Great Western Coffee Shop

This Is Devon article link.
http://thisisdevon.co.uk/displayNode.jsp?nodeId=141507&command=displayContent&sourceNode=257390&home=yes&more_nodeId1=257393&contentPK=20115860

Hmm. "They didn't get any more trains" - what are those 11 new 159s then?  ;)

Do we know what is happening to the Bristol services?

Going to be some serious gaps in the timetable for Ivybridge/Dawlish/Teignmouth/Torquay and Paignton  :-\

In the specification until franchise end (unlike the services west of Exeter.) They were originally a priced option which the DfT took up.

Not sure what status the recent additional services have. Commercial?

Here's an copy of the SWT SLC2 specification for December 2007, as it stood in May 2007 (link below.)
http://www.raildocuments.org.uk/gw/SWTspec.pdf

The highlighting isnt mine, by the way.

As far as I am aware, SWT services to Bristol are retained.

Curious that the arrival in Bristol just before 8am isn't mentioned in the Mon - Fri SLC, although the late evening working back to Salisbury is.

The early morning working is not required in the franchise terms, it runs in service due to ORCATS and the revenue that is made from the service that makes it worthwhile.

So is the additional service recently reduced also an ORCATS raid? 

Can't remember exactly - I'll have to go through the franchise agreement documents but the 0640 SAL - BRI is definately an ORCATS raid. Not sure about the additional midday service.

Would not it be more sensible for SWT/Dft to wait until the London Midland 150s are freed up before swinging the axe on services?

Think about it? Sure, cut SWTs beyond St Davids, but slap a few 150 units on the Exeter to Plymouth line to fill the gaps that will be left.

Or give SWT some 158 units from FGW, freed up by the LM 150 units.

What are the Ivybridge commuters, school children going to do now?

>:(

Not more!! We already have lost enough. Perhaps the DfT should subsidise the lease of an additional class 142 so that Ivybridge can have an improved service.

Also - Ivbridge doesn't warrant a 150 and is therefore a waste of resources which could be used elsewhere in Devon.

You would need to at least find a way of replacing the 1748 service from Plymouth, as that's a key Ivybridge commuter service.

I'll pretend I didn't read that comment  >:(

To be fair, Btline may be adapting an idea that I came up with (link below.)
http://www.raildocuments.org.uk/jan08/stage2.doc

My reasoning was as follows :

1) The 158's would have allowed SWT to introduce an hourly London Waterloo-Bristol service.

2) As part of the deal, FGW would have received new-build units for the Portsmouth-Cardiff service from the DfT's 1300 carriages, thus balancing out the loss of the 158's.

3) Some of FGW's remaining 158's would have been allocated to Devon/Cornwall services.

I like that idea!  ;D
I have also noticed you only put Devon/Cornwall Local Services. I may play around with that, see what diagramms would get what, if that is OK.

Oh crumbs, I have seemed to cause quite a misunderstanding! :o

At no point did I suggest that FGW give up any of their units. ;)

I meant that incoming stock (such as the "new build" that Lee suggested) could off set a few 158s for SWT to keep the Devon services.

I was assuming that SWT would want 158s to keep a standard fleet.

Has this cleared it up?  ???

To a degree. Yes SWT can have FGW 158s if these are replaced by new rolling stock but not if they are being replaced by worn out 150/1s from London Midland for long distance services such as Cardiff-Portsmouth and services in Devon and Cornwall where 158s are currently diagramed.

True, although I had assumed that FGW had decided to re-diagram all West routes to 75 mph, for reliability and stock issues!

Lee, the 158s were replacements for the class 170 fleet that are now on the Manchester to Hull TPE route. In addition, their primary purpose with SWT are for the Salisbury 6 service, and the franchise requirement of 2 trains in each peak in the flow of traffic to be 10 coaches long. This utilises 9 of the 11 that SWT have, of which 2 are currently away at EMT of course.

Thanks for that, swlines. I think that you are reffering to 158's that SWT have already received.

My main aim in proposing that SWT have some of the FGW 158's in addition to the 158's that SWT already have now (as long as FGW receive new-build units to compensate) was to give them the resources required to introduce an hourly London Waterloo-Bristol service. Of course, there's no law that says that SWT would have to use the ex-FGW 158's on the new London Waterloo-Bristol services, and it would be up to them to decide which units from the enlarged overall SWT fleet would be best suited to that task.


That's fine qprrule. One of the reasons that I only put Devon/Cornwall services was because I dont pretend to know as much about that part of the network as forum members from the area concerned. As such, I was rather hoping that someone would "pick up the baton" on that, so to speak.

I will be very interested to see what you, and indeed others, come up with.

Thanks Lee, Please can you post the link to the thread where you orginally posted your plans. Many thanks.

Here it is (link below.)
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=1407.msg8181#msg8181

The view from Ivybridge Rail Users Group on the possible cuts to SWT services west of Exeter (link below.)
http://www.irug.ik.com/news/6367105698.ikml

THIS ISN'T GOOD. I think I am gonna start a petition for a replacement company for SWT.

I think maybe fgw could introduce some London-paignton/plymouth services to replace the swt service.

As much I agree with you, it was actually the D(a)fT (department for tarmac) who specified these very useful services being dropped from the timetable!

Perhaps we should lobby to get rid of the government, not that it would be difficult the way they are headed ;)

How about lobby for more rolling stock instead.... problem solved for all TOCs!

And the Labour government is going to fund it are they?

Sorry, are Labour funding the new 390s? Not as far as I'm aware.

The ROSCOs fund new trains, but only after approval from the DfT.

IMHO they should build some more 158's or 159's.
Best train there is.

Hi, Walrusthefirst ... and welcome to the Forum.

I've actually run a petition - and I got 1700 signatures.   But I'm going to suggest you think very VERY carefully before you start one.   A petition that just gets just a handful of signatures can do more harm than good, and the working needs to be so RIGHT in order for as wide a constituency as possible to support it. 

Reading your other posts, I suspect that you're much more familiar with the Berks and Hants section than South Devon, and that you could be that much more helpful in South Devon by working with IRUG (Ivybridge Rail Users Group) or others in a co-ordinated effort;  I'm sure they already have a lot of local background and know just what will be most useful!

bring back the class 101!