Great Western Coffee Shop

At Worcester F S today, I saw 2 FGW HSTs. One for London, the other for Malvern in Platform 1. I saw guards operate SDO on HSTs (first time for me). NB both were 2+8.

Oh dear- dwell times in the station were about 5 mins both times! Here are the problems I saw.

London Bound Train:
*Guard operated SDO too far forward, so 2 sets of doors were on the edge of the platform. This might have been a precaution in case the driver stopped short (a few feet would have put both doors of the platform), but it resulted in people trying to board from locked doors. Of course, people have no idea about HSTs/SDO, so you can't blame them.
*These doors, after they were tried (unsuccessfully), however, were open slightly- the guard had to come down and press them shut before retuning to the panel- this wasted time.
*It took ages for the LM despatch staff to properly dispatch the train- have LM been trained for HSTs?
*Of course, the platform curves the wrong way, so a 180 always took 3 mins; but this HST took 4-5mins. Timetabled time about 2-3 mins at max. The train was already late- it left later!

Malvern Bound Train
*This train took 5+ mins to despatch. Timetabled 2-3 mins.
*To be fair, someone alighted just as the guard was about to lock up. He slammed the door- pretty hard (it seemed to me). However, it was not shut properly. The FGW guard shouted (he was stressed!) and a LM despatch staff ran up and kicked the door shut. The point is- the doors seem to be pretty hard to slam, especially for people used to automatic doors! This wastes time.
*The LM staff took along time as well.
*The train arrived late. It left later.
*The driver did not "rev" the engine fully until the rear car had passed the station. Are not the drivers allowed to rev fully when in a delay?

Overall
*Both guards looked tired, stressed, fed up and angry. The Lon bound one shouted at people trying to board on the locked doors. THe Malvern one went mad when that person leapt off without shutting the door fully. NB- the door looked shut! it wasn't. Has SDO been bad for Guards' health?
*Dwell times were bad- yes ok, the short platform, the curve the wrong way adds to this.
*Basically, it looked like an awkward system to operate, esp for trains trying to catch up time!

In conclusion, from this experience, I cannot see SDO being viable, especially at awkward stations like Worcs F S.

I commend FGW getting more seats, better carriages with less noise etc, but was this a good move for the Cotswold Line- a line where punctuality is even more important?

What do others make of my findings? Was it just a one off? Please reply.

PS- why do guards have to lock doors from the same panel as they opened them (with SDO)? Moving to the middle would have helped both guards, the LM staff, and made the dwell time shorter.

They don't have to use the same panel if they use 'SDO Hold' I *think*

I pretty sure they don't but I don't think they are meant to.
They do it in Cornwall alot with unstaffed stations. They check all the doors and lock further up but as far as I can work out they have to turn the key to Train Doors and then lock which seems to breifly unlock doors locked by SDO. They can definatly take the key out though.

'Scuse my ignorance, but what's SCO, please? (as per the title)

Think he means SDO.

Either that or Selective Coach/Carriage Opening :D

What do people think about the long term viability?

Are the scenes I talk about above rare?

I've never seen any problem, perhaps you Cotswold people are simply not used to HSTs!

That's definitely one problem. But cutting this out, the dwell time was too long!

And remember, I rather an HST than a Thames Turbo- even if a Thames Turbo keeps to time better!

Thanks for the clarification - dam*it, I should have worked that out for myself!

I have to say, in my experience the above incidents are comparatively rare - though I have seen a couple of hiccups at Pewsey (which has short platforms)

I hate to think what the delay would have been had someone had a bike. I think the the Malvern bound guard would have blown his top off!

He would have had to walk all the way down to the front power car, load the bike, and then walk back, adding at least 2 more mins on!

Luckily, the Malvern guard had the buffet/customer host to lock the doors on the panel, so the guard could walk a few yards down the platform! This might have helped with the bike loadings.

From what I know buffet staff should not do anything in relation to dispatch.

Well, she (the customer host or buffet host) locked the doors for the guard! I think he was passed caring about rules! I assumed that he had just about had enough of SDO!

Or it could have been a ticket inspector? Are they allowed to dispatch?

It is possible there were two TM's on the service.
With the introduction of HST's on the cotswold line it has been common place with Senior Conductors learning HST's. That might be the case in this situation.

The thing is, she only appeared about 1 min before departure (the train had been dwelling for at least 5 mins!). it was also the first class buffet car.

But if there is extra training- that's good!

It's difficult to say then without knowing full details of it.

Best not speculate further.

 ;) :P

It is not uncommon to have an extra conductor/TM on afternoon/evening services in Cornwall who will basically act as despatch staff but just getting on the train and holiding a bit of paper for the TM to lock the doors as he has checked them, I must say it works really well at unstaffed stations as one member of staff does each half of the train.

Who remembers when BR built, in the mid 70's the MKIII carriages, (HST trailer cars are MKIII), questions were asked as to why they didn't have automatic external doors.

BR claimed that the coach design wouldn't take plug doors.

However after the Sleeper fleet of MKIII's were buit early 80's, we then saw the MKIII Wessex Electric (London-Weymouth) and MKIII coaches for Ireland, with PLUG DOORS so who told porkies.

More to the point wouldn't PLUG doors save a lot of station dwell time, untill a door fails of course!!!! ;D

I know! The dwell time would have been 3 mins if the guards did not have to walk up and down slamming doors!

why does he have to walk up and down slamming doors?....because the alighting passengers are incapable of performing such a task i suppose

Was the signal on? this signal can sometimes take awhile to come off!

No real point in selecting full power ( although most of us do) the gradient runs slightly downwards and trains soon reach the 40mph linespeed here.

In defence of the humble passenger, I suspect there's two subtle elements at play here.

Younger passengers are largely used to travelling on trains with automatic, electric doors, and don't think to slam the doors on older stock behind them. (I am being careful not to generalise here and bemoan the lack of courtesy today, since I know full well that the young are every bit as capable of being thoughtful and considerate as anyone else)

Older passengers still perhaps carry a mental image of the halcyon days of railways, when they were run solely as a public service, with cheerful porters on every platform to carry their luggage and help them on and off the train.

Both can easily be allayed by the adoption of clear and correct signage on the platforms.

"Please help by pulling the doord firmly closed behind you", for instance.

As the moment to the best of my knowledge the signs mostly say something along the lines of "Train doors will be closed 30 seconds before departure"

- the "will be" in itself suggests that someone else will be doing the slamming, not you, the paying customer.

I could not see the signal.  But the signal is quite some yards away from the platform, so the train would have left anyway!

I would have thought seconds count!

I think your right! But also- a few announcements on the platform and onboard (for the first few months) would help as well.

But I thought the doors looked pretty hard to slam (the e.g. of that man that jumped off).

In their Defence, there are quite a few Posters displayed at stations such as Charlbury pointing out that HSTs are now being used and to improve punctuallity could customers please slam the doors behind them.

However, the pre-occupied / stereo-headphone listening / chatting on mobile - type passengers who do not hear, heed or act on the T/M's repeated requests to 'close the door after them', are unlikely to read such posters either!  >:(

I tend to make a point of closing doors, where appropriate, at Nailsea - with suitably frosty looks at those who've alighted without doing so!

<(-_-)>

From my experiences in Cornwall younger people are much better at closing the slam doors as those are on the trains they prefer to travel on. It is the 20/30 year old people who mainly don't close them but teenagers do.

I always close a slammed door if it is open and have once been at an end of the train and closed a door for the guard as he was in the TGS.

I have many a time helped the guard out on the 17.33 PAD-PGN. When the old Valenta power cars did that service, if one was on the front and I was on the service, I would do it all the way down to Paignton(staying at the front), this in turn put me at the front, and the TM on the coach nearest to the buffet (where he would then revert to on departure). Thus he was at the back, I was at the front made for a timley dispatch after each station, as hardly any doors got closed. When you were late, it was even more useful, along with the driver who would give plently of 'thrash'!

It worked quite well, as quite a few of the stations loaded from the front. More than once I got a nice can of coke or 2 on the Paignton-Newton Abbot return leg!


Thats enough of me babbling on!

I saw a Delayed PZ-Padd HST arrive at Truro, as manaul announcements had been made about first class at the front trailing to coach A at the rear before the train arrived, it took about 30 seconds for about 20-30 to alight and about 120 to get on including a Wheel chair, and as the announcement had finished with please close the doors after you board, from stop to start the train was stationary for less than 1 minute so even with SDO delays can be avoided.

The big day for the changeover to stopping all HSTs with standard class coaches on short platforms will be Sunday, May 18, the start of the summer timetable, according to Mike Carroll, the FGW London and Thames Valley route director, at Friday's meeting in Charlbury.

From smokey

"However after the Sleeper fleet of MKIII's were buit early 80's, we then saw the MKIII Wessex Electric (London-Weymouth) and MKIII coaches for Ireland, with PLUG DOORS so who told porkies.

More to the point wouldn't PLUG doors save a lot of station dwell time, untill a door fails of course!!!! "
 
Power operated plug doors are probably the only real solution to this problem  but I can't see that happening as we are going to get the all singing all dancing IEP. Alternatively  would it be possible to remove the outer  catch which is what seems to cause of some of the problems, the door appears shut (not swinging) but is on outer catch only so has to be either  pushed/kicked shut quite heavily or reopened and slammed.

Which is why HSTs supurb trains that they are, are  really Intercity stock, not semifast or commuter stock they should run for at least 30 minutes betwen stops.

I suggested having the doors on springs earlier, and the addition of an interior handle (so the windows could be sealed shut).

But someone said that they would find it too difficult to push the door open!

NO! AHH, all the head out potential lost!  :o

Nothing nicer on a hot summer evening to stick ones head out of the window on the approach to a station

Safety note:  Always do this FACING the direction of travel, withdraw ones head if there is ANY obstacle within 6 ft of the train, do not do this when travelling at full speed!

KEEP THE WINDOWS

You are safer having your head out of the window for the whole journey than just sticking it out as you can see what is coming, the safety notices fail to say that.

Amateurs ;)

Personally I think waving to family through the open windows is an iconic image of rail travel these days and shouldn't be lost for the health and safety brigade.

Rather than use SDO I think they should guarantee anyone who gets out of the train from a door that is not by a platform will be nominated for a 'Darwin Award'. http://www.darwinawards.com/darwin/
If anyone wants a good laugh read about Lawnchair Larry.  :o

It would be a shame to see the windows go, but I still think that handles should be put inside - many people don't know how to open the doors (the window says "Do not lean out etc."). ::)

My other rationale for sealing the windows would be to help regulate the temperature in the passenger saloon (i.e. make the air con/heating more effective) AND make the coaches quieter. ;D Unfortunately, people do not shut the windows, and they are not on an upward spring! >:(

Some windows have springs although for obvious reasons are not that strong.

I think all did but many no longer work.

Some do - but only spring halfway up, useless (and uncomfortable for the poor person nearby!).

There are some advantages to having windows that can be opened if necessary, however:

See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/cumbria/3127447.stm

Quote
"These new trains did not have windows that could open so it was like a greenhouse effect. The air conditioning broke down and we were left with almost no air inside the carriages. It was intolerable."

and http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2739939.stm

Quote
As the air-conditioning had stopped working and all the windows were sealed, he said, passengers first opened the doors via the emergency locks.  But they were later told they were about to be towed back to Waterloo, so the doors were closed and locked for safety.  But then the train did not move, he said. "We sat around for another two hours and that was when we had to break the windows because the only doors that we could open were on the side of the track that other trains were passing us by on.  Rather than being foolish and opening them on that side, we just smashed windows in order to get some air back into the place."

 ??? ::)

Smashing windows and opening doors by the emergency release is quite stupid and likely to get everyone in trouble, why the crew let them do that is beyond me.

I'm not disagreeing with you, but I think in both those examples, the train crew had actually lost control of the situation?  Due to the lack of, or misleading, information being given out by the train crew, those passengers who had been cooped up in very uncomfortable conditions only did what they felt was necessary to relieve the situation?

The point I was making is that having hermetically sealed carriages is fine - until something goes wrong!  The option of pushing down a few carriage door windows, to counteract the air-conditioning either not working or pushing hot air around if necessary, would perhaps avoid the need for anyone to smash windows?

 ;) ::)