Great Western Coffee Shop

I have the (dis)pleasure of travelling on several of these recently.  Routes on which I have travelled are:

Ludlow -> Machester
Ludlow -> Crewe
Shrewsbury -> Birmingham

I know these arent FGW routes but bear with me......

Now, whilst I can just about see the use on Shrewsbury -> Birmingham, if you get a stopper (of which some are) its a 90 minute journey and they are cramped and uncomfortable and there is NO space to *DO* anything during that 90 minutes.

Then, look at Ludlow -> Manchester which is actually Camarthen/Milford Haven/Haverfordwest -> Machester .....  a four hour journey end to end

Same issue - they arent any good

What are they good for?

When they are proclaimed great trains and just work - are they journeys of 30-45 minutes or less (which is about all I could tolerate one for)

P.S. I do like 175/158 and 350 trains so I'm not just a HST/Pendolino FC snob......but I cant for the life of me see anything good on a 150.  Last time I went to Manchester I spent two hours with my feet on a suitcase using my lap as a table just to be able to work through some papers

Oh and slightly OT - I saw a 142 at liverpool lime street today - I came in on pendolino from crewe into ime street and saw over on platform 10 what looked like the fabled 142s - I went over and saw it was one.  As it was unguarded and not due to leave for 15 mins I got on and sat on it.  OH MY GOD - give me a cushion to prevent rhinosorearse any day!

I know- in my recent poll they scored the highest in the "local" section.

Vile clapped out thing- can't see why.

I agree- no more than 45 mins (which is, by the way, the length of a typical commute from Kidderminster to Birmingham with LM).

Since I refuse point blank to use London Midland I always choose the ATW service.  Which tends to be the stopper.

Why do I not like London Midland.....

WOS -> Moor Street

Almost 90 minutes on a train with nothing but worn out seats and no tables and no loos and no service

Quite surprised that a Ludlow-Manchester or Ludlow to Crewe service was run by a 150. The West Wales - Manchester service is mainly 175's with some 158's.  ATW tend to use the 150's on the Cardiff valley lines (including the new Ebbw Vale service) and the Swansea-Cardiff Swanline service.  Occasionally Maesteg to Cheltenham gets one but usually they are 158's.

Slightly off topic but with these ATW 150s now gone to FGW I wonder how ATW are coping without them? I saw a 142 on a service that would normally be a 150 today.

As for 150's well I do not mind them for short journey's but do prefer 175's or 158's.

Worcs to Moor Street is about an hour.

I think that LM plan to refurb the 150s between now and the arrival of the 172s.

To be fair its not often ad usually due to a train failure .... but when it does happen, two hours on one are not fun

I don't like 150's eeither and today and yesterday I can give good reasons why.
Yesterday the 06:52 BTM-PNZ was a single ex-Wessex 150 vice 158 and it was chaos, it was boiling hot and cramped. Two vestibules were unusable as they were filled with large cases. Rediculous.
Today the 14:41 PLY-PNZ was a single ex-Wessex 150 vice 158. I got there very late and managed to get inside one of the vestibules. I was overcrowded due to the amount of luggage around me aswell as people. We were rammed full as we left Plymouth despite an Arriva 150 sitting behind us having been uncoupled which in fairness should have only been a 153 which could have benn coupled to our service not the later one.
They are not fit for purpose as feeders to HST's.

Really?

Kidderminster (which is where I normally get on) is about 50 minutes....... and it seems a lot longer than 10 minutes to get to WOS fro Kiddie.

Also - why cant they run any semi fast services.....

All trains seem to go Kiddie -> Blakedown -> Hagley -> Sturport ->  miscellanous stations (including rowley regis, lye, cradley heath etc etc etc ) -> Moor Street

If there was a service that went:

WOS -> Kidderminster -> Stourport -> Smethick -> Moor Street

Even only a few times a day, I may consider using it!

Quote from the Network Rail Strategic Business Plan :

And in English that means?

Sorry - I'm probably more fluent in rail speak than the average c'muter but I cant work out why they cant run some semi fast on that route (note - no kiddie services are ever that busy even at peak!)

It means there is too little capacity for an additional train.

The 150 is a solid old workhorse  and quite dependable more than can be said for a Pacer, they are better than a turbo but not as good as a Turbostar.

Which are all shadowed by a 158.

Not asking for an additional train

There are two an hour - and not THAT busy

Make one a stopper and one a semi fast

I'd rather a turbo - at lest they have first one them!

Its not just the frequency, but also the pattern that is restricted by the ancient infrastructure. Really it needs modernising and upgrading before any major changes can occur.

Centro may also oppose a change to the service pattern suggested (link below.)
http://www.networkwestmidlands.com/train/Network%20Map.asp

From your centro map as a c'muter I still cant se why my stopping pattern would not be possibl!)

Have one stoppng everywhere and the other stopping at big stations/interchanges

But if the block sections are impractical, your suggestion may mean that due to capacity the 'fast' service will have to run directly behind the stopper and that doesn't really make sense, does it? :)

Put it this way, a service cannot run frequently from Castle Cary to Taunton. The headway is approx. 8.5 minutes for a train doing linespeed. Now, if a class 7 freight (45mph) is doing that journey, let's just increase the headway to about 20 minutes for that train, so a train cannot run for another 20 minutes behind it. Now, that's taking up 2.5 paths - which isn't a very good use of space. I picked a class 7 freight as that's the closest freight to a stopping pattern train... those 1.5 paths that are wasted could be reserved for other trains that may not run, for instance the New Measurement Train.

What is required for these feeders are 3 car 158s minimum but thats not going to happen for the reasons we all know.Unfortunately FGWs longer distance passengers to Cornwall and indeed Plymouth are a low priorities these days which is why internal air travel to places like Newquay is on the up and indeed is becoming a musthave in these parts as the railway struggles to stand still while the popularity of air travel continues to grow.
  Inadequate rolling stock is simply going to excellerate that growth where there is an air alternative which I suspect is the Dfts hidden agenda in the far South West.
 

Kidderminster to Birmingham is 40-45 mins max. Worcester to Kidderminster is 20-22 mins. That adds up to about an hour.

There are 4 trains per hour from Kidderminster (from Stourbridge it is 6 trains per hour) to Birmingham- only 2 continue to Worcester.

At peak times they are cram packed- try getting on a Southbound services at Smethick Golten Bridge at 4-5PM!

Because of this high frequency- no more semi-fasts can be fitted in.

BUT:

There used to be fast trains to New Street from Kidderminster (and Worcester). They called at Blakedown, Hagley Stourbridge and New Street only. They took about half an hour. They were axed to relive pressure on new street!

Network Rail are re-signalling the route soon- this might allow some faster services- but no more can be fitted in as the Snow Hill Tunnel is full to capacity at the moment! I hope that Chiltern's services will become faster!

150's are about the best short/medium distance unit's around, the ones Wessex refurbished are the most comfortable as they have 2+2 seating with tables etc, although, I would not like to sit on one from Swansea to Manchester! 1441 of Ply is booked a 150.

But it is the the 158 diagram from Bristol earlier isn't it?

158s are simply not needed from Penzance - Plymouth and are very impractical!

But 150's are very unsuitable, if you don't beleive me just travel on one. The best option would be 3x153 as they have much more luggage space.

Done both a 150 and 158 and can safely say the 150 was much more pleasent and more designed for 75mph running and stop start. Whereas the 158 has no aircon and was VERY stuffy.

How busy was the 150?
And how many long distance customers where on it?
And how many carriages where they both?

Both were on a Bristol - Penzance, both busy and the 150 was much nicer!!

The Bristol-Penzance ones never have many long distance customers. Try the 14:41 Plymouth-Penzance on a Summer Saturday and then tell me a 150 is suitable, I was crammed in a vestibule with abut ten huge cases and that was stuffy especially as the Diesal fumes were entering throught the windows.

It may have been crammed but would have been if a 158, and if it were a 158 it would have lost time due to slower accellaration (yes, 150's are quicker off the mark!!!) and the fact that the doors are in the wrong place for busy stop/start work, I believe all but 1 Cornish diagrams are non 158's, they may be keeping 1 diagram this summer due to Penzance/Par train crew needing to keep traction knowledge. 150's are far better for Cornwall in terms of timekeeping and loading/unloading, there is a little less luggage space, but more wheelchair/bike space and (wait for the insults!!) more standing room! 153's are totally useless for anything other than strengthening or light used branches, they are rediculously underpowered and the doors are in the wrong place!

158's are much more comfortable to stand in though as long as the air con works. I agree 15o's are much quicker to accelarate. I think that the problem would be solved by adding a big luggage rack making 150+153 perfect capacity wise. 153's are more comfortable than 150's, refurb only though.

Standing in a 158 vestibule is worse than standing in a 150, the vestibule in a 158 has no air flowing into it, especially when the automatic vestibule door works and there is no air con in the vestibule.

The 14:41 Plymouth to Penzance is booked the 158 on a Saturday only, yes....

Weekday diagram is:
0604 PNZ to NTA
0902 NTA to PLY
1130 PLY to GSL
1219 GSL to PLY
1441 PLY to PNZ
1644 PNZ to EXD

Easter Monday has 153382 on this diagram which could be fun, is this the last black one??
Mondays St.Ives and Falmouth branch are both 150/s..... Looe is 153329.

I think there's 2 black 153's left, 380 and 382, 377 has just been refurbished.

But standing in the seating area is nice.I will add that to my list, is there any more refurb units.
And the 158 diagram yesterday was 150.

Bugger. I thought 370 was black - guess it's red then?

Here is 153370 in March 2005 (link below.)
http://modernimagebranchlines.fotopic.net/p12822626.html

I'm going to try and track down these Black ones soon then - for a stark reminder of what a brick is really like.

So the 150:
a) goes
b) is less suffocating than a 158 if overcrowded

What tragic comments on the attractiveness of the passenger experience :'(.

To think there was a time xx years ago when I actually enjoyed travelling by train.