Great Western Coffee Shop

 The South West would "very definitely" be a better place if First Great Western was kicked off the railways, the head of the region's transport board said last night.

In the latest high-profile attack on the beleaguered firm, Julian Johnson told MPs he was "very concerned" about FGW's performance and he would be "happier" if a different company was in charge of train services in the region.
 http://www.thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=181429&command=displayContent&sourceNode=229968&home=yes&more_nodeId1=133174&contentPK=20195511
 What do you think?

I don't think kicking them off entirely is the right idea, perhaps the line's they truely *are* screwing up instead or giving them one last chance to improve before kicking them swiftly off the network and finding someone who *can* run a service. But again, with change comes problems, I await the "X Company is rubbish, bring up FGW" within the first months of a new company running.

Julian Johnson is the chairman of the South West Regional Assembly's Regional Transport Board and was appearing in front of the Transport Select Committee on the same day as Tom Harris (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2132.msg16047#msg16047

Under FGW:
HSTs have more seats
fares are lower
trains are being refurbished to much higher standard than Distressex!
there are improved HSS across the region

I honestly think that things are looking much, much better and its a pretty decent service nowadays.

cannot comment on the fare issue.

but i agree sets are refurbished to a decent standard shame the 150's are not as good as 158 and 153 but that is probably because it is pullman and not wabtec doing them.
although i would say it is about time dmu services were taken more seriously instead of hss always being the main concern.

The 150's were very extensively refurbished by Wessex and they needed very little work done on them hence the samll scale refurb and if you want cheap fares just come to Cornwall and get a CDR.

This was the main problem when First took the franchise.....they weren't interested in the 'local' services whatsoever. But thanks to a lot of bad press, forums and blogs like this, and MP's chunterings, things are changing. I think credit should be given to Mr Haines and his new(ish) team, they certainly do seem to be trying to address the main problems.

As I've posted elsewhere, I am a passenger, I don't work for First Great Western, and I don't think FGW losing the franchise is a realistic option. I'm becoming a bit of a fan of Andrew Haines and the team he's brought in: I think he's the right man for the job of turning FGW around, and I'd like to see him being given a chance to produce even better results!


I agree, d_m: I'm not half as grumpy on the platforms at Nailsea or BTM as I used to be!  ;)

So Julian reckons the South West is gonna be a better place if FGW got booted out...never heard of the bloke.
What i want to know is who is going to run it and make the massive improvements Julian wants??

Local fares in Devon and Cornwall are FAR cheaper than Wessex days, and bear in mind that more people travel off peak in Devon and Cornwall so the cheap CDR's are a real benefit!

Are you referring to a clause in the franchise agreement itself, or one of the other related documents, devon_metro?


If FGW were to be stripped of the franchise, then it would initially be run by the DfT's "Operator Of Last Resort", First Class Partnerships, who previously fulfilled the same role with South Eastern after Connex were stripped of the franchise (link below.)
http://www.firstclasspartnerships.com/operator-of-last-resort.php

First Class Partnerships would also give advice on the issues surrounding any potential removal of the franchise in the first place.

As for potential "massive improvements", I make no judgement as to whether any would be forthcoming or not......

It depends on where you look at if from.  Here's my local picture

Under FGW:
60% of trains have been withdrawn
Buy-on-the-day cheapest weekday London fare up from 38 pounds to 115 pounds
Cancellation rate up from 2.7% of trains to 7% of trains
Longest daytime service gap up from 4 hours 23 minutes to 11 hours 54 minutes

When the passenger - the customer - is looking for a reliable service, running at appropriate times, and a price that's reasonable, I think that in our neck of the woods that at present First Great Western appear to have failed on all counts.

P.S.  Gaf71 wrote:
I think credit should be given to Mr Haines and his new(ish) team, they certainly do seem to be trying to address the main problems.

Yes, and Mr Haines specifically mentioned Salisbury to Swindon - the line I refer to - in a speech I heard him mae to representatives from all across the South West at the beginning of this month.  The problem is that we were asked for inputs for the December 2006 timetable, and changes directly opposed to those we asked for were made betwene draft and final. We were lead to believe that a major improvement - back to something closer to an appropriate service - was planned for December 2007, but that melted away. And here we are in 2008 with more promises along the same lines.

I wouldn't want Mr Haines' job - and it's really hard to know just what he can say / do at this point after two previous letdowns from the same company. The words are right, and the ifs and buts Mr Haines and others mention seem honest.  The track record is abysmal, though.  First would do well for the people of Wiltshire who are currently disenfranchised from the train by announcing that they WILL run the service that they currently have in draft from next December, even is it means that they have to spend 1/60000 th (one sixty thousandth) of the money they're paying for the franchise on it.

I appreciate your comments on Melksham and you are right in that instance, but improvements elsware are coming thick and fast, for example, Hayle on the Cornish main line gets a far better service from May, bear in mind that the origional franchise spec was for something like 6 trains per day with a 7 hour gap westbound! from May it has an almost hourly service all day in both directions, it was only two hourly under Wesssex, not to mention that it will have 6 direct services to London per day, about time really as there are two major holiday parks within a mile of the town! Saltash and St Germans are also faring well from may with the same amount of trains as they previously had even though the franchise spec was pathetic, also, both have direct services to London now, and you do see one or two people with through tickets from St Germans/Saltash to London, people who may previously have driven to Plymouth or Liskeard. Personally speaking I don't like HST's stopping at these small stations as it slows journey times down, but it's great for the people in those villiages.

I do wonder whether the improved services to Saltash are more down to the intense lobbying from Saltash Rail Users Group, rather than simply being an example of FGW benevolence.

I agree that FGW listened to the area's passengers in that instance, though. Time for a bit more listening to Melksham/TransWilts customers as well, methinks.

More on the SWRA/SWRDA submissions to the Transport Select Committee (link below.)
http://www.thisisgloucestershire.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=231771&command=displayContent&sourceNode=231774&contentPK=20203846&folderPk=108867&pNodeId=231888

Lee

Yes we have lobbyed hard, and will continue to do so to maintain a good service. Saltash is not a village, it is the 6th largest town in Cornwall, with almost twice the population of Liskeard. For a number of years the service has been quiite poor with no HST services for a long time, and just local stopping services. It will take a bit of time, but the HST services are prooving more and more popular, as people reaslise that you can get to London from Saltash, without changing trains. These are not just people who may have travelled from other stations, most are new travellers who may have previously jumped in their cars.

Come May we will have a pretty much the same number of trains as pre December 2006. Some of these services are HST's to/from London, and the stock is neasrly all refurbished. Unfortunately it is not as simple as that, as we have had to fight hard to regain 6 services since Dec 2006, in that time, people have drifted away, and will take time to get them back. We still don't have the early 'Dockyard' train, so a whole trainload from Cornwall still cannot commute to the Plymouth suburban stops early enough for them to use the train.

All in all, we will finally have a decent service, with decent trains, and certainloy as far as we (Cornwall) are concerned, puntuallity over the past 4 to 6 weeks has imrprooved greatly. I say give FGW a chance, and not forget that the DfT have a serious part to play i many of FGW's prblems.

When I think back to our protest when the franchaise train ran through Saltash staion in April 2006, with people shouting and shaking their fists at FGW's directors, we have achieved an awful lot.

Happy Easter..

Happy Easter to you Richard, and well done on all your success so far  :)

CANBER will continue to strongly support your efforts, as we have done since your group was formed in response to the original Draft December 2006 Timetable.

I just wish that we could make as much progress on the Melksham/TransWilts issue, and I hope that people read and understand the reasons why FGW isnt viewed quite so highly in that part of the world.

By the way, I never said that Saltash was a village....... ;D

Lee, I know, I am not having a go at anyone, just pointing out the facts. Saltash was once in fact the bussiest station in Cornwall!

Good luck with your campaign also, have you managed any improvements for May?

Not suggesting you were, Richard  ;D

I agree that it is annoying when Saltash is referred to in those terms.

I know that Cornwall has done a lot better than many expected, and I am genuinely very pleased about that.

I'll let grahame answer on the TransWilts May question.

No - we haven't managed any improvements for May ...  >:(

No great surprise, since there aren't any other regular scheduled trains coming through and alterations would be regarded as a major timetabling issue of the sort that happens in Decembers. 

There's a lot of good talk as you may have seen documented around here.   Problem is that there has been a lot of good talk in the spring of both the last two years, and the cynics are seeing something of a pattern and wondering if the TOC makes a lot of positive noises each spring to keep us in line, and supposedly working with them, in the full knowledge that they're going to say "oops, can't do it this year" yet again.  Difficult one, because having been mislead  twice it's very hard to trust ... and some say foolish to do so.


For the reader who may not know Saltash or Melksham ... the level of train service should be very similar. Saltash has a population or 17000 according to Wikipedia, and Melksham is about 30% larger.   Both are through stations, with Saltash being on the main Cornwall line, and plenty of through traffic, and Melksham sandwiched between Swindon and Chippenham on one side - the 1st and 4th towns in Wiltshire, and Salisbury and Trowbridge (2nd and 4th) on the other.  I would expect traffic from Melksham per head of population to be somewhat below that of Saltash - perhaps balancing the difference in population.   I applaud the improvements at Saltash, even though it means we have even further to go at Melksham to get to anything approaching Par

Sorry, that was me, ::) I referred to Saltash and St Germans as villiages, was really referring to St Germans. As i've said before, Saltash doesn't really effect overall timings for main trains due to the low line speed through the station, I didn't realise Saltash had a population of 17000 though! I learn something new every day.

Thanks, vacman, for that very noble confession!  ;)

Purely by the way (just so I can get in a mention of my local station!), Nailsea itself has a population of some 19,000 - but that's inceased by the populations of Backwell and Wraxall, too.  We are fortunate to be on the main line into BTM, so we're actually very well served for trains.

I'm glad to hear Saltash has a good service now, though - and best wishes for Melksham, likewise (eventually?)!  ::)

Further Bath Chronicle article link.
http://thisisbath.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=180730&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232315&home=yes&more_nodeId1=163047&contentPK=20230029

Interesting quote :

In an apparent U-turn following talks with the firm's bosses yesterday, Julian Johnson has released a statement "clarifying" his remarks and saying he was "heartened" by FGW's plans. He insisted his comments were "coloured more by my own experience as a regular rail user than by Regional Assembly policy" (link below.)
http://www.thisiscornwall.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144125&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232450&contentPK=20249357&folderPk=108202&pNodeId=251466

He said he "meant no general criticism of the company" and was "not advocating the removal of the franchise".

Mr Johnson issued the joint statement with FGW chairman Charles Howeson, who welcomed the clarification and emphasised "the commitment of the company to work with regional stakeholders".

But last night Westcountry MPs expressed dismay at the way Coun Johnson had apparently changed his position after meeting with the company.

Also, Gordon Edwards, company secretary for TravelWatch SouthWest, said his members had been angered at Coun Johnson's "missed opportunity" to raise wider issues about the region's railways with the powerful committee of MPs.

I really don't like U-Turns, it raises questions like

Was he nobbled, Bribed or what??


Not that I'm saying this has happened in this case, but thats what I think could happen in such U-Turns.

One thing that I find rather endearing about Charles Howeson is that he contributes to the comments section of such articles. From todays one :



A couple of other familiar names among the comments contributors as well.

Julian Johnson has insisted that he will not resign over his FGW u-turn (link below.)
http://thisiscornwall.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=144125&command=displayContent&sourceNode=232510&home=yes&more_nodeId1=232470&contentPK=20259170

Speaking to the WMN last night, he admitted he was not well briefed on FGW's plans when he told the Transport Select Committee that the regional assembly "would be happier" without the company.

But after meeting with company bosses this week he has decided "they should be a given a chance".

He said:


Several regional assembly members and transport campaigners in the region were angered by Coun Johnson's decision to go beyond his remit and castigate FGW in public.

FGW chairman Charles Howeson wrote to the assembly demanding to know why this stance had come about. Yesterday, Mr Howeson insisted "no corporate pressure was applied by us - that would have been wholly inappropriate".

Neil Mitchell has commented (see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=2076.msg15541#msg15541 for background) :


Sir Simon Day, deputy chairman of the South West Regional Assembly, insisted that any suggestion that Coun Johnson should resign as chairman of the Regional Transport Board was "preposterous".

Further related article link.
http://thisisplymouth.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=133464&command=displayContent&sourceNode=133158&contentPK=20258769&folderPk=78031&pNodeId=133174

I can't disagree more.

HST carriages may have more seats, but nearly every HST train I catch is missing a carriage.

Fares are not lower, they are expensive and inconsistent. Every year they increase well above inflation, with the standard return fare for Bristol to Reading is almost 3x that of Worcester to Reading. Why?

It is not fare to compare Wessex local trains with FGW HST trains. If you want to see high quality local trains look at Wales or Northern.

HS services are not improving. Many journeys take 20-30% longer than they did a few years ago. My daily journey to Reading now takes 15 minutes more than it did three years ago, and costs 20% more. Is that progress?

Well, if every HST you catch doesn't have enough carriages you are unlucky, or you don't travel by HST very often.

Fares are lower, Advance purchase are much cheaper, and Cheap Day Returns are lots cheaper.

He was actually comparing the West fleet refurbishment with Wessex, which is brilliant.

HSS are improving, they serve many more destinations more reguarly and he Cotswold line has a HST on most journeys now.

And therein lies a problem FGW is trying to be all things to all people and inevitably its traditional longer distance services to my neck of the woods Devon/Cornwall are stagnating here compared to constantly improving road and air links.The Dft really needs to do something drastic about what is now an appallingly slow rail route between Newton Abbot and Penzance if it is serious about rail here in the far South West.
 Talk of high speed lines to the north(186mph) really is premature when there are so called main lines with  55/60 mph line speeds handicapping train operators in what is now a very competitive transport market locally.While commuters/short/medium haul passengers have little alternative to use whats currently on offer FGWs traditional long haul passengers to places like Devon and Cornwall now have good alternatives thanks to the Dfts obsession with road and air link development.

Conner, How often do you travel on the Cotswold line, maybe other regional have decreased but my tickets (not season) have increased by over 5% every year recently. Yes we have a scheduled HST on most services but they are still regularly cancelled, run short with missing carriages/buffet or Adelanted or even Turboed. Every time a 'more important' service fails, our trains get cascaded down and we get the emergency standbys with resultant slower journeys and overcrowding.

As well as above inflation fare increases on a like for like basis we have also had to put up with drastically reduced availability of cheap tickets on services from London which means that we have to buy a more expensive ticket.....some journeys I used to make went up by over 50% in one year!

I do travel by HST often, and whilst not every train I use is short, most are.

Selected off peak and promotional fares are cheaper, but these are paid by peak rail fares and season ticket rail fares which have increased well above inflation over recent years.

Also, CDR tickets are regional only, and may not be bought across region. For example CDR tickets for BPW-DPW - is ^16, and DBP-RDG is ^7. There is no CDR ticket for BPW-RDG, the cheapest being a SR for BPW-RDG is almost ^40.

Finally, the HSS service is not improving. The problems are not solely FGW, but NR as well. Recent articles have highlighted DfT/ORR statements on FGW/NR performance in the West.

I actually think our HST service in Cornwall is brilliant. Good service level and competitive journey times.
And I am saying that fares have decreased, most fares are increasing as they always do but Off-Peak tickets are cheaper.

Whoever thinks Northern are better than FGW needs some form of therapy ;)! Northerns units are a mix match of tatty cast offs from other TOC's (a bit like we HAD), FGW's local services are improving dramaticly lately, I agree it's not before time but they're getting there, the refurbed FGW unit's are far superior to Arriva's answer to a refurb and Northern just seem to put new stickers on the outside to add to the many de-branding attempts that are underneath instead of looking after the inside which is all the customer cares about.
Even the 142's are slowly getting a "tart up" even though we hand 5 of them back to Northern in October, far too many people have the "grass is greener on the other side" attitude but when you make like for like comparisons then you realise that there are a lot worse TOC's out there.
HST's into Devon and Cornwall are far busier than i've ever seen them in the last 10 years with long distance travellers, even though the journey in some cases is a massive 10 mins longer (wow), woody, people don't care that the journey isn't supersonic, if they did then the Cornish trains wouldn't be fully reserved every day, I know, I work the bloomin things! as for short HST's, I've worked one of these in the past month so there can't be to many of them about.

Wow! Thanks, vacman, for that comprehensive endorsement of FGW's service!

And I agree with you, actually: from my personal perspective, as a west Bristol commuter, FGW refurb units and HST services are very much better for me these days.

However, I do accept that there may be less favourable impressions of FGW's service, elsewhere in the region.  ???

Thats very true Chris, but the majority of passengers are now starting to see improvements, and from next year there are some lines that will be getting the best service they've EVER had in terms of frequencys etc, but I really can't elaborate on it at the moment, put it this way, FGW's directors are at last looking at expanding local services with some very interesting times coming up..........

Looking forward to it ...
I take it that will be December TT change.

Summer 2009 onwards.

I would imagine a small fleet of LM 150s will be available by summer 2009 hence this being the first opportunity to really open the taps in terms of bringing improvements to local services. FGW will get a return on their investment if they do improve local services as people will start using them again because one thing is for sure its never going to get any better on the roads.

I agree the refurbished 158 & 150 are much better, brighter & should of been refurbished earlier or same time they were doing 125.

I'm under the impression that Devon local services are to be boosted, and rightly so - i've never known it so busy!

That would be excellent news. It does seem to be getting busier and busier in Devon on the trains - especially off-peak which is often busier than peak! I got on an HST the other day and had to stand for the first time ever (ok - am sure I could have found a seat of I had looked a little harder in all carriages but three were full - and I mean full!).

Perhaps people are wising up to the great prices available in and around Devon. All in all, I think Devon has a great service and I now only really use my car for geting to the station and going to places where trains don't (West Devon). Even with 3 people or so travelling it is still often cheaper by train which is how it should be if the Governtment want to get people off the roads - and we all know Devon's road infrastructure can't cope). It would be interesting to see a breakdown of revenue for FGW to see if cheaper fares in the SW have led to greater use and revenue and profit.

The unit refresh was put back as the origional plan was to only lightly refresh the units with a deep clean and new seat covers but it soon became clear that a full fefurb was needed for the 158's and 153's so it was worth the wait me thinks.

In May, the DfT will be publishing a plan for the next ten years for First Great Western, and I am sure that FGW will want any major local service improvements that they may have planned included as part of that. There will be a consultation as well, which could be interesting.......

Regarding TransWilts, lets hope that this isnt FGW code for "we let you down for December 2007, we are going to let you down for December 2008, but stick with us, because you may get something for 2009........"

FGW are likely to buy new stock if the franchise was extended.

IMHO, Andrew Haines is working wonders with the franchise and I raise my non-alcoholic glass to him and his team of crackpot railwaymen ;)