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All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: GBM on October 30, 2023, 05:36:20



Title: Signalled wrong road
Post by: GBM on October 30, 2023, 05:36:20
https://www.plymouthherald.co.uk/news/local-news/penzance-paddington-train-reverse-along-8866914

Penzance to Paddington train had to reverse along rails after 'mis-routing'
Passengers were left surprised at learning they were heading towards Bristol instead of London - and even more surprised when the driver put the engine into reverse........

Continues

Oh, the journalistic effort in that last sentence!


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: Ralph Ayres on October 30, 2023, 11:22:19
Dare I point out that the title of this post is misleading?  "Wrong road" means the track for the opposite direction (down instead of up, west instead of east etc); this was a case of wrong route.

In general a driver should be able to tell in advance which way the train is being sent from the signals shown and if possible should stop the train rather than "accept" a wrong route, so avoiding the need to get permission to put the engine into reverse (sigh!) and back up.  None of this was unsafe but all rather disruptive and there'll no doubt be a bit of an investigation into both the signaller's and driver's respective involvement, quite possibly to be able to put on record that the driver followed the correct process in an unusual situation.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: stuving on October 30, 2023, 11:49:26
In general a driver should be able to tell in advance which way the train is being sent from the signals shown and if possible should stop the train rather than "accept" a wrong route, so avoiding the need to get permission to put the engine into reverse (sigh!) and back up.  None of this was unsafe but all rather disruptive and there'll no doubt be a bit of an investigation into both the signaller's and driver's respective involvement, quite possibly to be able to put on record that the driver followed the correct process in an unusual situation.

It appears, from insiders of railforums, that the two routes at Cogload have very similar speeds: 90 and 100 mph. That means there is no safety-related need for the driver to be warned about which route is set, and in this case the signals in advance of the junction don't give that information. So this time you (and the driver) can blame the signallers!


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: bobm on October 30, 2023, 14:27:15
Journeycheck put the 21 minute delay down to a problem with the signalling system.

Approaching the junction at 90mph clearly isn't going to give you enough time to see if you have the feather or not and react in time if it is wrong.

(https://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/cogload0518.jpg)

This picture from May 2018 shows a GWR HST being shown the route via Athelney.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: old original on October 30, 2023, 19:57:04
Not the first time.

Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H, I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.

Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: ChrisB on October 30, 2023, 20:18:48
Surely a lot harder to do in these days of ROCs and SCs? Computers set the route, while the signallers watch for exceptions? So either the software would need to be faulty or an incorrect manual intervention made?

(Assuming automated signalling at the junction (I think so))


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 30, 2023, 20:38:33
Surely a lot harder to do in these days of ROCs and SCs? Computers set the route, while the signallers watch for exceptions? So either the software would need to be faulty or an incorrect manual intervention made?

(Assuming automated signalling at the junction (I think so))

Exeter PSB controls that junction and no automated signalling (ARS) is fitted there.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: Mark A on October 30, 2023, 20:39:06
Not the first time.

Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H, I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.

Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.

Bit off topic but is it the box from Cogload that's at Coleford in the Forest of Dean?

Mark


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: bradshaw on October 30, 2023, 21:00:23
This shows a scan of the signalling notice for the Cogload Jct area conversion in 1986. It covers the area from Taunton East Jct to Athelney/Bridgwater

https://www.signallingnotices.org.uk/scans/108/1986%20-%2013%20Exeter%20Stage%204A.pdf


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: old original on October 31, 2023, 07:34:07
Not the first time.

Some many years ago there used to be a lunchtime Ply-Pad via bristol, Mon-Thu.
Fridays it started back at Pnz and went via the B&H, I was on it once on a friday and exactly the same thing happened. Brakes went it as we went passed the junction, came to a halt and after 10 mins or so, shunted back and away we went right road.

Probably went down to the signaller forgetting which day of the week it was.

Bit off topic but is it the box from Cogload that's at Coleford in the Forest of Dean?

Mark

I honestly don't know.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: Bob_Blakey on October 31, 2023, 09:13:06
Given that the B&H / Athelney route appears to be signalled with a 'feather' should the previous signal not have been displaying a flashing yellow aspect?


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: paul7575 on October 31, 2023, 09:44:12
Given that the B&H / Athelney route appears to be signalled with a 'feather' should the previous signal not have been displaying a flashing yellow aspect?
AIUI there’s no requirement as the speed differential is only 10 mph.  An aerial view suggests the points are high speed for both routes, ie neither route is actually ‘straight through’, but the B&H is clearly becoming a curve.

Paul


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: IndustryInsider on October 31, 2023, 11:35:01
Yes that's correct, Paul.  If it were resignalled now, then you would probably find a PRI (Preliminary Route Indicator) would be installed and/or a 'Splitting Distant' type of signal aspect at the signal previous to the one protecting the junction.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: bobm on October 31, 2023, 16:31:18
Ironically there is one of those PRI signals at the other end of the Berks & Hants line at Southcote Junction.  Sadly it is not in a place that it is easily photographed.


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: Mark A on October 31, 2023, 18:20:54

Bit off topic but is it the box from Cogload that's at Coleford in the Forest of Dean?

Mark

I honestly don't know.

Ah, found a reference and it is indeed the box from Cogload, but with alterations to the interior perhaps.

Mark

https://www.alamy.com/the-great-western-railway-signal-box-preserved-at-coleford-railway-museum-coleford-glos-image471861285.html (https://www.alamy.com/the-great-western-railway-signal-box-preserved-at-coleford-railway-museum-coleford-glos-image471861285.html)


Title: Re: Signalled wrong road
Post by: chopper1944 on November 01, 2023, 09:27:32
If it was still in existence would the Durston & Athelney Loop Line prevented this occurence?



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