Great Western Coffee Shop

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/gwrpost.jpg)

(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/fair.jpg)

Exmouth? ???

No, afraid not - not even close geographically.

I haven't got the location yet, but whilst looking for potential candidates I came across this on Google Earth:

(https://drive.google.com/uc?id=0B8VBuNEcQ7EgWHc2YjhkelJHR3M)

Freaky!

That's a quiz in itself!

Were you burgling jewellery shops in London on your funky moped?

The bottom pic wants me to shout Tavistock goose fair, but the GWR sign threw me away from that.

Yes, that was the obvious choice but unfortunately it was 'p****g down that day which is why I didn't post it....... ::)

I've guessed the correct location in off forum messages with bobm. I'll let others continue to ponder...

Barry Island.

Sorry - wrong country (principality).

As a clue - don't let the GWR poster put you off.  Location isn't currently served by the railway.

Portishead.  :P

Go east my son...

Yes, that brickwork does have something of the Thames Valley about it. ::)

And it definitely isn't Taunton!  ;) :D ;D

I wouldn't dare tempt you with Taunton... ;D

I'll have another stab at it.  Royal Wootton Bassett.

Much closer - but still need to go further east....

psst ... Thames Valley.  ;)




I now know the correct answer, so I've stopped posting silly suggestions, such as Portishead (which really was 'tongue in cheek).  ;D

With the clue .. tentative guess at Abingdon

Spot on.

Apparently there is a law which requires there to be a fair each year on the Monday and Tuesday immediately before the 11th October.  It now stretches for over a mile down the Main Street which makes it the longest street fair in Europe.

I went to school there in the 70s and I’ll swear some of the stalls still have the same pitches now.

As to the GWR poster. Despite the fact the branch line closed to passengers in the 1960s I can remember seeing BR posters in those cases in the 70s.

Final fact. When I started there I was in Berkshire, when I finished I was in Oxfordshire.

Hmm.  A claim disputed by Kirkcaldy, in Fife (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Links_Market), apparently:


 ;) :D ;D

It is held on Old Michaelmas Day, as those in Abingdon still cling to the Julian calendar  ;D

Some of the pitches certainly have been in the same hands for generations.

The smaller Runaway Fair follows a week later - if you didn't like the person who hired you at the Michaelmas you could run away and try and get hired by someone better. These days the Runaway is targeted towards young children

The Chard  Carnival came up next ... but discussions took a step in a less lighter direction as a lady was critically injured there; those discussions now in a separate thread at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=18856.0

I've seen Old Michaelmas given as 10th October in the press, which it was from 1752-1800. During the 19th century it was the 11th, as bobm says. Since 1900 it's been the 12th - but if you're minded to use an out-of-date calendar, I guess using an out-of-date version of it would seem natural enough.

Details of how the date is arrived at is detailed on the Town Council website (http://www.abingdon.gov.uk/town-council-services/fairs).

The Calendar (New Style) Act 1750 required fairs after the 2nd September to remain on the same day as if the calendar change hadn't been made


How's that for obscurity :)

It is for a similar reason as to why the tax year is what it is; prior to the change it was aligned with the start of the year on Lady's Day, 25 March. Old Lady Day was 5 April until 1800, when they remembered to add in the extra day to make it 6 April. No one remembered or could be bothered in 1900 to change it again.

So I guess it didn't move forward to the 13th in 2000 because that was a leap year (whereas 1900, 1800 etc were not)?

Exactly: the two calendars were 10 days adrift in 1582 when the Gregorian one was first used, and that didn't change in 1600 (leap year in both), then slipped one more year each in 1700 (to 11), 1800 (to 12), and 1900 (to 13) but not 2000. The point being that making the correction and then sticking with the new date isn't the same as continuing to reckon by the old calendar.

I guess it was less than a lifetime to 1800, so it's not surprising there were still people keeping count of leap years the old way then (plus a lot unaware of the new centuries rule anyway). One special case is Christmas old-style, which became the 6th of January after 1800. By coincidence this is the Twelfth Day of Christmas (even if it's really the 13th inclusively). I suspect that has led to some confusion, making that date even less likely to move any more. Mind you, those Orthodox churches using the old calendar do now have Christmas on our 7th.

In my studies (such as they were) for Russian history at A level, I was always intrigued to note that their 'February Revolution' was in March, and their 'October Revolution' was in November, 1917.  See https://www.bl.uk/russian-revolution/articles/timeline-of-the-russian-revolution  ::)

That could very well have confused even Sean Connery, in 'The Hunt for Red October', if such things hadn't been sorted out subsequently.  ;D

I don't think it's quite that simple. Most Orthodox calendars have Christmas Day on the 7th, but for some it's on the 6th. There don't appear to be any Orthodox churches in Abingdon though, the nearest will be in Oxford.

And it accounts for our rather obscure tax year anniversary.

The first day of the year was historically the Feast of the Annunciation of Mary on 25th March, nine months before the birth of Christ. All business of the year, hiring of hands and property ran from that date. So when the extra 11 days were culled from the calendar (prompting rioting amongst the masses) the financial year was extended to 6th April so that nobody felt short changed.

It is a baffling variety, including the Revised Julian Calendar which even revises the Gregorian leap-year rule. But I should have noted what I wrote a bit earlier shouldn't I? For example, and for the avoiidance of doubt, "Mind you, those Orthodox churches continuing to observe the old calendar without any change do now have Christmas on our 7th."

Or you can be a year out. For example, the Acts of Union of 1707 were in practice two acts, each with its own formal title, one in each parliament. The Scottish act passed first, in January, followed by the final vote in England, in March, and the union began in May - all in the same year. So a (yes, rather pedantic) combined citation might be: "The Acts of 1707 in Scotland and 1706 in England of the Anglo-Scottish Union of 1707".

The point being that the new year was January 1st in Scotland from 1600, but in England remained March 25th until 1752. During that interval (in both senses at once) you had to watch out for the difference. And, if you go poking about in old documents, you still do.

Pretty sure you are correct - although in 1979 there were 49 pubs within the borough boundary....  ;)

Further west, New Year is still celebrated according to the Julian calendar in the Gwaun Valley in Pembrokeshire: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-south-west-wales-16487089

It's a lovely place, especially the Dyffryn Arms (aka Bessie's) which is a miraculous survival of an old-style pub. We discovered it while cycling through on NCN 81: it's sadly a bit far to pop out for a pint from Charlbury, but a sketch of Bessie's by a local artist hangs in our living room now!

This place? http://www.thedyffrynarms.com
Don't know it, but for "old-style pub" the oldest I've found was this:
https://whatpub.com/pubs/BAT/405/seymour-arms-witham-friary
The "glass paneled hatch in the central hallway" makes it look more like a very old-fashioned shop than a pub when you walk in. Could possibly be a film set from Withnail and I...

No - that's a different one. Bessie's definitely doesn't have a website! A brief writeup I found: https://thegrillandbarrel.wordpress.com/2013/12/23/the-dyffryn-arms-a-pub-from-another-time/


Ah yes - went there on a Sustrans volunteer weekend a few years ago. I vaguely remember the wonderful cider. (Good cider is usually only vaguely remembered.)

Glad about that, cos I was looking at the other Dyffryn Arms and thinking it looked like any other country pub!