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Title: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Witham Bobby on February 05, 2020, 15:24:17 The Great British Transport Competition has come up with this ...
https://d3n8a8pro7vhmx.cloudfront.net/taxpayersalliance/pages/16562/attachments/original/1558213640/GBTC_REPORT_FINAL_REVIEWED_18MAY2019.pdf Much of which will be of interest, I hope. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Red Squirrel on February 05, 2020, 16:55:20 To make sense of this, we have to ignore the fundamental error at the heart of the premise. There IS no HS2 money; HS2 will be an investment funded by borrowing.
That said, I think we've seen this before. Interesting to see a road scheme comes out at number one: Quote The environmental impact is likely to be minimal and air quality may actually improve, as vehicles will be able to travel at more optimal speeds, resulting in shorter journey times and engines being used more efficiently. You couldn't make it up. Further down the list is High Speed UK North. This looks broadly similar to Northern Powerhouse Rail; somehow it manages to weigh in at £18.1 billion even though it uses the Woodhead route. Perhaps that's because it wouldn't be able to use the stations that HS2 is going to pay for? Four tracking from Rugby to Birmingham looks interesting, too... particularly through Coventry... Quote ...the land remains in the ownership of Network Rail, making it a uniquely well integrated and easily initiated project ... Part of this would involve upgrading the 8 suburban stations along the line. A quick look on Google Maps suggests that NR does own some land alongside part of the route, but certainly not all of it. And for 'upgrading... stations' read 'rebuilding'... All this, for £1.5 billion? I think that must be an accounting error; surely the decimal point is in the wrong place? I note that Tony Berkeley is one of the authors. Nuff said. Some of it's good though - MML electrification, for example. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: IndustryInsider on February 05, 2020, 16:59:42 To make sense of this, we have to ignore the fundamental error at the heart of the premise. There IS no HS2 money; HS2 will be an investment funded by borrowing. A point completely lost on most people it seems. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Richard Fairhurst on February 05, 2020, 17:33:42 Quote This proposal seeks to build cycle paths alongside the 2,300 miles of motorway network and 5,300 miles of Highways England managed A-roads in Great Britain. COST: £1.82 billion I despair. That is probably the most fruitless way of spending £1.82bn on cycling I can imagine. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: ellendune on February 05, 2020, 17:47:02 It comes from the so called Taxpayers Alliance so zero credibility.
I notice that none of the projects have any costed benefits. Their proposal for 4 track from Rugby to Birmingham has been discounted several times because of the disruption it would cause to services during construction and I am sure it was said there would need to be some demolition of property. Who wants to cycle along side a motorway? Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: TaplowGreen on February 05, 2020, 17:52:15 It comes from the so called Taxpayers Alliance so zero credibility. Out of interest, why is that the case? Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Reading General on February 05, 2020, 18:06:39 All interurban based road and national rail projects, except for the Leeds S-Bahn idea, is nobody interested in how we move around our towns and cities? It's still the one area that is ignored but the area which would benefit the most people. I can get to many places by rail, but how I get anywhere in these places is of no interest it seems.
What about giving this money that doesn't exist to regions and letting them spend it on what they think is right? Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: ellendune on February 05, 2020, 18:10:09 It comes from the so called Taxpayers Alliance so zero credibility. Out of interest, why is that the case? They are a one of a number of neocon groups at that address whose funding is less than transparent. The group includes: Brexit Central Business for Britain (until 7 October 2015) Civitas European Foundation Global Vision Global Warming Policy Foundation Leave Means Leave Migration Watch UK New Culture Forum Taxpayer's Alliance Source https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufton_Street (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tufton_Street) They are climate change deniers and were promotors of Brexit. However, the main reason is that they have always been very anti-rail. Edited to add list and link Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: DidcotPunter on February 05, 2020, 18:18:07 It comes from the so called Taxpayers Alliance so zero credibility. Out of interest, why is that the case? They are a one of a number of neocon groups at that address whose funding is less than transparent. They are climate change deniers and were promotors of Brexit. However, the main reason is that they have always been very anti-rail. Agreed, absolutely zero credibility for me too. Their anti-rail stance is part of their general anti-public spending agenda. I believe that some investigative journalism has shown links to (if not funding from) right-wing organisations in the US funded by the likes of the Koch brothers (just google them if you want to understand their agenda). Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: eightonedee on February 05, 2020, 18:42:54 .. ..and in the light of recent experience in costing major infrastructure projects I guess we should take their figures with more than a pinch of salt!
Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: CyclingSid on February 06, 2020, 07:03:37 Quote Quote This proposal seeks to build cycle paths alongside the 2,300 miles of motorway network and 5,300 miles of Highways England managed A-roads in Great Britain. COST: £1.82 billion I despair. That is probably the most fruitless way of spending £1.82bn on cycling I can imagine. Not saying anything about the credibility, or not. But the fact that a government is saying £1.82 billion in relation to cycling certainly makes a change. But talk is cheap. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Marlburian on February 06, 2020, 07:59:20 Quote Quote This proposal seeks to build cycle paths alongside the 2,300 miles of motorway network and 5,300 miles of Highways England managed A-roads in Great Britain. COST: £1.82 billion I despair. That is probably the most fruitless way of spending £1.82bn on cycling I can imagine. Not saying anything about the credibility, or not. But the fact that a government is saying £1.82 billion in relation to cycling certainly makes a change. But talk is cheap. Speaking as a former keen cyclist, I would not enjoy riding alongside such busy roads. Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: TaplowGreen on February 06, 2020, 08:26:32 .. ..and in the light of recent experience in costing major infrastructure projects I guess we should take their figures with more than a pinch of salt! ………...there is one in particular that springs to mind! :D Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Red Squirrel on February 06, 2020, 08:42:47 Not saying anything about the credibility, or not. But the fact that a government is saying £1.82 billion in relation to cycling certainly makes a change. But talk is cheap. These suggestions were made by the Taxpayers Alliance, not the government. Another one that made me chortle was: Quote REBUILD CULLOMPTON STATION [...] This is a very simple but effective project that integrates almost seamlessly with the existing rail network. For anyone who doesn't know why the words 'simple' and 'seamlessly' tickled my funny bone, see here: http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5272.0 Full disclosure: I am very much in favour of opening more stations closer to where people live, but recognise that it is hardly ever simple. Portway Parkway (https://fosbr.org.uk/timelines/portway-parkway/) is about as simple as it gets, but has taken the best part of 20 years to get to a planning application... Title: Re: Better ways of spending the HS2 money? Post by: Red Squirrel on February 06, 2020, 08:47:12 .. ..and in the light of recent experience in costing major infrastructure projects I guess we should take their figures with more than a pinch of salt! ………...there is one in particular that springs to mind! :D I think I can guess which one you mean: The Lower Thames Crossing? This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |