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Title: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: alan_s on September 03, 2020, 19:19:20 Looking at brfares.com an off-peak return (SVR) BPW-PAD is valid from 08:45. (restrictions LC). Yet GWR and other booking sites are not selling this for the 08:56 and insist it is a peak service. National rail still lists LC restriction as 08:45. So why is the 08:56 now a peak service? Or have all ticket codes changed recently and BRfares not been updated?
Title: Re: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: stuving on September 03, 2020, 19:55:03 It's a case of text and data don't match. BRFares is fed by the same data feeds and journey planners are, and also reads the text that is accessible to all on NRE's site. In this case the machine-readable version (also on BRFares under "unpublished restrictions" says:
Not valid to depart BRISTOL PARKWAY 0531–0859 on any TOC The tow sources do match for other stations, with BRI at 8:30 and CPM at 8:45, Swindon at 9:10. For BPW to be 9:00 does look out of line, doesn't it? GWR do get embarrassed by this kind of mistake, but there's no way of predicting which will be changed if you point it out to them! Title: Re: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: alan_s on September 03, 2020, 21:10:35 Thanks for your prompt and detailed reply. I'd not noticed those "unpublished restrictions" before. It does seem a bit cheeky that the TOC can just add this in and it's invisible to the normal traveller even when in possession of a ticket and checks NRE for the limitations.
Someone in all innocence could by a SVR in advance for the 9.56, read the ticket, follow the link to the NRE page, see the entry for BPW says 08.45, no mention of 08.59, so could genuinely believe it would be valid an hour earlier at 8.56 Title: Re: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: stuving on September 03, 2020, 22:26:30 That's not quite what I meant - perhaps I should spell out how it works a bit more.
Online journey planners work off a huge heap of data on fares, the timetable, network topology, and routeing. None of this is published - nor is it readable by people (even if it's mostly text files). The restrictions are also set out as text, and these are published on the NRE site, for example in nre.co.uk/lc (http://nre.co.uk/lc). BRFares takes the fares data files and presents them in a form we can read. It also takes the restriction code from NRE, and shows that almost unaltered (it now adds a bit of fancy formatting). The "unpublished restrictions" are only unpublished in the sense that they are part of the data feeds, intended for internal railway industry use. But they should match the text - and that's probably a legal requirement! So if they don't agree, it's not a sneaky trick it's a cock-up. I think (from observation and guesswork) the restriction data is produced with a lot of computer help but far from automatically; the text is produced by humans. I guess that editing the old text is the easiest way to do that, but is error-prone. There's a lot of scope for silliness, some of which has been reported on the forum. This is partly due to the crude way GWR define restrictions at each station, blocking all trains within narrow time intervals. They can (and do) sometimes disallow travel by accident, where the times are based on one line's timetable and happen to catch trains on connecting line. All told, restrictions are a very messy bit of the system. Title: Re: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: eightf48544 on September 04, 2020, 12:11:02 The whole fares system is a mess. Who is going be Alexander and cut the Knot?
Title: Re: Have Off Peak Times changed recently? Post by: Lee on September 04, 2020, 14:47:08 The whole fares system is a mess. Who is going be Alexander and cut the Knot? Luckily enough, Alexander was in charge when this forum first started in 2007. Let's go back in time and see how he dealt with the thorny issue of off-peak fares: From the BBC: (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/mobile/england/6660807.stm) Quote from: BBC MPs condemn rail fare price hike The government is being called on to stop a rail operator from putting up fares by up to 20%. The rise on South West Trains (SWT) from Sunday affects services coming into London after the rush-hour "peak". The Liberal Democrats have tabled a Commons motion condemning the increase as "excessive" and calling for a review of the regulation of rail fares. Transport Secretary Douglas Alexander has said he is limited in what he can do as only peak fares are regulated. The SWT rise means passengers will not get off-peak discounts until much later in the morning. No case Mr Alexander told the Commons on Tuesday: "The fares at off-peak times are not regulated fares. "Although I understand that there was real concern and public interest in the fares that were announced, it is important to emphasise that that those are not fares set by government. "There must be a degree of flexibility for train companies to set prices against other modes of available transport, but I would urge all train companies to act responsibly when considering the setting of unregulated fares." David Laws, the Lib Dem work and pensions spokesman, who has tabled the motion, said the company had failed to "provide an adequate business case" for the decision. However, SWT has insisted that the new prices will bring the company into line with other operators and allow it to "better match demand and pricing". Examples of the increases, which were first announced in March, include a cheap day return from Alton, in Hampshire, to London rising from £15.80 to £19 - a 20.25% increase. A Bournemouth-to-London cheap day return will go up from £36.40 to £43.70 - a 20.05% rise. Oh wait... This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |