Great Western Coffee Shop

They are thinking of falling back into line with the legal requirements only,  i.e. after 09.30 weekdays

https://www.falmouthpacket.co.uk/news/23185979.cornwall-council-launches-consultation-bus-services/

Looking for easy cost-cutting measures.

Maybe, but potentially frees up space on services for workers & school/college kids, shifting older people to quieter services during the day, so is probably worth looking into.

Presumably they can access fare data to know how many concessionary cardholders are traveling before 9.30, but what they probably don't know is who is traveling out of necessity to doctors, hospitals and other responsibilities, and how many just like to get up early and crack on with the day.   

Population of Cornwall  565,968 (year 2018)

Concession pass's in Cornwall 115,000

Bus journeys in six months(the summer months) 1.3 million which in one year equates to 2.6 million?

Which if my maths are correct works out as 22 journeys per person,per year,would this actually be half,if you have to go some where,you have to come back.

Ref the 1.3 million journeys that were taken in the summer holiday months,would visitors to the county have pushed up the numbers?

I would be prepared to pay the two pounds to get on the first bus's of the day Monday to Friday,but I ain't gonna put that down on the survey.

I do not know the figures but I believe the 1.3 million summer journeys will include a very significant number of summer visitors.  It would be interesting to know the number of winter journeys,
My son used to work for a Council and he was always commenting about the cost of non resident bus pass holders.

A return to the 9.30am start will take ensure those services departing at 9.26am on being delayed with a subsequent rush at 9.30am, so late running again.  This was a feature of all the 9.30am runs, guaranteed late running, and quite a full/very full bus.
Far better when the times were x24 so no crowding and just the usual late running.

Not sure if single fares exist,Cornwall all day "Rover" are priced at a fiver and £2.50p for journeys in and around the towns shown below.

Penzance, Hayle, St Ives, Camborne, Redruth, Helston, Falmouth-Penryn, Newquay,
St Austell, Bodmin, Truro, Bude, Launceston and Liskeard

I do not see how changing this timing would save the council any money. I would use the bus just as much but later. At the moment I like to go out earlier because very often the early buses are quieter. After 0930 the buses are full with college students on there way to Truro.

I do - aren't bus pass usage refunded by the Government after 0930, while the Council would need to fund usage pre-0930 as the Government only fund after that time?

When we were staying in Newquay a couple of years ago,Cornwall bus's were allowing consessioner bus pass holders to board the first bus's of the day for a flat rate of two pounds.

Which mean Cornwall council would keep all those "two pounders"

In Wiltshire too, the concessionary fare scheme until earlier thie year was that passes were valid for anyone joining a bus between 09:30 and 23:00 Monday to Friday, any time Saturday or Sunday.  With some operators (locally to where I live, Faresaver provides the services), outside those hours seniors could travel on showing their card at a child fare.

From Septmber 1st (I think it was), the restrictions were lifted. This is until the end of March 2023 and it has always been described as a temporary change - an encourgemnt to seniors to come back to the buses; numbers have been severly down, and the extras are well within the funds already available this financial year at the tail of covid recovery grants; numbers have been slower than hoped coming back so the extension is being paid from those (central) grants.  When those grants end from 1st April 2023, we are back to 09:30 to 23:00.

The 09:30 business could be a problem to operators. Having had a busy school run, they have somewhere between half an hour and an hour of their vehicles running around very quiet - people are at work, children in the classroom, and OAPs waiting for "when we are able to use the bus".  Then at 09:30, they flood on.  So the 08:54 and 09:24 buses are quiet and the 09:54 stuffed.  Some clever passengers catch the 09:24 and get off and on again at a (totally inadequate for the purpose) stop in the lane through Whitley where the service calls at 09:32, having bought a short journey when they initially joined, and rejoining on their senior card.

In pracise / at present, I don't think there are huge numbers of pensioners out at the time of the morning school and work run (such as that still exists) and I suspect that the number of extra concessionary journeys made is not massive. From a load balancing viewpoint, the 09:30 limit is an artificial barrier very much like on the trains, the 19:32 off Paddington has been the busiest of the day because it's the first super off peak in the evening.

Enshrined in law is the requirement on the bus operators to carry ENCTS passengers in the designated hours without asking for any payment, so a request for a "small" payment is simply not an option what would be, I suspect, a parilamentary decision very unpopular with Tory voters.

The ENCTS scheme does have its flaws.  It is indeed a frustration for holiday areas that they have to pay for the local travel of people from other parts of England, which can be significant. The amount paid to the bus operator is far from generous - intended to be a "break even" so they don't lose on each seat, but sadly not economic in situations where the bus is so loaded with OAPs that they have to turn away younger people who would pay commercial rates.  However, without the scheme I suspect that many buses would be running a lot less filled - if they were running at all!  And without the scheme a significant number of seniors would not get out at all, leading to significant mental and perhaps physical health issues and extra drains on the public services having to provide greater home support.

"Enshrined in law is the requirement on the bus operators to carry ENCTS▸ passengers in the designated hours without asking for any payment, so a request for a "small" payment is simply not an option what would be, I suspect, a parilamentary decision very unpopular with Tory voters."

There must be exceptions, because, if I rightly remember, pre-covid, during the peak summer timetable, First Kernow banned the use of passes on the LandsEnd - St.Ives route all day.

The Landsend St Ives routes were classified as 'commercial' so they were able to charge any passenger as at the rate applicable at that time.
No concessions accepted.
With a commercial route, the operator pays the costs which are then recouped by fares paid.

The exceptions are set out in the ‘Travel concessions (eligible services) order 2002 as amended by the ‘Travel concessions (eligible services) (amendment) order 2009’. The 2009 amendment order explicitly excludes the following types of services from the mandatory concession:

•     services on which the majority of seats can be reserved in advance of travel (such as coaches)
•     services that are intended to run for a period of less than 6 consecutive weeks
•     services operated primarily for the purposes of tourism or because of the historical interest of the vehicle
•     bus substitution (rail replacement) services
•     services where the fare charged by the operator has a special amenity element

The LandsEnd bus would have been classified as a tourist service. Unless it ran for less than six weeks, which would provide a simpler let-out to justify.

See the Guidance for travel concession authorities on the England national concessionary travel scheme (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/guidance-for-travel-concession-authorities-on-the-england-national-concessionary-travel-scheme/guidance-for-travel-concession-authorities-on-the-england-national-concessionary-travel-scheme)

A glitch in the scheme is that it is devolved, so someone on the National borders is limited to their own side; likewise an aged Bristolian going over to Wales pays in full.

Passports next.

OTC

1) Just gone through the questions in the survey without filling in any answers,can some showed me where it proposes to put in "timed restrictions"

2) It seems that the council want residents to tell the council know how to spend the money.

3) Not sure if its a good time to conduct the surveys,as bus users might have a different view point before or after the 2 pound maximum finishes at the end of march

taking into account the survey concludes on 17 february