Great Western Coffee Shop

From The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/apr/02/devices-rail-lines-suspected-pro-brexit-sabotage-plot) but also getting coverage in many other places

Unfortunately it may well be a sign of things to come - if Brexit is cancelled, against the wishes of the people as expressed in the referendum, expect civil disobedience on a scale that this country has never seen before.

Or civil disobedience that is expected as a result of No Deal Chaos? 

The country was split pretty much down the middle so a lot of other people will be fairly aggrieved if it goes the other way. When they marched on London the other day there was no reported violence. A compromise is normally the approach in such cases. But a small minority won't accept that. 

I am sure that if people want to discuss the pros and cons of brexit, and the pros and cons of how the government is handling it, there are plenty of internet forums out there to do it on.

This forum is supposed to be about railways in general and GWR in particular.

Personally I support Home Rule for Chippenham ;)

That and Freedom for Pilning!..

Guys, please, this is serious stuff.... :'(

Yes, it is serious, trespass and a certain amount of knowledge, though perhaps not of politics or common sense.

Ahh. The pro-brexiteers goto "project fear". Let us have our way or we will bring violence and destruction to the country.

It is interesting to note from the recent demonstrations and this news where the peaceful moderate line is.

Assualts at the start of Nigel Farage's march. Arrests at the 'Leave means leave' gatherings in London last Friday. A far right racist extremist and his knuckle dragging followers sharing the platform at that gathering. Said extremist welcomed with open arms by the leader of UKIP. And now, credible threats to infrastructure that could cause loss of life.

Meanwhile, upwards of 1 million people demonstrated in London the week before in favour of remaining in the EU. 5-10 time more than demonstrated in favour of leaving. And from that larger crowd how many were arrested? How many extremist racists were given a platform? How many counter demonstrators were assaulted? Answer to all three... none.

And I expect the retort will be... "17.2 million". Well, yes, but that was 3 years ago and in a referendum based on flawed and poor information on both sides. With one side even breaking the law. Give the people a final say, with the ballot box, not sticks and stones.

The way out of the deadlock is not to suggest, threaten or enact civil disobedience "on a scale this country has never seen before." That is not democracy. That is mob rule.

"attempts to sabotage rail lines" as described in the original article - no matter what your view, or what view is being highlighted by the saboteurs - is unacceptable.

I was fully aware when I posted the original report at the top of this thread that it brought in a difficult base subject where members would have three different views they wanted to see on the Coffee Shop - leave, remain, and don't express either view here.  And I knew that emotions are running so high that it was likely to turn into a thread on which the moderator team might need to comment.

We are indeed primarily a travel forum. And there is good sense in the suggestion that we remember that as we post. We are also very much a friendly forum where our respect for one another remains, even where are views differ, perhaps to the extent of being incomprehensible to one another.  Let's also remember that as we post. And your excellent team of volunteer moderators have, at times, a difficult job and you really shouldn't make it any more difficult for them.  Please remember that as you post.

I voted remain, I was just expressing a concern. I don't think violence is acceptable under any circumstances.

Poorly informed assumptions are one of the main reasons why the whole debate has turned so toxic.

Good rant though!  ;)

"Power to the people". Join the Tooting Popular Front.  Wolfie for leader.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Citizen_Smith

Loved that programme  ;D ;D

Personally I prefer the Reggie Perrin approach...…..and I didn't get where I am today by sabotaging railway lines!!!  :D

Only ? So why has it taken so long to reach no decision. Glad they are not running a railway.

This occurrence just demonstrates the level of intelligence of some individuals. Putting a device to disrupt a circuit on a line with axle counters. Ironically weren’t axle counters an EU thing?

The trouble is they are running the railway in the guise of the DfT. And they're making a pig's ear of that job as well ;)

"The way out of the deadlock is not to suggest, threaten or enact civil disobedience "on a scale this country has never seen before." That is not democracy. That is mob rule."

I agree. I do however fear that a minority might well resort to mob rule, over Brexit, or simply out of a general sense of dissatisfaction.
Look for example at the ongoing protests in France, the protestors don't seem to have any specific grievance, just a feeling of general dissatisfaction.
Railways are very vulnerable to disruption caused by a small number of people. Consider the recent closure of Eurostar, caused AFAIK by just one protester.

Just to clarify that line of debate, and because this IS supposed to be a railway forum. We had a form of axle counter here in the UK in the 1930s.

Well as we all seem intent on discussing Brexit I shall throw in my four pennorth

What is happening was virtually bound to happen. The country was split 52/48 on the issue. Since the referendum, many on the leave side appear to be treating the result a bit like winning a football match, a “winner takes all” scenario. That was never going to happen given the referendum result, because what they actually got was, to take the football analogy a bit further, a rather poor score draw of 3.25 to 3 (lowest common denominators there for illustrative purposes).

Brexiteers attempting to sabotage railway installations is, to me, akin to the winning team’s fans beating up the losing team’s fans on the way home - a totally pointless exercise that will bring on reprisals if it keeps going, and that’s what worries me about the whole “debate” or lack of it.

Someone on the media said last week that the whole issue has taken on all the hallmarks of a 16th century religious war. And the history books tell us how they all ended…

And to anyone who takes the view “this is Britain so nothing will go wrong - we haven’t had a civil war in these islands for almost 400 years” I would suggest they look across the Irish Sea to see what happens when two diametrically opposing views collide.

Thanks for reading. Whether this post survives moderation remains to be seen

Without getting into the for and against debate, I can't help feeling that May brought this all on herself.

She inherited a small but workable majority, and yet chose to gamble it all in the expectation that she would increase it and give herself two extra years.  There was no need to. Unfortunately for her, she ran the most inept election campaign in many a long year, and ended up reliant on the DUP.  I'm not saying it would have been easy to whip the Tory party into line on the issue if she had not called the election, but it would have been an awfully lot easier than it has been.

Her election campaign was "strong and stable".   Hmmm...

Noteworthy that the devices were intended to send signals to red. Clearly whoever did it knew what they were doing and wanted to cause disruption without physical damage.

<political tin foil on>Is it just coincidence it was done in a place called Yaxley?<political tin foil off>

Thank you for throwing us that gauntlet, Robin.  An interesting follow up to this from you ...


May I remind people:


There's something else too ... vandalism and interfering with the railway, or any other probably-criminal actions to forward a cause are a reach for publicity.  Let's not give the oxygen of publicity to the case behind such criminal acts, even though we do and will look at the act itself.  

Thank you Grahame for that last paragraph.  I went through a very similar period at the 'sharp end' in the 1970s and wouldn't wish to see all that surface again.

I think Bmblbzzz just made a Harry Potter reference...

Apparently I did. But unwittingly, even though it might be more appropriate than what I was actually thinking of (2-4-6-8 High Speed Line, anyone?)

......is that the trainspotters version of the Tom Robinson song? 🙂

Oh, I get it. Slow of me... I wonder how that particular working class hero feels about the other half of his double-barrelled surname?

Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do...

Someone tried to imagine there were no axle counters.