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Title: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: stuving on August 30, 2019, 16:38:49 I saw an article on this in today's Times, and found this from LNER (https://www.lner.co.uk/news/lner-to-trial-simpler-fares/):
Quote LNER TO TRIAL SIMPLER FARES 29/08/19 (https://d13w9pwhlf25to.cloudfront.net/cdn-72d43e7b/contentassets/1181dc18281d4500962b6372491c282d/image1ly6q.png/?v=461) We will begin a trial to offer simpler ticketing options for customers booking travel on some LNER routes. The trial for journeys from 2 January 2020, with tickets on sale from 29 November 2019, has been designed to address issues whereby people are purchasing single tickets for long distance journeys, sometimes at nearly the cost of the return fare. The trial will replace return fares with single tickets around half the price of a return ticket. This will allow customers to select the best ticket options for their journeys more easily; giving passengers the opportunity to ‘mix and match’ the best ticket for each leg of their journey. The Department for Transport is supporting the plans, to learn lessons for further possible reforms of rail fares. The trial will remove the following ticket types from sale on some LNER city to city journeys: Anytime Return Super Off-Peak Return Off-Peak Return Customers will instead have the option to purchase the following single ticket types: Anytime Single Super Off-Peak Single Advance Single For example, passengers currently travelling between London and Edinburgh buying a ticket at the station pay £146.40 for a Super Off-Peak Single ticket or £147.40 for a Super Off-Peak Return ticket. Under this trial, the cost of a Super Off-Peak Single would be £73.70. LNER Commercial Director, Suzanne Donnelly, said: “At LNER we are always looking at ways to make travel simpler and smoother for our customers. This trial will be the first step towards giving customers more confidence they are buying the correct ticket for their needs and ultimately making fares simpler.” Secretary of State for Transport, Grant Shapps, said: “This important LNER trial will simplify fares, benefitting passengers up and down the country. It will give customers confidence that they are buying the right ticket for their journey and help to provide the modern transport service passengers expect.” The trial will be for journeys between London King’s Cross and the following stations Leeds, Newcastle and Edinburgh, with only single ticket options on these journeys available to customers. The trial will not apply to journeys to or from other destinations on the route between these locations. The trial will take place for specific journeys between: London King’s Cross – Leeds London King’s Cross – Newcastle London King’s Cross – Edinburgh In First Class the three ticket types available will be slightly different, Anytime Single, Off Peak Single and Advance Single. Earlier this year, the Rail Delivery Group, on behalf of train operators, published proposals for once-in-a-generation reform of the fares system. The proposals followed the biggest ever rail fares consultation last summer, run in partnership with independent passenger watchdog Transport Focus, in which 20,000 people took part and eight in 10 people want the current system changed. The example fare provided in this release is based on current prices but may be subject to change with the January fares round. There may also be cheaper advance fares available i.e. this is not the cheapest fare available but is a saving against the current on the day price of a Super Off-Peak single ticket. It does say in the text that this trial is being done on behalf of DfT and RDG. Some of the comments about simplification are a bit over the top - I'm sure a lot of people would call buying one return ticket simpler than having to buy two for the same journey. The real anomalies lie elsewhere. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Timmer on August 30, 2019, 17:16:51 Isn’t anything new though as we’ve had near half price off/super off peak fares for years on GW services.
Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 30, 2019, 17:35:37 On some GW services. On some others there's only 10p difference between return and single.
I'm all for simplification but this doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me. The simplification that is needed IMO is more to do with time, particularly time of purchase, than return v single. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: ellendune on August 30, 2019, 18:00:34 On some GW services. On some others there's only 10p difference between return and single. I'm all for simplification but this doesn't seem like much of an improvement to me. The simplification that is needed IMO is more to do with time, particularly time of purchase, than return v single. On longer distances it makes a huge difference when I need to go in the peak but I can return off peak. When I go to London (from Swindon) I can buy an anytime single out and an off-peak or super offpeak single back. When I go to Bristol the return is on 10 p more than the single. Anoying as I often go on a train and get a lift back! Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Richard Fairhurst on August 30, 2019, 18:41:09 On longer distances it makes a huge difference when I need to go in the peak but I can return off peak. Especially when returning off-peak is facilitated by an alternative service that doesn't have evening peak restrictions *cough* Chiltern *cough* Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Bmblbzzz on August 30, 2019, 20:11:01 The availability of returns doesn't prohibit getting two singles though.
Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: grahame on August 30, 2019, 20:55:50 The availability of returns doesn't prohibit getting two singles though. Indeed ... for GWR / Melksham to Paddington with two fare periods inbound and three outbound, we've come up with a table telling you whether to buy a return or two singles - http://www.mrug.org.uk/londonfares.html Noting from the original post: Quote The trial will remove the following ticket types from sale on some LNER city to city journeys: Anytime Return Super Off-Peak Return Off-Peak Return Customers will instead have the option to purchase the following single ticket types: Anytime Single Super Off-Peak Single Advance Single No Off Peak singles (just Super ones) then?? Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: CMRail on September 01, 2019, 11:29:31 As much as I think that this is a good start to improving ticketing, there is clearly a lot more to do. As someone who travels regularly, I can just about get my head around the ticketing system. For somebody travelling to Cornwall in the holidays for the first time, how do they know they are getting value for money?
Most travellers I speak to book via the trainline. The misleading advertising saying that they have “cheaper fares” is simply not true, it often just shows you slower trains or different times in a more obvious way. They also charge a booking fee (unless booking on the day) which is a rip off. Paper tickets are becoming ever more confusing. Soon I will be using the train to travel to Birmingham International airport with another person - and the whole booking system wasn’t exactly ‘simple’. The paper tickets don’t provide the best information and I really think that QR code style barcodes should be used to check the validity of a ticket and at the exit gate-line/on the train be logged as used.GWR don’t use the paper style long tickets on HSS services because of LU. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: eightonedee on September 01, 2019, 20:31:15 Am I missing something here?
I would have thought that most, if not the vast majority of passengers buy return tickets, so from a passenger's point of view what is the point of removing return tickets from the range of tickets? If you want to simplify for the passenger, reduce the number of "time zones". Having (for example) just singles and returns, with a different fare if your journey/outward journey starts in a peak period of (say) 6-30 to 9-00 or 9-30 whenever you buy it would be a much more passenger-focused simplification. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: ellendune on September 01, 2019, 20:58:09 Am I missing something here? I would have thought that most, if not the vast majority of passengers buy return tickets, so from a passenger's point of view what is the point of removing return tickets from the range of tickets? If you want to simplify for the passenger, reduce the number of "time zones". Having (for example) just singles and returns, with a different fare if your journey/outward journey starts in a peak period of (say) 6-30 to 9-00 or 9-30 whenever you buy it would be a much more passenger-focused simplification. Yes but the myriad of time restrictions mean you then have to pay the higher rate both ways when you do not need it. It is just a way to extort m,ore money from passengers. Single fares mean that you only buy the rate you need on each leg. Air fares have been single leg priced for many years now. Its time rail caught up. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 02, 2019, 10:18:06 OTOH single fares without restructuring the current time system will usually tie people down to a specific train in each direction. Often you don't know exactly when you'll be coming back, so you either take a chance or buy on the day, paying the extra for unplanned travel.
Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: ellendune on September 02, 2019, 21:53:27 OTOH single fares without restructuring the current time system will usually tie people down to a specific train in each direction. Often you don't know exactly when you'll be coming back, so you either take a chance or buy on the day, paying the extra for unplanned travel. I seldom exactly know when I am coming back, but I can usually work out if it will be before 3:30 or before 4:30 and this is fine for Swindon to Paddington and Back there are plenty of trains to choose from. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 03, 2019, 10:20:06 Others may not be in a position to be so precise.
Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Celestial on September 03, 2019, 11:42:11 I'm not sure what the problem is. If I don't know what time I am coming back then I only buy a single up, and then buy the appropriate ticket at Paddington on arrival. At worst I end up paying a full fare, which is no greater than if I had bought a return at outset (and less if I went up off peak). And more likely I will be able to travel off peak, so will still have saved the eye-watering anytime fare.
Hopefully the LNER experiment is deemed a success and rolled out nationally. With the effect that GWR drops the small loading it has on single off fares over half the return. And also benefits local fares too. Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: Bmblbzzz on September 03, 2019, 13:36:44 I think what you miss out on is advance fares (which IMO arguably would be a good thing to get rid of, but they're not doing that). Or the cases where return is only a little more than a single.
Title: Re: LNER To trial simpler fares Post by: stuving on September 03, 2019, 19:55:32 SNCF don't do off-peak tickets as such. But if you are over 60 or under 27 you can get a découvertes ticket at 25% off, valid for any TER journey beginning in a période bleue. You may need a show a pièce d'identité, though what works (other than a passport) I've never found out. And they don't price returns at all, you pay for two singles. TGVs are different, of course, all reserved seats and dynamically priced.
On one occasion I was buying a return ticket from Saint-Gilles-Croix-de-Vie to Nantes, and the ticket machine wasn't working so I had go to the guichet. The machine leads you through all the choices one by one, but asking for a ticket calls for more preparation. Having asked for my aller-retour à Nantes découvertes senior he asked me when I was coming back. I said 18:00 or 19:00, as I intended to get the first train in period bleue - which starts (generally) at 18:30. I'd not checked the train times, but they were in fact at 18:10 and 19:10, and he inferred I meant between the two so sold me an undiscounted ticket for the return journey. Of course, if I wasn't sure, I should have got just a single - though that means relying on finding a machine free at Nantes (or worth queueing for), which can be hard. Incidentally, last September that machine had stopped selling découvertes tickets - that step just left out of the process. The same week the validity of TER tickets was reduced from a week to a day (to reduce fraud), which removed one option for using a full-price ticket later. The validity had only been a week since 2014 - before that it was 61 days. I looked at a machine in Rennes (Brétagne region), and that still offered découvertes tickets. So you don't need private TOCs to get such differences in the system - devolution will do it at least as well (or badly). This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |