Great Western Coffee Shop

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Illustration in the waiting room

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Pewsey is a big success story by the looks of things - a station that had just 2 or 3 trains each way daily a few years back and now has services every couple of hours. Busy too yesterday - looks well justified.   And, I notice, largely long distance traffic too so probably a good little revenue earner!

Was the train on time  :P

Five minutes or so late at Pewsey on the way up, but an ontime arrival in Paddington - so that's "on time" by the book.   Smooth ride but seriously overcrowded with 'em standing in the aisles (and sitting on the floor in all the doorways) already when it got to Pewsey, so you can image wat it was like with another 30 or 40.  I was wondering just how overcrowded that service used to be when it was a 180, but I've checked and see it was ex Penzance, so it was probably always a 125.

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Now to be fair, we were standing on a tube today too:

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/f8yc1.jpg)

but at least that's for a lot shorter time and the design is intended to make standing comfortable - very awkward with the narrow gangways on a 125, with people trapsing up and down to the buffet.

Oh - for anyone who's not been to Pewsey, it's a small town with a population of around 5000 - but the station is the only one for miles and so it attracts a carpark full of drivers.   The service runs about every 2 hours to / from London (one way), with westward train serving a variety of terminal destinations such as Frome, Exeter and Penzance.

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Pewsey is a very useful rail head for those who have a car ...

For three of us on a Group Save 3, no railcards, the tickets we bought on the day cost us 19.15 each return to Paddington. The greener alternative that we wished to use - going from our local station - would have cost over 100 pounds each return (there are no cheap return tickets / savers available as there are no trains after the 07:17).  Sorry - but there are times I have to put the cost to myself ahead of travelling the expensive route!

"Last week, (4th March 2016) Claire Perry, MP for Devizes and Under-Secretary of State for Transport, formally declared Pewsey Station^s very own custom-made new footbridge open.

If you thought that the old footbridge that linked the up and down line platforms at Pewsey was designed and built for that station you would be wrong.

Its predecessor had been in use at Pewsey Station since 1969  - but it was not new then - purchased as a secondhand structure brought from Cookham Station in Berkshire after seeing many years service there.

The old bridge was ^looking very shabby^ was not safe in icy conditions - despite the best attentions of station manager Trevor Bevan MBE.

The replacement is great improvement on the original structure, much wider with good non-slip steps and walkway, and lighting so that you can see where you are about to place your foot on a dark night.   

This new one cost ^465,000 - paid for by Network Rail.  It even has a built in rainwater drainage system.

Work began in July last year and was supposed to be finished by the end of October ^well before the worst of the winter weather^ - said Mrs Perry when she visited the station in July 2015.  With the icy blast whipping across the open station area this afternoon it felt that she may well be right."

http://www.marlboroughnewsonline.co.uk/news/all-the-news/5320-pewsey-station-gets-its-own-footbridge-for-the-very-first-time

I think the thread title is a bit misleading as Pewsey had a footbridge before 1969 ::)
http://www.steampicturelibrary.com/pewsey-station-c1910/print/675026.html

A train driver overshot a station by nearly a quarter of a mile after allegedly forgetting to stop, forcing passengers to take a 22-mile detour.

The Great Western Rail (GWR) train is believed to have had hundreds of commuters on board when it failed to stop at Pewsey, Wiltshire.

The driver was forced to continue to Westbury, the next station, which is more than 20 miles away, with commuters told the train could not reverse back to the platform.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2016/10/20/train-overshoots-station-after-driver-forgets-to-stop-sending-pa/

Purely in the interests of accuracy, this incident occurred on Friday 14 October 2016.

Indeed it was. I am rather surprised no-one has mentioned it on here up till now.

In the 80's I was on a train between Portsmouth and Southampton which overshot a station and the driver simply reversed back to the platform!

I was on a metropolitan line train on the Uxbridge branch a couple of years ago which overshot a station by over half a train length. Similarly it carried on to the next stop, albeit very slowly. I believe it is a relatively common occurrence when the driver is faced with clear signals and simply forgets to stop or misses his/her braking points - obviously ATP of whatever flavour should prevent anything dangerous happening. Somewhat more inconvenient to be over carried on the national network where the next station could be 30-40 minutes or so further down the line in some cases!

The distance between Pewsey and Westbury must also be one of the largest between 2 stations in the GWR network?

Pewsey – Westbury is 20.25 miles.  Didcot – Swindon is 23 miles and Swindon – Bristol Parkway (probably the longest gap) is 34.5 miles.

What's the Castle Cary to Taunton distance?

27.5 miles

Thanks guys - how little I know! (surprised Didcot to Swindon is that far).

Still, it's a long way to take the pax past the stop they hoped to get off at :-(

would the new driver's advisory system (or whatever it is called) not remind a driver that s/he needs to stop??

It tells you the next stop, but doesn't alert you to the next stop by making a noise or anything.  Something which would be pretty easy to do and would cut down the number of fail to calls and station overruns at a stroke.

According to a number of tweets on Twitter, on Monday evening (5th Dec) a GWR train failed to stop at Pewsey AGAIN!

This time it was the 1C91 1733 Paddington to Paignton service.

RTT confirms it: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/C41508/2016/12/05/advanced
What is the implication for drivers? Are they given a reprimand if they forget to stop?

The newspaper article manages to contradict itself.

If, as stated in the third paragraph, the distance between Pewsey and Westbury is more than 20 miles (its is actually 20 miles and 22 chains) then the detour quoted in the first paragraph must be 40 miles and not 22!

It counts as an operational incident and unless it's not their fault (i.e not due to leaf fall, or a diagram error) they will go on a CDP (Competence Development Plan) which involves extra monitoring of them for a defined period.  Should they have a similar incident again within 5 years (also includes other things such as a fail to call, door release on the wrong side etc.), then a longer and more detailed plan would be started and three or more within 5 years and you start getting into safety review meetings and possible removal from driving.

Thanks II!

In some circumstances I have heard it can be regarded as a criminal matter, and the consequences can be serious - Go to Jail, do not pass Pewsey, do not collect £200.

A fail to call is very unlikely, in isolation, to be a criminal matter.

Combined with a SPAD, leading to collision, derailment or injury, or other serious safety incident, then more likely for a driver to have his or her collar felt.

............I wasn't being entirely serious, it wasn't an attempt to monopolise the discussion  ;)

Just visiting this thread again. I figured there was a chance you were being light hearted.  :P

I'm hearing that the driver of the second incident didn't even brake....sailed straight through

There's two classifications for not stopping at a booked station.  A 'station overrun', where a braking attempt has been made, and a 'fail to call' where no braking attempt was made.  The numbers of instances of each type are pretty similar to each other.  A 'fail to call' or 'station overrun' could be caused by similar reasons such as the driver forgetting he was supposed to stop at that station, but a 'station overrun' could also be due to slippery conditions and a 'fail to call' due to an error on the printed diagram the driver works to.  Both are treated in exactly the same way in terms of seriousness.

So, in the case of approaching Pewsey at speed, it might be that upon sighting it the driver realises they're supposed to call (cue an expletive) and applies the emergency brake but not quite in time.  Or it might be that as he/she passes the station he/she realises they were supposed to call, but it's far too late so there's no point in trying to stop.

And the instructions for a Fail to call? Presumably to stop at the next station, whetgher or not scheduled to call?

Most likely to stop at the next station, yes, but it can depend on the location and the train in question, and also when (as the driver) you've realised your error.  For example, if you were on a HST heading to London and missed Castle Cary then it would usually be best to continue to Westbury rather than stop at Bruton.  Basically you would report it and follow the instructions of Control and/or the Signaller.

Would the driver expect to be relieved from duty as per with a SPAD? I would imagine the realisation of forgetting to stop somewhere or overshooting in slippery conditions could have quite an adverse effect on your concentration and/or general stress levels.

It depends on the circumstances.  A driver with a clean record not on a development plan doing a minor overshoot at a small station where part of the train is still platformed might be deemed OK to continue until the end of the shift.  Anyone with 'previous' would probably be relieved of their duties.  Also, the driver themselves would be free to deem themselves unfit to continue.

From Deadline News (http://www.deadlinenews.co.uk/2016/12/20/scotrail-reach-new-low-driver-forgets-stop-station/):


Croy's another one of those stations where some services are booked to call and others on the same route and driven from the same pool aren't ...

And if the pattern was fast from Castle Cary to Reading, what then? Bruton, Pewsey, Newbury or Reading? Or would he stop somewhere between Bruton and Fairwood, and ask to be put in to Westbury? I guess in practice that Cary would have alerted Control who make the decision for him.

In that case I would imagine a special stop at Westbury would probably be arranged.

Apparently a XC Voyager was caught on Dawlish Beach cam overshooting Dawlish today. After a few minutes the train reversed back into Dawlish. I'm guessing this is the one: http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P30969/2016/12/22/advanced
Video here: https://www.facebook.com/dawlishbeach/

And now Hayes and Harlington in Get West London (http://www.getwestlondon.co.uk/news/west-london-news/baffled-commuters-angered-train-driver-13401327)

I know open data sources aren't always correct, but usually when a train misses a stop it will just show the departure time with n/a for the arrival time, however on this occasion (http://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/P04621/2017/07/27/advanced), it suggests it did stop at Hayes.

That's just one of many ways a fail to call could present itself, although it'll be 'n/r' meaning No report. On this occasion it is more than likely the train was running under cautionary aspects and therefore because of the way arrival and departure times are reported it could easily look like the train stopped as normal.

If the passenger was already on the train how does he or she know that people waiting to get on were "so angry"? Were they able to establish that by looking at the expressions on their faces in the fractions of a second as the train went past?

Unless the driver managed to stop the train with part of the train still on the platform.

No doubt CCTV will confirm one way or the other, and if it's proven to be the case that he was on the phone we will have one more "driver shortage"!

I expect he was 'on the phone' (actually, probably the GSM-R handset) reporting that he'd had a 'fail to call' to the signaller.  Though, yes, if the incident was caused because he'd been using a mobile phone on the move then the Unions don't want to know and it would be goodbye time.

From a public area of Facebook (so names can be quoted without invading privacy).

John Thorpe


Actually I'm a bit flattered that the author feels we have a responsibility for his service too  ;D

TransWilts (my response)


Discussion invited from members ... and I'm going to message John to make him aware of potential ongoing positive discussion and invite him to join in.   Would love to help Pewsey; good bus engagement there but have found rail engagement difficult.

Hopefully the timetable recast will make further improvements on what is already a vastly improved service over what it in the fairly recent times as you allude to, Graham.

I would like to see many of the the Bedwyn stoppers extended to Westbury as can be seen from my very first post on this forum getting on for ten years ago!  With the turnback loop at Bedwyn being extended that might be an opportunity missed though.

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?action=post;topic=18896.0;num_replies=0

I'm sure I saw a previous discussion somewhere on here that that isn't needed, as it can accommodate a 5 car unit in it's current form?

I can understand why some users of Pewsey station, situated as it is right in the middle of Wiltshire, might be under the impression that their station is within the scope of TransWilts CRP - to the uninitiated it might not be obvious that the nomenclature of "TransWilts" does not include the east-west line of route from Bedwyn to Westbury ;) As it happens, although there is no user group, there certainly used to be some influential individual users/lobbyists, but I am not sure what the situation is now.

As for Pewsey itself, I have had interesting conversations with Trevor in the ticket office (who has worked there since the 1960s) who confirms that the main line train service and passenger numbers have grown massively in the last 30 years or so. Even before the car park was extended some years ago, it had become a very popular railhead enabling long-distance commuting for the areas of Marlborough and Devizes. I know a number of other Berks and Hants commuters from the same towns who still prefer to railhead to Bedwyn and Hungerford (even Andover) because the peak fares are cheaper and the service is more frequent. I agree that a more even off-peak service pattern would be desirable, and this appears to be an objective in the future timetable aspirations. I am not sure whether a business case could be made for a significant further overall increase in service provision.

One further thought. The off-peak service at Pewsey, whilst a bit patchy, has some very attractive journey times, being served as it is by calls in long-distance services between London and Plymouth/Cornwall. The same applies to Westbury. It is possible that journey times in both directions will be extended if, in the future, these stations are served only by a Berks and Hants "stopper".

Definitely not, only three car Turbo length at the moment, not 5-car IET.  Means modifications to a foot crossing, but otherwise a fairly simple job.

Well, Mr Chris Irwin still travels from there, and I believe he's an ex-head of TWSW.....

The designated service and the line of running - what the CRP "looks after" is indeed Swindon to Westbury with some onward journeys to Salisbury. Ironically, if you draw a line direct from Swindon to Salisbury (1 and 2 on the map) you go through Pewsey (3 on the map).

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/wherepew.jpg)

Our umbrella company - TransWilts CIC - is constituted to cover journeys "to from and within" Wiltshire, so at this outer level we do have an interest and concerns for passengers at other stations - Bradford-on-Avon, Avoncliff, Dean, Bedwyn, Tisbury, and (yes) Pewsey. Economic borders aren't as sharply defined as local government ones, and we have an eye open for Frome too.   

Ironically bearing in mind the original message that I responded to on Facebook, the station we "worry" about the most in this outer level is Pewsey.   There are six stations on the West of England main line between the Wiltshire border and Taunton, and you would be hard pressed to find a more diverse bunch!   Four have Community Rail services with one even having two, which look out for connections as well as their own services. Of the remaining two, one has a very effective and well established user group and community ... and then there's Pewsey ...

Indeed, I've been across there (walking the bike) and the footpath is pretty-much right behind the buffers of the turnback siding. It still looks long enough for something more than 3 coaches to me, but I'm not the expert ;-)

Remember that IET coaches are longer too
3 x 23 = 69 metres
5 x 26 = 130 metres
and there will be a certain clearance need off the main line too with other trains whistling by at speed.  This in not the old Holborn Viaduct where at 8 car EPB in platform 1 had to be virtually touching the buffers to clear the points into platform 4. Intermediate platforms 2 and 3 had been eliminated as "too short" - originating from the days that inbound London trains divide at Herne Hill with portions for the City and the West End.

http://johnlaw.railfan.net/jlphoto.cgi?hv83.jpg

http://www.disused-stations.org.uk/h/holborn_viaduct/index8.shtml

I looked at the Sectional, and it doesn't say how long the siding is.

By sight, I'd say it's at least 100m, so hopefully not too much work needed. A 3 coach Turbo looks to fit on it with quite a bit of room to spare.

On Google Earth, it's clearly long enough - about 140m. But that would mean diesel trains standing, and starting up, right behind houses. If it's considered usable only by 70 m trains it must be to avoid that. In which case it has to have 45 m added at the buffer end, even if railway land is there to make it even longer at the switch end.

Yes, the siding itself right up to the buffers from the Ground Position Signal is about 135m, but of course there is standage required from the buffers and to be 'in clear' and have a decent view of that Ground Position Signal also reduces that 135m, so I would hazard a guess the maximum usable length is 120m at the absolute maximum.  Currently no walking route, hence the 3-car Turbo maximum, though to correct what I said previously a 4-car would fit and perhaps even a 5-car Turbo might just squeeze in.  Definitely not long enough for a 5-car IET.   :D

I would imagine when it is lengthened it will be brought up to more modern standards (at great cost of course!), possibly with an elevated GPS (to provide a better view to the driver), TPWS grids, and better buffer stop protection.

When I passed on an HST earlier this week here appeared to a group of workers clearing trees near the end of the current turnback.

Saw this on Facebook:


Edited to add to diary - grahame

Notice / Flyer at http://atrebatia.info/pewseyusers.pdf . 19:00, Bouverie Hall, Pewsey, Friday 6th April 2018.

Agenda topics:
* What's happening to Pewsey's train services this month? This year?
* How did rail replacement work in March, and how will it work in other weeks?
* What's happening to Pewsey's train services next year? Next Decade?
* How do the wishes / needs of the Pewsey community get taken into account?

Testing image addition

From this morning ... finding out from Pewsey commuters how the last set of bustitution went, promoting the meeting for Friday evening, and chatting with a former Rail Minister as she waited for a train. I have here apologies for being prior-engaged, but her blessing and support, for Friday.

(http://www.wellho.net/pix/pew_20180403.jpg)

Agenda ...

19:00 Intro, welcome, agenda for the evening - Graham; intros
19:10 Who are TransWilts - Paul Johnson
19:25 Who's who at GWR and 2018 projects and possessions - Rob Thomas
19:40 What about a user group?  The options - Graham Ellis with room discussion
20:00 vote / decisions on how we go forward
20:15 Open forum / panel / wider questions (e.g. 2019 timetables, fares)

Not too late to come and join us...

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Good luck with the project.

A big "Thank You" to everyone who came along to what may turn out to have been the inaugural meeting of Pewsey Vale Rail Users Group.  We expected a dozen, hoped for a couple of dozen ... but there must have been somewhere between 40 and 50 people in the hall.  And really concerned and interested people with a very wide range of issues, questions, agendas, thoughts. The $64,000 question - "do we want some form of local user group" got an emphatic "yes", and TransWilts (who seeded this inaugural meeting, fertilised with much local help) are sponsoring / helping with the next steps.  Far too much to do in one meeting ... far too many questions, and people need to think on what they heard.  So - first thing - date of next meeting, please put 11th May 2018 at 19:00 in your diary.  Bouverie Hall booked, and all welcome.

What did I come away with?   A feeling of real engaging interest, some anger, worry, upset, frustration. But also a feeling of "lets move this forward" and an appreciation that at times there are no easy / perfect solutions for everyone, and a desire to work positively and (for the most part!) pragmatically forward.

Issues / elements split - in my thoughts - into five elements that we talked about:
1. Immediate individual customer issues
2. Short term systemic issues
3. Setting up the user groups and mechanisms forward
4. Learning more about how all this stuff fits together to be effective in requests and realistic in aspirations
5. Medium and longer term directions and goals

Looking further ...

1. Immediate individual customer issues
These need to be dealt with as they occur by GWR staff, answered at stations or referred through GWR customer services for the most part. Twitter and Facebook to @GWRHelp are also very useeful and quick to respond. Exceptionally, a Rail User Group or CRP when well established will have informal links to help (re)make a failed connection.

2. Short term systemic issues
"Little things that can make a big difference". At present especially relevant to engineering disruption for 2018 - a couple of things in bus patterns especially from Pewsey to Newbury, and information flows ans sources. Key follow up from last night - Rob Thomas; also follow up via myself (Graham Ellis). But note - do not expect short term miracles. Much is set in stone ans the engineeirng closures, etc "must" be done as planned otherwise there is massive negative knock on.  Explanations, yes; changes - just the odd one where it's easy to do and won't bring in new problems / issues

3. Setting up the user groups and mechanisms forward
4. Learning more about how all this stuff fits together to be effective in requests and realistic in aspirations
These two are for 11th May - and I have some work to do to prepare.  There is a great deal of precedent, good practise and information out there - it needs to be filtered and tuned for Pewsey.  As a starter, there's an old description of who's who in rai organisations at http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=5343.0 ...

5. Medium and longer term directions and goals
This is where a user group can be really effective. Having had a short term / immediate engineering issues representative of GWR at yesterday's meeting, we asked for a medium / longer term person next time so that we can address those issues too. The rail industry isn't totally uninformed about what's needed / wanted for Pewsey and the rest of the line - so there's already some oil on the wheels.   For the "medium term" - looking at timetables for 2019, for example - I  (Graham Ellis) take the TransWilts lead.  For the longer term strategy, it's Paul Johnson. That's as we help seed and grow whatever it is the Pewsey group wants to set up; as things progress theough the next months, our involvement / help is there as needed, but needs to some extent to be faded (or financed) as a Pewsey and / or line specific group / CRP evolves.

As on 7th April ... please let me know ( via grahamellis @ transwilts.org ) matters / questions for GWR on 11th May, or indeed any short term elements not brought up yesterday.  If those matters are with me by 14th April, it gives me a good chance to correlate the questions and feed them through our GWR, Wiltshire Council or own paths.

Finally - big "Thank You" to Rob, Paul, Bob and Horace, Steve and Bill for coming along to the meeting and all their help in seeding the group from outside their home station areas.  To Dawn and Colin, John and Richard, Susie, Trevor and Dan for their help within the Vale.   And to everyone who came along on Friday evening, or who emailed in ahead of time to pass in comments or questions.

Documents / presentations from last night:

http://atrebatia.info/pewseyusers.pdf - poster advertising event
http://atrebatia.info/pewsey_overview_20180406.pdf - evenng program and link slides (Graham)
http://atrebatia.info/pewsey_keynote_20180406.pdf - Keynote / CRP / TransWilts / Pewsey Vale (Paul)
http://atrebatia.info/pewsey_initial_20180406.pdf - Initial comments on questions mailed in (Graham)

A note to new readers of the Coffee Shop ... I tend to have too much to do and too little time, so for logs like this I concentrate on getting the data out to an understandable level rather than totally grammatically correct - please overlook any typos and consider the content.   For official documents, I do proof read and tune ... but I need to get on to 2019 timetable issues now ...

The following email sent to all who attended the meeting and asked for an update, or who wrote in advance and asked to b told how it went

---

Dear Pewsey Rail Users,

Many thanks for coming along to the Bouverie Hall in Pewsey on Friday night for the Railway Meeting organised by TransWilts. This was the inaugural meeting of what may turn out to be a "Pewsey Vale Rail Users Group". 

It was heartening to see so many people on a Friday evening - and the number of people attending and the passion with which many of you spoke suggests that a co-ordinated rail user group would be viable, and of some benefit.  That's not only benefit to you in the community, but also benefit to the people who specify and run your services, as it will give them co-ordinated feedback to understand what the issues are for users of Pewsey station, and how their product can be improved in the future.

I have written up a summary of the evening and posted it at
   http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=19536.msg235031#msg235031
   (horrid long URL - short link at http://twcrp.info/t19536 to the thread!)
and linked to it from Facebook at
   https://www.facebook.com/TransWilts/posts/1355292154570823
The main post also includes links to the presentations and to answers provided on the evening to early questions.  I have also sent our thanks to GWR and Wiltshire Council for their positive support, and to the Bedwyn and other Pewsey groups helping too. And I have booked the hall for next time too!

Issues / elements split - in my thoughts - into five elements that we talked about:
1. Immediate individual customer issues
2. Short term systemic issues
3. Setting up the user groups and mechanisms forward
4. Learning more about how all this stuff fits together to be effective in requests and realistic in aspirations
5. Medium and longer term directions and goals

Far, FAR too much to talk about in a single meeting, and lots to go away and think on.
* Please make a diary note for 11th May 2018 - same time (19:00), same place (Bouverie Hall).
* Please let me know of any short term questions during this coming week so we can look for answers

Really good to have the local support from PCAP and other groups in the community; with their local background, with our community rail experience, with a train operator who's listening, and with other station groups more than happy to work 'with' on the same network of services, the stage is set for effective community rail work at Pewsey for the benefit of all.   Ultimate objective issues might include better buses to Newbury during engineering, better average journey times to London, filling the massive timetable gaps.  Providing useful connections (commuter and other) at Westbury, etc. And although I say "ultimate" objectives, there may be a few quick wins too; we can (and have) asked. But really the longer term needs to be thought about too - rail planning is done years ahead, and you need to be in now to avoid being in a "you're too late in asking" in the future.

I will update the online sites / threads above during the next month, and send at agenda for 11th May a few days ahead. At this stage, its still the weekend and no-one's even been back in their office yet to start working on too much ... yet I have had numerous inputs and encouragements which tell me that this is going to work for the mutual benefit of all!

Again - thank you for your support and coming on Friday. See you on 11th May!

Graham

Graham Ellis - grahamellis@transwilts.org
Community Rail Officer, TransWilts Community Rail Partnership
A division of the TransWilts Community Interest Company (CIC)
http://www.transwilts.org - 0845 459 0153 / 01225 708225

This email is bcc’d to all attendees who signed in to request updates and also (manual copy) to the gentlemen to whom I promised an update from the meeting in previous emails. Recipients are welcome to share the contents and encourage others to come along in May, and / or to get in touch in the meantime.

Glad it got off to a good start.  I was away this weekend or otherwise I may have shown my face

Since when did MTR have anything to do with Great Western Railway? 

Reading back the original post, it states "Great Western Railway and MTR" - not suggesting to me that one is part of the other in any way.    First / MTR (in the form of SWR) already operate train services on part of the GWR main line from London to the West Country via Pewsey - from Castle Cary to Westbury, just one station away - and it is logical for a rail user group to have a view to its region when looking ahead - especially at services close by on its own line.

But Pewsey isn't served by South Western Railway ???   Great Western Railway serve the station, but that is 100% First Group, so why MTR is in that post I have no idea.

See above

For Friday ... brief agenda as just posted

Pewsey Vale Rail User Group - 2nd meeting, 11th May 2018 (Friday) - 7 p.m. formal start at the Bouverie hall but we'll be there early so come on in - all welcome. Following requests at the inaugural meeting, GWR will be represented at a very senior level by Jane Jones, their Head of Public Affairs. Jane is well versed in GWR issues, and will also be briefed on Pewsey specific issues. She has the questions from last time, will have time for more questions, and has promised to take away questions she cannot answer right off. She does need to catch the 19:45 to Plymouth to get there by the end of train service.

After Jane has been with us, the TransWilts team will look forward at other developments since last time, including the formal setting up of the independent group; I have the Chippenham RUG constitution as a base. And we will also look at the co-ordination with other groups on the line. Noting for June - GWR have their Community Rail annual conference on 15th June in Swindon, and we have already got 2 or 3 attending, with ability to add one or two more. It's an excellent chance to meet other passengers and groups - helps passengrs and helps GWR in co-ordinating provision to an greed direction rather than having to grapple with disparate requests that need not be disparate.

Please come along - whether you are currently a rail user at Pewsey Station or not!

Very, very useful evening on Friday - posting here to get the widest audience.  In a nutshell, everything coming together ... with community looking at the opportunity of positive rail provider engagement into the future, and the TOC happy to have a group they can liaise with in Pewsey.   From a TransWilts viewpoint, great to have an autonomous and linked group in Pewsey.    Big thanks to Jane Jones from GWR for her support, including (but far from limited to) spending all of Friday evening in Pewsey.

Following text is my email to attendees - but very shareable.   If anyone wants a set of the enclosures or a contact to be able to get involved themselves, please let me know!

---

I am writing to follow up on Friday evening's meeting of what's becoming the Pewsey Vale Rail User Group.  Please forgive me in sending this as a general email (via bcc) to everyone who's signed in for either the 6th April or 11th May meetings, or has asked me to keep them in the picture.

HEADLINE - Please email Dawn Wilson ( [ask me - not posting for spam harvester!] and/or "reply all" to this email ) if you would be willing to be involved with helping the group / would like to keep informed.  Prior experience and knowledge of such things NOT needed - things are really falling into place with local community support, local council support and rail system contact / support.  All sorts of things can be done - you do NOT need much time either, though could get deeply involved if you wish. This is an excellent opportunity for passengers, rail industry and community to come together in partnership for their mutual benefit.

DETAIL - from last Friday

Thank you to Dawn, Colin, John and Bill (from within the Pewsey Community Area) and to Jane, Bob and Horace (GWR, TransWilts and Wiltshire Council) for their help in setting up, speaking to, running the meeting and the arrangements that go with it. Attached are copies of the GWR presentation, my (Graham, for TransWilts) presentation, and an example user group constitution (from Chippenham).  Sorry (but really I am delighted!) that we ran out of printed copies on the night.   THANK YOU to everyone who came along or who has expressed an interest.

Jane Jones from GWR spoke on the overall GWR plans, and on Pewsey Vale and Berks and Hants (that's the line's name) specifics - in terms of services, engineering disruptions, and station access.  She also spoke of the usefulness to everyone of community groups - rail user groups and community rail partnerships - and offered seed funding to help the group set up. I suggested that the group apply for a Pewsey Carniva fund grant, and have been assured that you're already ahead of me on this one - "done". Jane took several specific questions away with her, and left several of you with her contact details such that you / she can follow up.

Resolved - to set up the Pewsey Vale Rail User Group under the auspices of the Pewsey Vale Community Area Partnership who already have the infrastructure for such community groups - banking, insurance, data registration etc.  With affiliation to TransWilts for continuinty of rail / public transport links.   With Pewsey Parish Council offering accommodation for committee and similar meetings.

Some agenda items / issues I noted - many of which there is already some visibility of.  And THANK YOU to Colin for putting in a Pewsey response already to the GWR consultation that closed a couple of months back.

*** Shorter term ...
May timetable change
Rovers from September
More Even and a couple more trains from January 2019
Also faster due to reduced dwells
Some connectional possibilities
Incoming tourism leafets

*** Medium to Longer term ...
Working with other stations on the line for effecive integrated improvement
Better travel options westward (e.g. Bristol commutes)
Earlier and later?
Up to hourly?
Connections overall

*** Also
Connctivity with buses
User group and / or Community Rail options
Community Rail Partnership / what is designation, etc

Many stations / areas have rail user groups - in fact Pewsey has been one of the few stations with very little - so there is a wealth of skill and knowledge out there, much of which can be of use in Pewsey and The Vale. It's very rare indeed for groups to be seen to be competing with each other - the others may be busy but they'll be keen to help the common good too.  TransWilts has a constituiton that talks about public transport "to from and within" Wiltshire, though current funding relates to the North/South access which means we can help - but not as deeply as on "our own line" - and would love to do so.  Westbury is a key hub station, with a wide variety of connection opportunities to allow the railway to provide journeys with linked trains off your immediate line. Pewsey's 101, 102 and 5 bus routes are operated by GoAhead and - in something of a co-incidence - the TransWits team were at the GoAhead Stakeholder's meeting earlier on Friday.

Coming up ... some networking opportunities
15th June - GWR Community Rail Conference, Swindon (3 already booked)
20th June - TransWilts Stakeholder Conference, Trowbridge (details in next few days)
22nd June - TravelWatch SouthWest Cross Country Stakeholder's Consultation (missable for you?)
2nd July - TraveleWatch SouthWest "Travel Planning Day" (details to follow)
6th October - TravelWatch SouthWest General Meeting
Note - TravelWatch SouthWest (TWSW) is a social enterprise company which acts as an advocate for passengers to lobby for the improvement of public transport in the region and works closely with local authorities, business organisations, partnerships and other stakeholder groups. With the dissolution of the former Rail Passengers Committee for Western England in July 2005, TWSW is the representative body for public transport users throughout the South West of England.  I am copying this email to their secretary - Bryony Chetwode.  Lavington Councillor Richard Gamble (who was at the first meeting is a boar member as am I, and the Bedwyn group is also a member, with Bill being a regular at their general meetings).

SUMMARY - Great start, with all the pieces coming together to make for a really effective Rail User Group ...

To encourage and promote rail travel using Pewsey rail station, including regeneration schemes, tourism/leisure and community development projects.
To create a forum to bring together the knowledge and aspirations of the local Pewsey rail user community.
To enable the local community to increase their economic, social and environmental welfare by making use of the railway line.
To develop the railway services stopping at Pewsey and improving service connectivity on a sustained basis for the medium and long-term.
To promote improved accessibility for all train station users. To develop new appropriate uses for the station environ and their buildings that provide new and improved facilities; thus making the station more user-friendly, encouraging use of the train.
To contribute to reducing traffic congestion, and improving road safety and air quality in Pewsey.
To identify potential sources of funding and sponsorship to carry out projects aimed at achieving the above aims and objectives.
To work in partnership with other stakeholders including the local community.

Happy to come along and support you with the rail / transport elements as this goes forward - fantastic and right to be working with the existing community structures!

Graham

Presentations from the 11th May meeting now available for download:

http://atrebatia.info/pv_gwr_jj_20180511.pdf

http://atrebatia.info/pv_tw_ge_20180511.pdf

Probable meeting - 19:00, Bouverie Hall, 5th October 2018
(slight chance it will be one week earlier - will confirm here when I hear)

Confirmed:

On 5th Feb 2019, train 1C89 (1633 Padd to Exeter) was declared a failure and CAPED at Pewsey.

All PAX were turfed off the train and onto the platform which is only partially covered with a short section of canopy and the waiting rooms are closed at that time of day.

Looking at various tweets on twitter, passengers turfed off the train were not best pleased at having to wait around in the cold and rain for over an hour!

It would seem good customer relations to find some way to get the waiting facilities (and presumably toilets) open for the waiting time in these situations. Is there not an emergency local authorised keyholder?

Pewsey is peculiarly distant from other stations and not easily driven to from any of them ... so there could be sense in having a local backup in place. The regular GWR person based there - but for an early rather than a late shift - does a superb job when he's on duty  and I suspect would pop down to the station beyond the call of duty if alerted and available.

There was talk last October of appointing (? volunteer) station ambassadors at unstaffed stations in Wiltshire.  "Soon" was the word, but in railway terms "soon" hasn't progressed yet.

Good job they weren't coming through the Severn Tunnel and dropped off at the first station in England. That's really bleak, and a long wait for the next stopping train!

Presumably the failure was such that the train could be moved but only without passenger. Wouldn't it have ben  sensible to keep the passengers on the train and wait for the rescue train to be a couple of sections away. You May hold up some stone trains  but they would clear in front of the rescue train .

From Spire fm (https://www.spirefm.co.uk/news/local-news/2852923/pewsey-railway-station-wins-funding/)

As a result of the new timetable from 15/12/19 onwards, the current 0810 off-peak train from Pewsey to Paddington has been replaced by an 0817 peak-time train. This means that a return to London around that time increases from £53.60 to £120

The first off-peak train will be a 0930 departure rather than the 0810 at present, i.e. 1hr 20mins later.

I thought the whole idea of the new timetable was to improve things but this will make it much worse for people wanting to travel from Pewsey!  >:(

See http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=22244.0 ... where we suspect that this may not be intentional.   I have also followed up on the Facebook Pewsey Community Page.

Issue of changed train times pushing services from off peak to peak effects other lines too. I will be writing up / raising a couple of Melksham issues via the user Group, and am hopeful that the boundary of the peak will be adjusted rather than massive fare rises on trains that become peak in name, but are off-peak in traffic / nature.

View from Bedwyn / Kintbury / Hungerford on Facebook (https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1702946386503788&set=gm.2736830779737625&type=3&theater&ifg=1)

Very high percentage price increases for some as trains move a few minutes and long-standing concessions are withdrawn.  It may be that the new system is fairer across the board, but as the post says "we have built our lives around these trains and train prices".

Largely irrelevant. If you're driving a commercial vehicle it's your responsibility to know its height.

Think this was for another thread. Do you want me to remove BNM?

Maybe the first two words were more fitting than intended.

Apologies. I did post in wrong thread. As there have been follow ups then it's okay to leave my embarrassment for posterity. :-[

I think they're being a bit melodramatic. Surely it's the case that in any reorganisation on this scale there are always going to be winners and losers?

One could argue that they've benefitted from an extremely generous easement for many years, and these are always subject to potential withdrawal?

Are there slower (but cheaper) trains still available, albeit perhaps involving a change at Reading?

(I do agree with BNM about the commercial vehicles though!)  :)

Taking Pewsey, as I know the case better, as an example

The price increases on the lowest cost walk up tickets for certain journeys at certain times of day have come as a massive shock to people who have used these services with these tickets for many years. For many people, cost-of-travel is a significant part of their budget and changing from a £53.60 fare to a £120.00 fare (say) 40 times a year would / will cost an extra £2,656.00 per annum - up from £2144.00 to £4,800.   Assuming a basic rate (20%) taxpayer, it's an extra £3127.20 gross needed and I'm not going to try to consider National Insurance factors.

However ...

a) The fare until mid December has been a concession and there's an argument that it should not have been so low in the first place; a difficult one as it has been established as a custom for so long.   And no notice (to my knowledge) was given that the custom was to be withdrawn.   Last year, Pewsey lost its rail services for 50 days (bus replacement instead) amongst a great deal of publicity talking about new, better, faster trains.  At no point to I recall seeing any warning that (for some) the new, better, faster trains would also cost them a lot more to use - and people are going to feel aggrieved at been selectively informed last year and having this sprung on them now.

b) If a product you have used suddenly and sharply increases in price, or otherwise becomes unavailable, surely you take a look for an alternative product.  Whilst the headlines we're seeing are looking at the new price of travelingg on what is essentially the same train with the same ticket type, for many users I suspect there are other options so they won't have to spend all that extra:
* A new train an hour later available at the lower price which could even be better for some:
* re-arrange their work to be able to make less journeys
* shift their office time (if they can) a couple of hours later
* Drive to a lower cost station, bearing in mind that Pewsey is a railhead
* Look at booking further ahead with advance tickets
* Buy two singles - up in the peak, back off peak perhaps
Split ticketing, season tickets (which are not going up) etc are further options to look at.

Looking ahead to the new year, the £120 ticket may be rising to £124 giving rise to a further shout of pain.  And looking further ahead to someone sorting out the current mess that is ticketing ... goodness only knows what the effect will be.  But then with Pewsey to London for a day in the peak - £120 and  Bedwyn to London in the peak being 'just' £63.10, future levelling out might reduce the Pewsey fares at the expense of the Bedwyn ones.   We live in interesting times!

This really needs to be addressed. It is absolutely ridiculous that the fare is almost double from Pewsey which is less than 9 miles down the line from Bedwyn.

I think the main cause of this anomaly is that you are able buy an anytime day return from Bedwyn but not from Pewsey, where you have to buy an anytime period return.

Time was that you could justify the huge difference in fare due to Pewsey having IC quality rolling stock compared to DMUs from Bedwyn, but now the rolling stock, in the form of IETs, is of exactly the same standard from both stations.

Slightly going off-topic, but this to my mind was the main disadvantage of unifying all Paddington services under one operator. (There were, of course, many advantages!)

WCML passengers benefit from the competition between LNWR and Virgin (and, of course, Chiltern) - different fares and different levels of provision. The same is true to a lesser extent on the ECML as far as Peterborough, and at various places across the network where you'll often have choice of a London InterCity operator, CrossCountry, and one or even two regional operators.

We don't have that in GWR land. If GWR changes its fares, or its restrictions, or its train design, passengers are stuck with it. Generally there's no "slower but cheaper" option as there might be elsewhere on the network.

Thames Trains were a bl--dy awful operator and I don't miss them in the least, but I do sometimes cast envious glances across to the WCML.

Won't there soon be competition between TFL and GWR between Reading and Paddington? Maybe spliting tickets at Reading will become popular?

BBC South Today's Paul Clifton will be doing a report on the Pewsey off peak to peak fare change from December's TT change for South Today.

I just watched the report from the lunchtime news, via BBC iplayer. One of the passengers featured on the report seemed completely unaware of the fare hike. His words were "...You've shocked me..."

I suspect there are still quite a few people who are completely unaware of the controversy and are going to rock up to Pewsey station from Dec 16th and will be in for a nasty shock when they ask for a ticket for the 0817 to London and be told the cost is now £120 rather than £53.60

I am very aware that there is this much angst over a single station.  Imagine the screams if fares are rationalised across the country, even if the total fare take remains the same.

For me it’s not so much GWR ending the availability of the off peak fare on a service from Pewsey between 8-8.30, but the difference in the price of the peak fare when travelling from Bedwyn particularly now the standard of rolling stock is exactly the same.

Revisiting this topic now that 2020 fares have been announced.

Technical stuff first.  Then fare suggestions below

Return fares from PEWSEY to London Paddington rise on 2nd January 2020
Anytime return from £120.00 to £123.40
Off peak return from £53.60 to £55.10
Super off peak return from £40.40 to £41.50

Anytime is valid on any train
Off peak is valid to London on the 09:30 and later trains and any Saturday or Sunday trains
Super off peak is valid to London on the 11:01 and later trains and any Saturday or Sunday trains

Return trains from London - these super off peak tickets are valid for journeys back at 10:35, 12:36, 14:36, 20:04 and 21:04 and any Saturday or Sunday train.  Off peak (rather than super off peak) are valid additionally on the trains from Paddington at 09:37 or 18:37.   If you want to travel back to Pewsey on the 07:04, 16:38, 17:04, 17:37 or 18:07 on a Monday to Friday, only the anytime ticket (of those listed above) is valid.

---

Suggestions

1. If you book well ahead, advance fares are often available.  They require you to choose your trains, but can be very good value.  Beware that they are not refundable.  GWR have increased the quota of these tickets with the changing timetable as something to help out Pewsey residents, but it is up to the train operator how many and when to offer them - they are not a "regulated" fare and numbers are limited, so they may dry up.

2. The tickets above are all period returns - come back within a month.   But if you are traveling up and back the same day, you can use DAY returns.  These are not available over as long a distance as from Pewsey to London, but they ARE available Pewsey to Newbury and then Newbury to London.  Day returns can be substantially cheaper than singles or period returns.   It will cost £10.10 anytime day return Pewsey to Newbury and then £61.60 day return Newbury to Paddington (£71.70 total) rather that £123.40 if you are doing a day trip.  All tickets can be bought on line or from the ticket office at Pewsey (when staffed).  The only stipulation is that you must travel on a train that calls at Newbury - and that is any train from Pewsey EXCEPT the 09:30 and any train back from Paddington except the 17:04 and 20:04.

3. If you are travelling one way in the peak and the other way off peak, two single tickets (one peak, one off peak) will be cheaper than a peak return.

4. If you are travelling to London super-off peak but aren't sure whether you'll be coming back off peak or super off peak (e.g. up on the 11:01, probably back on the 20:04 but you may catch the 18:37), you can buy a super-offpeak return and then ask for it to be excessed (pay the difference) if it turn out you're coming home on the 18:37.

5. If you are travelling multiple times during a week, in the peaks and want maximum flexibility, take a look at the price of a 7 day season ticket.  That's £186.60 in 2019 and £191.20 in 2020

6. Railcards offer a 34% saving on many tickets - there's a difference in exactly which railcards save on which tickets, and the rules differ at Pewsey (outside the old "South East") area and Newbury (inside it)

As from 16th December, the train from Pewsey to London at around quarter past eight moves from "off peak" to anytime, meaning that the price of a return ticket to London on that train (£53.60 if coming back outside the peak) more than doubles. There are a multitude of option which will allow most passengers to make their journeys at rather less that the new headline price of £120.00 (or £123.40 in 2020). Please look at my suggestions, and if you need further explanation or advise please ask.   I have done my best to be accurate, but please note that I am not an industry professional or representative, and if in doubt you should ask for confirmation.

Well done for working all that out and typing it all up Graham.

A lot of us who take an interest in all things rail can easily take for granted the knowledge and understanding we have of how things like fares work. For those who don’t it can be very complicated either getting caught out with the wrong fare or paying way more than they should.

Agreed.

It is also important to quash silly rumours that start circulating, for example some people were under the impression that ALL fares from Pewsey were going to be more than doubled, even though in reality it is only one train that will be affected.

Further to 5. above. It is cheaper to purchase split season tickets (trains do not have to stop at the splitting point for this type of split):-

7 day ticket prices applicable from the fares change:-
£  26.80 Pewsey - Bedwyn
£138.30 Bedwyn - London Terminals
£165.10 Total

Well spotted ... that was a change when we went from "Conditions of Carriage" to "Condition of Travel".  Prior to that, splitting was allowed at a none-calling station if one ticket was a season or similar and the other(s) were not. I recall a journey with multiple splits from North Camp to Melksham, and because I had a season ticket from Cholsey to Didcot, I was able to split at Farnborough North even though the train did not call there.    Scene 2 - difference of opinion with the train manager who told me that rule didn't apply on the North Downs line; he move on when I want across to my backpack where (I told him, correctly) I happened to have a printer copy of the NRCoC.  Note - this option is no longer allowed, but as FenMan pointed out two seasons now can be joined without a stop.

An off peak fare for an arrival at a London Terminal at 0923 is exceedingly generous.

OTC

Not really.

According to GWR, Pewsey was granted an exception in 2004 to allow off peak fares on the peak time train to London Paddington after 8am because there was a very limited off-peak service. In the current timetable (pre 15th December) the next train after the 0810 to London Paddington is the 1018 which doesn't arrive into London Paddington until 1121

The concession was / is there, indeed, because of the historic timetable which has its final day tomorrow.

We have known that a timetable improvement has been coming to Pewsey for a number of years - I recall standing on the platform at telling passengers they their 08:10 train would be replaced by a bus for 50 days, thanking them in advance for their forbearance, and telling them of trains that would be a little faster and gaps filled.  I do feel that would have been a good time to inform people of significant fare changes too - after all "when does it go and what does it cost" are the typical first two questions about public transport from people.  But the plans to change the fare concessions, which had been in place for 14 years and people had built their lives around, were not revealed.  I feel the information was withheld until far too late.

A peak day return fare from BEDWYN to London costs 43p per mile, but from Pewsey to London only a period return is available at 60p per mile.    If passengers making a day return journey from Pewsey to London had an option at the same pence per mile as Bedwyn, their £53.50 would have risen to a £76.20 return fare day return, and not to the headlined £120.00.  With one of the government's objectives being to widen the commuter belt, Great Western could have taken the opportunity to introduce an anytime day return from Pewsey

Fare rises typically happen on the first working day in January.   Great Western's alacrity in removing this concession without waiting for the cycle just a couple of weeks later has probably done far more damage to their good name than the income they would have lost over what, after all, is the Christmas and New Year period.

Surely the better comparison is with Swindon, about the same distance and with  a slightly dearer fare than Pewsey. Both are outside the "London Area" or ex-Network South East fare structure. Swindon does have a lot more services of course but its first off peak departure will be 0910 as against 0930 from Pewsey. The B&H service is fast, arriving at 1027 compared to 1007 from Swindon.

The current TT arrival of 1121 (until 15/12) is not really relevant?

It might be better trying to have the boundary moved to include Pewsey, serving it by extending the Bedwyns. There's a long natural gap between stations afterwards.

EOE

OTC