume of water exceeded the tunnel pumps capacity.

I find that hard to make sense of as an explanation of that video of the water coming into the tunnel. Was that water in the video a red herring? I would have thought the amount of water shown there would be well within the capacity of pumps draining the whole tunnel. And was the water not coming out of the pipe at all, just using a convenient hole to get in?

Behind those questions is another - why is a pipe going straight into tunnel wall at all? It's an odd thing for it to do, even if it is not far underground at this point (which isn't what is implied by "water build up external to the railway").


Title: Re: no trains between Ebbsfleet and St Pancras
Post by: Electric train on January 03, 2024, 22:15:51
Reports I have heard about the flooding, it was caused by external water build up external to the railway, it was not a failure of the railway infrastructure; this explains the message from Thames Water (Sewage and drainage) that it was not caused by them.  The volume of water exceeded the tunnel pumps capacity.

I find that hard to make sense of as an explanation of that video of the water coming into the tunnel. Was that water in the video a red herring? I would have thought the amount of water shown there would be well within the capacity of pumps draining the whole tunnel. And was the water not coming out of the pipe at all, just using a convenient hole to get in?

Behind those questions is another - why is a pipe going straight into tunnel wall at all? It's an odd thing for it to do, even if it is not far underground at this point (which isn't what is implied by "water build up external to the railway").

The pipe just happened to be the penetration through the concrete wall, the hole is either cast or drilled larger that the pipe and then sealed.

It was not a burst fire main, water main or drainage discharge that was leaking, it was down to the hydraulic pressure of the "flood" water external to the tunnel that forced its was through the penetration in the concreate wall   



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