Title: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BBM on June 16, 2016, 18:56:20 https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/743501186473525248 (https://twitter.com/GWRHelp/status/743501186473525248)
Quote GWR Help @GWRHelp No trains in or out of Paddington at the moment because of a partially derailed non-passenger train. http://www.wnxxforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12381 (http://www.wnxxforum.co.uk/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=12381) Quote Full details still awaited but appears to related to Turbo unit forming 3H52 16+25 Reading TCD to Paddington outside platform 1. NR advise "numerous track circuit failures in the station throat area and possible damage to overhead masts." Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 16, 2016, 19:23:01 Update from Paddington: don't come here. It's a mess. No staff on concourse naturally.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Ollie on June 16, 2016, 19:35:33 Update from Paddington: don't come here. It's a mess. No staff on concourse naturally. Totally different to what this tweet seems to suggest: Cross Rail @cr_rail 17m17 minutes ago A comment from me that @gwrhelp staff and other front line #GWR doing an excellent job at #Paddington . Good luck and hope nobody hurt 👍👍 Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BBM on June 16, 2016, 19:38:45 The BBC's Tom Edwards has tweeted a photo of the derailed Turbo taken from the rear looking forwards. The photo is at the link below, it appears that the front of the unit has hit an OLE mast which is leaning over:
https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/743510824371748864 (https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/743510824371748864) (The photo is too big to embed I think?) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 19:54:17 Theres a photograph here
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36555082 Its brought down an OLE gantry that spans a few tracks serving Platforms 1-3. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 16, 2016, 19:56:25 The BBC's Tom Edwards has tweeted a photo of the derailed Turbo taken from the rear looking forwards. His next comment says: "Network Rail say empty passenger train passed red signal at Paddington & "trap" points automatically derailed it. " That's on the Link Line, approaching Westbourne Bridge. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 16, 2016, 19:58:05 Update from Paddington: don't come here. It's a mess. No staff on concourse naturally. Totally different to what this tweet seems to suggest: Cross Rail @cr_rail 17m17 minutes ago A comment from me that @gwrhelp staff and other front line #GWR doing an excellent job at #Paddington . Good luck and hope nobody hurt 👍👍 What can I tell you apart from that I disagree. Seemed to me to be relying on tannoy announcements. Maybe I should have said 'additional staff' because I asked how to get to Maidenhead and the option given was go to Waterloo and the reading (2.5hrs) and they might start running back by then. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Ollie on June 16, 2016, 20:13:32 Nick, was more to show the other view. Unfortunately of course there are only so many staff available, but those that are at station will be doing what they can to help.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2016, 20:16:55 The BBC's Tom Edwards has tweeted a photo of the derailed Turbo taken from the rear looking forwards. The photo is at the link below, it appears that the front of the unit has hit an OLE mast which is leaning over: Oh well that's another piece of rolling stock out of action on already over stretched fleet. The 387s and the juice to run them cannot come soon enough.https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/743510824371748864 (https://twitter.com/BBCTomEdwards/status/743510824371748864) (The photo is too big to embed I think?) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 20:19:12 Well all I can say is that I hope the driver is OK as the cab seems to have hit the OLE upright head on.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2016, 20:19:36 I take it the only reason we haven't heard from TaplowGreen on this one is because he's stuck at Paddington. Thoughts with all those who are and the staff trying to deal with this situation.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2016, 20:20:29 Well all I can say is that I hope the driver is OK as the cab seems to have hit the OLE upright head on. Indeed.Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 16, 2016, 20:50:25 Nick, was more to show the other view. Unfortunately of course there are only so many staff available, but those that are at station will be doing what they can to help. I know, and they have my sympathies on what will be a long night I'm sure. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: bobm on June 16, 2016, 20:55:21 I'm not sure the Waterloo to Reading line will be coping too well given it is Royal Ascot.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2016, 20:56:14 I take it the only reason we haven't heard from TaplowGreen on this one is because he's stuck at Paddington. Thoughts with all those who are and the staff trying to deal with this situation. I thank you for your thoughts.....I am sure they are genuine rather than sarcastic.....I was actually on pretty much the last train out of Paddington before it all went pear shaped.....I am sure GWR's contingency plans will ensure that everyone gets home tonight or at least a hotel bed for those who were travelling long distance. My thoughts are with all those stranded throughout the network by the latest GWR shambles. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 21:18:00 More up to date photograph here:
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ClGStI5WMAAWHu3.jpg:large Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Timmer on June 16, 2016, 21:34:21 I thank you for your thoughts.....I am sure they are genuine rather than sarcastic.... Totally genuine, as they always are when the travelling public, staff and at times of tragedy family are having to deal with a situation when things go wrong on our rail network.Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2016, 21:47:42 GWR Twitter feed seems to have given up responding to stranded passengers.....what are they going to do about all those stranded people? Thoughts on prospects for tomorrow morning service?
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: brizzlechris on June 16, 2016, 21:53:21 It's a very quiet Twitter feed indeed.
Quote Customers travelling beyond Reading today should not attempt to travel from London with us. Your ticket will be valid tomorrow. One reply to an affected customer... Quote Hi Craig, you should travel tomorrow your ticket will be valid -Andy No comments on what you're meant to do through the night... no mention if GWR will reimburse unplanned hotel bills. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 16, 2016, 22:01:50 It's a very quiet Twitter feed indeed. ........surely they're not brass necked enough to start trawling out the usual "we're not responsible for consequential losses" line? Of course this incident would appear to be totally down to GWR, so they'll have more of an eye on cost as they won't have a fat cheque from Network Rail to cover their costs.......down sleeper also cancelled....so what happens to those passengers?Quote Customers travelling beyond Reading today should not attempt to travel from London with us. Your ticket will be valid tomorrow. One reply to an affected customer... Quote Hi Craig, you should travel tomorrow your ticket will be valid -Andy No comments on what you're meant to do through the night... no mention if GWR will reimburse unplanned hotel bills. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 22:15:26 It's a very quiet Twitter feed indeed. ........surely they're not brass necked enough to start trawling out the usual "we're not responsible for consequential losses" line? Of course this incident would appear to be totally down to GWR, so they'll have more of an eye on cost as they won't have a fat cheque from Network Rail to cover their costs.......down sleeper also cancelled....so what happens to those passengers?Quote Customers travelling beyond Reading today should not attempt to travel from London with us. Your ticket will be valid tomorrow. One reply to an affected customer... Quote Hi Craig, you should travel tomorrow your ticket will be valid -Andy No comments on what you're meant to do through the night... no mention if GWR will reimburse unplanned hotel bills. Hang on a minute. Speculation there. We don't know yet if the protecting signal was falsely in the clear to proceed postion. This is called a 'Wrong Side Failure' and I can reassure you that all such incident investigations are held with an open mind. In my (perhaps too long) S&T career I have investigated many incidents like this and you would be very supprised as to the outcome of some of them. :o Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 16, 2016, 22:20:46 Gwr Twitter are advising that travel to Paddington will be affected tomorrow too. Would anyone here like to speculate on the level of impact? As a related question whereabouts was the incident and how did it affect all lines? Thanks.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 16, 2016, 22:24:47 Network rail have confirmed it was a SPAD on their Twitter feed,
Elsewhere online reporting it was a class A SPAD whatever that is. Also is it a design issue having a catch point diverting a train head on into a gantry? Most of the cancellations were attributed to the fallen gantry and not the derailment which isn't obstructing running lines. I notice I can have a lie in and probably be close to late for work. Down sleeper cancelled, I need to be in My office in Truro for 0745. XC service doesn't give me time to do the 25 min walk. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 22:26:40 The incident site is the link line between the Down Sidings and just on the immediate approach to Platform No.1. The empty stock train was approaching Paddington. There are a set of trap points sited to protect the sidings from the main line and the train was derailed on these.
As I stated in a post above I don't think we should speculate as to the reasons why the derailment occurred as there could be several explanations that I can visualise at present. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 16, 2016, 22:26:52 Gwr Twitter are advising that travel to Paddington will be affected tomorrow too. Would anyone here like to speculate on the level of impact? As a related question whereabouts was the incident and how did it affect all lines? Thanks. Probably due to out of place stock. The journey update says all lines closed until 0200. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: brizzlechris on June 16, 2016, 22:27:32 It's a very quiet Twitter feed indeed. ........surely they're not brass necked enough to start trawling out the usual "we're not responsible for consequential losses" line? Of course this incident would appear to be totally down to GWR, so they'll have more of an eye on cost as they won't have a fat cheque from Network Rail to cover their costs.......down sleeper also cancelled....so what happens to those passengers?Quote Customers travelling beyond Reading today should not attempt to travel from London with us. Your ticket will be valid tomorrow. One reply to an affected customer... Quote Hi Craig, you should travel tomorrow your ticket will be valid -Andy No comments on what you're meant to do through the night... no mention if GWR will reimburse unplanned hotel bills. Hang on a minute. Speculation there. We don't know yet if the protecting signal was falsely in the clear to proceed postion. This is called a 'Wrong Side Failure' and I can reassure you that all such incident investigations are held with an open mind. In my (perhaps too long) S&T career I have investigated many incidents like this and you would be very supprised as to the outcome of some of them. :o https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/743514804606894082 Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 22:29:36 It's a very quiet Twitter feed indeed. ........surely they're not brass necked enough to start trawling out the usual "we're not responsible for consequential losses" line? Of course this incident would appear to be totally down to GWR, so they'll have more of an eye on cost as they won't have a fat cheque from Network Rail to cover their costs.......down sleeper also cancelled....so what happens to those passengers?Quote Customers travelling beyond Reading today should not attempt to travel from London with us. Your ticket will be valid tomorrow. One reply to an affected customer... Quote Hi Craig, you should travel tomorrow your ticket will be valid -Andy No comments on what you're meant to do through the night... no mention if GWR will reimburse unplanned hotel bills. Hang on a minute. Speculation there. We don't know yet if the protecting signal was falsely in the clear to proceed postion. This is called a 'Wrong Side Failure' and I can reassure you that all such incident investigations are held with an open mind. In my (perhaps too long) S&T career I have investigated many incidents like this and you would be very supprised as to the outcome of some of them. :o https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/743514804606894082 I don't have access to Twitter (nor want to) but personally I think they have gone a bit too far there as I think its a bit early to be publishing things like that. Lets wait and see the RAIB press release first. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 16, 2016, 22:36:11 Network rail have confirmed it was a SPAD on their Twitter feed, Elsewhere online reporting it was a class A SPAD whatever that is. A Catergory 'A' SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) is one caused by driver error or rolling stock defect. A Catergory 'B' SPAD is caused by a signalling equipment failure where a cleared signal reverts to danger in an uncontrolled manner and a train passes it at danger in consequence. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 16, 2016, 22:43:32 Network rail have confirmed it was a SPAD on their Twitter feed, Elsewhere online reporting it was a class A SPAD whatever that is. A Catergory 'A' SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) is one caused by driver error. A Catergory 'B' SPAD is caused by a signalling equipment failure where a signal reverts to danger in an uncontrolled manner and a train passes it at danger in consequence. In that case no further discussion should be had around that element as potentially someone's lively hood at stake, it's mentioned on the above linked Twitter feed about it being a class A. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: CJB666 on June 17, 2016, 00:39:18 All services cancelled and no bus / coach / taxi alternatives.
https://twitter.com/networkrailPR/status/743514804606894082 And the reason why the train went through a red light at Paddington was .... ?? At least it didn't catch fire. Hmm - shades of Thames Trains maybe. So instead of the brakes being applied the damn thing was derailed bringing down all of the power lines and closing all services for the rest of the day - right in the middle of the rush-hour, and the disruption will likely extend to all of tomorrow morning. Apparently even the Circle Line and H&C were stopped from running between Paddington and Hammersmith. GWR staff on the Concourse did a fine job at Paddington dealing with thousands of pi$$ed off commuters etc. Many were told to go to Ealing Broadway where - they were informed - trains would be running to / from the West. BUT ... at Ealing Broadway there were NO trains and pax were told to go to Waterloo instead. Er - right hand and left hand etc.? No alternative buses or taxis appear to have been arranged - even for those needing to catch flights at Heathrow. The HConn and Hex of course couldn't run since the power lines were down. And as we all know the Bakerloo Line wasn't stopping at Paddington; and the road works in Praed Street ensure that buses are not stopping at Paddington either. Indeed the bus drivers (23, 27, 205, etc.) appear to be all refusing to stop anywhere near Paddington Station and are running non-stop between the Edgware Road end of Sussex Gardens and the far end of Eastbourne Terrace - a distance of over a mile. So all in all one huge chaos from right hands and left hands not knowing what the h*ll was going on - Network Rail, GWR, Heathrow - Hex, T4L - buses, all clearly demonstrating utter incompetence at dealing with the situation. All par for the course. And all due to a SPAD and a weird arrangement to derail a train directly into the overhead line gantries rather than simply apply the brakes. More and pics here: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3645496/Rush-hour-chaos-London-s-Paddington-station-train-derailment-stops-thousands-going-home.html CJB P.S. The last major outage at Paddington was when a steam special left platform 1 and headed off for a day out West. Meanwhile Network Rail - more likely their incompetent contractors - were digging around and laying new track and ballast underneath one of the major road bridges across the entrance to Paddington Station. In so doing they raised the profile of the track. So when said steam train returned the chimney and boiler of the engine hit the underside of the bridge nearly causing a catastrophic boiler explosion. Luckily the driver brought the whole shebang to a halt, but all services into and out of Paddington were cancelled just in case. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: a-driver on June 17, 2016, 00:55:02 All comes down to cost.
The train came from a siding where there are catch points which are designed to derail the train. A system whereby the train brakes are automatically applied may not have stopped the train in time before it fouled another line where potentially another train could be moving Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: CJB666 on June 17, 2016, 01:11:56 All comes down to cost. The train came from a siding where there are catch points which are designed to derail the train. A system whereby the train brakes are automatically applied may not have stopped the train in time before it fouled another line where potentially another train could be moving Ah - cost - of course. Yes - get catch points to derail a train straight into a supporting gantry of power-lines carrying thousands of volts - just enough to cause a major fire of spilt diesel fuel. Ah - but we had that a few years ago didn't we? It appears that lessons have not been learnt. It doesn't exactly enhance any feelings of safety when such an incident occurs - by deliberate design. I wonder what the cost for all this will be? And I might put in a Freedom of Information estimate as to the costs to thousands of intending Heathrow passengers who have missed their flights and the ensuing consequences due to the incompetence of Network Rail / Crossrail and their contractors with regards to all of the stoppages over the last five years or so. CJB Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 05:24:00 Some lines now open, but hourlys to Wales & Bristol & no Cheltenhams this morning
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 17, 2016, 05:40:26 Some lines now open, but hourlys to Wales & Bristol & no Cheltenhams this morning Also the Bedwyns starting at Reading. Information in more detail: Quote Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Reading Due to a train derailment yesterday between London Paddington and Reading fewer trains are able to run on some lines. Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 30 mins or revised. Disruption is expected until 02:00 18/06. * Customer Advice An empty train derailed in a siding outside London Paddington station at approximately 18:15 on 16/06/2016. This has resulted in damage to infrastructure which means that we are unable to operate a full train service between Reading and London Paddington until further notice. Customers travelling in and out of London Paddington are advised to check travel details before their journey. Passengers may encounter delays and cancellations to services until further notice. Great Western Railway ticket holders may travel on Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, South West Trains, London Underground via any reasonable route in order to complete their journey. Customers seeking to travel between Reading & London Waterloo are advised that with Royal Ascot Races taking place today that they should seek to avoid travel via that route but travel via Guildford or Basingstoke instead. Heathrow Express will accept pre-booked Heathrow Connect tickets only. Chiltern Railways, Cross Country, South West Trains, Transport for London and London Underground are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. * Further Information An update will follow within the next 1 hour. Last Updated:17/06/2016 05:31 Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 05:43:25 Network rail have confirmed it was a SPAD on their Twitter feed, Elsewhere online reporting it was a class A SPAD whatever that is. A Catergory 'A' SPAD (Signal Passed At Danger) is one caused by driver error. A Catergory 'B' SPAD is caused by a signalling equipment failure where a signal reverts to danger in an uncontrolled manner and a train passes it at danger in consequence. In that case no further discussion should be had around that element as potentially someone's lively hood at stake, it's mentioned on the above linked Twitter feed about it being a class A. I'd rather a "livelihood" a stake than lives if,as it seems, this is the case? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 17, 2016, 06:09:29 I would be pretty sure the RAIB will be taking a look at this.
Safe to say "looks like a Class A SPAD"; surprised at stating that it IS such, or is there a shorthand in the SPAD text for "appears like"? I know there are automatic checks for bulb failures, etc, but there remains a small 'unconfirmed' element. I am minded of an unfortunate incident reported on here she a car was hit on a level crossing ... 'we' we quick to blame the driver but it turned out to be a signalling operation issue. I'd rather a "livelihood" a stake than lives if,as it seems, this is the case? Totally agreed, except it's not a comparison / tradeoff. If immediate discussion here saved lives at the cost of putting someone out of work, I would be saying "go for it". Not sure that's what you were saying, though?? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: CJB666 on June 17, 2016, 08:04:42 No trains at Paddington due to a deliberate derailment after a driver passed a red signal - a SPAD incident; no buses / coaches / taxis laid on for passengers to Heathrow; no Bakerloo Line at Paddington due to planned engeering works for Crossrail; no buses at Paddington due to road works in Praed Street and no temporary bus stops between Sussex Gardens and Eastbourne Terrace with the drivers refusing to stop near the Station; and no contingency plans by anyone. Mostly owned by get rich quick foreigners. New Britain at its best - not.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 08:07:31 I thought we were calmly debating this in another topic. Job for the moderators I think....... ::) :P
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Oxonhutch on June 17, 2016, 08:08:21 Have just seen the mess this morning coming in on 1A02. I have to admit, I have never seen so much train off so much track and the damage to the overhead is considerable with the OHL brought down dangerously* close to the track. (* dangerous when live that was).
Opentime trains for Paddington still shows 3H52 (ECS for 1813 Henley train) at signal SN6004 and the whole of the old departure side of the station (platforms 1 - 5) closed. Looks like it will take a concerted effort over the weekend to clear that lot up. Hope the driver is OK - the cab was all sheeted over this morning. I noticed that all local services are maximum 3 car today to make maximum use of the high numbered platforms, particularly p. 13 and many early down services west of Reading were cancelled. Ironically, my arrival today was one of the earliest in the whole week. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: CJB666 on June 17, 2016, 08:09:42 Information in more detail:
Quote Customers seeking to travel between Reading & London Waterloo are advised that with Royal Ascot Races taking place today that they should seek to avoid travel via that route but travel via Guildford or Basingstoke instead. Useless advice. How on earth are passengers going to get to / from London and Reading via Guildford or Basingstoke? At least SWT trains are usually 8-10 carriages long and can accommodate hundreds unlike the FGWs locals. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 17, 2016, 08:11:46 Some lines now open, but hourlys to Wales & Bristol & no Cheltenhams this morning Also the Bedwyns starting at Reading. Information in more detail: Quote Cancellations to services between London Paddington and Reading Due to a train derailment yesterday between London Paddington and Reading fewer trains are able to run on some lines. Train services running to and from these stations may be cancelled, delayed by up to 30 mins or revised. Disruption is expected until 02:00 18/06. * Customer Advice An empty train derailed in a siding outside London Paddington station at approximately 18:15 on 16/06/2016. This has resulted in damage to infrastructure which means that we are unable to operate a full train service between Reading and London Paddington until further notice. Customers travelling in and out of London Paddington are advised to check travel details before their journey. Passengers may encounter delays and cancellations to services until further notice. Great Western Railway ticket holders may travel on Chiltern Railways, CrossCountry, South West Trains, London Underground via any reasonable route in order to complete their journey. Customers seeking to travel between Reading & London Waterloo are advised that with Royal Ascot Races taking place today that they should seek to avoid travel via that route but travel via Guildford or Basingstoke instead. Heathrow Express will accept pre-booked Heathrow Connect tickets only. Chiltern Railways, Cross Country, South West Trains, Transport for London and London Underground are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. Arriva Trains Wales and London Midland are conveying passengers via any reasonable route until further notice. * Further Information An update will follow within the next 1 hour. Last Updated:17/06/2016 05:31 What really surprised me about this was there was no mention of it on the morning BBC breakfast local news travel update. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: trainer on June 17, 2016, 08:36:58 What really surprised me about this was there was no mention of it on the morning BBC breakfast local news travel update. There was on BBC Wales opt out in the Breakfast programme at 8:30. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 08:38:38 I got the 0624 from Taplow this morning, on time but only 3 coaches, quite surprising in the circumstances......packed to the gunwhales from Hayes, hardly anyone could get on at Southall which caused a lot of friction on the platform (no sign of any staff, driver had to get off and sort the doors), set off from there about 10 mins late, additional stops at Hanwell/West Ealing futile in the context of anyone being able to get on........I await this evening with trepidation.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 08:41:01 I would be pretty sure the RAIB will be taking a look at this. Safe to say "looks like a Class A SPAD"; surprised at stating that it IS such, or is there a shorthand in the SPAD text for "appears like"? I know there are automatic checks for bulb failures, etc, but there remains a small 'unconfirmed' element. I am minded of an unfortunate incident reported on here she a car was hit on a level crossing ... 'we' we quick to blame the driver but it turned out to be a signalling operation issue. I'd rather a "livelihood" a stake than lives if,as it seems, this is the case? Totally agreed, except it's not a comparison / tradeoff. If immediate discussion here saved lives at the cost of putting someone out of work, I would be saying "go for it". Not sure that's what you were saying, though?? The Press this morning are stating that it was caused by a train going through a red signal due to Driver error and are citing Network Rail as their source. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: a-driver on June 17, 2016, 09:05:59 All comes down to cost. The train came from a siding where there are catch points which are designed to derail the train. A system whereby the train brakes are automatically applied may not have stopped the train in time before it fouled another line where potentially another train could be moving Ah - cost - of course. Yes - get catch points to derail a train straight into a supporting gantry of power-lines carrying thousands of volts - just enough to cause a major fire of spilt diesel fuel. Ah - but we had that a few years ago didn't we? It appears that lessons have not been learnt. It doesn't exactly enhance any feelings of safety when such an incident occurs - by deliberate design. I wonder what the cost for all this will be? And I might put in a Freedom of Information estimate as to the costs to thousands of intending Heathrow passengers who have missed their flights and the ensuing consequences due to the incompetence of Network Rail / Crossrail and their contractors with regards to all of the stoppages over the last five years or so. CJB It is by deliberate design. Catch points designed to derail trains are usually found coming out of sidings because of the low speeds involved. If you had a rake of carriages or wagons in that siding, and for some reason, they started to roll away, catch points and deliberately derailing the runaway vehicles would be the only way to stop the movement. TPWS would be totally ineffective. In the derailment yesterday, if TPWS was installed on that signal there is a possibility it won't have stopped the train in time before it fouled another line potentially causing a collision with another train. As for the wires coming down, this happens quite often with electric trains. In fact I've had wires carrying 25,000 volts laying on top of my train before and I'm still here to tell the tale. The risk to any passenger yesterday was minimal. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 09:17:35 Indeed. But a moot point to discuss surely is whether the catch points & track layout ought to have been redesigned when putting up the stanchions etc for electrification? Surely they could still work *without* bringing them down? Is this an example of what happens when projects are done cheaper than they should be?
A goodly sum in compensation being paid by GWR to NR & HEX this time around. I'm assuming that GWR will be declaring void days on this? To save the processing of thousands of claims Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 09:28:18 If the driver has held his hand up & GWR have communicated that to NR, with all the delays being attributed to NR these days, I suspect NR wanted to get this one apportioned quickly.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: a-driver on June 17, 2016, 09:34:23 True, but how much did speed did that stanchion absorb? I know its not its job, and it probably wasn't even considered when the line was electrified but where would that unit have ended up if the stanchion had not been there. It'll be interesting to read the outcome of the investigation and the recommendations made. It could prove very costly if a review and changes are needed to catch points up and down the country.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: plymothian on June 17, 2016, 09:40:10 A little day out in London turned in to an epic battle yesterday.
Arrived at Paddington at 1930 for the 1945. Announcements at Lancaster Gate Tube stated no services running from Paddington and to call NRE, but that's pretty much useless if you don't know what's going on. Only advice given was you need to get to Reading via Waterloo. Left PAD at 1950 to find the Tube in disarray, so travelled via Earl's Court and Westminster to get to Waterloo - staff at Waterloo were clueless in any alternatives (especially having missed the 1945 to Exeter). The 2050 was the only train advertised to Reading, which naturally then lost time and left loads of people behind at every stop. Arrived Reading at 22.23ish. All this time no one knew if there would actually be any trains waiting at Reading, and typically Paddington had by now partially reopened. Every question posed to staff - no matter what destination - was answered with "about 20 minutes - wait for announcements". However, true to their word for once, trains actually did start to be organised within 20 minutes! Left Reading at 23.10ish on a surprisingly lightly loaded train to Plymouth, but ended up being kicked out at Exeter St David's due to lack of onward train crew, on to the - literally - following service and arrived at 02.40ish. No mention of compensation available at any time, so I mentioned it to nearby passengers, who were surprised they could even get compensation for delays. Loads of people were seeking hotels, taxis etc, for which they would not be entitled for reimbursement. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BBM on June 17, 2016, 09:49:59 What really surprised me about this was there was no mention of it on the morning BBC breakfast local news travel update. There was on BBC Wales opt out in the Breakfast programme at 8:30. The BBC London local opt-out at 0755 led with the news of the derailment but in the travel section the presenter said that there was no service into or out of Paddington even though the on-screen caption said 'limited service'. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 17, 2016, 09:51:19 True, but how much did speed did that stanchion absorb? I know its not its job, and it probably wasn't even considered when the line was electrified but where would that unit have ended up if the stanchion had not been there. It'll be interesting to read the outcome of the investigation and the recommendations made. It could prove very costly if a review and changes are needed to catch points up and down the country. Assuming the catch points were there long before the stanchion, it is fair to ask if their "operation" should have been reviewed. I suspect that somewhere in the huge volume of engineering standards is a requirements to do just that - triggered by any change in the area a derailed train might end up in. However, it would be background task, and it seems no-one ever got round to doing it. In the case of this link line and those two sidings, you do wonder if it would have been more sensible to reclassify them as loops and the line as operational track. You might lose the capability to park trains (i.e. unattended) there, but is that actually useful? You could still hold trains in them, and it's not like Paddington has no other sidings for storing stock. The link line only leads to platform 1 in any case, which looks very limited in its usefulness. I'm sure it could contribute more to operations if its connections were changed. Is there any plan for that (I've not seen any)? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 10:01:51 True, but how much did speed did that stanchion absorb? If coming from a shortish siding, surely not that much?.... edit - or was it using the link line? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 17, 2016, 10:05:55 If the driver has held his hand up & GWR have communicated that to NR, with all the delays being attributed to NR these days, I suspect NR wanted to get this one apportioned quickly. Surely the driver's first duty is to contact the signaller, via cab radio or whatever else works. There may even have been other NR staff close by. The signaller's first concern will be to ask things like: Does your train pose a danger to other lines? Did you observe a signalling fault? Is your train stable or likely to fall over/catch fire/etc.? So NR probably knew before GWR. As it happens, the state of the OLE would stop the trains in any case, though there may not be a scripted question asking exactly that. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 10:11:20 Indeed.
My post was written assuming the driver was AOK physically & would talk to his bosses etc fairly quickly, and maybe admitted passing at red then. It could be quite quickly confirmed to NR from GWR, never mind what communications the driver & signaller had. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Oxonhutch on June 17, 2016, 10:12:02 Quote If coming from a shortish siding, surely not that much?.... edit - or was it using the link line? In a photograph taken from the overbridge that was linked to in the Infrastructure thread, there is a 25mph speed sign for the link line in the opposite direction to which the train ran. There is also quite a distance between the exit signals for the two sidings SN6006/8 and the link line exit signal SN6004 after which the derailment occurred. Edit: Looking at the Sectional Appendix (maps GW103-001/2) the line speed on the link line and the two sidings is 25mph. Hard to tell from the SA but the link line could be 20 chains long, i.e. a quarter mile. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: paul7575 on June 17, 2016, 10:15:56 Assuming the catch points were there long before the stanchion, it is fair to ask if their "operation" should have been reviewed. I suspect that somewhere in the huge volume of engineering standards is a requirements to do just that - triggered by any change in the area a derailed train might end up in. However, it would be background task, and it seems no-one ever got round to doing it. Something I've wondered about in the past, but when I've seen instances where it looks risky I've just thought it must be part of their overall planning or risk assessment process. There's a good example south of Botley station, where the single line section starts. From a passing train it looks as though anything running through the catch points at a reasonable speed will take out the local DC power huts one by one... Paul Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 17, 2016, 10:17:49 What really surprised me about this was there was no mention of it on the morning BBC breakfast local news travel update. There was on BBC Wales opt out in the Breakfast programme at 8:30. The BBC London local opt-out at 0755 led with the news of the derailment but in the travel section the presenter said that there was no service into or out of Paddington even though the on-screen caption said 'limited service'. The last opt-out for BBC South did cover this but only very briefly in between the "Weather" bit and the "Shuffling of script papers and saying good bye" bit. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: plymothian on June 17, 2016, 10:20:24 In a situation like this the driver would have made a GSM-R REC and requested an Emergency Switch Off.
The REC stops all movements immediately, and the ESO cuts all power - so Paddington to the limit of the OHLE is up the creek anyway. Any questioning by the signaller beyond that is primarily organising emergency response and secondary restoring any service. You never know the driver might have stated "This is an Emergency Call etc... I have SPADed SN6004..." Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 17, 2016, 10:45:49 Looking at the picture in this BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36555082), you can see that the catch points didn't even do their job of protecting the following points. The train does appear to be lying foul of Platform 1 approach line.
(http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/936/cpsprodpb/5BAE/production/_90007432_074efd66-8795-42c0-8f20-37d70c8804cc.jpg) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Sam290893 on June 17, 2016, 10:59:43 Disruption is set to go into the weekend :( last night sounded bad at Paddington and apparently reading was chaos too!
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: paul7575 on June 17, 2016, 11:09:44 I thought we were calmly debating this in another topic. Job for the moderators I think....... ::) :P That other thread is a bit of a catch all for infrastructure failures, I don't think this is one of those. I do prefer plain English though, why can't it just be a 'derailment' rather than a 'total outage'? Paul Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 11:13:06 It's a "derailment" that initially led to a "total outage" of services. Seems reasonable
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: johoare on June 17, 2016, 11:30:33 I was at Paddington shortly after midnight (would have been earlier but I got caught out by the buses refusing to stop anywhere near Paddington trick).. The first member of staff I spoke to helpfully told me I wouldn't get home till this morning. But then I asked a much more helpful lady who took me to the taxi rank where taxis were taking people home by that point and shared a ride back with four other people.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 12:19:55 Looking at the picture in this BBC report (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36555082), you can see that the catch points didn't even do their job of protecting the following points. The train does appear to be lying foul of Platform 1 approach line. ...err no its not. The trap points did the job they were designed to do which is to divert the train away from a running line. The track under the train is the connection from the sidings to Platform No.1 and the line and points immediately to the right are the running connection from Line 1 to Platform No.1 and the derailed train is not foul of that. In any case when a train is derailed on trap points a special detector mechanism called a 'Track Circuit Interrupter' breaks a circuit to place to danger all signals for train movements that could potentially conflict. Good to see in that report that the driver was apparently not hurt. I also note other comments about the OLE structure being in the way. If I remember correctly (not at work today to be able to check) there must be no obstructions within 50m of the trap points. Looking at the position of the OLE structure and using the train length as a guide I think it travelled more than that so the OLE structure would have been in a correctly designed and risk assessed postion (but thats just my personal opinion based on many years of designing track layouts and the associated signalling). Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: rower40 on June 17, 2016, 12:21:39 The link line only leads to platform 1 in any case, which looks very limited in its usefulness. I'm sure it could contribute more to operations if its connections were changed. Is there any plan for that (I've not seen any)? Crank up the Way-back machine...There used to be a set of points giving access from the Royal Oak sidings to line 1 at signal SN26, which meant that the Royal Oak sidings could access platforms 2-5 via line 1, as well as platform 1 via the link line. After the post-Ladbroke-Grove remodeling, when all sorts of bells and whistles (TPWS, SPAD detection and mitigation etc) were added to the interlocking, some "space" was needed in the computer logic; so these points and their associated routes were removed. Now that the SSI (solid-state-interlocking) has been replaced by a more-processing-power Smartlock, there's "room" to re-instate these routes and points. The points are shown as being re-instated (although clipped & padlocked) at Christmas 2016; I don't know when the routes over them will be re-commissioned. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 17, 2016, 12:30:10 I have just been down to Thatcham station to buy a weekly ticket for next week. The ever helpful Peter was out manning the ramps so whilst waiting I heard one customer say to another something like "I'm not sure we would be boarding this train following the recent derailment"
OK now I will be the first to admit I don't know why the initial SPAD occurred but I am now wiser as to what an "Automatic Derailment" or whatever it is called is so I shared my apparent expertise with them. Having taken that in they seemed to be happy with things and went on their way. Maybe I shouldn't have interfered ! Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Thatcham Crossing on June 17, 2016, 12:40:39 Is that some OHLE wires resting on the roof of the train? :o
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 17, 2016, 12:51:20 Would this train have formed the 18.18 Oxford service? I'm intrigued because a) thats my regular train and b) I'd already had a text yesterday saying that it would be 3 rather than 6 coaches due to 'higher number of necessary repairs'.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 12:54:42 Wasn't it incoming ECS for the Henley service? I think I read that somewhere.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: paul7575 on June 17, 2016, 12:56:14 It's a "derailment" that initially led to a "total outage" of services. Seems reasonable I don't even like the word 'outage'. Isn't there a better English word for that? It must have been serious though, because it caused CJB666 to remember to cross post into this forum, which he only does quite rarely... ;D Paul Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 17, 2016, 12:56:44 ...err no its not. The trap points did the job they were designed to do which is to divert the train away from a running line. The track under the train is the connection from the sidings to Platform No.1 and the line and points immediately to the right are the running connection from Line 1 to Platform No.1 and the derailed train is not foul of that. In any case when a train is derailed on trap points a special detector mechanism called a 'Track Circuit Interrupter' breaks a circuit to place to danger all signals for train movements that could potentially conflict. ... You may be right, in the sense that trains aren't wide enough to actually touch it. There is the usual difficulty of judging perspective at oblique view angles. But I still think it's closer the the protected line than the "design" of the catch points would call for. And yes, the distance it ran is clearly the reason for its ending up there, but that too is part of that "design". In fact, on reflection, it could have been far worse. That stanchion took a lot of energy out of the train, so if it (the train) had been just a fraction of a metre less off line and hit a glancing blow it could have got a lot further and been pushed back outwards. And, given that the obvious reason for the signal to be red is that Platform 1 is still occupied, or its train is just coming out, a collision is quite possible. Given how busy Paddington is, automatically setting signals to danger leaves a significant residual risk. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 13:02:58 Indeed, and purely for clarification, although those too are my initials, that is *not* me.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BBM on June 17, 2016, 13:29:13 Evening Standard's report of yesterday's chaos for passengers:
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/paddington-delays-moment-city-worker-handcuffed-amid-rush-hour-chaos-after-train-derailment-a3274041.html (http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/paddington-delays-moment-city-worker-handcuffed-amid-rush-hour-chaos-after-train-derailment-a3274041.html) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 13:37:16 Quote A Network Rail spokesman said the driver of the derailed train had not been hurt and it was “too early†to speculate about why the train had jumpped [sic] the red light. No sympathy for the City worker though. Whatever happened, it is extremely unlikely to be anything to do with whoever he 'spoke' to. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: eightf48544 on June 17, 2016, 13:49:08 Some interesting points re trap points and where the derailed trains end up.
I can recall an incident many moons ago when a freight train demolished the relay room at Rushcombe Junction (Twyford) when it failed to stop at the end of the Up Goods loop (long since removed). The relay room was not rebuilt on the same site. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 13:52:53 To answer (either in this thread or the LTV disruptions thread) a couple of queries - which train was it and other details - this from uk.rail newsgroup
Quote 3H52 ECS Reading to Paddington normally hangs over at Old Oak Reception Sidings for 20 minutes before proceeding to PAD platform 1, due 1754. Yesterday it skipped the hangover and so approached platform 1 20 minutes early, i.e. well before 1G60, the 1742 HST to Cheltenham Spa was due to leave platform 1. Now how could that sequence of events happen? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 14:33:07 Current alternative routes and ticket acceptances can be found on this link
http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/images/content/GWR_alternative_routes.pdf Elsewhere, the London Fire Brigade have tweeted 'no one hurt last night' and NR tweeted that the train will not be moved until 2200 tonight to allow as much access to the station as possible this evening. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: chrisr_75 on June 17, 2016, 14:54:51 Quote A Network Rail spokesman said the driver of the derailed train had not been hurt and it was “too early†to speculate about why the train had jumpped [sic] the red light. No sympathy for the City worker though. Whatever happened, it is extremely unlikely to be anything to do with whoever he 'spoke' to. Indeed, good to see BTP taking some action with these idiots who take out their frustrations on members of staff who probably know little more than the passengers they're trying to help. Yes it's annoying but it is no reason to abuse a fellow human being. Equally encouraging that most quoted people's attitude was not of consternation and anger, but resignation Along the lines of 'these things happen, nothing I can do about it so I will just go with the flow'. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 15:03:16 The link line only leads to platform 1 in any case, which looks very limited in its usefulness. I'm sure it could contribute more to operations if its connections were changed. Is there any plan for that (I've not seen any)? Crank up the Way-back machine...There used to be a set of points giving access from the Royal Oak sidings to line 1 at signal SN26, which meant that the Royal Oak sidings could access platforms 2-5 via line 1, as well as platform 1 via the link line. After the post-Ladbroke-Grove remodeling, when all sorts of bells and whistles (TPWS, SPAD detection and mitigation etc) were added to the interlocking, some "space" was needed in the computer logic; so these points and their associated routes were removed. Now that the SSI (solid-state-interlocking) has been replaced by a more-processing-power Smartlock, there's "room" to re-instate these routes and points. The points are shown as being re-instated (although clipped & padlocked) at Christmas 2016; I don't know when the routes over them will be re-commissioned. From what I have been hearing through another related project I'm working on at present its likely to be commissioned at Easter or Xmas 2017. There is a big Solid State Interlocking data rewrite update at Xmas 2016 and thats taxing enough to commission without adding other work to it. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 15:09:11 Quote A Network Rail spokesman said the driver of the derailed train had not been hurt and it was “too early†to speculate about why the train had jumpped [sic] the red light. No sympathy for the City worker though. Whatever happened, it is extremely unlikely to be anything to do with whoever he 'spoke' to. Couldn't agree more - his behaviour is as despicable and inexcusable as the situation in which he and tens of thousands of others found themselves in through no fault of their own - doesn't excuse threatening violence however. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 15:17:50 ...err no its not. The trap points did the job they were designed to do which is to divert the train away from a running line. The track under the train is the connection from the sidings to Platform No.1 and the line and points immediately to the right are the running connection from Line 1 to Platform No.1 and the derailed train is not foul of that. In any case when a train is derailed on trap points a special detector mechanism called a 'Track Circuit Interrupter' breaks a circuit to place to danger all signals for train movements that could potentially conflict. ... You may be right, in the sense that trains aren't wide enough to actually touch it. There is the usual difficulty of judging perspective at oblique view angles. But I still think it's closer the the protected line than the "design" of the catch points would call for. And yes, the distance it ran is clearly the reason for its ending up there, but that too is part of that "design". In fact, on reflection, it could have been far worse. That stanchion took a lot of energy out of the train, so if it (the train) had been just a fraction of a metre less off line and hit a glancing blow it could have got a lot further and been pushed back outwards. And, given that the obvious reason for the signal to be red is that Platform 1 is still occupied, or its train is just coming out, a collision is quite possible. Given how busy Paddington is, automatically setting signals to danger leaves a significant residual risk. I made my statement based upon the evidence in the photograph of where the wheels of the first bogie ended up. The train is not foul of the Line 1 to Platform No.1 connection. However, I can only give my personal opinion here as I do live some 250 miles from the incident site and can only express that statement from what I can see in the photographs that have been published so far. I also think that train speed at time of collision with the OLE mast was quite low as there is only limited damage to the fibreglass front end. That design of OLE mast seems to be quite lightweight so probably quite flexible when hit. Some 40 years ago I remember attending a high speed derailment that hit two such masts and there wasn't much left of them afterwards (now where is Electric Train when you need him ;) ). Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 17, 2016, 15:19:13 The points to derail are reportedly some 100m back from the gantry. No obstacles permitted within 50 m of such points.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on June 17, 2016, 15:32:26 Seems as if that rule needs updating?...
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 15:38:26 Seems as if that rule needs updating?... Maybe, but then you will never be able to protect against every eventuality, but one way to achieve it would be not to run any trains, thats why these things are subject to Risk Assessment and subject to the well practised ALARP (As Low As Reasonably Practicible) principle applied by all safety critical industries. Before I put my 'Approval' signature against new or altered signalling layout plans I need to ensure myself first that due process has been demonstrated. Checking to ensure the output of the layout risk assessment process has been thouroughly carried out and ALARP has been achieved is a key component of that. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 17, 2016, 17:41:40 Still a mess at Paddington this evening with a lot of cancellations. BTP on the concourse along with increased GWR staff.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 18:21:28 Still a mess at Paddington this evening with a lot of cancellations. BTP on the concourse along with increased GWR staff. I bailed out of work at 4pm in anticipation of that being the case - got back to Paddington to see most trains delayed or cancelled but managed to get on an Oxford stopper at about 1630 - only 3 carriages so sardines and left about 15 mins late but got to Slough and the connection for Taplow was right behind us so I was lucky - not so lucky are people going longer distance I fear - Friday evening is bad enough already in terms of overcrowding without loads of services being cancelled - good luck all! Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 17, 2016, 20:52:07 I remain fully aware of two thread - and aware of repeated notifications to that effect. Somehow the two thread, same topic stuff feels trivial tonight - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17162.msg197342#msg197342 . I'll sort it in the morning. In the meantime, please feel free to carry on posting in this thread.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: tomL on June 17, 2016, 20:57:18 As a 'casual' traveller I'm not used to being caught up in major disruption like this (guess I've been lucky) but the mood did seem relatively calm travelling from Oxford to Swindon (with an extensive wait at Didcot for a train west). Really couldn't fault GWR people on the ground.
- When an 'express' to Reading arrived the DM at Oxford endorsed my ticket to go to Reading, didn't need it in the end though as a Didcot call was added last minute. - Staff at Oxford, Didcot and Swindon were out and about checking up on us all personally in waiting rooms and on platforms, as opposed to sticking to over air announcements. Managed to help a few people out with plans using the real time signalling maps on sites like OpenTrainTimes too. People were happy to know "train has started its journey, so its worth waiting for now" and the like. It's times like these knowing the extra information really helps.. ;D An interesting experience none the less, hope it all clears up soon though. :) // end of two cents. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 17, 2016, 21:21:39 The points to derail are reportedly some 100m back from the gantry. No obstacles permitted within 50 m of such points. I've done a check on the latest Signalling Scheme Plan I have access to and the distance from the Trap Points to the OLE support is about 60m. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 17, 2016, 22:02:59 Is that some OHLE wires resting on the roof of the train? :o Those are the Return Conductors (RC) and Earth Wire (EW). The RC is connected to the running rails at specific points and insulated to ensure the current stays in that wire, the EW is the main bonding conductor. As a general note the protection system (trip) acts very quickly it has to operate in less than 200 mS but typically the system used on NR acts in less than 100 mS Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 17, 2016, 22:12:42 Ah - cost - of course. Yes - get catch points to derail a train straight into a supporting gantry of power-lines carrying thousands of volts - just enough to cause a major fire of spilt diesel fuel. Ah - but we had that a few years ago didn't we? It appears that lessons have not been learnt. It doesn't exactly enhance any feelings of safety when such an incident occurs - by deliberate design. I wonder what the cost for all this will be? The fire you refer to I think was Ladbroke Grove, that was not caused by the OLE arcing, the protection works to fast for it to ignite diesel . Yes there are thousands of volts 25 thousand to be precise, there have been no known incidents of passengers or staff coming to harm from the OLE when it has come into contact with train carriage; there may be a load bang and folk my need to change their underpants but they not come to any physical haram form the electrical energy. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 17, 2016, 22:25:01 Journey check now saying disruption till 0200 20/6, unable to run a normal service "until further notice"-whatever that means.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: NickB on June 18, 2016, 00:02:38 Is it too early to start querying how many void days gwr will volunteer for this disruption? My money is on... None.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 18, 2016, 06:31:30 90 cancellations today and 125 service alterations. The joys of being up early means seeing journey check for the whole day, rather than just remainder of seen later.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 18, 2016, 06:51:31 90 cancellations today and 125 service alterations. The joys of being up early means seeing journey check for the whole day, rather than just remainder of seen later. I have to go into London from Thatcham on Monday. I normally leave extra time in case of the odd incident but may have to be extra cautious. Let's see how the weekend pans out. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 18, 2016, 07:59:57 Journey check now saying disruption till 0200 20/6, unable to run a normal service "until further notice"-whatever that means. I wonder if the ORR Inspectorate have released the scene to NR yet? The derailed train its self is not the problem. although it caused the problem! The problem is the OLE structure which is a twin track cantilever which not only registers the wires into plat 2 which would normally be dealt with by pulling the wires out of running with strops and pull lifts; the main problem is this structure J/00/42 is also the counter balance anchor for the crossovers in the area, this is a little more tricky to deal with, I suspect the canopy of plat 1A will be used as a temporary anchor. The damage to the foundation of J/00/42 will need to be assessed once the unit has been recovered new foundation bolts will almost certainly be needed these are normally 22mm dia but can be 32mm. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2016, 08:13:03 Journey check now saying disruption till 0200 20/6, unable to run a normal service "until further notice"-whatever that means. I wonder if the ORR Inspectorate have released the scene to NR yet? The derailed train its self is not the problem. although it caused the problem! The problem is the OLE structure which is a twin track cantilever which not only registers the wires into plat 2 which would normally be dealt with by pulling the wires out of running with strops and pull lifts; the main problem is this structure J/00/42 is also the counter balance anchor for the crossovers in the area, this is a little more tricky to deal with, I suspect the canopy of plat 1A will be used as a temporary anchor. The damage to the foundation of J/00/42 will need to be assessed once the unit has been recovered new foundation bolts will almost certainly be needed these are normally 22mm dia but can be 32mm. .......you took the words right out of my mouth! ;) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Worcester_Passenger on June 18, 2016, 08:26:08 I remain fully aware of two thread - and aware of repeated notifications to that effect. Somehow the two thread, same topic stuff feels trivial tonight - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17162.msg197342#msg197342 . I'll sort it in the morning. In the meantime, please feel free to carry on posting in this thread. A word of praise for your separating of these two threads - well done, and many thanks!Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 18, 2016, 08:37:27 I remain fully aware of two thread - and aware of repeated notifications to that effect. Somehow the two thread, same topic stuff feels trivial tonight - see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=17162.msg197342#msg197342 . I'll sort it in the morning. In the meantime, please feel free to carry on posting in this thread. A word of praise for your separating of these two threads - well done, and many thanks!The thanks are due to Chris from Nailsea - THANK YOU Chris Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 18, 2016, 09:23:03 Journey check now saying disruption till 0200 20/6, unable to run a normal service "until further notice"-whatever that means. I wonder if the ORR Inspectorate have released the scene to NR yet? The derailed train its self is not the problem. although it caused the problem! The problem is the OLE structure which is a twin track cantilever which not only registers the wires into plat 2 which would normally be dealt with by pulling the wires out of running with strops and pull lifts; the main problem is this structure J/00/42 is also the counter balance anchor for the crossovers in the area, this is a little more tricky to deal with, I suspect the canopy of plat 1A will be used as a temporary anchor. The damage to the foundation of J/00/42 will need to be assessed once the unit has been recovered new foundation bolts will almost certainly be needed these are normally 22mm dia but can be 32mm. .......you took the words right out of my mouth! ;) Oh and it should be said the structure anchor bolts are about 1500 to 2000 mm long, the foundation will need diamond core drilling Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Oxonhutch on June 18, 2016, 09:28:18 I forgot to mention on Friday that I saw a Greenford service in the new (and what I thought was the still unfinished) bay - Platform 5 - at West Ealing. Was this use planned or was it brought forward because of the derailment? RTT shows it in use today.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Timmer on June 18, 2016, 09:48:08 Engineering work between Bath and Swindon taking place as planned but the Bristol and Bath to Paddington via the diverted Berks and Hants route no longer running with all services running via Badminton. Bath passengers to/from London advised to travel via Bristol with GWR operating an HST shuttle service between Bath and Bristol.
Journey planners aren't showing this. Instead showing bus to Swindon or travelling via Westbury to join already very busy West of England services. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 18, 2016, 09:51:07 I forgot to mention on Friday that I saw a Greenford service in the new (and what I thought was the still unfinished) bay - Platform 5 - at West Ealing. Was this use planned or was it brought forward because of the derailment? RTT shows it in use today. Certainly a lot of West Ealing terminators ... I suspected they were using the bay! It will be very interesting to see the effect on traffic on the Greenford line of the change. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on June 18, 2016, 10:35:22 Thanks to CfN for reorganising the two threads. No easy task to move such a large number of posts from one thread to another.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 18, 2016, 10:46:51 Thanks for the thanks. :-[
It was indeed something of a challenge - but not perhaps as much of a challenge as fixing the physical damage caused by the incident itself. ;) :D ;D Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: phile on June 18, 2016, 11:08:15 Thanks for the thanks. :-[ It was indeed something of a challenge - but not perhaps as much of a challenge as fixing the physical damage caused by the incident itself. ;) :D ;D Thanks to you and Graham for the task of separating the thread. Appreciate that the longer a double thread or incorrect thread goes on, the worse it is to merge. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2016, 20:51:54 It would be interesting to know what GWR propose offering to their season ticket holders in terms of compensation via void days etc in terms of disruption over the last few days.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ellendune on June 18, 2016, 21:08:10 I see form NR tweets that the offending train has now been re-railed and removed to Old Oak Common
https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/744240821747200001 (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/744240821747200001) https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/744242174670290944 (https://twitter.com/networkrailwest/status/744242174670290944) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 18, 2016, 22:29:24 From the BBC (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36566985):
Quote Derailed London Paddington train is finally moved (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/10A6A/production/_90020286_mediaitem90020285.jpg) Network Rail said engineers would carry on working at the site following the incident. A train that has been stuck on the line at Paddington since Thursday evening causing disruption has been moved, Network Rail have said. The empty train was automatically derailed after passing a red signal outside Paddington. Although the train has been shifted, engineers will continue to work on the site throughout the night to repair damage to the line, Network Rail said. A damaged gantry which the train crashed into was removed earlier. Platforms one to five remain closed at Paddington, and in total Network Rail has so far deployed 50 engineers to work on the incident. Network Rail had originally hoped to remove the train at about 22:00 BST on Friday. (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DE5A/production/_90022965_mediaitem90022641.jpg) The two carriages have been separated and are being placed on the track one at a time (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/471A/production/_90020281_trains.jpg) The damaged gantry which has hit by the train when it derailed was removed earlier this morning A Network Rail spokesperson said earlier that work would be ongoing throughout Saturday now that the "complicated" work to clear electric power cables had been completed. With the train lifted clear, the track will be inspected for damage and the electrical cabling will be reconnected, he said. No timescale has been given for when a full service will be running again. (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/901B/production/_90019863_mediaitem90019861.jpg) The derailed train has severely disrupted services into and out of the station (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/6D12/production/_90022972_traincomp.jpg) Engineers are using a jack to lift the train and move it back on the track Great Western Railway have advised passengers to "travel only if necessary and arrive in plenty of time", although a limited service is running. The derailment has been referred to the Rail Accident Investigation Branch to investigate why the driver passed a red signal. Network Rail has said it will "await the conclusion of the official investigation" before commenting on the cause of the crash. (http://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/DE3B/production/_90019865_mediaitem90019864.jpg) Engineers said clearing the electric power cables safely was "the tricky bit" (http://ichef-1.bbci.co.uk/news/624/cpsprodpb/1AEB/production/_90019860_mediaitem90019859.jpg) Electric power cables will be reconnected after the track is inspected for damage Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 18, 2016, 22:58:40 Network Rails comments re: "awaiting the outcome of the investigation" are interesting bearing in mind that they have already broadcast the fact that it was caused by driver error in passing a red signal!
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: stuving on June 18, 2016, 23:10:46 Network Rails comments re: "awaiting the outcome of the investigation" are interesting bearing in mind that they have already broadcast the fact that it was caused by driver error in passing a red signal! That "cause" only explains why there was an accident on that occasion. It does not explain the amount of damage, and hence of disruption, nor what led the driver to do that, how likely it was, and what would make it less likely in the future. Those will be the RAIB's concern, but NR will be providing much of the information for their investigation. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on June 18, 2016, 23:15:16 Meanwhile,
Quote No timescale has been given for when a full service will be running again. ::) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2016, 06:28:24 Meanwhile, .....an element of normality has returned today to be fair.......lots of cancellations due to staff shortages and "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"........Quote No timescale has been given for when a full service will be running again. ::) Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 19, 2016, 06:41:24 .....an element of normality has returned today to be fair.......lots of cancellations due to staff shortages and "more trains than usual needing repairs at the same time"........ Lots of Heathrow cancellations, but they don't show up on our top-of-page feeds or JourneyCheck. And a least one train will be in for unplanned repair due to running off the catch points and being stopped abruptly by the pole for the electrics. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on June 19, 2016, 07:51:20 The BBC have a video of the rerailing here:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36569006 Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 19, 2016, 08:21:34 The BBC have a video of the rerailing here: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-36569006 It is interesting to see that the lifting gear looks the same as the stuff I was trained on as an apprentice at OOC .............. errrrrrrrrrrrr 4 decades ago :o ;D Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: broadgage on June 19, 2016, 12:31:04 Presumably the new electrification structure will have to go in the same place as the damaged one, since to do otherwise would require redesign.
That would seem to allow a small but real risk of a repeat incident and consequent substantial disruption. Would it be worth installing a barrier to stop any derailed train before it strikes the mast ? perhaps something cheap and simple like a pile of sand bags. Running into a pile of sand bags would stop the train quickly, but NOT as abruptly as striking a steel structure, the risk to the driver would be reduced. Worth considering not just at the site of this mishap, but at any other vulnerable locations ? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on June 19, 2016, 12:46:26 Presumably the new electrification structure will have to go in the same place as the damaged one, since to do otherwise would require redesign. That would seem to allow a small but real risk of a repeat incident and consequent substantial disruption. Would it be worth installing a barrier to stop any derailed train before it strikes the mast ? perhaps something cheap and simple like a pile of sand bags. Running into a pile of sand bags would stop the train quickly, but NOT as abruptly as striking a steel structure, the risk to the driver would be reduced. Worth considering not just at the site of this mishap, but at any other vulnerable locations ? It will need to go roughly in the same place. Also you have to be careful of not engineering to the what if , SandTEngineer has already posted that he believes that the structure is beyond the limit for catch point run through. We need to wait for the RAIB report as to the cause as their recommendations will guide future designs and risk assessments also if operating, maintenance, training etc process need to be changed Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 19, 2016, 19:31:39 I am trying to plan my journey from Reading to Blackfriers tomorrow and need to be there for 9am - anyone have any indications as to how services will be running in the morning or is it wait and see?
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2016, 19:37:00 Have you tried tweeting GWR?
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 19, 2016, 19:40:07 Have you tried tweeting GWR? Nope - I hardly use Twitter but will give it a go. Ta TG Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on June 19, 2016, 19:45:48 Have you tried tweeting GWR? Nope - I hardly use Twitter but will give it a go. Ta TG Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: broadgage on June 19, 2016, 20:00:08 I am trying to plan my journey from Reading to Blackfriers tomorrow and need to be there for 9am - anyone have any indications as to how services will be running in the morning or is it wait and see? Might be better to use the SWT service to Waterloo ? It is very slow, but time is saved by avoiding crossing London on the underground, and more importantly no risk of being stuck on the underground due to LUL problems. Blackfriars is just about walking distance from Waterloo, and taxis are readily available and much more affordable from Waterloo than from Paddington. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: BerkshireBugsy on June 19, 2016, 20:28:51 I am trying to plan my journey from Reading to Blackfriers tomorrow and need to be there for 9am - anyone have any indications as to how services will be running in the morning or is it wait and see? Might be better to use the SWT service to Waterloo ? It is very slow, but time is saved by avoiding crossing London on the underground, and more importantly no risk of being stuck on the underground due to LUL problems. Blackfriars is just about walking distance from Waterloo, and taxis are readily available and much more affordable from Waterloo than from Paddington. Funnily enough I had thought about this - it may be the best option Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: phile on June 19, 2016, 22:33:51 Normal service on GWR resumed today. Heathrow EXPECT to resume tomorrow.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: grahame on June 19, 2016, 22:58:15 Heathrow EXPECT to resume tomorrow. Is that Heathrow EXPRESS or Heathrow CONNECT? I rather like "Heathrow Expect" for a semi-fast ;D Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: phile on June 20, 2016, 09:33:44 Heathrow EXPECT to resume tomorrow. Is that Heathrow EXPRESS or Heathrow CONNECT? I rather like "Heathrow Expect" for a semi-fast ;D Can't remember which one now but both normal anyway now. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on August 19, 2016, 10:01:43 New report suggesting the accident was due to fasting for Ramadan
http://www.standard.co.uk/news/transport/train-derailment-at-paddington-may-have-been-result-of-driver-fasting-for-ramadan-a3324216.html Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2016, 10:08:32 ...may have been a contributing factor....I think is more accurate
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: LiskeardRich on August 19, 2016, 10:20:59 What the RAiB actually said is here, edited due to length, left the Ramadam bit and another bit that concerns me that it says Paddington is too busy for signallers to correctly follow procedure, I assume or hope this is misinterpreted
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paddington-safety-digest/derailment-at-paddington-16-june-2016 Quote , but he had only driven over the link line once during his training, and on one further occasion since qualifying. Among the written special instructions to the signallers at TVSC is one that requires that, when a movement starting from a position-light signal requires to run via another position-light signal before reaching a platform, siding or main aspect signal, the signaller must clear all the intermediate position-light signals in the route first. When it is ‘absolutely essential to route such a movement as far as an intermediate position-light signal only’, the signaller is required to reach a clear understanding with the driver before the movement starts. Managers at TVSC said that strict compliance with this instruction is not possible at Paddington, because the station is very busy. However, the conversation between the signaller and the driver should have resulted in the driver understanding that his train could not enter the station until the 18:12 hrs departure had left. The driver of train 3H52 told RAIB that he had woken during the night before the accident at 02:30 hrs, to eat a light meal, as part of his observance of Ramadan. He went back to bed at 03:30 hrs, slept for a further seven hours before coming on duty at 13:07 hrs, and had not had anything else to eat or drink before the accident occurred. From the evidence available, RAIB is unable to determine whether this interruption to his sleep, and subsequent fasting, was a factor in what happened on this occasion. However, RAIB observes that there is research showing that fasting can affect people’s concentration levels. RSSB has published guidance for the railway industry on the topic in document S220 ‘Effects of fasting on fitness to drive’. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: patch38 on August 19, 2016, 10:50:11 I suspect a large proportion of our esteemed media will skip the fact that Paddington could be perceived to be over-busy and focus on the fasting issue, as the Standard has. I think I could write the Daily Wail headline for you now. :(
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on August 19, 2016, 11:10:26 Quote , but he had only driven over the link line once during his training, and on one further occasion since qualifying. That I think is the main reason, along with the fact that it was noted in the report that the driver had the track layout in his possession, and time to refer to it while awaiting clearance, but didn't familiarise himself with it even though he had only been over that section twice before. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: broadgage on August 19, 2016, 11:30:45 I doubt that lack of food for the time stated would have any noticeable consequences for an individual in normal health and properly nourished beforehand.
I have gone without food for longer than that without any apparent ill effect. I would however be concerned that no fluid was taken for many hours and in very warm weather IIRC. I would suggest that Muslims should consider if full fasting is sensible or prudent when carrying out a safety critical job such as driving a train or other vehicle. Whilst I am not aware of the details, AFAIK the religion does permit of not fasting if so doing could result in or worsen illness. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on August 19, 2016, 12:26:03 Like all these type of incidents there will be more than causal factor. A model used if often referred to as "The Swiss Cheese Model" A causal factor being a hole in a layer of cheese, some holes are larger than others, its when holes in the layers of Swiss cheese line up all the way through represents to incident as seen; prevent of the holes lining up and the incident is averted. the prevention can be deliberate (that's what safety systems do) and then there is the aversion by luck, quick thinking ie good fortune.
Patch38 you are more than likely correct the media and in particular certain parts of the print media will focus on the human factor that being the drivers religion, as it grabs headlines Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Tim on August 19, 2016, 13:36:34 Patch38 you are more than likely correct the media and in particular certain parts of the print media will focus on the human factor that being the drivers religion, as it grabs headlines agreed, It isn't the driver's religion that is relevant. It is the driver's behaviour which may have been motived by his religion. The religion per se is not a problem and of course a strictly observant Muslim might be lower risk for exhibiting other dangerous behaviours such as turning up to work with a hang-over. It is important to keep these things clearly separate and absolutely right and fair to judge, praise or criticise someone on the basis of their behaviour. Doing so on the basis of their belief is much more dodgy. But I would have thought that there was a general requirement for all safety critical job holders to be adequately healthy, rested, fed and watered before starting a shift. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: onthecushions on August 19, 2016, 16:33:19 I don't understand why a signaller in a modern signalling centre should have to clear a route manually. Automatic route setting has been around for years. The down side of a computer system is of course the software. If something has been omitted then....you have to do it the old way.....the rule book is then written to cover the management's tail (whose omission it was). From a Muslim colleague, I learnt that Islam can be quite flexible about the fast. If health etc is involved you don't have to. He always claimed when quizzed, that he was "on jihad against the infidel", (me) and so was exempt! A little chat by the Inspectorate with the Sunni and Shia Imams about the necessity of safety critical staff to stay hydrated etc would do the trick. After all Imams travel by train as well. OTC Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TonyK on August 19, 2016, 19:07:21 Aviation has lots of checks, usually with a snappy acronym. The first check a pilot undertakes before even leaving home is "I'M SAFE" - is my performance likely to be affected by:
Illness / Injury Medication Stress Alcohol Fatigue, and have I Eaten and drunk sufficient to nourish me during the flight I would suggest this list would work well in railway work too. It isn't easy to stay alert with a rumbling stomach and a mind full of thoughts of the next plate of falafels. Ramadan is a movable "feast", following lunar cycles. When it falls in deep mid-winter, even I could manage to fast between sun-up and sun-down. But when it falls in mid-summer, when sparrowfart is at 0447 and sundown at 2127, things are a little different. There is allowance for essential breaking of the fast for safety, but I know devout followers of Islam who would not dream of such a thing under any circumstances. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: SandTEngineer on August 19, 2016, 19:41:50 I don't understand why a signaller in a modern signalling centre should have to clear a route manually. Automatic route setting has been around for years. The down side of a computer system is of course the software. If something has been omitted then....you have to do it the old way.....the rule book is then written to cover the management's tail (whose omission it was). ARS doesn't operate for shunting movements, only for main timetabled signal routes. It was designed to relieve the signaller from having to set main running movement routes and thus allowed him/her to concentrate more on such shunt movements and other things. The trouble here 'might be' that the signallers overall workload is just to great an area to control at any one time when ARS has to be switched off or a train has to run out of pattern and that the ARS is not pre-programmed for #. # My personal opinion only Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Billhere on August 20, 2016, 15:24:08 Yes I would agree with that SandTEngineer.
Many years ago comparisons were made between workloads at various IECC locations around the country and Paddington came out head and shoulders above the others for volume of work, to such as extent that the weekly work station running in manual mode where the Signaller had to route each train as a means of keeping up his knowledge and skills could not be applied on the Paddington position. That info came to me via the Shift Manager just after Slough IECC opened, and was before Heathrow Express started up, which only added more trains into the mix. Stress job when it goes wonky, and not for me. Having said that I have just retired so my knowledge of up to date information will die very quickly. Only been gone a week and haven't given it a thought so it was the right thing to do. Back Desk position now, watching but not taking part ! Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Umberleigh on August 20, 2016, 20:46:06 Can anyone point me to another scenario where it is acceptable for a train driver to be dehydrated and have low blood sugar levels? If the driver of that derailed train had been drunk or hungover the book would've been thrown at him
I do not want to be in a situation whereby my train is at 125mph towards London Paddington and the driver has purposefully allowed himself to get low on fluids and blood sugar. The railways have always been about safety first. Puerile references to the Daily Mail only serve to demonstrate the double-standard at play here. I ask you again: 550 passengers on a high speed train headed for London with a driver who has purposefully deprived himself of fluids and food...? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on August 20, 2016, 22:38:22 Can anyone point me to another scenario where it is acceptable for a train driver to be dehydrated and have low blood sugar levels? If the driver of that derailed train had been drunk or hungover the book would've been thrown at him I do not want to be in a situation whereby my train is at 125mph towards London Paddington and the driver has purposefully allowed himself to get low on fluids and blood sugar. The railways have always been about safety first. Puerile references to the Daily Mail only serve to demonstrate the double-standard at play here. I ask you again: 550 passengers on a high speed train headed for London with a driver who has purposefully deprived himself of fluids and food...? If the cause of the derailment was in part due to the drivers religious beliefs this is a difficult area to deal with, UK law dose not allow employers to discriminate on religious, ethical, sexual orientation etc. I know there was a lot of information and awareness briefings within the railway industry to all staff about Ramadam; asking us all to be aware and supportive of our colleges who may be fasting during Ramadam this year due to the extended hours, it also made it clear to those staff members that they could ask for changes to duties during this time if they needed it. The area of the industry I work in many Muslims swap shifts during Ramadam in exchange for working over Christmas The derailment at Paddington will not sourly be down to the actions of the driver Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TonyK on August 20, 2016, 23:18:01 The RAIB report says:
Quote From the evidence available, RAIB is unable to determine whether this interruption to his sleep, and subsequent fasting, was a factor in what happened on this occasion meaning his fast may have had nothing to do with the incident. It happened after 5 hours on duty, rather than at the end of a full shift. Had RAIB not put the observation that they couldn't tell if fasting was a factor, we wouldn't be discussing it now. Mind you, they would be failing in their duty had they not addressed the issue. There may be lessons to learn despite the lack of evidence of a causal link. I've said it before - accidents don't have a single cause, usually at least three. In this case, we have a new driver, a departure from the normal route into the platform, a change to the planned workings at short notice - and the fast. No one item on that list would be likely to cause problems on its own, but as a cocktail, they are dangerous. Perm any two from four. As an aside, I question the wisdom of having trap points that will divert a train doing a SPAD away from other traffic, but into a cantilever mast that, if damaged, will cause huge disruption to the railway. Probably no-one ever thought the trap would be sprung one day when planning either that or the mast, whichever came second. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: IndustryInsider on August 20, 2016, 23:44:06 As an aside, I question the wisdom of having trap points that will divert a train doing a SPAD away from other traffic, but into a cantilever mast that, if damaged, will cause huge disruption to the railway. Probably no-one ever thought the trap would be sprung one day when planning either that or the mast, whichever came second. IIRC, the basic track layout dates from work that took place in the early 90s, with the electrification installed later in 1997. Not sure if that particular gantry was installed from the outset though. If you look at the second picture in the report, the damaged gantry is shown, and the two carriage train has two other gantries between the front and the rear of the train. There's no room for any catch points in that location that wouldn't result in a collision with one of those three gantries if a train is doing such a speed that it runs off the end of the catch point rails. Part 4 of the incident summary given more details. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Electric train on August 21, 2016, 11:22:00 IIRC, the basic track layout dates from work that took place in the early 90s, with the electrification installed later in 1997. Not sure if that particular gantry was installed from the outset though. I believe that TTC structure was installed as part of the Bishops Bridge replacement, the original HEX OLE wire runs were anchored to the old bridge, the structure was probably installed to bring the wire height down for the bridge construction. As a note, Paddington station to Westbourne Park is due for a rewire by Crossrail because of the increased fault current levels introduced by the Kensal Green feeder station, this was not originally part of the Crossrail programme but is something the Route require, it is also to improve the OLE reliability for the IEP etc in the Padd and Royal Oak area Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TonyK on August 21, 2016, 15:30:25 It has just struck me that never before in the Great Western Coffee Shop has the question of whether an accident could have been prevented by a cup of char (government strength 6 or above) and a bacon sarnie been debated at a theological level.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: broadgage on August 21, 2016, 15:51:26 It has just struck me that never before in the Great Western Coffee Shop has the question of whether an accident could have been prevented by a cup of char (government strength 6 or above) and a bacon sarnie been debated at a theological level. I think that a BACON sandwich might have been particularly inappropriate ! a cheese roll perhaps more suitable ? Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: rower40 on August 27, 2016, 08:51:27 I don't understand why a signaller in a modern signalling centre should have to clear a route manually. Automatic route setting has been around for years. The down side of a computer system is of course the software. If something has been omitted then....you have to do it the old way.....the rule book is then written to cover the management's tail (whose omission it was). ARS doesn't operate for shunting movements, only for main timetabled signal routes. It was designed to relieve the signaller from having to set main running movement routes and thus allowed him/her to concentrate more on such shunt movements and other things. The trouble here 'might be' that the signallers overall workload is just to great an area to control at any one time when ARS has to be switched off or a train has to run out of pattern and that the ARS is not pre-programmed for #. # My personal opinion only Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TonyK on August 27, 2016, 23:02:41 I think that a BACON sandwich might have been particularly inappropriate ! a cheese roll perhaps more suitable ? Just checking that somebody is awake... Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on September 16, 2016, 15:32:09 RAIB have released a Safety Digest (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paddington-safety-digest/derailment-at-paddington-16-june-2016) for this accident
Quote Important safety messages This accident demonstrates the importance of: •Drivers using the resources available to them to refresh their knowledge of the details of the track layout and signals on routes which they do not drive over regularly, and using reminders such as route diagrams to check what they are about to encounter, before setting off over the route. •Assessing the risks of using trap points to protect lines and why assessments should include an examination of the potential consequences of derailing, such as the possibility of vehicles fouling running lines or encountering other hazards. •Drivers being alert to the possibility that, when a position-light signal is cleared the route may only be set as far as another position-light signal, rather than to a main signal or buffer stops. •Signallers complying with any local instructions applicable to clearing position-light signals when a route cannot be set all the way to a main signal or buffer stops. 2. Summary of the accident At 18:12 hrs on Thursday 16 June 2016, a two-car diesel multiple unit train, operated by Great Western Railway (GWR), was driven through open trap points immediately outside Paddington station and derailed. It struck an overhead line equipment (OLE) mast, damaging it severely and causing part of the structure supported by the mast to drop to a position where it was blocking the lines. There were no passengers on the train, and the driver was unhurt. All the the lines at Paddington were closed for the rest of that evening, with some services affected until Sunday 19 June. 3. Cause of the accident The daily station working at Paddington includes a number of instances in which trains are lengthened by attaching additional coaches to sets already in the platforms. One of these, in the evening peak, involves trains 5H52 and 3H52, which are planned to couple in platform 1 to form train 1H52, the 18:12 hrs service to Henley-on-Thames. Train 5H52 is formed of a three-car unit which, having arrived earlier in passenger service from Bedwyn, runs out of platform 1 into Royal Oak Sidings at 17:18 hrs, and should wait in the sidings until 17:42 hrs, and then return to platform 1. Train 3H52 runs empty from Reading depot, and is timetabled to wait on the reception line at Old Oak Common depot until 17:40 hrs, and then run directly to Paddington platform 1, arriving at 17:51 hrs and then attaching to 5H52. However, on occasions train 3H52 may be routed into Royal Oak sidings to wait there for the route into platform 1 to become available; this is what happened on 16 June. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/54698/Paddington_station_layoutv2.jpg) The approaches to Paddington platform 1 showing the routes set and the position of the trains after the accident (not to scale) Train 3H52 arrived at Royal Oak sidings at about 17:34 hrs, and soon after that there was a change to the planned workings. GWR decided at short notice, in response to increased passenger flows, that 3H52 should be used to lengthen train 1D61, the 18:18 hrs service to Oxford, rather than its planned use on 1H52. This decision was communicated to the signaller on the Paddington workstation at Network Rail’s Thames Valley Signalling Centre (TVSC) at about 17:40 hrs. At that time 5H52 and 3H52 were in Royal Oak sidings, and train 3D61, the empty carriages to form 1D61, was approaching the sidings from Old Oak Common. Platform 1 was occupied by train 1G60, the 17:42 departure to Cheltenham Spa. The signaller routed 5H52 out of the sidings and up to signal SN6004, to make space in the sidings for 3D61, while waiting for 1G60 to depart, which it did at 17:50 hrs, eight minutes late. 5H52 then ran into platform 1, to become 1H52. The driver of 3H52, who was still expecting to follow 5H52 into the platform, then called the signaller on the radio to ask what was happening. The signaller told him about the change of plan, and said that train 3H52 would have to wait in the sidings for another twenty minutes, until 1H52, the 18:12 hrs departure, had left Paddington, and then go into platform 1. At 18:11 hrs the signaller set the route for 1H52 to depart from platform 1. One minute later he cleared ground position-light signal SN6006 for 3H52 to leave the siding. The signal displayed two white lights to the driver, which authorised the train to run along the link line as far as the line was clear, up to a similar position-light signal, SN6004. Train 3H52 would then be ready to run into platform 1 as soon as 1H52 had departed. The driver of 3H52 started his train a few seconds after signal SN6006 cleared. He drove along the link line towards the station, reaching 25 mph (40 km/h), which is the maximum permitted speed on that line. Although he had not seen a train leave platform 1 since his conversation with the signaller, the driver had formed the impression in his mind that the clearance of signal SN6006 meant that the route was set all the way into platform 1. Signal SN6004 was clearly visible, but the driver did not realise that it applied to his train, so he drove past it although it was showing two red lights, meaning ‘Stop’. Immediately after he passed the signal the driver realised that his train was being diverted to the right, off the track, and so he made an emergency brake application. However, it was too late to prevent the derailment, and the first three bogies of the train ran off the end of the rails. The right-hand front corner of the train struck the mast of a cantilever structure (J 00 42) which supports OLE on line 1. The impact distorted the mast, and the cantilever dropped far enough to become a hazard for trains travelling on lines 1 and 2. The train was still moving at about 8 mph (13 km/h) when it struck the mast. The trap points diverted the train itself clear of the other running lines, and the derailed vehicles did not obstruct any other routes, so there was no risk of collision with another train. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/54534/train_and_OLE_mast.jpg) The front of the derailed train and the OLE mast, after the accident Train 1H52, departing for Henley-on-Thames, had begun to move along platform 1, when the derailment caused the signal at the end of the platform to revert to red. The driver stopped his train before reaching that signal, and the passengers on the train were able to disembark onto the platform. The driver of 3H52 had been trained by GWR, and qualified to drive trains in October 2015. During his training he had learned the routes out of Paddington, including the link line and Royal Oak sidings, but he had only driven over the link line once during his training, and on one further occasion since qualifying. He had copies of the line diagram for the route in his bag, and could have referred to them during the period that his train was waiting in the sidings. While his train was waiting in Royal Oak sidings, the driver of 3H52 sat in the passenger accommodation and used an electronic device to access the internet. There is no evidence that this device was used while the driver was in the driving cab of the train, or that it played any part in what happened next. Among the written special instructions to the signallers at TVSC is one that requires that, when a movement starting from a position-light signal requires to run via another position-light signal before reaching a platform, siding or main aspect signal, the signaller must clear all the intermediate position-light signals in the route first. When it is ‘absolutely essential to route such a movement as far as an intermediate position-light signal only’, the signaller is required to reach a clear understanding with the driver before the movement starts. Managers at TVSC said that strict compliance with this instruction is not possible at Paddington, because the station is very busy. However, the conversation between the signaller and the driver should have resulted in the driver understanding that his train could not enter the station until the 18:12 hrs departure had left. (https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/image_data/file/54535/signal_SN6004.jpg) The train from the rear after the derailment. Signal SN6004 is at the bottom right The driver of train 3H52 told RAIB that he had woken during the night before the accident at 02:30 hrs, to eat a light meal, as part of his observance of Ramadan. He went back to bed at 03:30 hrs, slept for a further seven hours before coming on duty at 13:07 hrs, and had not had anything else to eat or drink before the accident occurred. From the evidence available, RAIB is unable to determine whether this interruption to his sleep, and subsequent fasting, was a factor in what happened on this occasion. However, RAIB observes that there is research showing that fasting can affect people’s concentration levels. RSSB has published guidance for the railway industry on the topic in document S220 ‘Effects of fasting on fitness to drive’. 4. Previous similar occurrences The secondary risks that can result from the use of trap points to reduce the risk from overruns are discussed in our Bury safety digest. These risks were are also referred to in our Carrbridge investigation report. The OLE mast that was struck by the train is positioned 46 metres, the length of a two-car train, beyond the toe of the trap points. Network Rail’s standard for the provision of trap points (former Railway Group Standard GK/RT0064) requires trap points to be located so as to guide derailed vehicles away from other lines, structures, and any other hazards. In the congested area close to Paddington station, there is little scope for varying the relative positions of trap points and OLE structures, and the distance available beyond these trap points would normally have been regarded as sufficient for a train that derailed on them to be stopped. In this case, because the train was travelling at the maximum permitted speed, and its brakes were not applied until after it had derailed, the space was not sufficient and the structure was damaged. The importance of route knowledge for train drivers, with reference to the Paddington area, is discussed in Lord Cullen’s report on the accident at Ladbroke Grove on 5 October 1999. While train drivers may be able to regularly drive the running lines on the routes which they sign, it can be difficult to maintain familiarity with all the associated sidings and shunt movements. In such circumstances it is important that drivers have access to, and make use of, reference material such as diagrams of the lines and signals, to remind themselves of the signals applying to shunt moves before they start the movement. Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: chuffed on September 16, 2016, 15:40:56 I think that a BACON sandwich might have been particularly inappropriate ! a cheese roll perhaps more suitable ? Edit to correct format only Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: TaplowGreen on September 16, 2016, 15:41:24 "However, RAIB observes that there is research showing that fasting can affect people’s concentration levels" ...............I wonder if anyone will be brave enough to address this with those concerned who intend to fast in future as it clearly compromises safety............I know for sure that if I don't eat or drink for a lengthy period, I really struggle to concentrate, and I'm not in a safety critical role.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: paul7575 on September 20, 2016, 11:34:49 RAIB have released a Safety Digest (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paddington-safety-digest/derailment-at-paddington-16-june-2016) for this accident That's the same thing that was linked in post #129 when it was first issued, it doesn't seem to have been amended. Have you been somehow mistaken in thinking it is a new document because of the way RAIB show "today's date" on some of their pages? Paul Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: ChrisB on September 20, 2016, 11:42:53 They did send round a further email notification, so I assumed it had been updated, yes.
Title: Re: Derailment of empty passenger train at Paddington causes major disruption - 16 June 2016 Post by: Chris from Nailsea on December 01, 2016, 00:02:01 An update on media reporting of that incident, from the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (https://www.gov.uk/government/news/media-correction-raib-paddington-safety-digest):
Quote Media correction: RAIB Paddington safety digest Correction by The Sun following complaint to the Independent Press Standards Organisation (IPSO) The Sun – ‘Ramadan train driver in crash’, 20 August 2016 Background The Sun ran a story following RAIB’s publication of a safety digest on a derailment that took place at Paddington (https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/paddington-safety-digest/derailment-at-paddington-16-june-2016) on 16 June 2016. The article The article reported that a Muslim train driver had run through a double red light, causing his train to derail, hit a gantry and bring down powerlines. It claimed that the driver “crashed after going without food or drink for 15 hours during Ramadan”. It reported that “rail accident experts claimed his fast caused the rush-hour derailment”. The article went on to report that the Rail Accident Investigation Branch (RAIB) was “unable to conclude that fasting was a factor in the crash. But it pointed out studies showed not eating can cause ‘sleepiness and reduction in concentration which can result in safety concerns’”. The article also reported that the company operating the train in question had said that its drivers were “regularly briefed and monitored for competence”. Action taken RAIB was one of several complainants to IPSO. Outcome The complaint was upheld. The online version of the story was removed. On 19 November, a printed correction appeared on page 2 of The Sun. "In a story ‘Ramadan Train Driver in Crash’ (20 Aug) we implied that Rail Accident Investigation Branch said the cause of the derailment at Paddington was that the driver had been fasting during Ramadan. In fact they were unable to conclude that fasting was a factor in the crash on evidence available, although they observed that there is research showing that fasting can affect people’s concentration levels. It was also stated that the driver of a derailed train ran through TWO red lights at London’s Paddington Station. In fact the two red lights were on the same signal. We are happy to clarify." Read the full IPSO decision (https://www.ipso.co.uk/rulings-and-resolution-statements/ruling/?id=08089-16). This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |