Great Western Coffee Shop

Gordon Brown last night put First Great Western on notice to improve or lose its franchise, saying, ^m on the side of the passenger^ (link below.)
http://icwales.icnetwork.co.uk/news/politics-news/2008/04/01/brown-tells-first-great-western-it-s-near-the-end-of-the-line-91466-20699519/

In an interview with the Western Mail, the Prime Minister said he was aware of the problems being experienced by people travelling by rail between South Wales and London, and said it was time for improvements.


More article links.
http://thisiscornwall.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144125&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232510&home=yes&more_nodeId1=232470&contentPK=20284587

http://thisisbristol.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144913&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231190&home=yes&more_nodeId1=144922&contentPK=20287524

As well as warning the firm that its franchise would be withdrawn if serious improvements were not made, Mr Brown said cash had been set aside for investment in all forms of public transport over the next three years.

First spokesman Lance Cole said:

I have to say... I think that it won't be long now. If First do not up their game.

What will happen to First's HSTs (I think they own some) - will the gov compulsory purchase them?

Shame- it looked like FGW was getting back on track...

On the surface it sounds great, the government on the side of the people, etc, however, as I have not a single electron of confidence in anyone at no. 10 I'll take this with a giant mountain of salt........

With all the current fuss about T5, it's hard to imagine how the government has allowed FGW saga to drift for this long.

FGW have certainly improved over this time, but the drop in service when they took over has still not been resolved.

The irony of the government cancelling FGW contract is that NR and DfT must share part of the blame

Any HST currently owned by First will remain owned by First and can be leased by the next franchise holder if required - if not, I can see them going to Hull Trains!

Havn't things improved  ???

Ever heard of political posturing, because that's all this is, just in time for the local elections. He can't very well say it's all been going swimmingly, can he?

As is clear from what Brown said, he (like Ruth Kelly) doesn't actually know what he's talking about, as he says FGW "is now required to produce a remedial plan". There are umpteen remedial plans in place already, not least the joint FGW-Network Rail one to deal with lousy punctuality.

And the DfT mandarins really don't want to dump FGW, because if this happened their role would come under just as much scrutiny as First's failings, such as the franchising process itself and rolling stock allocations. And as the rail regulator made clear last week, Network Rail deserves a good slice of the blame too.

This is a very different situation from Connex South East being stripped of its franchise, where the operator's performance just stank and it was showing no signs of getting to grips with the problems. FGW is far from perfect, but there has been a marked improvement since the debacle at the end of December and start of January.

What we need now is a sustained period of managers concentrating on driving up performance. A government takeover and refranchising would distract everyone from this and see Andrew Haines and other senior managers who now have a handle on the situation going off to do other jobs within First Group, putting things back to square one for months on end.

As for senior managers going to other positions within First Group - not necessarily. The DfT could kindly 'request' (or more, force unofficially) a TUPE transfer to a new franchise.

FGW may be trying hard behind the scenes.

But all they're doing is playing catch-up to what people have every right to expect in terms of efficiency.

They're currently like a Sainsbury's where 4 days out of 5 the milk and fresh fruit hasn't arrived.

That needs sorting, fast.

But also, passengers need to feel that they are being put first, not First Group shareholders.

And until that happens, people will not stand up and defend FGW.

I think you should all read the comments that have been posted on the "this is cornwall" website, they've been posted by the general public and even they seem pee'd off with the constant criticism, we all know that the Western Morning News is an anti rail Tory rag. the government are the ones who f***ed it up in the start and now they've passed the buck, mind you what do you expect from this government, things are vastly improving day by day in the FGW camp but this isn't good enough for the press, oh no, good news doesn't sell!!

This is now turning into a Witch hunt fullstop, from what i can see FGW are improving, they have got hold of extra units , are employing extra staff, refurbishing Stations, trains etc.
If the governmemt want to remove First and give the Franchise to some other Toc, who is going to take it on remember it will be..... the Same Trains,.. Same Staff ...,Same Tracks ..and above all same problems

Ho-hum...yes, it is more than a coincidence that Brown should come out with this when the elections are coming up. It does seem little more than a voting tool to bash an easy target (FGW) to win praise.

The Prime minister (Blair at the time) should have said this last year when FGW sank the rail system as we know it into new lows, and the condescending directors didn't give a jot. Now FGW (Mr Haines in particular!) are listening to passengers, improving trains and reliability-- it just smacks of slow old Mr Brown being a year late! Yes FGW are still far from perfect by a long way and there are times when critisism is still due. But things are a thousand times better than this time last year.

I believe FGW are "trying" to improve their service. I think they are genuinely worried about losing their franchise, a new MD, better refunds for tickets, the return of free off-peak first class for season ticket holders, and less cancelled trains. One of the things that really annoyed me was the cancelling or revising of trains so they missed half their route. Rather than doing the best thing by passengers, they were minimising the penalties for a late train by revising it or cancelling it all together.

Having said this, I think there is still a long way to go.

Whilst FGW are certainly improving the service, there are still too many problems!

I'm not convinced that any TOC can improve the service at a better rate, but surely something should be done to punish FGW/NR for the appalling service.

If First Group where to lose their largest and most profitable service, then perhaps next time they will not cut services and increase profits at the expense of customers. Remember the only reason when AH is now in place, and FGW are investing is that FG have been warned by the government.

Likewise, Network Rail should be punished for the poor state of the rail infrastructure in the West. Whilst investing in the West Coast Line is important, ignoring  and allowing a most of you network faults to occur in the FGW franchise area is a double customers. It is about time that the DfT hit senior management bonuses at NR.

Aren't you forgetting someone else who should be punished? I'll give you a clue, DEPARTMENT FOR TRANSPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I think we each take a look at our our journeys and our own areas when we form our own opinions as to how well, or otherwise, things have gone.  And so, based on my own view ...

If you start off with a "score" of 100 when First took over, then you may have seen it rise to 105 or 110 in the first hundred days. We saw station signs proudly transformed, we quickly saw new uniforms worn by the staff, and we read a letter at the end of that 100 days telling us of the other improvements.  But alas we were driving towards a cliff edge - we knew it, and some of us alerted First to the fact that service changes they wer going to make in December would move their score down from the excellent at the time, though the good and mediocre levels to "fail".  And - goodness - how they fell!

I hesistate to score at the moment. 20 out of 100?    60% of services cut.  Timing of remaining ones crass. Weekend runs hardly ever even run. Weekday cancellations often over 10%. Buy on the weekday cheapest fare to London up from 38 pounds to 115 pounds.

Indeed - the new broom should be given time.  But the history isn't kind to new brooms on our line. They come in, they listen, they sympathise, and they do nothing or they run a consultation to find what you feel you need /should have, then do the opposite.

As far as I'm concerned, they're still doing pretty badly.  They get goodwill, in increasingly diminishing amounts after each letdown, for listening and talking.  But there's a prize there to be had now.   A confirmation of a fix for the issues that have pulled them down to 20/100 - and that fix has been discussed.  Let's get it back close to the 100.  A sensible commuter train. A sensible other service. And that means a service on which sensible fares are charged.

If FGW make those changes under Mr Haines then - yes - they will be able to take the franchise forward and make positive developenments at last even from where we were - with a rapidly growing passenger count on the TransWilts - when they took over exactly 2 years ago today

Fair comment graham, and Melksham may well be suffering, but by the end of next year most other routes on FGW will be seeing some major improvements and more trains than they've seen in over 50 years, one of them is Gunnislake and another I can't disclose yet as it's still in the finalising stage but it's a line that has had a sub standard service since before Melksham was even reopened.
As for Melksham I haven't heard anything from the "powers that be" for a while, but like I said, watch this space. Oh, and these improved services are not being funded by any third parties!

Andrew Haines is also First Group's rail division managing director, so he'd be off straight away, and how could you dump First, then keep on its senior FGW managers, if they're doing so badly?


Where do you think all the money that NR was fined (^14m I think) by the ORR for its recent foul-ups has gone? Back into the rail industry? No - to the Treasury.

So all that 'punishing' NR and FGW would do is take out even more money that could otherwise be spent on putting things right. Or do you really think another period of upheaval, uncertainty and recrimination is going to help get the rail network in the Thames Valley and West of England back in shape?

The service cuts were at the behest of the DfT and Haines arrived before any Government ministers got on their high horses about FGW - probably because they didn't pay the situation any attention until they twigged it could be bad news for Labour politically, with a number of key marginal seats in the FGW area - even if the rail franchise system was invented by the lot in blue rosettes, just in case anyone's forgotten.

I^ll post this from me personally, not as a moderator: I don^t work for FGW, I^m just a commuter / passenger / customer:

I think the article itself puts this into its proper perspective: ^Mr Brown, gearing up for a series of tough local elections across Wales and England on May 1 ^  will say whatever is convenient, and if that includes bashing one particular TOC, that^s just what he^ll do.  In the spirit of ^spin^ - don^t let the facts get in the way of a good headline.

I don^t know when Gordon ^m on the side of the passenger^ Brown last actually travelled by FGW, but I use them just about every weekday, and some weekends as well.  I have found their service much better over the past couple of months: fair enough, the December 2007 timetable was a bit of a disaster in its introduction (that^s why I joined this forum, after all!) and FGW have acknowledged there were problems - but their service has been getting steadily better since January.  It^s therefore rather mean to criticise them now by saying ^they^ve got to start improving or else^: they are already much improved!

Andrew Haines has set up a good team ^ people with a proven ability to turn things around.  I think they should be allowed to get on with the job they^ve started - don^t give them a hard time now, when they are actually starting to make a difference!

I also think there should be some scrutiny of the role played in this by Network Rail and the Department for Transport: it^s not really fair to pick on just one of the three protagonists in this.  Or is it perhaps not so politically convenient for a politician to be seen to be criticising the other two organisations involved ^ ?

Personally, I think we are in danger of ignoring the role of the now-defunct organisation who devised the Greater Western Franchise in the first place :

Under the Strategic Rail Authority, the following occured :

- The Rail Passenger Partnership scheme (which, among many other worthy causes, would have provided the funding to reopen Corsham station) was scrapped to save money.

- An aggressive policy of favouring fast services over stopping/rural services was persued. This was embodied in the SRA's Wider Case for Rail strategy, which admitted what government advisers had privately been saying for some time: 'Rail is best when it provides fast, long distance passenger services ... commuter services on busy corridors ... services to major airports [and] rail freight services for regular high volume flows.'

- Etruria station was closed, and other stations in that area had their train service completely withdrawn.

- A policy of employing consultants (at huge expense) to carry out even the most minor of tasks was implemented.

- The Oxford-Bristol service was withdrawn, which prompted the SRA view that Corsham station could not be reopened because there was no longer a service that could call there.

- The ludicrously flawed Great Western Main Line Route Utilisation Strategy was released. This has since been virtually disowned by Network Rail, who will be releasing their own version in the next couple of years.

- The Greater Western Franchise was devised on the basis of flawed figures provided by consultants who were allowed to propose closure options as part of their brief.

They did strip Connex "please can we have an extra ^200m in subsidy to continue not providing a train service" South Eastern of their franchise though, and there were a few other positive things left as a legacy, some of which are mentioned in the link below.
http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/releases/sra/2004/2004a/143millionwestcountryrailinv1190

The bad far outweighed the good though.

Some might argue that former SRA chairman Richard Bowker and National Express are victims of DfT policy. Indeed, Bowker put forward a similar argument in the article link below, where he also pledged "a swift turnaround as the route relaunches as National Express East Coast" :
http://www.rmtbristol.org.uk/2007/12/east_coast_rail_service_vows_r.html#more


A bit different from what he said in the 2002 Strategic Rail Authority announcement of intention to create a new Greater Western rail franchise by no later than 2006 (link below) :
http://www.dft.gov.uk/press/releases/sra/20022/2004b/sraannouncesnewfranchisefort1533


I am sorry, but sometimes one just has to accept that what goes around comes around.

Quotes from a recent National Express-related article (and its comments section) originally posted on this forum (link below) :
http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard/article-23457587-details/To+hell+and+back+from+King%27s+Cross/article.do


I have many problems with the DfT's policy towards the railways, but I am thankful for small mercies, one of which is that Richard Bowker and the Several Redundant Accountants are no longer responsible for setting it.

Also, although the DfT must take a large share of the responsibility for all this, we shouldnt forget that FGW are by no means blameless. As well as making some cuts above and beyond what they had to do when bidding for the franchise and underestimating demand, what happened with Melksham/Transwilts is a very good example (link below) :
http://indefenceoffirstgreatwestern.blogspot.com/2007/11/answering-some-questions.html

My comment :


Insider's comment :


Quote from vacman earlier in this topic :


Good, and I for one cant wait to see that happen. However, if FGW really are in the business of funding significant service improvements off their own backs, then I heartily recommend the TransWilts as the perfect candidate to add to that list (link below.)
http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/pledge.html

That would go a long way to proving their sincerity in turning over a new leaf in my book.

But FGW can't be judged by the whole region for cutting a service to one station.

As has been mentioned before though it is not just Melksham station that would benefit but those who want another route to Swindon / Chippenham from the south without a cumbersome Bath Spa change. And as of my travelling experiences from Warminster have proven, a lot of people want this.

Swindon. Transwilts service reduced by 60%, remainder uselessly timed
Chippenham. Transwilts service reduced by 60%, remainder uselessly timed
Trowbridge. Transwilts service reduced by 60%, remainder uselessly timed
Westbury. Transwilts service reduced by 60%, remainder uselessly timed
Dilton Marsh. No services remaining at all to Swindon. From Swindon reduced by 50%
Warminster. No services remaining at all to Swindon. From Swindon reduced by 50%
Salisbury. No services remaining at all to Swindon. From Swindon reduced by 50%
Frome. Service to Swindon withdrawn.

Let's try a few more.

Romsey to Chippenham. Wesssex - 4, First - 0
Swindon to Southampton. Wessex - 4, First - 2
Southampton to Chippenham. Wessex - 3, First - 0

Which of these stations was the one you were referring to?  It is all to easy to be taken in by the propaganda that says only one station/town is effected!

I was referring to Melksham, as all of the other stations you mention still have plenty of services to the main commuter towns of Bristol and Bath, yes it is wrong that the transwilts service is dire but there are hundreds of other stations and lines in the FGW area.

grahame and Graz have more than adequately addressed the "one station" misconception.

I wasnt judging FGW in the way you suggest. I welcome improvements elsewhere on the network and wish to encourage them to go further.

My point was more that what FGW did regarding the TransWilts was indicative of what you class as the "old" FGW attitude, and providing an appropriate TransWilts service would stand as an excellent example of what you class as the "new" FGW attitude.

Vacman - I've mentioned 10 stations out of about 210, and you've added another; I could find you three more at least which FGW operate and have cut services to within 50 or 60 miles of where I live, but I know you would cry "exception" or "special case" to each of them.  I have, by the way, strongly studied the traffic flows of Bath / Bristol v Swindon.  And it's not the 15:1 which you would think from the relative level of services provided from Westbury / Trowbridge; something between 3:1 and 6:1 would be more like it - look at the DfT road congestion diagrams from West Wilts!

There IS a strong case for reviewing the level of service and the timings on lines and I am not a Luddite looking for a return to things as they were - indeed I feel that the timetable here (http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/tp.html) is better than the one offered by Wessex trains. The evening trains are lost, the peak hour provision is stronger and the extra middle of the day service welcome.  Please visit here (http://www.savethetrain.org.uk/pledge.html) if you agree with me. And, yes, FGW will get plaudits for operating it to franchise punctuality and cancellation level criteria or better

The view from Ivybridge Rail Users Group (link below.)
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367106678.ikml

Bristol and Bath might be the main commuter towns for other stations on that line but there are a fair number of us from Frome trying to get to Chippenham and Swindon as well.
Since FGW took over the transwilts route, I know several people who have given up trying to catch the train from here, Warminster and Dilton Marsh, who now drive by car either all the way, or to Westbury and Trowbridge where you have more options.
The rest of us in Frome are frustrated by early starts 6.43 a.m. connecting at Westbury, when in the days of Wessex we used to have a straight through train leaving at 7.20 a.m. In addition connecting at Bath in the evening is stressful to say the least with either a connecting time of 7 minutes, which if you miss means you have an hour wait for the next Weymouth train, or you can get a much earlier train from Swindon and hang around at Bath for 40 minutes, unfortunately this in not much of an option when you're trying to work your contracted 7 or 8 hours a day.  :(