Great Western Coffee Shop

Interesting one from First ScotRail land :

A registered blind man who was allegedly told he could not board a train because his guide dog could be a health risk has demanded an apology (link below.)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/scotland/north_east/7355260.stm

First ScotRail insisted guide dogs were welcome on all trains - and said it would investigate the complaint.

If the dog hadn't been a guide dog, should that have made a difference? I can honestly say that I've never encountered a problem taking dogs on trains, including on FGW.

Dogs can be a pain, owners just leave them to lie down in the asile so noone can get past, or they sh1t in the doorways, HOWEVER, guide dogs are usually very well tempred, as they are trained to be so and never cause any problems, only thing I can think is that the train may have been overcrowded.

Hi vacman seems to be as many dogs as passengers on the st ives just lately, what ever happened to taking the dog for a walk ???

I'd agree that leaving them to lie down in the aisle could be annoying (dont allow that with mine) and I plan journeys to try and avoid times where the trains can be overcrowded, which apart from the inconvienence to passengers bringing a dog on board at such times can cause, being "closed in" could be very distressing for the dog itself. However, whether non-guide dogs are well-tempered depends on how you train/treat them. There are plenty of responsible dog-owners out there, with well-behaved pets as a result. I am "dog-free" when "On Tour", by the way.


FGW, SWT and Southern services offer me the chance to take mine out of Portsmouth and closer to country destinations off-peak for interesting walks.

To be honest, the reason that stories like this alarm me, is that I would hate to see (say) a blanket ban on non-guide dogs as part of our increasingly over-the-top H&S culture, thus penalising responsible dog-owners and their pets.

Last week I saw a dog on a Voyager.
But the owner was sitting on a table facing taking up one seat.
The owners luggage was on the seat next to the owner.
And the dog was sitting opposite the owner on two seats with a blanket.

Hope the owner had paid four fares then.  :)

See no problem taking dogs on trains as long as the owners can keep them under control. Most of the time they sit under the table, never seen one in the aisle.

Or occasionally the owner will stand with the dog at the end of the carriage so they are out of the way. 

i do not see dogs on trains as a problem so long as the owners do not put them on the seats or in aisles.
i have seen plenty of evidence to suggest dogs have been put on seats,especially the refreshed sets with fluff and hair magnet seat covers.

Evening

A friend of mine has a guide dog, they are
trained to a very high standard and are hand
picked from Pup stage.  I am also suprised at
"Scot Rail", there usually good.

However I did travel on a FGW HST service from
Truro to Newton Abbot and in the opposite seat
was a lady, with a badly behaved child and a jack
russel, un-muzzled, you know was going to come!
As usual child upsets dog and it then goes nuts
under about half a dozen seats (including mine),
barking, growling, all sorts.  Being a refurb seat
you couldn't see much underneath you but could hear
it, how that dog didn't bite about half a dozen people
I don't know.

So I have no problem with guide dogs, but I
think if anybody else is to bring a dog onto a
train it should be muzzled, or have one those
mouth straps.  I think this should made a
requirement so even if the best behaved dog
happens to turn nasty there shouldn't be any risk
of it bitting or grabbing any individual that
happens just to be in the wrong place.  Do any
TOC's produce leaflets for the carriage of pets,
can't recall seeing any?

Regards

Karl.

Muzzles can be very effective in retraining "difficult dogs", but I would be against the blanket regulation that you propose. If anything, your example is a sad indictment of how certain parents cant control their children these days, and this appears to have fed through to the dog concerned.

My partner has a Jack Russell, and far from "un-muzzled, you know was going to come!" we have had no problems with him whatsoever on trains. This is due to him having been introduced to kids and other social situations from the very beginning, and trained accordingly.

Hi Lee and all

The problem is though Lee that a lot of people
these days don't train their dogs properly, or
to the high standard that your partner has.  Most
are a pet and thats it, or especially the smaller
dogs are a fashion icon stuffed in a handbag!
Any dog thats has been in a hot stuffy coach for
hours, without being able to streach its legs e.t.c.
will get a bit tired and grumpy.  They after all
are an animal.

Not wishing to sound too H&S and PQ correct, but
I would feel safer knowing that if any dog was to
take a turn for worst on a train and was muzzled,
there is very little chance of it hurting someone.
And why should someone get hurt for the sake of
a dog not wearing a muzzle?  Getting a good quality
one that fits correctly, it shouldn't hurt the dog
anyway.  But if anyone can think of another
alternative, then I'm all ears or should that be
paws?!

Regards

Karl.

You're entitled to your view, Karl.

Indeed, some people dont treat or train their dogs properly, and having helped out with animal welfare charities in the past, unfortunately I am all too aware of the consequences that this can cause.

I also take your point about avoiding long journeys on trains without a break and/or on hot days. As with overcrowded trains, I plan journeys to avoid such issues occuring.

The problem I have is that it sounds too draconian to me, and would risk all train-travelling non-guide dog owners and their pets being seen as a potential threat, whether responsible/well behaved or not.

I hate dogs so in ideal world they would be banned except where useful (sheep dogs, guide dogs and the like). However, I can cope providing they just leave me alone - I don't want my arse to be sniffed or my face licked. So provided they are muzzled and are of the type that doesn't keep moving around I can handle.

Since we are expressing personal opinions here, which as Lee rightly says we are perfectly entitled to do, mine is that other than registered guide dogs, ALL animals and pets, along with bikes and sundry other bulky items, should be transported in an entirely separate compartment to people*.

I realise most trains don't have "guards vans" these days but nevertheless, that's where I believe they belong, both on the grounds of health, safety and practicality, not to mention the comfort and wellbeing of paying passengers.

If I were a TOC I would reintroduce luggage vans across the network and pay for them by charging people to use the facilities, so it's probably a good job I will never own anything bigger than a train set!


*quite honestly I can think of a few human beings I'd like to see isolated from the rest of the travelling public as well, but that's neither here nor there...

I agree, worst is when thares a big slobbery thing with 6 inches of drool hanging from it's bottom jaw and it's layed out in the disabled area so noone can put anything else there.

Aren't there byelaws which say that if you / something you're repsonsible for make an unreasonable nuisance of yourself, then you can be brought to account?   And that widens the subject to animals, children, large luggage items, mobile phones ... and perhaps your own perfume ...

I have seen a lot of well behaved "items" of all these sorts - and some examples of each that makes a nuisance of itself.  What a sad situation if we suggest penalising the throughful carer / owner because of the few not-so-thoughtful.

This thread could get really negative after a lead like that ... so shall we try to move on?   Thanks!

Nice one Graham!   :D

Its actually dog-walking time now, so naturally i'll be taking the lead with me.

As grahame says, probably time to move on....

Good, because far too many dog walkers don't use leads.

I live near acres of lovely woodland but it's basically unusable thanks to the dogs.  :-\