Great Western Coffee Shop

Train services are running as follows:

London Victoria to Gatwick Airport, Brighton, Sutton and East Croydon
London Liverpool Street to Stansted Airport (serving intermediate stations)
London Marylebone to Oxford Parkway
Southport to Liverpool South Parkway
Liverpool Central to Kirby,West Kirby, New Brighton, Ormskirk and Hooton
Wide range of services in Glasgow area

In London, the Overground and the Waterloo and City lines are closed. Bakerloo, District and Circle lines are part closed.  Good service report on all other lines.

Buses / coaches from Gatwick and Heathrow airports to Reading.   
First Bus are running a Bristol to Bath service and also some routes in the Bristol area

This is almost certainly not a complete list and you are welcome to add to it.

Berlin....everything running, just like it did yesterday (Xmas Day). Trains, S& U-Bahn, the latter at 5min intervals in the afternoon, 10mins in morning

The UK must catch up....

  Couldn't agree more, definitely on Boxing Day  (........ducks & takes cover!)  :)

Don't know why you're ducking ...

I'm not sure of intervals, frequencies ... and I'm going to suggest that the Christmas and New Year period remains  an opportunity for significant engineering closures.  But the organisational systems we have on the main rail network in the UK don't lend themselves to an easy fix, and being "just two days in the year" it's not going to be at the top of anyone's list to fix in London during the 350+ normal days of the year.  Of course London does have public transport on Boxing Day, so many of those who live and work in the capital and decide for the country as a whole might not have personal experience of what many passengers complain about.  If (note that word is in bold) passenger levels are going to be low, there is an argument for premium or peak pricing on Boxing Day ... just as there is on (for example) late night trains and buses for the rest of the year.

I wondered when I started this thread whether to describe Boxing Day as "own goal" day - the day in the year when the railway industry shows the country that it can do without trains.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if everyone could get together in the New Year and say "let's try something a bit more on 26th December 2017 of the overall good of our industry and customers" but alas I think I would have to describe that as "cloud cuckoo land".

Sorry, are you trying to tell us that Southern are running trains today? Must be a christmas present.

A good illustration of the "not my problem" mentality ... noting that Labour were in power for some ten years during which there were no Boxing Day services to speak of either ...

from the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-38432018)

Nor me.  I've long been an advocate for more Boxing Day trains as you know.  It sounds like even ChrisB has now been persuaded.   ;)

I'm confident that Crossrail will operate on Boxing Day when it commences as drivers contracts stipulate it, though for it to reach Reading it will need Network Rail to open the relevant signalling workstations (though the majority are open anyway for dealing with engineering and possessions).

Other operators will need it to be specified in their franchise aggreements as it will no doubt be a 'loss maker' on the vast majority of routes, so every time a franchise consultation is launched I urge everyone to push for Boxing Day services to be included. That way the DfT and wider government have to listen.  That will encourage more passengers which will encourage operators to run more routes and eventually a tipping point will be reached.

In my new area of residence, I have no public transport tomorrow, 27th, either. ::)

I have worked on the railways for 40 plus years, working Christmas and Boxing days is not alien to me as I have worked quite a few of those 40 plus Christmases

I found this statement on a Facebook group i belong to

"No trains on Christmas Day dates back to the early 1960's as the government tried to cut losses during the Beeching era. This extended to Boxing Day by 1981 to most of the UK except Scotland who took New Year's Day as their second "train free" day.
What most people do not realise is that to run trains Boxing Day would mean an army of staff also working Christmas Day, including Cleaners, Fitters, Drivers, shunters, Signallers, Controllers and a host of depot and other response staff who look after the plant and machinery."


Is it financially viable to run trains over Christmas and Boxing Day, would there be sufficient revenue to justify the level of staffing, would the traveling public be willing to pay the premium either as a fare on the day(s) or as an addition to the cost of tickets through the year?  It is likely also that the very disruptive engineering works that are held back to the Christmas break would mean greater disruption on more weekend through out the year, there are major tasks planned for the next 5 Christmases at places through out the UK.

From Network Rail (https://www.networkrail.co.uk/community/interest-groups/signalling-heritage/)


Not sure of their dates on that, but the railway's a very different beast in 2016 to it was in 1981 - and passenger numbers have doubled since that time on a network that's not too different it size to it was then. We have had a few gains and the odd loss like Clayton West, Balloch Pier and Croxley Green.

There's the short term financially viability to look at - also the lateral damage done by tuning people away on Boxing day, and the effect on the economy of the communities served; that latter's taken into account by the franchise system for the rest of the year, so should be for these two days too.

My thought is that it could do with a proper look.  I hope I didn't come across as suggesting the whole network should run right through Christmas, as I would be very surprised if the outcome of a review suggested that, and I would not want to rule out this time of year for major engineering works;  I think I've seen note than one Christmas closure is worth months of weekend blockages.


ok ... if you were to shut down for business at the end of Christmas Eve and restart on the morning of 26th with a limited services for that day, I'm afraid I'm not understanding why the "army" of cleaners, shunters, etc is needed on 25th.  ... and I'm noting that the modern army, like the modern railway is equipment rich and personnel sparse.

No conclusion here - just questions and thoughts.  Some extensions - such as Oxford Parkway to Oxford and Stansted to Cambridge seem to be 'no brainers' ... not running to (say) Stranraer would seem to be a 'no brainer' the other way.  But really it would be worthy of a proper look and analysed common decision to set the grounds for the future.

Thank you for your support!

My reason for ducking and covering was that this is a perennial theme and in previous years there has always been the suggestion (forcefully put) that it was the bruvvers wot won everyone involved the right to have a 2 day break over Christmas Day/Boxing Day and that it was very unlikely that anyone would give it up................I believe that one of the arguments put forward against a Boxing Day service was that rail staff would have to go easy on the ale on Christmas Day.....................

I've read the comments from all on this thread with interest..........I really don't think there is an argument for a Christmas Day service but the case for a Boxing Day service is compelling...........the World has changed as others have pointed out and there is much activity around sales, sporting events, working patterns etc.

Problem is if you had a "limited" service, especially on long distance routes it may well be overwhelmed (normal Sundays now see pretty much hideous overcrowding every week between Cornwall/London), so unless GWR managed ticket sales carefully (they won't - there's too much revenue in cramming on as many folks regardless of comfort and safety), it could end up being ridiculous and worse than the current arrangements.

The railways are very old fashioned with a lot of ancient practices and are not renowned for being "can do", there is rather too much "It won't work because", rather than "if we do XYZ we can make it work"............and then there are the Unions to deal with and we all know at the moment what chaos they can create if they want to make a point and put their minds to it.

My thought would be a normal Bank Holiday service on Boxing Day, with limited ticket sales - I'm not necessarily saying no standees, but the overwhelming majority reservation only on the longer routes.

Of course I'm coming at this from the perspective of a humble fare paying customer whom the railways are allegedly there to serve.............I'm not conversant with all the technical and logistical matters, but at the end of the day we did manage to organise D-Day successfully so I'm sure something could be possible if the will existed?

Hope everyone is having a good Christmas.

It is always easier to carry on (let alone stop) a service than reintroduce it. Culture adjusts to the situation.

At the time that Boxing Day services were first 'suspended' system-wide in England and Wales in 1975, the BR contractual arrangements with staff was time and a half pay plus a day in lieu. The number of people that were expected to travel on that day across the whole country was no more than 55,000.

Today Boxing Day working is excluded from the contracts of a significant section of the railway overall. I don't know if this was negotiated in exchange for something else, or because of the recent custom considered something of little concern at the time. Additionally it is largely outside of the franchise agreements - meaning the government would be likely to have to accept less of an annual premium if running the services on this day was considered less economic.

Note that Christmas and Boxing Day services had been thinning out for decades - I have turned up a complaint from a Devon MP about the lack of such on both days locally in his area in 1948.

I drove from home in Devon to home in Bristol along an almost spookily quiet M5. I don't recall seeing a lorry, although there were a couple of National Express coaches.

I drove from Swindon to Woking and back and the roads were anything but quiet.  fewer lorries than usual, coaches about normal, more than the usual number of cars for the time of day.  Also a 45min standstill several miles long on the M4 due to a vehicle fire. 

I wouldn't start from there if I were you...

I (unexpectedly) drove back from Plymouth to Taplow yesterday late afternoon, lots of Megabus/National Express coaches but I also noticed how quiet it was generally - I think the fact that Christmas fell over the weekend had a lot to do with this, I would imagine it will be considerably busier today.......good luck to all on the roads or braving the trains!

I guess there are couple things that need to happen to have train services on Boxing Day or even Christmas Day

The TOC's can see there will be a profit (remember they are not charities) in running trains bearing in mind they will have to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL
The TOC's convince NR to run trains, which actually i think is the easier part to organise again NR will have to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL

Or

The Government through the DfT will need to change the terms of the franchises with the TOC, this will still involve having to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL

The Government through the DfT will need to direct NR to timetable train services this will still involve having to pay enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL


The to paying of enhanced rates to staff and or give TOIL is all rapped up in terms and conditions of employment which differ from TOC to TOC and there are also variations within NR as a legacy of the old IMC and RT.


I am guessing NR would want at least the Track Access fees from the TOC's as they get for a Sunday service so it would not be viable for a TOC to run an hourly service from say 10am to 8pm on selective routes where a normal Sunday service would be half hourly from 7am to 11pm on all routes or the Government stand the cost.


Boxing Day service doable YES .................. will it be cost effective to the tax payer / fare payer ???

It's quiet on the roads again today, so I imagine it isn't going to be particularly busy on the trains. Running any sort of a service  over the holiday period would be costly in terms of staff premium wages and overtime, for not that many pax. It would also mean the Orange Army couldn't graft away so easily while the rest of us tuck into our turkey and that bottle of port.

It would also deprive the media of one of its favourite news stories of the year - the Great Christmas Shutdown, and the almost insurmountable problems it will cause the couple of passengers they can find on Christmas Eve who are still sober. If it weren't for the tinsel, they could record Easter's version at the same time.

It would run at a cost to the taxpayer, but a worthy one in my opinion.  After all, many normal services early morning, late at night, and quite a few during the day all run at the taxpayers expense currently in effect.

For GWR a phased introduction from the start of the new franchise in 2020, when services are up and running on Crossrail, and most major engineering works have been completed.  Using volunteers rather than rostered staff, to avoid awkward union negotiations would be the most sensible way forward.  Probably just the majority of the DOO routes first and maybe Reading to Gatwick.  Then assuming it's successful you could expand it to Bristol/Swansea/Plymouth - I doubt all the Cornish boxes would ever make Penzance a realistic possibility.

Get that all written into the franchise agreement and bids would come in at a slightly reduced level than if they weren't in there - the 'cost' to the taxpayer, but an amount that would look very insignificant compared to the overall franchise subsidies and payments.

A problem with volunteer staffing, is can you guarantee on their support every year?
I believe First Kernow buses have to have volunteers to operate a service on bankholidays as bankholidays fall outside the agreed working week , that's why it's only a Sunday service. If I remember correctly last January they managed to run a Sunday service on NYD, but not this year.

Just an observation.

Pay them enough and you can.  There's a pool of some 300 drivers within the LTV driver ranks alone, so if only 1 in 10 could be tempted they'd still be enough for a pretty comprehensive service say between 7am-10pm.  Hourly OXF-PAD fast (6-car Turbo), hourly DID-PAD stopper (8-car 387), hourly BDW-PAD semi-fast, hourly RDG-GTW semi-fast, and perhaps a shuttle on the branches would be about right as a starter.  Minimal numbers of platform staff would be required for DOO trains, and no guards (aside from the Gatwick line).  You then ramp it up depending on how successful it is.

Chiltern have had no problems and their service is run by volunteers.

And if the service costs more to run then maybe cheap advance fares should not be available. Except then the railway would be accused of ripping off the passenger, so there would still be a news story for the press to moan about.

I can see the arguments either way regarding boxing day trains, but what about declaring Boxing day a "proper" public holiday, and prohibiting by law most businesses from opening ? That would greatly reduce demand for train services.

Large shops, theatres, cinemas, sports stadia, theme parks, night clubs, and public entertainments in general.

This may sound radical but would give millions more workers a proper two day break.
There would also be a significant energy saving and environmental gain by not heating and lighting the above premises.

Whilst the retail and entertainment industries would howl in protest at the "billions of pounds lost, and consequent number of employees thrown out of work" I consider such arguments to be false. The public only have so much money to spend, and I see no overall loss to the retail trade if people cant buy new furniture on boxing day but have to postpone such purchases for 24 hours.
If all large stores were shut by law, no one store would be put at a disadvantage, and they would all save a days overtime payment and fuel costs.

There is much on the sporting calendar for boxing day. The only premier league fans able to follow their team by train yesterday were Crystal Palace's, who at least could get to Watford and back. Making it a proper public holiday wouldn't stop hospital staff having to go into work, but given how quiet it was on the roads where I was on Boxing Day - and I would have driven anyway - I'm not sure there is a great deal of call for services.

Plenty of cars on the motorways and trunk roads I was on mid-afternoon.  Very few lorries and the odd bus.

...........did Oliver Cromwell just walk in?  :)

Whilst I think Broadgage's idea has some merit - I can't think of anything worse than shopping on Boxing Day - if we're being realistic it's very unlikely to happen.  The reality is that more and more people are likely to want to travel in the coming years, so the railway should make more of an attempt to cater for its passengers needs and the DfT should be more proactive in giving it the nudge it needs to do so.

And those of us who'd like to travel to/from relatives or work? Having public transport over  Christmas isn't just about getting to and from shops.

This non-driver relied on the goodwill of others to get him to visit relatives in hospital.

Don't like the idea - sorry.


Couldn't agree more.

As owner / operator of a business that stayed open (has chosen to stay open) right over Christmas, I do not want to have to navigate around legislation to allow me to provide facilities that people need over this period of the year and need (in some cases) far more than at other times of year.   It's a customer-facing business and it is/was a real pleasure to talk with customers for whom our services make a difficult part of the year that much more pleasurable and practical.

We are a team of half a dozen, and it's probably fair to say not one of them / us would want to work Monday to Friday from 9 to 5 with all public holidays off.  Over Christmas, yes, there is a preference to spend time with family but also a willingness to pop-in/fill-in for a few hours and/or/if/as needed.   Everyone lives close / no-one needs to rely on public transport (and that's necessary all year - look at me up at 05:30 this morning - 28th December - to do an early breakfast) and whist I took the Christmas day shift this year, that's not always been the case in previous years and indeed even on this 25th, 2 of the team popped by online at our virtual control room and I have "if you need me for a few hours" offers.  I rather suspect that with good staff relationships, there would be very few problems staffing a 'thin' service over one or even two of the days - most people are well used to odd hours and days and prefer the - "I hate 9 to 5 as it kills the day - on earlies, I get the afternoon off to walk the dog and go shopping on on lates I can lie in ..."

No he did allow any Christmas celebration so there would be holidays at all!

I get the feeling that he would have expected a full Christmas rail service! (He may have had a more robust attitude to ASLEF/RMT on this issue too!!!)  :D

I drove home on the afternoon of boxing day, and the roads were fairly busy. Would any of that traffic go by rail if the option was there? I'm not sure. I was loaded from floor to roof in the boot and had my roof box full as well, with presents and 3 days clothes for wife and kids. Not viable by train.

There seems to be a demand argument on boxing day operations in shops

Stores open because there is demand, the ban boxing day trading brigade say there will be no demand if the shops didn't open. My argument is if the people didn't shop, the shops wouldn't bother.

The same applies with the rail, but how to argue there is or isn't a demand without operating it first.

Make it attractive for staff if staffing contracts wouldn't have it as a working day.

And the cost to the taxpayer would be very high and those driving/not using would complain if the cost to the taxpayer? Very valid argument.

Having spent the last few Christmases in Europe, we are so far behind...seemed to be a full weekend day service in each city we were in, in fact full public transport services!

So...make it part of the working contract. A Christmas working every x years, so everyone could plan ahead in their lives. Its in new contracts so one knows when you sign up dor a job on public transport, just like the NHS?

The problem would be level of service. In years like this ine, with an extra holiday on 27th, most dekand would come from shoppers only, so a limited market, and possibly too many unsold seats, certainly in the middle of the day?

On years when its back to work on the 27th, denand likely outstrips supply after lunch when the big back home trips all take place. I remember the M40 traffic a few years ago - horrendous from lunch till nearly midnight! Almost need a weekday non-peak service.

Europe seems to use a Saturday service on Christmas & Boxing day, and that's one option. Or we carry on as we are with no service, so everyone makes alternative arrangements. But anything in the middle (Sunday service, for example) won't do as more pax than seats will happen & horrendous overcrowding will happen, which frankly is worse than what we currently have!