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Title: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 05, 2017, 07:33:30 The office of road and rail will be publishing their station use stats (via their web site) on Wednesday 6th December.
http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/release-schedule Although there are many special cases and oddities in these figures (largely born out by special case and oddities in the ticketing system), they provide a very useful if belated year on year comparison on a station by station basis. A time of these figures for each year is available on this site via the "Station Comparator" link at the top of every forum page, and I would hope to add the new data within 24 hours of it being published. Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 11:31:31 Published on the ORR web site (moved a week earlier since I looked)
http://orr.gov.uk/__data/assets/excel_doc/0012/26130/estimates-of-station-usage-2016-17.xlsx Title: Station usage figures 2016-17 Post by: charles_uk on December 01, 2017, 13:02:39 Just picked up on the latest Estimates of Station Usage figures for the Cotswold Line. Some interesting numbers. Possibly Oxford Parkway is having an effect. Hanborough and Charlbury have both seen big drops. Hanborough down from 271K to 239K and Charlbury 328K to 295K. Kingham is pretty much static whilst Evesham and Moreton-in-Marsh have seen small increases.
http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates (http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates) [edited to clarify comments related to Cotswold Line services as post has been moved to main station usage thread] Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 13:45:20 Here are the UK top 100 in growth from last year, but note that my list does not include stations opened since I started doing this a few years back (Christmas project!). I have also removed stations with less than 10k passengers - leaving me with 2271 records.
Code: 1 3.1716 BIT 413432 1311238 Bicester Town and worst cases: Code: 2172 0.8223 MRS 24264 19952 Monks Risborough Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 13:51:19 Same thing over 4 years (noting how hard it is to sustain growth!)
Quote WomanWithCat:17csv grahamellis$ python g4 | sort -r | cat -n | head -20 1 17.0986 DAK 21506 367722 Dalmarnock 2 6.1810 MKM 12080 74666 Melksham 3 6.1154 BIT 214416 1311238 Bicester Town 4 4.6512 CRS 20610 95862 Carstairs 5 4.5765 CLP 461490 2112006 Clapham High Street 6 3.8127 OLD 1396260 5323546 Old Street 7 3.5451 DGL 30490 108090 Dingle Road 8 3.1679 NCT 237509 752394 Newark Castle 9 3.1426 HKM 34244 107614 Hykeham 10 3.1104 OMS 727620 2263204 Ormskirk 11 2.9737 RHI 30330 90192 Rhiwbina 12 2.9315 BCG 19214 56326 Birchgrove 13 2.8045 SDL 471804 1323174 Sandhills 14 2.7157 TWN 141760 384974 Town Green 15 2.6820 LOF 496262 1330998 London Fields 16 2.6201 WEH 4056878 10629626 West Ham 17 2.5996 WWR 312730 812972 Wandsworth Road 18 2.5969 STM 387532 1006394 St.Michaels 19 2.5808 CBH 296692 765702 Cambridge Heath 20 2.5674 AUG 78136 200604 Aughton Park WomanWithCat:17csv grahamellis$ python g4 | sort -r | cat -n | tail -20 2240 0.5392 WMW 405656 218732 Walthamstow Queens Road 2241 0.5321 AGR 63040 33544 Angel Road 2242 0.5236 FGH 35520 18600 Fishguard Harbour 2243 0.5158 SOV 3640338 1877587 Southend Victoria 2244 0.5119 STO 799950 409534 South Tottenham 2245 0.5051 MSO 134966 68174 Moston 2246 0.4610 UHL 900538 415180 Upper Holloway 2247 0.4473 CRH 636424 284672 Crouch Hill 2248 0.4275 HRY 955660 408558 Harringay Green Lanes 2249 0.3429 PRA 343782 117870 Prestwick Internat'nl Airport 2250 0.3389 WNP 627170 212572 Wanstead Park 2251 0.3258 WGR 602428 196244 Woodgrange Park 2252 0.3012 LEM 951730 286620 Leyton Midland Road 2253 0.2871 LER 733060 210496 Leytonstone High Road 2254 0.2413 LZB 17198 4150 Lazonby & Kirkoswald 2255 0.2240 EBV 254956 57108 Ebbw Vale Parkway 2256 0.1975 EBB 1175766 232206 Ebbsfleet International 2257 0.1697 DLH 28102 4768 Doleham 2258 0.1669 LGW 24752 4132 Langwathby 2259 0.0492 IBM 122590 6032 IBM WomanWithCat:17csv grahamellis$ Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Red Squirrel on December 01, 2017, 14:03:41 Woman with cat?
Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 14:15:50 Woman with cat? No spaces and capitalise the W and C. Yes. Name of the computer I'm working on today. Our systems are names after Wizard of Oz characters. End titles include "Woman With Cat" ... and that was the name chosen. I need to re-watch the film to see where she appears, but too busy today! Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 14:21:02 Graphs and time series updated at:
http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php Base of page includes a box to type in postcode letters and / or change the normalising year for the graphs, or modify the following URL - this example being for Bristol based on changes from 2016 http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=BS&baseyear=2016 Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 14:49:27 Finally in this series, I have updated the "Station Comparator" that's at the top of the pages - or link in to an example:
http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/SOA.html Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: paul7575 on December 01, 2017, 15:41:10 In your table, gleaned from the latest figures, I think there's possibly a group of NW stations that were impacted by a fairly long route closure while they rebuilt Farnworth tunnel. Possibly not 'real' growth.
No criticism intended though, it would be very difficult for you to keep abreast of everything across the whole country. Paul Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 16:27:44 In your table, gleaned from the latest figures, I think there's possibly a group of NW stations that were impacted by a fairly long route closure while they rebuilt Farnworth tunnel. Possibly not 'real' growth. No criticism intended though, it would be very difficult for you to keep abreast of everything across the whole country. Paul There are all sorts of issues with the data when you start asking "why?" ... and I've intentionally not started to look at distortions this year across all the stations. I have taken a look at the Melksham figure, compared it to the estimates I had, compared it to how I think we're doing this year, and factored into my historic series the ticketing abnormalities we had in the last decade. Appreciate the comments about the North West area .... looking at the services as it develops over years, that stuff will even out. Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: LiskeardRich on December 01, 2017, 17:59:05 Coombe junction a 10 times increase...
Remove the crowd gainer day still a four times increase. I can guess why, all the enthusiasts were using it to see the moorswater workings as the scheduled freight working was just after a coombe service! (And me, about 20 journeys) Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 01, 2017, 18:08:50 Here are the stations with under 250 passengers in either of the last 2 years:
Code: 0.0676 RBS 740 50 British Steel Redcar Congratulations to Coombe, Pilning and Chapelton within the GWR area - we no longer have any "under 200" stations! Title: Re: Station usage figures 2016-17 Post by: Richard Fairhurst on December 02, 2017, 11:54:06 Just picked up on the latest Estimates of Station Usage figures for the Cotswold Line. Some interesting numbers. Possibly Oxford Parkway is having an effect. Hanborough and Charlbury have both seen big drops. Hanborough down from 271K to 239K and Charlbury 328K to 295K. Very interesting. I suspect this is the double whammy of Oxford Parkway opening and GWR imposing more off-peak ticket restrictions on the Cotswold Line. Anecdotally I've been surprised how many Charlbury residents have started using Oxford Parkway for much or all of their London travel. Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Oxonhutch on December 02, 2017, 17:56:35 Also the swap-over between Bicester North (huge drop) and Village (significant gain)
Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 02, 2017, 18:05:21 Also the swap-over between Bicester North (huge drop) and Village (significant gain) And when you add them up, there's an overall 22% gain Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on February 12, 2018, 16:41:03 Interesting graphic of the numbers - on a map, size by value and colour by ticket type
http://oobrien.com/2018/01/railway-station-numbers/ (http://www.wellho.net/pix/stationusagetype.jpg) Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: lympstone_commuter on February 16, 2018, 10:42:55 That's a very interesting graphic!
In a similar spirit - I've been trying to teach myself more about data visualisation, and thought I could usefully use the latest ORR data as a test case. I've put together this clickable map: http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm (http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm) which aims to summarise annual percentage rates of growth at UK stations since 2005 (there's a break in the data in 2004, and it looks as if the data collection methodology changed then anyway - see KGX!). Some interesting clusters of dark blue (strong growth) stand out. I'd welcome suggestions for how to improve the visualisation. Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on February 16, 2018, 11:31:13 That's a very interesting graphic! In a similar spirit - I've been trying to teach myself more about data visualisation, and thought I could usefully use the latest ORR data as a test case. I've put together this clickable map: http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm (http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm) which aims to summarise annual percentage rates of growth at UK stations since 2005 (there's a break in the data in 2004, and it looks as if the data collection methodology changed then anyway - see KGX!). Some interesting clusters of dark blue (strong growth) stand out. I'd welcome suggestions for how to improve the visualisation. And that is a hugely interesting graphic too!! There is indeed a missing year of data I would love (additionally) to see the same graphic for the last six years or so - giving more current trends. Just a year or two's data would be subject to the vagaries of individual years which to some extent is evened out by a longer period. It's very noticeable that a handful of services have really struggled, and that many more have grown wonderfully! Title: Re: 2016/17 Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: lympstone_commuter on February 19, 2018, 10:10:18 That's a very good point, grahame - many thanks for the suggestion.
I have split the data to give two maps, a 'long term' one for the period 2005 - 2017 (as before) and a 'recent trend' one for the shorter period 2012 - 2017: http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm (http://empslocal.ex.ac.uk/people/staff/tej202/stations.htm) It is striking how much more orange and red there is on the 'recent' map as growth rates have (generally) slowed across the country. Melksham's stunning recent growth is an honourable exception to this pattern, of course! Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 01, 2018, 02:43:13 http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/publication-dates
Estimates of Station Usage - Official Statistics ... Annual (2017-18) ... to be published on 11th December 2018. What odds are your local bookmaker offering? Which are going to be the big winners and losers? Personal diary note to be around to update our station comparator (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/index.html) and graphics (http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=EX) (http://www.wellho.net/demo/railtrends.php?place=BA&baseyear=2010) Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: IndustryInsider on November 01, 2018, 11:51:48 What's your guess/hope for Melksham this time then, Graham?
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 01, 2018, 13:24:29 What's your guess/hope for Melksham this time then, Graham? Fools rush in .... The figure to March 2017 was 74,666 - up from 60,676 the year before and 51,858 they year before that. I think we would be lucky to maintain the figure of 75,000 in the year April 2017 to March 2018. By April 2017, the peak train was full and standing to the extent that people were no longer being added to the train - there simply wasn't the capacity. The promised increase to 2 cars in May 2017 didn't happen until the New Year, still with occasional uses of a single carriage train. The last one car (153) I had the pleasure of using was on 15th June - with the train manager walking along the outside at Swindon, banging on the windows and asking people to move up. Come summer 2017, reliability went down the tubes ... and TransWilts is such an easy service to cancel, never mind that it's a real hardship to customers as there isn't going to be another one along in 30 minutes ... and puts them off for a long time to come. Early 2018 brought a loss of daytime services because of engineering works at Newbury and rail replacement buses that don't even connect properly at both ends are not popular. And it brought storms that shut the TransWilts long after everything else was open. Looking forward at the current year - results in December 2019 - we still have most of the effect of the Newbury engineering to factor in, but I'm seeing signs that thing are once again on the up. And of course we still have a completely false sign at Melksham Station telling people of engineering from 19th to 22nd of this month (yes, I have reported it several times!) and those who read it are making other plans, and we have the 12 days of Christmas coming where Westury means that ... whatever gifts the twelve days of Christmas might bring ... none of those gifts will arrive by train! Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 01, 2018, 15:00:58 I can hardly wait to see how The Pilning stats are looking,after all the messing about that we have had to put up with this last year ?.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: 0lg4 on November 14, 2018, 18:16:39 I can hardly wait to see how The Pilning stats are looking,after all the messing about that we have had to put up with this last year ?. The Pilning stats will look glamorous. Thank you for your concerns.Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Western Pathfinder on November 14, 2018, 18:21:00 A very Warm Welcome to you Olg4 it's good to see you hear at last 😉
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 14, 2018, 18:28:59 I can hardly wait to see how The Pilning stats are looking,after all the messing about that we have had to put up with this last year ?. The Pilning stats will look glamorous. Thank you for your concerns.From http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=BS&baseyear=default Quote Pilning 245 117 159 125 130 166 178 146 130 88 68 46 230 We're wondering if it will be the best year on record? Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 14, 2018, 19:23:42 Possible figure for 2023/4, once tolls on the Severn Bridge have been removed and there are platforms available off the B road or A road, both of which will be easily reached from the bridge once the new motorway junction has gone in. Cardiff to Taunton and Taunton to Cardiff trains stopping daily, hourly.
300 parking spaces occupied on an average day, 5 days per week, 48 weeks per year. Average car occupancy 1.2 people - 173,000 journeys per annum. 72,000 days of parking at £5 = £360,000 Would it be attractive? Come over the bridge, park up near the motorway and be in Bristol Temple Meads 20 minutes later. No congestion ... PLUS local passengers from Pilning - what a wonderful place to live if you work in Bristol. Up go house values. Plus - oh I won't repeat all the SEWWEB stuff ... Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Red Squirrel on November 14, 2018, 19:55:05 I always bristle slightly when I see Clifton Down showing a rise of over 200% whilst Montpelier and Redland languish at 116% and 109%... a lot of those Clifton Down tickets were actually for Redland or Montpelier, but because of the zonal fares busy guards just dial in CFN and have done. And then there is the still significant number of journeys for which no fare is collected.
I know FOSBR do occasional surveys that count real journeys, but presumably these (distorted) DfT figures are the ones that count? Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 14, 2018, 20:14:52 I know FOSBR do occasional surveys that count real journeys, but presumably these (distorted) DfT figures are the ones that count? The DfT are not as daft as we sometimes make out. Their man on the GW franchise knows pretty well where the distortions are. But a distortion leaves the problem "so what figure do we use in any predictions / calculations" and there is no good answer; just makes for even more uncertain discussions. Been there with Melksham discussions; I would much rather we didn't have these oddities, even if they make "our" station look better than in should be. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: CMRail on November 14, 2018, 21:19:02 I am not saying that Pilning deserves improvements but without the fame surrounding Pilning the past few years would it have furtherly decreased again?
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: 1st fan on November 14, 2018, 23:24:18 I always bristle slightly when I see Clifton Down showing a rise of over 200% whilst Montpelier and Redland languish at 116% and 109%... a lot of those Clifton Down tickets were actually for Redland or Montpelier, but because of the zonal fares busy guards just dial in CFN and have done. And then there is the still significant number of journeys for which no fare is collected. I know FOSBR do occasional surveys that count real journeys, but presumably these (distorted) DfT figures are the ones that count? TFL were caught out when trying to close the Olympia branch of the District Line. They claimed low usage of the service but somebody pointed out that they had no way of knowing this. The exits at the station weren't segregated and the rail passengers used the same ticket gates. They then had to employ two people to record actual numbers of passengers. Someone put in a FOI request to find out what options the TFL board were being asked to choose between. TFL stalled giving a response to the request for which they were rapped on the knuckles over. A public meeting was arranged where TFL sent their man and some flunkies to answer some questions. At the meeting the TFL bloke stood up and said that no decidion to close the line had been taken. All options were still on the table and this meeting was an important part of the decision making process. There were some very angry people and a disabled gentleman in a wheelchair asked how he was supposed to get home. The TFL bloke said that was easy, go to West Brompton and cross over to the overground northbound platform. Disabled bloke said he found it difficult to get his wheelchair up the stairs and that made using West Brompton difficult. TFL bloke says don't be silly you can just use the lift to much loud laughter in the room. Disabled bloke says that the southbound district line platform doesn't have step free access. TFL bloke goes to disagree and one of his flunkies quietly points out that actually it isn't step free to more laughter. So the next suggestion is a bus and he didn't like being told that there wasn't a bus that went from Earl's Court to Olympia direct. The alternative route by bus requires catching the C1 bus from EC to the Comonwealth Institute on Kensington High Street and then there is a choice of three buses. Then somone else points out that the walking distances given by TFL as an alternative route for those not reliant on a wheelchair are a lot lower than the actual distances which people have measured with GPS, on Google maps and surprisingly their own TFL journey planner - Whoops. When the options the board were given to choose from were finally released (which was after the decision was taken) they didn't actually have an option where a meaningful service was retained. They were basically only saying they would run a parliamentary service during the weekdays and a more normal service at the weekends. The early morning trains that were still going to run were those that came to Olympia out of the depot before starting their service. The conection to all this with GWR/FGW is the TFL bloke who was Richard Parry and went on to join the FGW bid team for the West Coast Mainline. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on November 15, 2018, 00:22:00 I am not saying that Pilning deserves improvements but without the fame surrounding Pilning the past few years would it have furtherly decreased again? Perhaps a couple of dozen stations at the extreme end of a list of stations by passenger numbers will tend to go up and down based on special activities rather than by ambient traffic flows. In fact a surprising number are influenced by community promotion - witness how Community Rail lines and stations have tended to do rather better in proportion to lines and stations not so covered. Clearly, local interest in a railway and people saying "use our train" generates traffic ... For the bottom one or two, the very fact of being in that club will encourage people to come along and move them out of that club ... expect huge growth at Shippea Hill this year. This is most likely to be cyclic and they'll fall back again. If the number move up and stay up you'll see that there is true (local) love for the station and caring for it, and if Pilning remains significantly above what it was two years ago this year, it shows there's something happening there more than a flash in the pan - rather there's an effective team which makes a difference and is persistent. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: paul7575 on November 15, 2018, 00:25:20 They still withdrew the weekday Olympia service, despite all the consultation...
Paul Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: 1st fan on November 15, 2018, 16:10:24 They still withdrew the weekday Olympia service, despite all the consultation... Paul Yeah it became obvious that they never intended to run anything other than a parliamentary service on weekdays. The consultation and meeting were just a PR exercise designed to appease the local population. What didn't make much sense was the fact that Olympia was expanding and Earl's Court was closing when they took the decision. They also have to run shuttle busses at really popular events because otherwise the Overground and Wimbledon district line would be overloaded. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: martyjon on November 15, 2018, 16:36:34 They still withdrew the weekday Olympia service, despite all the consultation... Paul Yeah it became obvious that they never intended to run anything other than a parliamentary service on weekdays. The consultation and meeting were just a PR exercise designed to appease the local population. What didn't make much sense was the fact that Olympia was expanding and Earl's Court was closing when they took the decision. They also have to run shuttle busses at really popular events because otherwise the Overground and Wimbledon district line would be overloaded. That's what you call 'a fait accompli', call a public consultation having made a decision 'in committee' just to tick a box with no intention of taking the views of the public into consideration in re-examining 'in committee' resolutions. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Trowres on November 15, 2018, 18:55:05 Possible figure for 2023/4, once tolls on the Severn Bridge have been removed and there are platforms available off the B road or A road, both of which will be easily reached from the bridge once the new motorway junction has gone in. Cardiff to Taunton and Taunton to Cardiff trains stopping daily, hourly. 300 parking spaces occupied on an average day, 5 days per week, 48 weeks per year. Average car occupancy 1.2 people - 173,000 journeys per annum. 72,000 days of parking at £5 = £360,000 Would it be attractive? Come over the bridge, park up near the motorway and be in Bristol Temple Meads 20 minutes later. No congestion ... PLUS local passengers from Pilning - what a wonderful place to live if you work in Bristol. Up go house values. Plus - oh I won't repeat all the SEWWEB stuff ... I suspect this post was meant to be somewhat light-hearted, but the concept makes me despair. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 06:37:17 Due today http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/publication-dates
via http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates Assuming that the release does happen (pretty probable!) I will update stations pages and graphs tonight - doing my day job during the day today! Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: ChrisB on December 11, 2018, 12:10:14 Yes, they're out.
Top 7 stay the same, although Waterloo is still top, throughputs are down, and haven't gone over the 100.000,000 mark. Bottom is now British Steel Redcar. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 12:32:42 Yes, they're out. Top 7 stay the same, although Waterloo is still top, throughputs are down, and haven't gone over the 100.000,000 mark. Bottom is now British Steel Redcar. ? Where ... my links not showing new data Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 12:35:05 Yes, they're out. Top 7 stay the same, although Waterloo is still top, throughputs are down, and haven't gone over the 100.000,000 mark. Bottom is now British Steel Redcar. ? Where ... my links not showing new data OK ... found them Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 13:28:43 What's your guess/hope for Melksham this time then, Graham? Fools rush in .... The figure to March 2017 was 74,666 - up from 60,676 the year before and 51,858 they year before that. I think we would be lucky to maintain the figure of 75,000 in the year April 2017 to March 2018. Sadly, I got that right - we have fallen back from 74,666 to 74,220 - just 99.4% of the previous year. Quote By April 2017, the peak train was full and standing to the extent that people were no longer being added to the train - there simply wasn't the capacity. The promised increase to 2 cars in May 2017 didn't happen until the New Year, still with occasional uses of a single carriage train. The last one car (153) I had the pleasure of using was on 15th June - with the train manager walking along the outside at Swindon, banging on the windows and asking people to move up. Come summer 2017, reliability went down the tubes ... and TransWilts is such an easy service to cancel, never mind that it's a real hardship to customers as there isn't going to be another one along in 30 minutes ... and puts them off for a long time to come. Early 2018 brought a loss of daytime services because of engineering works at Newbury and rail replacement buses that don't even connect properly at both ends are not popular. And it brought storms that shut the TransWilts long after everything else was open. At 99.4% we haven't done too badly - Trowbridge is 94.6%, Bradford-on-Avon 96.8%, Westbury 98.4%, Warminster 95.1%, Chippenham 97.5% ... so in spite of overcrowded trains (when running) and loss of passenger (when not or bustitited) w've kept pretty much ahead of the game - the whole game has slipped back though. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: IndustryInsider on December 11, 2018, 13:37:36 I guess the key is to make sure everyone (press included) understands the reason(s) and doesn’t come to the wrong conclusion as to why numbers are down.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 11, 2018, 13:51:07 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going
Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Phantom on December 11, 2018, 14:49:35 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Adelante_CCT on December 11, 2018, 15:02:12 The ORR statistics are aware of that:
Quote Explanation of large change User group campaign Source for explanation of large change http://www.pilningstation.uk/why-it-matters Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 15:20:55 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. The ORR statistics are aware of that: Quote Explanation of large change User group campaign Source for explanation of large change http://www.pilningstation.uk/why-it-matters I caught the train at Pilning a couple of weeks back ... and noted "proper passengers". For sure, the user group is encouraging people to use the station as best they can and that may well be how the proper passengers found out about it. For sure waymarking to the station from the village is notable by its absence. Good to have the ORR noting the local support at their London base - putting the station and group on the radar. That's the second year of good growth too, which indicates consistency of local support, another factor that would make anyone looking to improve services there feel rather more comfortable. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: dhassell on December 11, 2018, 16:06:11 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... At the end of the day, passengers are passengers, regardless of their interests! Also in the cases of other 'least used stations', their figures seem to rise/drop everytime there is a mass visit to a station, the stats for Pilning so far are consistent. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 17:03:46 I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. Welcome to the forum! What you read is Phantom's view ... I don't share it. "Distortion"s as I would describe them come in with some of the ticket sales anomalies such as buying tickets to other stations beyond where you're going as they may be cheaper, or splitting your journey at Didcot which (on return trip) will give 4 uses that don't exist Quote At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... At the end of the day, passengers are passengers, regardless of their interests! Also in the cases of other 'least used stations', their figures seem to rise/drop everytime there is a mass visit to a station, the stats for Pilning so far are consistent. Exactly what user groups and community rail groups are encouraged to do - especially if (as Pilning) they are consistent / growing from one year to the next. P.S. You Avatar looks like it might be one of the tunnels just to the west of Aztec West Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: dhassell on December 11, 2018, 18:01:28 I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. Welcome to the forum! What you read is Phantom's view ... I don't share it. "Distortion"s as I would describe them come in with some of the ticket sales anomalies such as buying tickets to other stations beyond where you're going as they may be cheaper, or splitting your journey at Didcot which (on return trip) will give 4 uses that don't exist Quote At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... At the end of the day, passengers are passengers, regardless of their interests! Also in the cases of other 'least used stations', their figures seem to rise/drop everytime there is a mass visit to a station, the stats for Pilning so far are consistent. Exactly what user groups and community rail groups are encouraged to do - especially if (as Pilning) they are consistent / growing from one year to the next. P.S. You Avatar looks like it might be one of the tunnels just to the west of Aztec West Thank you! I have used that Didcot example quite a few times... (probably into the hundreds of times :P :-X) Yes, my avatar photo was taken from Over Lane in between the two Patchway Tunnels on the down line. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Western Pathfinder on December 11, 2018, 18:20:23 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... At the end of the day, passengers are passengers, regardless of their interests! Also in the cases of other 'least used stations', their figures seem to rise/drop everytime there is a mass visit to a station, the stats for Pilning so far are consistent. Firstly Welcome Always pleased to see a supportive member of The Pilning legends ! And do please take time to have a good look around the Coffee Shop plenty to see and do here . As you will know I'm one of the people that does my bit to fly the flag for Pilning And have put a great deal of time and effort into that support Should it be the case that my previous comment about Some Real Passengers has been misinterpreted,let me make it clear hear and now, the support that a small number of like minded individuals can give to a campaign like Pilning is marvellous and everyone connected to Pilning has worked very very hard to get the numbers up over the last couple of years ,But there are only so many journeys that a small number of people can make ,given two services a week both on the same day and in the same direction. So now with this excellent rise in the number of people traveling to and from the Station we have to look at widening the appeal and actively encouraging members of the ordinary traveling public to do the same,in other words Real Passengers. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: dhassell on December 11, 2018, 18:35:53 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... At the end of the day, passengers are passengers, regardless of their interests! Also in the cases of other 'least used stations', their figures seem to rise/drop everytime there is a mass visit to a station, the stats for Pilning so far are consistent. Firstly Welcome Always pleased to see a supportive member of The Pilning legends ! And do please take time to have a good look around the Coffee Shop plenty to see and do here . As you will know I'm one of the people that does my bit to fly the flag for Pilning And have put a great deal of time and effort into that support Should it be the case that my previous comment about Some Real Passengers has been misinterpreted,let me make it clear hear and now, the support that a small number of like minded individuals can give to a campaign like Pilning is marvellous and everyone connected to Pilning has worked very very hard to get the numbers up over the last couple of years ,But there are only so many journeys that a small number of people can make ,given two services a week both on the same day and in the same direction. So now with this excellent rise in the number of people traveling to and from the Station we have to look at widening the appeal and actively encouraging members of the ordinary traveling public to do the same,in other words Real Passengers. My comments where wholly aimed at Phantom's post. I agree that the way forward for Pilning is to try and attract more 'proper passengers'. I just don't agree that those traveling now are 'distorting' passenger numbers by using the station. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Adrian on December 11, 2018, 20:14:05 Which 12 months does the data cover? I'm sure it must be there in the notes somewhere, but I don't see this information.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: stuving on December 11, 2018, 20:20:34 Which 12 months does the data cover? I'm sure it must be there in the notes somewhere, but I don't see this information. It's the first FAQ: Quote What is the reference period for the estimates of station usage? The estimates of station usage are based on the financial year. Each year runs from 1 April to 31 March. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Adrian on December 11, 2018, 20:28:25 Which 12 months does the data cover? I'm sure it must be there in the notes somewhere, but I don't see this information. It's the first FAQ: Quote What is the reference period for the estimates of station usage? The estimates of station usage are based on the financial year. Each year runs from 1 April to 31 March. Thanks. So that means this set is prior to all the various works on the main line between Bristol Parkway to Cardiff. No doubt that will have some impact on next year's numbers. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 11, 2018, 20:37:20 Due today http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/publication-dates via http://orr.gov.uk/statistics/published-stats/station-usage-estimates Assuming that the release does happen (pretty probable!) I will update stations pages and graphs tonight - doing my day job during the day today! OK ... the station comparator on the top of these pages and the postcode area graphs have been updated to add in today's release of figures. So you have pages like http://www.wellho.net/demo/railuse.php?place=BA andhttp://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/FRO.html Please note I need to check the percentages by which traffic has risen / fallen is being displayed for the years it says it is for, and also I need to add about 4 dozen stations which have come on tap since the data / these charts were started. That's now made an easier job as the ORR are publishing a time series - I should probably charge them for the idea because I was doing it here before them ;D ... but it does mean I can check against and switch to their data - which also goes back further. Just not doing it tonight or indeed this week. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: RailCornwall on December 11, 2018, 23:00:32 An hour to waste .... The 'all the STATIONS' crew have done an hour's chat on these figures tonight.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KDWVHXDWI_4 Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: lympstone_commuter on December 11, 2018, 23:01:56 Fascinating to see that Exeter Central has overtaken Exeter St David's for the first time (ever?)
2,607,502 versus 2,605,166 Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Phantom on December 12, 2018, 09:53:05 Pilning Station up 107.8% not bad going Now if they could encourage some proper passengers!. I noticed there was a twitter group trying to get people to travel there to distort the numbers I personally don't see how getting people to use the station is 'distorting the numbers'. At the end of the day, a twitter group can't physically force someone to use the station. They can persuade someone though... The Twitter group is exactly that, they use these figures to highlight stations with little usage and then organise days out to visit these stations. it's kind of a badge of honor to them to not only to visit these stations but to also see a spike in usage figures Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: LiskeardRich on December 12, 2018, 10:43:35 Coombe junction dropped from 212 to 156, but that it is a real life increase, as the 16/17 crowd getter event generated 108 on the event.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 12, 2018, 13:12:42 Sorry, meant as in the numbers are not a true reflection of those people that are using the station because they need to. The Twitter group is exactly that, they use these figures to highlight stations with little usage and then organise days out to visit these stations. it's kind of a badge of honor to them to not only to visit these stations but to also see a spike in usage figures The whole "need" v "want", and "want because encouraged" is an interesting discussion. Most people who use Trowbridge station use it because they need to. They live there, work there, have business there. The traffic for people coming to see the Trowbridge Museum, the Teasel dryers or the Isaac Pitman train because they want to is (sadly) low ... and the town lacks a harbour, sandy beaches or a theme park. A lot of people use St Ives station not because they need to, but because they want to. It's a great day out and when on holiday why not go there? It's in holiday area, an excellent choice, and it does have some of those things that Trowbridge lacks. For a small number of people, there is more pleasure in the journey and aspects of it that the destination, and where a station's use is low, those people will be a significant part of the station usage but, yes, for the station to grow to a sustainable passenger number you need to encourage others as well - lunch trips to The Plough, take your surfboard to The Wave, travel to work at Westgate ... connect to the bus to Wildplace ... and service start to increase to meet the demand. Up to a certain level of service and you then become a viable commute for residents into the nearby city and as they take jobs there you move up from want to need, you put up property values, you encourage some more housing perhaps. The great oak tree that can grow from the current acorn of one of our least used (but much increased to show it can be done) stations. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: stuving on December 12, 2018, 13:30:34 The whole "need" v "want", and "want because encouraged" is an interesting discussion. It may be, but surely there is one relevant sense in which the "friends of poor little put-upon Pilning station" journeys are less real. That's where you are using passenger numbers, and growth in those numbers, as a basis for forward projections to a future with more of a train service (and more of a station to go with it). Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Dispatch Box on December 12, 2018, 13:45:20 How many has Gloucester got, cant find anything about it.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 12, 2018, 13:46:18 The whole "need" v "want", and "want because encouraged" is an interesting discussion. It may be, but surely there is one relevant sense in which the "friends of poor little put-upon Pilning station" journeys are less real. That's where you are using passenger numbers, and growth in those numbers, as a basis for forward projections to a future with more of a train service (and more of a station to go with it). There is also the sense that they show that the station has community support - so perhaps they are more significant. I'm writing a press release for Melksham Rail User Group, where we have moved up from under 5 journeys each way per day - many of those to encourage use and promote a strange and underused service - to over 105 - many of those daily commutes, and few (these days) being those stepping stone journeys encouraged to prove that the community did support its station. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 12, 2018, 13:47:19 How many has Gloucester got, cant find anything about it. See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/GCR.html on this site Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Dispatch Box on December 12, 2018, 13:57:40 How many has Gloucester got, cant find anything about it. See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/smr/GCR.html on this site Thanks, OUR GRAHAM!, Was a riveting read, Sorry I sound a bit like cilla black. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: didcotdean on December 12, 2018, 16:22:41 "Distortion"s as I would describe them come in with some of the ticket sales anomalies such as buying tickets to other stations beyond where you're going as they may be cheaper, or splitting your journey at Didcot which (on return trip) will give 4 uses that don't exist Didcot has both potential distortions. A few years ago the Oxford-London season tickets bought at Didcot (same price as Didcot-London and more versatile) were added-in to the Didcot Parkway figures, but there is little that can be done about attributing those bought elsewhere and primarily used to/from Didcot.Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: grahame on December 12, 2018, 17:25:31 "Distortion"s as I would describe them come in with some of the ticket sales anomalies such as buying tickets to other stations beyond where you're going as they may be cheaper, or splitting your journey at Didcot which (on return trip) will give 4 uses that don't exist Didcot has both potential distortions. A few years ago the Oxford-London season tickets bought at Didcot (same price as Didcot-London and more versatile) were added-in to the Didcot Parkway figures, but there is little that can be done about attributing those bought elsewhere and primarily used to/from Didcot.Although the compilers make adjustments / calculations for group area tickets and rovers, etc, there is a limit to how far they can go; many issues are well known, and the comparison from one year to the next is often more important than the magnitude - with a further proviso that if a distortion is removed or added, that will show in year on year. Melksham figures from 2007 for some years were distorted by "Melksham Special" tickets - people travelling from Trowbridge to Bristol but bought Melksham to Bristol because it was cheaper. Real numbers were a tiny fraction of the ORR reported number - we knew it, and so did the powers that be. So we had numbers that allowed us to get looked at, but then no current evidence that anyone trusted. To this day ... off peak return Melksham to stations on the Severn Beach line are cheaper than off peak returns Melksham to Bristol. Numbers are low enough not to distort Bristol Temple Meads and people are travelling from Melksham anyway, but there's potential to "help" St Andrew's Road and save money too. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: stuving on December 14, 2018, 00:38:29 By coincidence, Arafer (the French road and rail regulator, somewhat like ORR) has just produced its annual report on railways (http://www.arafer.fr/publications-observatoire/) for (calendar) 2017. It's full of data - 65 pages of tables and bar charts - so I won't even attempt to summarise it. Unfortunately the regime was changed in 2016, so there isn't much history available, just last year's report on 2015 & 2016. There may be more elsewhere, though not in the same format and I suspect much less complete. Plus, of course, 2016 was a year with a long series of rail strikes in it, so comparisons are of questionable value. There are no figures for all the stations, either.
Given that caveat, they report a 7% overall increase in passenger numbers, after falls every year since 2011. They attribute this in part to the opening of two new LGVs (Bordeaux and Rennes). But I'm not sure what metric that's based on - there are also some annexes and a spreadsheet of data that may say something else. I did, however, find some numbers for stations (https://www.data.gouv.fr/fr/datasets/frequentation-en-gares/#_), from SNCF and on the data.gouv.fr open data site. These are estimates of unknown methodology, but not from ticket sales, of people present in stations as passengers, and for the biggest stations for other reasons too. The formatting of the .csv file is a bit odd, so I've tidied it up and will attach it and an Excel version. Note: years run 2016-2015-2014, and second column per year is total of visitors, travelling or not. Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: SandTEngineer on December 14, 2018, 16:25:40 .....and: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-wales-46209535
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: eightonedee on December 15, 2018, 15:30:59 Quote I did, however, find some numbers for stations, from SNCF and on the data.gouv.fr open data site. These are estimates of unknown methodology, but not from ticket sales, of people present in stations as passengers, and for the biggest stations for other reasons too. The formatting of the .csv file is a bit odd, so I've tidied it up and will attach it and an Excel version. Note: years run 2016-2015-2014, and second column per year is total of visitors, travelling or not. Thanks Stuving - that's fascinating! In some ways France is like the UK - by far the largest numbers at the termini and major commuter interchanges in the capital city. However outside (possibly) Lyons, Lille and Strasbourg the main centres outside Paris seem to have less commuter traffic than Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow or even Reading. If the figures for passengers include those changing trains, and if Reading was in France it would be the second busiest station in France outside Greater Paris after Lyons Part Dieu! Presumably the blanks for the latest year represent closed stations. There seem quite a few with very small (single figure) numbers. I googled the 2 claiming only 2 passengers (Croix D'Hins and La Roche en Brenil), the former closed in 2012 and the latter in 2011. Are they perhaps keyboard mistakes when tickets were sold? Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: stuving on December 15, 2018, 18:19:41 In some ways France is like the UK - by far the largest numbers at the termini and major commuter interchanges in the capital city. However outside (possibly) Lyons, Lille and Strasbourg the main centres outside Paris seem to have less commuter traffic than Birmingham, Leeds, Manchester, Edinburgh, Glasgow or even Reading. If the figures for passengers include those changing trains, and if Reading was in France it would be the second busiest station in France outside Greater Paris after Lyons Part Dieu! Provincial suburban rail services have always been a bit on the sparse side. In 1997 I was leaving Lyon and stopped to examine a couple of suburbs, one of which was Feyzin (11 km from the centre down the Rhone). I was struck then by how poor its rail service was, being essentially a few trains to and from work, some irregularly during the day, and last train by 19:00. Looking again now it has improved, to hourly, and twice hourly in the peaks, but while the last train from Lyon is later (21:24 ex Perrache) it's a bus (a typical SNCF trick). Though picking a single comparator is dodgy, somewhere like Tipton might do - on a main line but without the big intercity trains. It does have more trains, and the go on later, but with a similar passenger number (ca. 100,000). Presumably the blanks for the latest year represent closed stations. There seem quite a few with very small (single figure) numbers. I googled the 2 claiming only 2 passengers (Croix D'Hins and La Roche en Brenil), the former closed in 2012 and the latter in 2011. Are they perhaps keyboard mistakes when tickets were sold? I've found a big cache of SNCF's open data, which is where this came from, but still nothing to say how they got them. But remember that a station (or in the cases you give a whole line) that's closed is still likely to have buses that think they are TERs. In this there is a Mobigo "service" (http://viamobigo.fr/content/download/2649/35129/file/123%20DEP%20TRANSDEV-BFC_DEP-AVALLON-AUTUN-LR123_100818.pdf) - if you can call it that! Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: charles_uk on January 07, 2020, 10:44:01 Does anyone know when the 2018-19 figures are likely to be released? Normally they come out in December but the ORR website is still showing the 2017-18 figures as the most current.
Title: Re: Station Usage figures from the ORR Post by: Western Pathfinder on January 07, 2020, 10:51:10 It's later on this month on or about the 14th of January this year .
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