Great Western Coffee Shop

As I understand it - Cross Country will do this first, but soon ALL Tocs will implement the farced restrictions:

CDRs are to have evening peak restrictions M-F

Its called raising the fares by stealth.

Its awful and has been approved by the DafT.

Trust me, CDRs are not having restrictions on all TOCs. There will be total uproar if this is introduced onto the SWT network - specifically as when Super Off Peaks were introduced it was announced that there would not be evening peak restrictions on CDRs! Oh, and here's a quote from NewsRail Express - the secret publication (hihi vacman!!):

From 18 May, there will be important changes to the CrossCountry fares structure.
These changes include:
* Delivering a simpler, more transparent and fairer system for advanced travel through a structure based on
up to five levels of ticket, with many fares significantly cheaper than their current equivalent
* Providing clarity for customers, employees and retailers on when walk-up tickets can be used, by removing
13 different restrictions for Cheap Day tickets and eight restrictions for Savers.
* Aligning fare conditions with those used by other TOCs by adopting standard time restrictions for Saver
and Cheap Day tickets.
* Reducing opportunities for the misuse of return ticket portions on most short distance flows. Monthly return
tickets for short distance journeys have produced problems for revenue protection and are replaced by
day issue tickets of similar prices.
* Implementing the same First Class season ticket multiplier as other Intercity TOCs to remove anomalies,
and introducing a new First Saver Return on most flows to generate off-peak travel.

Prices of Group travel products and the Weekend Upgrade have remained unaltered.

Saver Fares

All restricted CrossCountry Saver fares will now use restriction code 2V regardless of the journey being made,
which introduces a standardised morning restriction on all flows. The restriction text from the fares manual is
shown below for information:

Validity Code
2V
Restriction Applies: Outward and Return travel, Monday to Friday only.
No travel restrictions on other days.
Outward and Return Journeys
By any train except those scheduled to depart before 09.30.

Where the Saver was previously an 8A restriction this has been amended to 8X so that the Saver remains
categorised as an Off-Peak fare in the September fare simplification of non-Advance Purchase products. The
8X restriction prevents travel before 0500 however the ticket can be used for travel at any time after. This will not
materially affect when customers can travel however it removes the need for the Standard Open ticket to be
repriced at the same level as the Saver fare.

Please also note that Saver Half tickets have been withdrawn on all CrossCountry priced flows, except flows
in the North West, which should be priced by Virgin (West Coast). Finally the railcard exemption from Saver
restrictions no longer applies to any CrossCountry priced flow or journey. Customers holding railcards will have
the Saver restriction applied to their journey and therefore can no longer travel during periods when Saver
tickets are not valid for travel.

Cheap Day Fares

All CrossCountry priced Cheap Day/Off Peak Day fares all now use restriction code BX. This introduces a morning
restriction identical to the 2V Saver restrictions and also introduces an evening restriction on Cheap Day tickets.
The new restriction removes some 13 different Cheap Day restrictions from the flows priced by CrossCountry.
Please note that there are no longer unrestricted Cheap Day fares and where necessary Standard Day fares
have been introduced to offer a travel anytime ticket. Additionally all flows where it is cheaper than the Day
Single fare, now offer a Cheap Day Single fare. For information the new restriction code text is shown below:

Validity
Code BX
Outward Travel Return Travel
By any train except those timed to depart
Mondays ^ Fridays before 0930 or between
1530 and 1815.
By any train except those timed to depart
Mondays ^ Fridays before 0930 or between
1530 and 1815.

First Saver Return

In addition to changes to the Saver and Cheap Day tickets, CrossCountry have also introduced First Saver
Return tickets on most flows where the Saver ticket is restricted. The First Saver Return is priced at approximately
1.5 times the First Open single fare and all First Saver Return tickets use restriction code 2V. If customers are
travelling outside of peak periods these tickets offer customers flexibility and First Class travel without having to
purchase the Full Open fare or purchase their ticket in Advance of travel.

First Class Season Tickets

Please note that from May 2008, First Class season tickets will use the 1.7 times multiplier rather than 1.5. In most
cases the First Class fare will quote on retailing systems, however some flows may not have a First Class season
ticket priced. If no price exists for a First Class season ticket and the flow is priced by CrossCountry please
multiply the Standard Class season ticket price by 1.7 to obtain the First Class fare.

Removal of Period Returns on short distance flows

From May 2008, period return fares have been removed from most flows with a distance of less than 50 miles,
to prevent repeated use of tickets. Where no Standard Day Return fare previously existed, as the Saver fare was
unrestricted we have introduced an Standard Day Return fare at the same rate as the Saver, and have also
introduced Cheap Day Return fares where these did not previously exist.

Group Travel

CrossCountry offer two different group travel products, the XC SmallGroup product and offers a discount of
25% when between 3 and 9 passengers travel off the Advance Standard 3 fare. This product can be retailed
through all outlets in the same way as the Advance Purchase tickets. For Groups in excess of 10 passenger^s
rail appointed travel agents and TOC group travel departments are able to retail the Saver tickets with Group
discount. CrossCountry dedicated Group fares for Groups in excess of 10 passengers; however these can only
be issued at the present time through our Group Travel department.

Advance Purchase Fares

CrossCountry are revising the price levels and availability of their Advance fares from May 2008.
In line with Fares Simplification, the different levels will no longer be advertised and the message to customers
is that Advance fares are subject to availability and to book as far in advance as possible to get the cheapest
fares.

Cheers for clearing that up Tom.

How many CDR fares do Cross Country control prices for?
So that means you can travel on Cross Country services between 15:30 and 18:00 as long as they didn't price the fair.
So Plymouth-Exeter would be fine as FGW price that.
If what I think is right it will cause so much confusion.

They don't control much in the south west. Mainly fares in the Midlands and east, such as Cambridge to Melton Mowbray.

How does your average punter work out who prices what?

This HASN'T been thought through!

It has - who is honestly going to read that when it's in a private railway only publication?

Thetrainline or fgwtickets or your preferred booking office should tell you of the restrictions on a ticket if you ask for it.

But how many people buy CDRs from the internet?

More than you think ;)

Besides the TVMs that FGW use have a big row called Restrictions!! :p

I must be thick but it's as clear as mud to me.
Agree with you entirely.


"Should tell you of restrictions" Not good enough. It should be "must".

2V as quoted by Tom should be the only restiction. It's easy to understand After 09:30 weekdays, and all day Saturdays Sundays.

I used to hate selling "off peak returns" from various staions in South London in the 60s trying to ascertain when the passenger was returning and explaing they couldn't use a pink ticket between 16:30 and 18:30 or 4.30 pm 6.30pm  as it was then. It's no wonder BR dropped it, it was more trouble enforcing it than it was worth.

What we really want are local tariff unions as in Germany (which we have a form of in London). One set of fares for all public transport  in the given area RE R and S bahn trains, trams, trolleybuses and buses. Plus day tickets and group day tickets for single and multiple zones. EG 22 Euros for an all zone Dresden area for 5 people.

Of course our problem is that we don't have a clear distinction between ICE and IC and local trains. We try to use ICE and ICs as local trains to save running a connecting stopper. So that you can't choose to travel from say London to Exeter as you can from Berlin to Dresden at 35 Euros each in 2 hours on an IC/EC (FGW) or 52 Euros for 5 people on an RE (SW) with one change in just under 3 hours. It's even easy for the passengers if it's silver with a red band it's an IC if it's all red it's an RE.

That's pretty dreadful, to be honest- another twisted scheme thought up by some simpering twit in their ivory tower. The fare structure as it is now is fine. Adding restrictions on day returns will confuse and anger people- CDR's are a great way of getting out outside the morning peak for a nice day out and coming in at a sensible time. It ensures people going to work are paying a higher fare as they will be using the peak trains. It seems like side-stepping the real issue- overcrowded services- and forcing honest fare-paying people out into early or late trains. It's especially bad news for those with railcards, like me.

It's not at all clear to me either. Do restrictions apply after you've already boarded? How about fares crossing over onto other TOCs or lines? It will be mayhem unless clear information is given to everyone who buys a CDR in a CC area.

Graz, I would assume that CC as part of their franchise agreement would have to make it quite clear that CC priced flows will be subject to these restrictions. It does not matter which TOC you travel on, if the flow is priced by CC then that restriction will apply.

eightf48544, I think restriction 8X is the best one - apparently under the new rules Savers can't be unrestricted!!!  :D