Great Western Coffee Shop

From the FGW website :

05:42 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 08:20
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.

05:50 Moreton-In-Marsh to London Paddington due 07:29
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.

07:48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:03
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.

08:37 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 10:59
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

Also 10.31 Chelt - Padd

No longer Adelante: 06:30 PAD - BRI  ;D

Hurrah!

(although it was late...)

Like nearly every other service today.

WOE:
0730 35 late
0818 on time
0905 25 late
1005 25 late
1000 25 late
1105 25 late
1205 20 late
1218 15 late
1305 10 late
1405 5 late
1505 5 late

APPAULING and no apparant reason why EVERY service was late  >:(

More today (19/02/2008) :

07:48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:03
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.

08:37 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 10:59
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.

10:31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:39
This train has run short formed with 5 carriages.This is due to an earlier train fault.

20/02/2008 :

05:42 London Paddington to Worcester Foregate Street due 08:20
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

07:48 London Paddington to Cheltenham Spa due 10:03
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

08:37 Worcester Foregate Street to London Paddington due 10:59
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

10:31 Cheltenham Spa to London Paddington due 12:39
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

11:21 London Paddington to Oxford due 12:18
This train will run short formed with 5 carriages.

Also :

07:21 London Paddington to Oxford due 08:20
This train will run short formed with 3 carriages.

Forgive my ignorance, but i thought they were getting rid of the Adelante fleet? Or are they using them until the HSTs are completely finished? (even though i read they'd be out of use by december of last year!) It just seems strange that it's not just 1 or 2 services running short formed its 5 or 6 at the very least.  What will they do if and when they are sent back? They can't exactly send a Turbo on a Service to Cheltenham surely (this is onve i've noticed is regularly "short formed")  Surely there aren't that many HSTs left to Refurb?

They are now apparently keeping 3 Adelantes for Cotswold line workings.

Whats the justification for keeping them though?  Surely they planned to have sufficient HSTs for any 180s not to be required?

Perhaps to allow quicker journey times/allow more HSTs to be under maintenance as they aren't running up and down the Cotswolds empty!

And to give greater passenger comfort!

In which case Adelantes to Penzance anybody  :D

In 10car yes, in 5 no.

Why is the First Class (on 180s):

a- nowhere near the buffet, for the customer host;

b- in the middle of the train?

Hi all...

Me and a couple of friends have decided to go on a bit of a tour of the FGW network this coming Thursday (28th Feb) and use up our priv boxes :). I've said I want to go on a Adelante just because i've never been on one before and want to. From reading this site, it seems as though its quite hard to pin point exactly what services will be formed of 180s. Has anyone got any rough ideas of what they might be working this Thurs? the 0748 from PAD to Cheltnham Spa seems to run as '5 cars'... Is that a common service for a 180 to run?

Thanks :)

Welcome to the forum, FCC_Boy

Last week, the best bets for Adelantes were the Cheltenham train you mention, or the 05.42 from Paddington to Worcester, returning at 08.37 (10am departure from Oxford to Paddington) and the 17.51 from London to Worcester and 20.58 return. On paper, the evening return trip is part of the same diagram as the 05.42, but I don't know what was going on in the middle of the day. The full duty is as follows (borrowed from an swlines post in December):

1W07 05.42 London Paddington - Worcester Foregate Street
1P32 08.37 Worcester Foregate Street - London Paddington
1D29 11.21 London Paddington - Oxford
1P47 13.30 Oxford - London Paddington
1D43 14.51 London Paddington - Oxford
1P61 16.30 Oxford - London Paddington
1W57 17.51 London Paddington - Worcester Foregate Street
1P84 20.58 Worcester Foregate Street - London Paddington

No sign of 'five-car substitutes' today on the website, but then last week on Monday and Tuesday the Worcester trains I mention were being shown on the website as short-formed (and I had been told by local train crew that the switch to HSTs was supposed to happen officially on the 18th), whereas by Friday they weren't, even though Adelantes operated both workings on Thursday and Friday. There was at least one 180 out there yesterday working a Paddington to Hereford and return.

As I understand it, all workings are now booked HST. To find a 180 it's really a case of trying those former 180 diagrams, or just going to Paddington and seeing what is there!

There are 2 Adelante diagrams this week, 4 Adelante's left in the fleet. When I left work this morning a 3rd Adelante was going to come into service late morning to cover up for HST shortage.

I thought FGW were keeping CL services as 180s.

Or will this happen in May?

I'm not expecting it to happen at all to be honest. DfT have allegedly stuck their oar in again according to my sources.

Seeing as how them using 180's for the cotswold line ended up in parliament a few years back, i'd highly doubt they're going to use them for there at least. A better use of them would be making gloucester/chelt hourly servers to padd

Then how are they allowed to moan that the service is crap  :-\

Magic.

Quite!

Yes why wasn't First Class on the Adelante units in a Driving Car, so that SC don't trawl through FC all the time, with the Buffet in the next car?

How do the stewards (known as "Customer Hosts" to FGW) serve refreshments when the buffet is several coaches away?

In some ways, keeping HSTs will reduce overcrowding in the peaks, and in the of peaks, how about some Firstminutefares?

They keep a small amount of stock in the FC coach - when that runs out they go an a fetch run

I won't comment on that.

 >:(

The only Adelante I saw today was on a Paddington to Oxford run at around 2 this afternoon.

Top marks to FGW though for their efforts today: I got on a short-formed Paddington to Bristol HST with no buffet car or catering this afternoon, and the crew set up temporary facilities with what they could pick up at Reading, basically cold drinks and snacks, which they dispensed from the end of a coach at either end of the train (for sale to the Standard Class customers and "free" to us lot in First Class, although I often dispute that they're free given the additional cost of the tickets)

Right.
From all this talk around here, I'm guessing that adelantes are virtually bye bye from the south west at the moment.
My friend who knows stuff about trains, has always wanted to go on an adelante, but we've never had the chance.
Can anyone tell me what the current situation with the adelantes are here in the west, whether they are still around, if they are usually on certain times, and if I've got even a slim chance of getting my friend on an adelante?
Thanks

My aim yesterday was to travel on one... And I succeeded  :)

From what others on here told me and from what I saw, the 0748 Paddington to Cheltenham Spa is your best bet. Yesterday, it actaully started from one of the bay platforms at Reading and we were told to catch the 0745 train (Swansea one) and change at Reading. Quite handy the 180s only being 5 cars... Couldn't have got a HST into the bay platform (I don't think so anyway :-\). Anyway, one of my friends is also a FGW drivers and he said that apparently FGW are now keeping 3 Adelantes.

I'm glad I've travelled on one. They are not that special to be honest, but nice to go on a DMU that can go at those speeds and makes a difference to a HST... And nice to be on a train and hear the roar of the engine as she powers up ;D! I wish we had DMUs on FCC on the Great Northern :)

Now you mention it, I do seem to recall that possibility being mentioned on here a few times before..... ;D

That's why i like the DMU/DEMU such as the voyagers. They've got a good speed and power up time (and as you said, to hear to sound of the engines as they power up!) Ok, it's hard to beat the space of the HST and the speed of an HST when they get started, but for speed and start/stop journeys, DMU/DEMU's are good.

The RUS for the ECML published today by NR states categorically that HT will have switched completely to Adelantes within a year, replacing its 222s.

Here is a relevant link.
http://www.networkrail.co.uk/browseDirectory.aspx?dir=\RUS%20Documents\Route%20Utilisation%20Strategies\East%20Coast%20Main%20Line&pageid=4449&root=\RUS%20Documents\Route%20Utilisation%20Strategies

This will presumally make way for the 222's to go to Cross Country as IIRC with a few modifications they would be completely compatible with eachother.

Even more compatible with EMT Meridians. With the Corby service now in hand to start in December (gosh a reopened railway line in England, flying pigs anyone?) they will need another two sets of something.

I believe that the Hull Trains 222s are going to EMT as they are reorganising their fleet of Meridians with them swapping HSTs for Meridians on London-Sheffield services, HSTs running London-Nottingham services. This is to provide extra capacity on London-Sheffield trains.

I think it has been mentioned already in another thread, but Modern Railways reported a month or two ago that a swap plan would see Hull Trains take up to six 180s, with their 222s going to EMT, in turn freeing up an HST that is allocated to the Corby service, which would come to FGW.

All fits together.

FGW are soon to receive a new HST.

I think its the EMT HST that's currently being operated by NatEx East Coast whilst their fleet of HSTs are in for refurb which is due for completion early next year.

Oh fiddlesticks! Now I am even more confused!!!!!!!  >:( >:(

Does anybody know what is going on with FGW and the 180s (Adelantes).  ???

I have heard about 3 versions on this website recently!

Lee- I take it your comment was meant to be sarcastic. Why?

Here is a relevant link.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/northamptonshire/7270487.stm


You take wrong (as the "smiley" at the end indicates.) The possibility has been mentioned on here a lot before, and it would be a sad world if I wasnt allowed to point that out in a jokey but friendly manner.

Anyway, I have run it past the moderation team, and they are happy that I meant no offence by it.

Going back to your Adelante question, according to Andrew Haines, FGW are retaining 3 Class 180's until they receive the HST.

1. I was not criticising your use of sarcasm- ;) just wondering whether it was sarcasm or not. I understand- it has been mentioned a lot before ;D, I was just confused at yet another anouncement. :( Sorry, my poor wording at fault! :o

2. How can 1 HST replace 3 180s? ??? I take it that they are not axing services!  >:(

3. Where/when did AH make the announcement?

Sorry again!

I'm not sure thats true but the 180s were never that reliable so many would be at OOC broke!

2 x Adelante to provide a 10 car set for a diagram, and 1 unit spare / being serviced to replace one of the other two.   If the TOC has just one rostered Adelante service on their books and it's for 10 cars, then they need this high level of redundancy. That would not be needed with another 125 - availabiity on those is (guess) around 90%, and will only vary slightly with another on the fleet.

Isn't it ironic that Adelantes are being returned because they are so expensive to lease and operate, yet here we are with a truely inefficient operation that uses three of them for one diagram.  I can understand how it came to be ... but the extra money it's costing over and above the cost of a single 125, even for a few months, would have made up the shortfall figure I've been quoted on the TransWilts for several years!

The 10 car train will be good!

Oh well, how long until the HST comes to FGW to replace these 180s? December? or will it be in a year (after being "refreshed")?

No problem, Btline  :)

Andrew Haines made the announcement as part of his presentation in front of the TravelWatch SouthWest metting in Taunton on Saturday.

2 * Adelante (10 cars) seen passing my house at Taplow on Up Main around 08:05 this morning, still accelerating so assumme was on Up Oxford which stops Maidenhead 08:00 but doesn't appear to stop at Reading.

Or was I seeing things?

1 x Adelante on 1606 service from Worcs Foregate to Padd service!  >:(

It arrived on time!!!!! :)

Non-Adelanted service. My first run on the 17.51 from London to Worcester for 10 days tonight and an HST turns up at last, a fortnight later than planned.

Rather empty beyond Moreton-in-Marsh, as usual, but will be interesting to see once word gets round whether anyone transfers off the 17.21 or 18.21 now that this train is not jammed as far as Oxford, which it always was as an Adelante. HST allocations still seem jumbled up though, as this was a 'low-density' set (that's a whole FOUR tables in standard instead of two in 'high-density' mode) which I believe are meant to be on Swansea and West Country services.

Where a-bouts are the tables? In the middle?

Hopefully, some Firstminutefares will fill the HSTs!  ;D

Roughly in the middle, but not grouped together and they look almost as lost in the sea of airline seats as the two tables in a high-density set. Hardly the ambience for enjoying the sea views along the Devon coast.

Not true actually, the 4 tables are grouped in two sets of two, directly opposite eachother, about 1/3 and 2/3 down the carriage, which provides quite good views and don't expect to keep them, come May, Swansea and Penzance services should get low density sets.

Same train again today, (see above) Tuesday  2 * Adelante  ???.

Once again, 1606 Worcs - Padd was 180!

Why does the Cotswold Line not get low density sets? Yes they are busy towards London, but beyond Morton they are not- esp off peak.

And, come on- "low density" ??? how many tables did the HSTs have before, I would imagine double that number!

If the services are empty do they really deserve choice over best stock for long distance passengers?

17.51 London to Worcester back to an Adelante tonight and running on only four engines, as coach A's was out of action.

RE 'Low density' coaches, this is frankly a misnomer. As I said, the extra two tables are still lost in a sea of airline seats, so it makes no odds which type you get.

Okay, qprrule, you get a view if you are lucky enough to bag one of the tables, but who will win the race from the barriers at Paddington on a summer Saturday? The family with children and luggage in tow, or the surfer types off for a weekend in Newquay?

Either variety of revamped HST standard class coach is fine if you are travelling alone and want to hide away on a working day and aren't making that long a journey, but for long-haul to the West Country, where people may well be travelling in a group but most will now find they can't sit together, they are a pretty poor comparison with the old layout, which had plenty of tables. Somehow I don't think the Swiss will be adopting FGW's seating layout for the Glacier Express through the Alps.

How many 180s are left. Is it just the three?

My favourite seat on a HST has been and always will be the 1 in the single one in the TGS. No-one to sit next to you - room for your bag nesxt to you as well.

Whoever has the reservation actually.
Remember, SSHH!

Same train today 08:00 off Maidenhead? 2 * Adelante.

That's three days running.

But running about 7 down.

Oh, I'm sure he will be: I think it's d_m who's the bad influence!   ;D

Thursday: Same train 2* Adelantes.

Passed 08:05

The books are open can FGW make it 2 * Adelante for 5 concecutative days?

Would that be a record?

Does anyone travel on this service?

What's the load like?

What about next week?

Isn't it exciting?

Friday Same train 2* Adelantes.

Well FGW have done it provided a 10 car train for 5 concecutative days.

Just goes to show that if you have enough spare units to cover the diagrams you can run the timetable with the correct formations.

Of course the accountants don't like spare units because they aren't earing a penny siting in the siding. However, the maths is against them because you can't expect 100% availability from a complex mechanical object however good the maintenance.

It's a question of of what percentage utilisation  you can expect. If there are 3 adelante diagrams and 5 units then that's 60% which is probably poor.

However if there were 18 diagrams and 2 spare units that's 90% which is probaly pushing it.

Of course it you also have to factor in the miles per failure and the expected diagram miles but the maths is relatively simple i'e the more relible the unit the more miles it can run between failures so lessening teh need for spare units to pick up the diagram .

It's called operational research which we (British) were pioneers of during WW2 but seem to forgotten all about when it comes to planning nowadays. Of course during the war it was calculating the mininum number of bullets needed to kill one enemy soldier. It's an astronomic figure.

Try explaing your lack of performance in those terms to your significant other.   ;D ;D


Impregnation rates probably work out similarly.

Surely 2x 180 is better than an HST. More seats? Better acceleration?

But there is the vibration.

The now almost legendary 2x180 formation (one set with FGW markings scrubbed off the sides) was sitting in Oxford carriage sidings at 10am today, presumably waiting to work the 10.30 to Paddington.