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Title: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 25, 2020, 11:08:15 Quote The owner of a super yacht and commercial boat-building company is planning to trial two high-tech passenger ferries between Bristol and Cardiff. https://www.bristolpost.co.uk/news/bristol-news/super-yacht-owner-trial-passenger-4258290Connor Johnson, director of Plymouth-based Patriot Yachts, says he is in talks with companies in the USA, Serbia and Turkey over the technology for the hydrogen-propelled boats. His plan is to ship passenger ferries built by Turkish firm ARC Solar Yachts to Britain and then convert them to contain hydrogen tanks. The next step would be to trial the two vessels, 19 metres and 12 metres long and costing more than one million euros for the pair, as water taxis running between the two cities. The larger of the two catamarans would contain 52 passengers, with the smaller holding 42. “They will be coming over in the next eight weeks,” Mr Johnson said. “We have one design done already and are in the process of putting the hydrogen (technology) together for the engines. We are going to run them as water taxis from Cardiff to Bristol." Interesting, if it happens. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: patch38 on June 25, 2020, 11:33:38 Very interesting. But it seems odd to be converting solar-powered vessels to hydrogen. Are we to assume that the Bristol Channel isn't sunny enough to make them work efficiently?
Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 25, 2020, 12:38:41 It would be good to have some information about that. Presumably the solar panels and fuel cells will run in tandem, delivering varying proportions of power according to the weather. I guess it's easier to fill the tanks with hydrogen each night in case the sun doesn't shine than make the sun shine in case there's no fuel in the cell!
I'm not entirely sure what "water taxi" implies for a vessel carrying 42 people, I suppose it's something like "no fixed timetable, the boat leaves when there are enough people on board". I'd like to know the journey time too. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: johnneyw on June 25, 2020, 12:45:09 I wonder where they mean by Bristol? It could mean the old harbour but nowadays, it could mean Avonmouth. If the article is correct, it looks like the delivery of the ships will be fairly soon. Presumably the arrival and departure points have already been organised.
Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: martyjon on June 25, 2020, 13:32:03 I doubt this will ever work with the tides that prevail in the Bristol Channel. Already to cast off and It's low tide, hmm.
Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: paul7575 on June 25, 2020, 13:45:20 Someone tried a small water taxi type operation in the fairly sheltered Solent a few years ago. First time there was some slightly rough weather the service disappeared for good.
12m craft across the Severn estuary? Really? Paul Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: eightf48544 on June 25, 2020, 14:02:52 Someone tried a small water taxi type operation in the fairly sheltered Solent a few years ago. First time there was some slightly rough weather the service disappeared for good. 12m craft across the Severn estuary? Really? Paul I've done it 3 times in a 50' narrowboat Bristol to Sharpness via Portishead dock. Twice up and once down. Fortunately pretty calm all 3 times, but you don't half feel small with a car carrier coming up fast behind. Wouldn't like to do it with any kind of chop the tides hairy enough especially through the old bridge and getting into Sharpness.. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: infoman on June 25, 2020, 16:27:21 I have heard Lydney docks is another struggle to get into,
and don't me going abut the two million pounds that has ben awarded to Lydney docks by the government within the last two years Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: Celestial on June 25, 2020, 17:31:50 If it doesn't come right up the Avon then any connecting transport they put on will make the journey times uncompetitive, especially in the rush hour. And if it does, then apart from the tide issue, there will be a relatively low speed limit to slow down the journey so it will still be uncompetitive.
It reminds me of the plan a few years ago to run some sort of fast service from Minehead (I think?) to South Wales. That never saw the light of day, to no great surprise. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: broadgage on June 25, 2020, 18:57:33 Back in the old days, Minehead had a local gas works located near the RNLI station. It closed when natural gas displaced coal gas, though the gas holders survived until recently.
The coal came from south Wales in small ships, and these used to carry the odd passenger, or items of luggage, or the odd animal in addition to coal. AFAIK this was strictly unofficial being a bit of "beer money" for the crew. Returning to the present, hydrogen fuel cells seem a very odd way to power a small ferry. Hydrogen is inherently expensive, explosive, bulky and awkward to handle. Fuel cells are also bulky and expensive. Batteries seem more sensible, charged from the existing PV modules or from a shore supply if the PV is not sufficient. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: eXPassenger on June 25, 2020, 19:07:19 I agree that I cannot see this working at the Bristol end. Docking at Avonmouth is too far from Bristol and use of the Avon to the Floating Harbour is dependant on the tides and the timing of the lock gates assuming it fits under the Plimsoll Bridge and that does not have to be swung.
Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: stuving on June 25, 2020, 19:36:07 There are more general reasons for scepticism. The equivalent article of BristolLive goes on to say:
Quote His firm has been in discussion with Serbian aircraft manufacturer Aero East to build “short-haul planes for 20 to 80 passengers using hydrogen propulsion only and fuel cells”. The crowdfunding page for his bid to reopen Appledore says he raised precisely zilch. And I found one of those business profile listings for PSY saying it had a total of two employees - and this is their current pitch (https://patriotsuperyachts.com/investment.php):“We will be designing a new hydrogen engine and new aircraft design for both the private and commercial sectors in aviation. It is a great place for reducing carbon footprint," he said. “We have designed a six-seater twin prop, and could go up to 50 to 80 passengers.” Mr Johnson said that, if all the consents needed are obtained, the aircraft could be flying within two years. “Hydrogen aviation R&D will start in three months,” he said. Want Bristol news straight to your inbox? Sign up to our daily newsletter using the box at the top of this article, read all about what's involved here, or click here to see all of our newsletters Patriot Super Yachts, which has addresses in Plymouth, London and Florida, describes itself as “a leading, full-service, luxury yachting company specializing in management, refits, sales, chartering and new builds”. In 2019, Mr Johnson made headlines when he announced a move to raise £400,000 to buy the lease on the closed down Appledore Shipyard in North Devon. He said the Appledore project is still ongoing and he is working on obtaining finance, including from a share offer via his website. Quote It is a difficult time now and we all have so much and so many people to be thankful to. We are approaching a time when the world, people and economy will be very different from how we remembered it.We will look at the changes, some of them positive,communities coming together,the environment and the positive impact that just a few months has made. Patriot Yachts International has secured the majority of 1.1b funds to purchase two ship yards and to develop the facilities for manufacturing environmentally friendly hydrogen fuel. The hydrogen will fuel the next generation of cars, planes and ships. We are developing, manufacturing and building this technology to make this happen now rather than later. The business model is designed to reward those companies, and individuals that invest in the company . The initial shares are £1. With a minimum purchase of £100 shares and a £25 administration fee. The intention is to float the company on 2021-22 on the AIM stock market where shares are predicted to open in excess of £7 based on current comparisons.In line with the ethos of the company we would like to start by offering. We have been looking for a way to thank those frontline workers for their amazing effort and sacrifice. We would like to boost their investments in the company by 25% by giving them 25% more shares when they invest. Because of the combined nature and structure of our business model we would also like to invite those who are self employed in the travel, marine, event and aviation industries to join us and invest. As industries they have experienced more change than any other. We would like to offer them 10% extra shares on any investments they make or through our affiliate partner scheme to earn that 10% reward themselves on all investment they bring. Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: broadgage on June 25, 2020, 19:56:29 "Hydrogen mania" may be the new equivalent of the old "tulip bulb mania"
Title: Re: Fuel-cell ferries Bristol to Cardiff? Post by: Bmblbzzz on June 25, 2020, 22:39:20 If it's no higher than the boat in the photo then it will certainly fit under the Plymsoll Bridge. As for draft, I'm sure it's less than many ships currently using the floating harbour, though it might need to take care of tides. If it's limited to navigating the Avon at high tides, that might still be feasible for leisure travellers, who also won't be comparing the time taken to car or train. Business travellers are going to want some kind of advantage over those methods, so it's either going to have to be quicker or cheaper. Information is lacking as yet.
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