Great Western Coffee Shop

...staying.

Found at Laira: http://www.rollingstock.fotopic.net/p48515280.html

FGW are also rumoured to be leasing some more and for sets without buffets there will be alternate arrangement for a while.

Well good news, but I'm a bit puzzled as to how NXEC have buffets to release?

I thought they there were a number of MkIII buffet cars sitting around disused?   Surely if FGW want them, they could investigate these being used??

I expect there are quite a few ex Virgin West Coast MkIII Buffet Cars laying around, however there are some major tasks to undertake to make Loco hauled stock suitable for HSTs, like a full rewire to start.

HSTs are 3Phase 400 volt elctric systems
Loco Hauled single phase 800v Ac/1000v Dc electric systems.

So the [possibility exists, just at a high price! 

It does and many other operators are doing it.

I suspect we'll be seeing Marcroft having a bit more work then!

Why is there a shortage of Buffet cars anyway???  Didn't every HST train-set have a buffet car when new??  Im presuming not? 

Which routes never had buffet cars hwen the HSTs were new?

A few have been written off in crashes and have a feeling some were converted into TFs and are with FGW

Would this mean First have seen the light (the obvious one) and decided to refurb all of the buffets?

As noted previously on this site, the trolley trial has been suspended, but this is only until they find an alternative that is safe for passengers and staff.

What exactly caused the suspension of the trolley service??    What are those staff doing now?!

They are off their trolleys.

I've heard from a reliable source that they are to use a static trolley for now.

How did an accident occur anyway?  Why dont other TOCs have issues running a trolley service? 

The only accident I ever witnessed was at Salisbury, when a train from Basingstoke that I was on (ex Waterloo I think) pulled into the bay platform, where it terminated. Whilst the trolley-dolly was extricating the trolley from the doors, it toppled over and fell on the platform spilling the contents everywhere. Being a gentleman I stopped and helped, at least until some train staff came over and cleared up. Nobody was hurt, but pride was probably dented.

Will the trolley "bays" be converted into toilets again? :(

Or more seats?  :)

Glad to hear buffets are scrapped. When Connex had SET, all I remember was being hit in the leg by the sodding trolley as the train bounced it from side to side.

It never looks as good on a trolley either - presentation is often key to a sale - I would have thought a trolley service reduced revenue.

Man - I'm always harping on about SET - just using it as a base for comparison - nothing else, honest!  :)

To an extent yeah, but equally some people won't bother walking to the buffet car, especially if it it 6 cars down the train.  Having a cup of tea brought past you though does tempt some people.

Something has gone badly wrong this week with un-buffet diagramms as a set without a buffet formed the 07:43 Penzance-London Paddington today.

Thanks, d-m!  I'm just a little puzzled, though: isn't a 'static trolley' rather like a 'buffet counter'?

Why not just stick with the existing (and popular!) buffet cars until such time as 'crowding' is sorted and trolleys have some chance of being wheeled anywhere (other than in ever-decreasing circles)?

 >:(

I certainly didn't see a trolley static or otherwise today. I don't think that they have trolley's down Penzance way.
The only one it would of had was the First Class one. Even if there was one you wouldn't have known about it on the train I was on thanks to nearly silent anouncments.

... which tends to bear me out, qprrule?  Why don't FGW leave the existing configuration as it is, with a proper buffet car in its usual place, and stop fooling about with trials of trolleys - that clearly won't work on crowded trains???

 >:( Grrrr!  (Sorry!)

It si especially stupid as it was a Penzance-London service via Bristol, the longest operated by a HST and least suitable to not have a trolley and in breach of there franchise agreemnent I beleive, Lee could you help on this one?

Catering is not in the franchise spec at all I believe? the standard class trolleys are stored on board the set in the old toilet space either in coach A or H, that little room has a water boiler etc in it.

No, it was agreed that Trolley's could only be used on services under 200 miles. Penzance-Paddington via Bristol is not under 200 miles.

I think it's more of a local agreement rather than franchise spec, TBH not many people use that particular service from Cornwall to London because if you get the train an hour later (0845 from pnz) then you get into London only 5 minutes later! that train is only really busy between Pnz and Tru.

I bet they do a roaring trade in coffee and bacon rolls, at that time of day, then!   ;D

If the buffet staff are on! They quite often aren't until Plymouth anyway.
It wasn't even busy between Penzance and Truro, it picked up a couple at St.Germans and Saltash but there was only about 20 of us in our carriage.

It's a long Journey to London from West Cornwall on the 07.43 PZ-Padd, and if you have a Cheap Ticket, Only valid on that train in that seat, you can't spend the money you saved (well some of it) in the Buffet

.

I have a mis-giving about the Drinking Water on coaches A and H, I've haven't seen these Water Tanks being filled with water from Bowsers as opposed to hosepipes.
The Water tank in Buffet Car gets special treatment (as do the water bowsers) at least Monthly to Sterilise the Tank and prevent the build up of some nasty water born bugs, and IIRC the Buffet Cars pass the water before use through a UV light that kills micro-bugs.

Do coaches A and H get the same treatment?

I am sure our 'Devonian' would be the first to complain there was no Buffet when the train run over 59 mins late...........asking for the free drinks and food  ;D

No buffet car on the 0743 Penzance was as a direct result of the chaos caused by the latest fatality at Southall on Monday. It was inevitable this would happen, I'm just suprised it has taken this long for it to. Still, Senior management know best, and think of all those valuable minutes saved in the journey to and from Penzance with the superior acceleration of the HST in this formation  ::)

Is this in reference to me? Didn't even know that rule existed - thanks for the info

 If it was over 59 minutes late though I would have moved onto the wine  ;)

Because they temporarily do not have enough buffets for the number of sets...

I know that the buffet cars water supply is filtered before it reaches your cup, would obviously presume a similar system in A and H.

Since when? They had the right number before refurbishment ... so why not now? (And before you say refurbishment - they had the opportunity to refurbish them, and the additional sets that FGW bought came with buffet cars according to my archives.).

Such a thing called maintenance, although I guess you lot over at SWT wouldn't know what that is as computers deal with things for you ;)

Buffets are in the maintenance cycle at the same time as the rest of a full set of stock - if a buffet is out of service that means the entire set is. So if there's a shortage of buffets, there is a shortage of HST rolling stock sets as well?!

I'll try and find the figured regarding sets/buffet

I presume there will be a number of buffets available from the EMT Mainline HSTs services???

Not until the Summer at the earliest - but I suspect FGW won't need any at all, but if they do, just 1 or 2.

On the 0743???  :o

 ;D

When I were younger, in the 1970s, HSTs had Buffet cars AND restaurant cars. As I recall 2 + 9 was the original formation - 2 firsts, 1 buffet, 1 restaurant and 5 second class.

I think we are short of 1 buffet as the MML set has no buffet car? well, it has an FGW one.

Thanks, vacman!

I must say, reading this thread, it all seems very confused?  Does anyone have any clear information on what is, or is not, available on HSTs generally, for example, at the moment?

I've looked on the FGW website, but they've still just got their 'marketing blurb' about how great their buffet cars are - no mention of buffet cars being withdrawn / replaced with a trolly? See http://www.firstgreatwestern.co.uk/Content.aspx?id=66 .

I'm also surprised that if the decision has been made to keep all the buffet cars that this wasn't added on to the "^29m announcement".

Today, we had a "brassiere" as well as a buffet ( at least, I think that's what they said) on the 8:25 from Chippenham to Paddington.

Undecided whether to order a bacon buttie or a bacon, egg, sausage and mushroom baguette, I decided to try and save three quid by splitting the difference and ordering a bacon and mushroom buttie. This however wasn't listed on the menu. I could have one or the other. The fact that the latter actually involved mushrooms, and therefore presumably they had some in stock, was neither here nor there: I wasn't allowed to deviate from the strict confines of the items listed on the menu.

The original Western Region fleet in 1976 was a 2+7 formation - many of the stop markers survive at short platform stations to this day, with 2+8 added later beyond them. The sets had 2 firsts, 1 buffet-second or buffet-restaurant and 4 seconds. They got an extra second class coach in the 1980s.

The initial Eastern and Scottish Region sets were delivered as 2+8, with 2 firsts, a restaurant-kitchen, 4 second opens and a buffet-second, but it was very soon realised this was overkill in terms of catering provision (and probably a staffing nightmare too) and the restaurant-kitchens were given buffet counters, with an extra second class coach provided in place of the buffet-seconds, which were used instead in newly-built sets for cross-country services, which always ran as 2+7 sets, of one first, one buffet-second and 5 second class.

Regular 2+9 operation only began in recent years when GNER extended its HSTs with an extra second class coach.

Thanks for this summary willc. I had often wondered what had happened to the extra buffet-seconds that used to run on the East Coast.

Not if today's news on another forum is to be believed - that EMT told their staff today that the buffets are staying (though bizarrely will be used to provide at seat service for 1st, and to provide trolley support for standard, with no counter service - doh!)

Thanks Willc for that summary! :)