Great Western Coffee Shop

All across the Great Western territory => Across the West => Topic started by: Btline on May 16, 2008, 18:18:30



Title: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 16, 2008, 18:18:30
This train (X) has been revised.

Light refreshments in Coach A


or

This train (X) has been revised.

Light refreshments in Coach E


What does this mean? When would this happen? ???


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: devon_metro on May 16, 2008, 18:22:24
Static trolley in Coach A or E. (A has a water supply)


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 16, 2008, 18:26:35
What is wrong with the buffet car?


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: swlines on May 16, 2008, 18:26:57
There isn't one...


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Mookiemoo on May 16, 2008, 20:16:40
What is wrong with the buffet car?

quite often the 1623 from rdg to wos has no buffet!


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: IanL on May 16, 2008, 22:40:25
The 1551 from Paddington (1649 from Oxford) is almost always like this now.

Unfortunately it has an unwanted 'benefit'. The door to coach A which is on the platform side at Oxford is locked and out of use because the trolley is parked there. This means that half of coach B and all of coach A have to exit through a single door in coach B which dramatically increases the dwell time at Oxford.....the rest of the train can have doors closed and ready to go but passengers are still getting off at the front of the train.

Very badly implemented in my opinion.

Ian


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Mookiemoo on May 16, 2008, 22:48:10
The 1551 from Paddington (1649 from Oxford) is almost always like this now.

Unfortunately it has an unwanted 'benefit'. The door to coach A which is on the platform side at Oxford is locked and out of use because the trolley is parked there. This means that half of coach B and all of coach A have to exit through a single door in coach B which dramatically increases the dwell time at Oxford.....the rest of the train can have doors closed and ready to go but passengers are still getting off at the front of the train.

Very badly implemented in my opinion.

Ian

Probably the same trai I was referring to from RDG - sorry if I dont have all the PAD timings to memory anymore


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: miniman on May 17, 2008, 11:20:04
What is wrong with the buffet car?

quite often the 1623 from rdg to wos has no buffet!

WOS is Worcester, right? That's a bloody long way without a brew if the trolley has run out of stock (or water). You would think that service was a prime candidate for always having a set with a buffet. Bristol - London is much less nasty without a buffet, for example.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 17, 2008, 20:11:25
Hang on, I thought FGW had scrapped the idea of axing buffet cars (backed up with some pathetic idea that removing them would "improve acceleration")?

I saw two unrefurbed buffets in trains last week, and assumed they were awaiting refurbishment.

They also use the argument that people prefer an at seat service so they don't leave their possessions.

But:

*a - the trolley is static, so basically is a "watered down" (accuse the pun) version of a buffet car

*b - in an overcrowded train neither passenger nor staff will want to battle down the train to buy/sell.

Utter maddness! >:(


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Conner on May 17, 2008, 20:26:34
What is wrong with the buffet car?

quite often the 1623 from rdg to wos has no buffet!

WOS is Worcester, right? That's a bloody long way without a brew if the trolley has run out of stock (or water). You would think that service was a prime candidate for always having a set with a buffet. Bristol - London is much less nasty without a buffet, for example.
I was on a Penzance-London via Bristol HST without a buffet, the longest route a HST can do in normal service.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: smithy on May 17, 2008, 20:29:38
Hang on, I thought FGW had scrapped the idea of axing buffet cars (backed up with some pathetic idea that removing them would "improve acceleration")?

I saw two unrefurbed buffets in trains last week, and assumed they were awaiting refurbishment.

They also use the argument that people prefer an at seat service so they don't leave their possessions.

But:

*a - the trolley is static, so basically is a "watered down" (accuse the pun) version of a buffet car

*b - in an overcrowded train neither passenger nor staff will want to battle down the train to buy/sell.

Utter maddness! >:(

i was under the impression the 2+7 is going to be happening again after some rethinking following a safety incident with a trolley while trialling?

regards the so called pathetic idea acceleration is improved,the buffet is heaviest coach in set and acceleration and fuel economy are greatly improved without it.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: devon_metro on May 17, 2008, 20:31:13
FGW have 53 HST sets and 53 buffets. I got the opposite impression to you smithy  :P


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 17, 2008, 20:35:14
Smith your post is ambiguous. If trolleys are going to be banned by H&S due to one spilling hot water on someone, surely that will cause 2+8s to be common? ???

And note that GNER added an additional coach to their sets!


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: smithy on May 18, 2008, 12:01:46
Smith your post is ambiguous. If trolleys are going to be banned by H&S due to one spilling hot water on someone, surely that will cause 2+8s to be common? ???

And note that GNER added an additional coach to their sets!

you misunderstand me,the 2+7 was put on hold after a safety incident,but they have rethought the idea after a trolley redesign?

well that is what i was told anyway.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: swlines on May 18, 2008, 12:56:54
According to a wonderful source who knows everything, there are several no buffet diagrams - the most significant one has 0600 Plymouth to Paddington in its diagram.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: swlines on May 18, 2008, 12:57:40
According to a wonderful source who knows everything, there are several no buffet diagrams - the most significant one has 0600 Plymouth to Paddington in its diagram.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Sion Bretton on May 18, 2008, 19:07:40
Yes but isn't  Coach A the quite Coach.  ???
Does this mean we have to order our Light refreshments in sign language?  ;D


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Conner on May 18, 2008, 19:08:48
It is in the vestibule which is not the 'quite' zone.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: swlines on May 18, 2008, 19:09:41
Quite. ;D


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Sion Bretton on May 18, 2008, 19:13:14
You mean where the is door with a porthole?


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Conner on May 18, 2008, 19:18:38
You mean where the is door with a porthole?
yeh as that is the water store.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Sion Bretton on May 18, 2008, 19:22:49
It I think people in quite coach will not like the door opening & shutting as customer buy the refreshments. Long walk for first class passengers when the is no first class host.  ::)


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 18, 2008, 22:27:23
And why can't the trolley move down the train?


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 18, 2008, 22:32:08
Because the train is crammed with passengers - full and standing - out of Paddington and well beyond Reading, for example?


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 18, 2008, 22:34:58
Um, which means that nobody will leave their seats (or square foot of standing space) to get to the trolley!

A static trolley is worse than a buffet! people are more likely to chance the buffet as they will be able to get a coffee or a glass of wine!

Say NO to TROLLeys!


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Chris from Nailsea on May 18, 2008, 22:52:16
Exactly what I was saying, back in February! http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1835.msg13610#msg13610

 ;)


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: devon_metro on May 19, 2008, 09:11:56
Um, which means that nobody will leave their seats (or square foot of standing space) to get to the trolley!

A static trolley is worse than a buffet! people are more likely to chance the buffet as they will be able to get a coffee or a glass of wine!

Say NO to TROLLeys!

Leaving your seat to go the trolley is exactly the same concept as the buffet. Research done by FGW showed that passengers on peak hour trains out of Paddington did not use the bufets due to the risk of loosing their seat, so its just a waste of money to run one surely?



Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Mookiemoo on May 19, 2008, 10:12:03
Um, which means that nobody will leave their seats (or square foot of standing space) to get to the trolley!

A static trolley is worse than a buffet! people are more likely to chance the buffet as they will be able to get a coffee or a glass of wine!

Say NO to TROLLeys!

Leaving your seat to go the trolley is exactly the same concept as the buffet. Research done by FGW showed that passengers on peak hour trains out of Paddington did not use the bufets due to the risk of loosing their seat, so its just a waste of money to run one surely?



Depends on where they are going.

Peak passengers to reading and maybe swindon etc probably wont - but I bet those continuing on to southwales, cornwall, hereford do

HST trains are not and should not be solely about those passengers doing the last 30-60 minutes of a journey or the first 30-60 minutes.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Doctor Gideon Ceefax on May 19, 2008, 10:48:40
What research? The buffets at peak time are packed with commuters propping up the bar getting cans of beer or bottles of wine on their journey home.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 19, 2008, 18:22:12
It is ridiculous. >:(

Yet another time long distance passengers are being pushed aside for shorter distance people on HSTs.


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: 12hoursunday on May 21, 2008, 03:42:32
And why can't the trolley move down the train?


Because the train is crammed with passengers - full and standing - out of Paddington and well beyond Reading, for example?

It's static because a couple collasped. There were some injuries i am led to believe.




Hang on, I thought FGW had scrapped the idea of axing buffet cars (backed up with some pathetic idea that removing them would "improve acceleration")?


It's like smithy said a seven car set will go like stickey brown stuff off a shovel so that theroy is correct. However one will also do the same when a ordinary coach is missing!


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: smithy on May 21, 2008, 12:08:45
And why can't the trolley move down the train?


Because the train is crammed with passengers - full and standing - out of Paddington and well beyond Reading, for example?

It's static because a couple collasped. There were some injuries i am led to believe.




Hang on, I thought FGW had scrapped the idea of axing buffet cars (backed up with some pathetic idea that removing them would "improve acceleration")?


It's like smithy said a seven car set will go like stickey brown stuff off a shovel so that theroy is correct. However one will also do the same when a ordinary coach is missing!

quite correct if a normal carriage is removed it will increase acceleration also,but with the buffet (heaviest carriage) removed the acceleration is even quicker


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: swlines on May 21, 2008, 12:18:08
Taken from the big book of knowledge (ie, diagrams); following services on Monday to Friday are booked as 2+7 high density, no buffet:

05.52 Moreton-in-Marsh to London Paddington
06.00 Plymouth to London Paddington
06.08 Westbury to London Paddington
07.15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
07.22 London Paddington to Oxford
07.48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
08.18 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
09.06 Oxford to London Paddington
09.48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
09.55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
10.31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
10.51 London Paddington to Oxford
11.54 Exeter St Davids to London Paddington
12.22 London Paddington to Oxford
12.31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
12.31 Oxford to London Paddington
13.15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14.15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central
14.31 Oxford to London Paddington
15.22 London Paddington to Oxford
15.48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa
15.51 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street
15.55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
16.55 Cardiff Central to London Paddington
17.01 Oxford to London Paddington
18.31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington
18.33 London Paddington to Oxford
18.36 London Paddington to Exeter St Davids
18.49 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington
19.30 London Paddington to Weston-super-Mare
21.01 Oxford to London Paddington


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: Btline on May 21, 2008, 14:08:36
Too many of these.

Some of the journeys are too long for buffets also - and that's without a sub for a Penzance train!

Are FGW refubing the remaining buffets yet?


Title: Re: Light refreshments in Coach A
Post by: devon_metro on May 21, 2008, 16:29:18
Too many of these.

Some of the journeys are too long for buffets also - and that's without a sub for a Penzance train!

Are FGW refubing the remaining buffets yet?

Its only 5 diagrams(1 Spare). Besides I thought HSTs didn't have good enough acceleration for the Cotswolds?

Although, yes, they don't see to be very well organised with too many long journeys. But thats the way it works. I doubt 4 HSTs are needed for OXF-PAD and return. The set to Plymouth would also appear to be due to maintenance. 1A82 (0600 PLY-PAD) is also probably the least slacky of FGWs trains. Does the journey in 3 hours calling Newton A, Exeter SD, Taunton, Reading and Paddington so could do with the reduced weight.



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