Great Western Coffee Shop

From Ian Visits (https://www.ianvisits.co.uk/blog/2020/04/14/british-rails-short-experiment-with-travelling-pubs/)

Mock Tudor trolley anyone?

Weren't they SR Bullied? I think they were officially called Tavern Cars and were used on the Waterloo Exeter line.

Yes. There was always one on the 6pm ex Waterloo. My Dad loved them, but I disliked the lack of windows. Always packed as far as Salisbury, but empty thereafter. Sandwiches were freshly made to order and very tasty - although a poor substitute for 'dinner in the diner'.

I never remember seeing one in the consist of the morning up trains (usually the 6.30 or 7.30 off Exeter) - perhaps they travelled up later in the day, because it would have been a nightmare re marshalling those sets.

On a similar subject, but drifting the thread through at least 90⁰, my memory of the longest regular train through Castle Cary  was the Summer Friday evening down empty restaurant cars. These were fully staffed, but I never asked what sleeping arrangements were in place for the staff. Any one know more of that?

I've read about the Restaurant Car trians to the West Country. They were I believe dropped off at various places to be marshalled into UP Summer Saturday trains from places like Kingswear, Newquay, Penzance.

How and where the re marshalling was done and where the crew slept I don't know. But in those days the railway seemed to be able to perform such feats.

I've just been reading a book on Rails in Valleys which describes the rail services in the South Rail Valleys.
 
In particular the coal trade where one ship might required 12 1000 ton trains to fill. All of which had to arrive in time and be tipped in the quickest possible time to meet the sailing date, and that was only for one ship from one colliery. Just in time is not new.

Then there was the evening return excursions from Barry Island on a Sunday 30 plus tarins in 3 hours!

I would pay good money to travel in a recreated Tavern Car. Perhaps on a heritage line. I cant see any such returning on the national network, where the emphasis is on downgrading or entirely removing catering, not on adding new facilities.

I can remember restaurant cars on services from Waterloo, though not the tavern cars. These days not one service from Waterloo has anything better than a trolley, and most don't get even that.

Back along two of us did a 7 day SR rover ticket and had lunch on the Bournemouth Belle, price then £5; a very enjoyable trip, Merchant hauled.

The economic problems with specialist carriages - some hinted at in comments above ...
... they are only really used for small parts of the day (drink at the "Hedgehog and Carrot" on your way into work on the 06:30?) and are awkward to diagram
... they carry fewer passengers per metre / yard of carriage
... they require a higher level of specialist staffing
and I wonder (briefly) how the 153 recreation carriages are going to work on the West Highland line; probably not too bad against those criteria; probably useful on all trains, and no extra staff needed (I don't think the plan to have travelling engineers to service bicycles during the journey lasted beyond midday on 1st April).

It's looking at loadings like this that have me realise just how fortunate we are on the Coffee Shop ... with a loading profile that would make any TOC jealous ... from Easter 2019, and Easter 2020.   Figures are sessions per hour;  numbers down a little in 2020 over 2019 due to a reduced number of guests - but our drop in "casual" visitors pales into insignificance beside the railways drop in "casual" (optional travel) customers. 

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/siteloading201904.jpg)

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/siteloading202004.jpg)

As is well known, I am a fan of on train catering.
I doubt the accuracy of todays mantra about the little use made of such facilities  and the excessive costs.

The modern tendency is towards fixed formation multiple unit trains, IETs and the like. There is no real reason why a long fixed formation unit could not incorporate a proper buffet.
If reliably provided and offering a suitable choice of refreshment, such a facility would be well used in both rush hours.
Only a few diehards want alcoholic drink in the morning rush hour, but there is a demand for real coffee, bacon rolls, and related products in the morning peak, with alcohol and "pub snacks" being popular in the evening peak.
As regards the oft quoted space "wasted" by catering, I am not convinced.
A standard class IET vehicle has about 88 seats. It should be possible to design a new IET buffet car with a large central servery and longitudinal seating at each end with a total capacity of about 45.
At busy times, many customers would CHOOSE to stand in such a facility, just as many stand in public houses, despite seats being available. If about 45 people stand THROUGH CHOICE in the rush hours, then the total passenger capacity would be similar to a standard class seated coach.
I doubt that those standing in the old tavern cars complained about this !

For those unaware, my objections to the IETs are primarily the effective absence of catering and the hard seats. I don't object to the principle of bi mode operation, indeed I consider this to be a considerable advantage.
Add a buffet car, and fit padded seats, and I would consider them acceptable modern trains.

The door was slightly ajar, and in barged Broadgage...  ;)

I must admit I'd never known he had an interest in these issues? Has he ever mentioned buffets before?

Once or twice I believe.

Not for some time though.

A replica traveling pub might go down well on some of the heritage rail tours across the UK, perhaps especially outside of the peak season, whenever they start again.

To be called "the broadgage tavern" of course.

Yes, that has a certain ring to it although it would be unfortunate if the tavern's inclusion resulted in unruly behaviour brought about by overzealous Port based refreshment by the customers. 😧

Most unlikely to be a problem. Gentlemen know that Port is for savouring in modest volumes with or immediately after the sweet or cheese course of a meal, it is not for quaffing in quantity.
Port is also the proper* drink with which to drink the Loyal Toast to the sovereign.
Whilst not everyone is a gentleman, most non gentlemen do not know what Port is.

Beer is for quaffing by the pint in a public house or tavern, preferably good quality draught beer, though bottled beer is an acceptable alternative.

*At informal occasions, the Loyal Toast may be taken in beer, or wine, but for a formal dinner, Port is the proper drink. Those who do not wish to drink Port, should take a little water.
It is not considered proper to drink the Loyal Toast in strong spirits, nor in mixed drinks or cocktails containing strong spirits.

Well, that's us told!  :)

Nice to dream of the return of rail tours - but not with Tavern cars. They really were very claustrophobic, and would suit only those who wanted to get paralytic - quickly (and expensively) - at 60 mph.

Going back to the summer restaurant cars, I twice travelled up on a Summer Saturday. The heavy 8.15 Perranporth - Paddington served only Perranporth, St Agnes, and, I think, picked up at St Austell. But it carried the full restaurant car, although on Saturdays they served only a set three course meal, the main course being a salad, as did the car (or cars) on the 1030 up Limited, serving only Penzance, Gwinear Road and Truro, I think, when I travelled. The latter service had four sittings of lunch, 11.30 and then hourly. A tough shift for the crew.

Found it eventually !

https://alongthesetracks.blogspot.com/2018/05/the-tavern-that-travelled-on-rails.html

Splendid, bring them back.
"hated by everyone, except by those who actually used them" Bit like buffets on HSTs.

Still...  ;D

...or sparkling, if you really want to be fancy.

Any Port in a storm.

Port should not be sparkling. If it is found to be sparkling it is probably firstly not in fact real port, and secondly it is probably going bad, or already gone bad.

Now you tell me  ???

Can it be drunk accompanied with a Scotch egg?

I have been.

Are you certain that the restaurant cars were staffed ?
It seems more probable to me that the restaurant staff either lived in the west country, or if resident in/near London that they traveled West on an earlier train to join the pre-positioned and stocked restaurants.
Or the train might have contained a sleeper car ?

Yes. They were definitely staffed - the crews were very visible on board - some even gave a wave to the Box on the way past. I am pretty sure I would remember if there were sleeping cars. The load was always at least 16, so there would have been a lot of staff, besides the individual cars (or sets) were presumably broken out to get to their differing stabling points of origin on the Friday night.

As a varient on the tavern car ... I came across the story of something else in The Drive (https://www.thedrive.com/news/38221/the-mctrain-the-rise-and-fall-of-mcdonalds-ambitious-plan-to-conquer-the-railroads)


Not a great success in Germany and Switzerland according to the report; would it have done better on "The Clansman"? Would it work in 2021?

Yes it would, and my new years resolution is now to ensure all trains on the McCarhaix-McGuingamp line are so fitted ASAP.

Not very keen on burgers.
Polite description of a burger "made from all parts of a cow except for the beefsteak and the leather"
Less polite description "lips, eyes, udders, ears, and the other bits that we dont know what they are"

However the facilities presumably COULD be used to make bacon rolls, fried egg rolls, and other hot snacks, perhaps even mini steak in a bread bun.

Posting a poll - JUST FOR FUN ... will add link in a few minutes at http://gwr.passenger.chat/24431