Title: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: John R on June 06, 2016, 21:44:53 If I want to travel from A to B, but there is a cheaper fare from A to C, which is further along the line from B, then am I entitled to buy a ticket from A to B and never use the portion from B to C? I'm thinking about normal tickets, not advance tickets.
Looking at the NCoC, I'm not sure? The sections I'm interested in are highlighted. eg 2. Requirement to hold a ticket Before you travel you must have a ticket or other authority to travel which is valid for the train(s) you intend to use and for the journey you intend to make, unless the circumstances set out in (b) (i) or (ii) below apply. If I never intended to go to C, is this ticket now valid to alight and return from B? 13. The route you are entitled to take (a) You may travel between the stations shown on the ticket you hold in: (i) a train on which you are able to make your entire journey without changing trains; (ii) trains which take the shortest route which can be used by scheduled passenger services; or (iii) trains which take the routes shown in the National Routeing Guide. Again, does this entitle me to take a journey that isn't in relation to those two stations. You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. You may also end your journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) before the destination shown on the ticket. Doesn't say anything about starting the journey short on the return journey. Put to one side whether or not it can be evidenced whether the journey purchased is actually completed, as might be the case if C is an unstaffed station, or a cross London transfer is involved beyond B, what do people think is the legal position? There is such a loophole that I am considering using soon, but I only want to do so if it is clear that it is permitted. Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: grahame on June 06, 2016, 22:04:33 You may start, or break and resume, a journey (in either direction in the case of a return ticket) at any intermediate station, as long as the ticket you hold is valid for the trains you want to use. Doesn't say anything about starting the journey short on the return journey. Yes it does. With snips "You may start a journey in either direction at any intermediate station" Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: John R on June 07, 2016, 07:13:49 Thanks Grahame. Appreciate the clarification.
Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: ChrisB on June 08, 2016, 10:42:55 As long as the specific ticket's restrictions don't include a bar on finishing/starting short, yes you can.
Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on June 09, 2016, 21:32:50 This is where it starts to get horrifically complicated ... just using one example off peak open return... an 'svr' is valid for a break of journey....a 'gvr' is not, however just looking at the ticket they would both say 'off peak return', if you don't mind a bit of a read brfares.com is very useful
Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: ChrisB on June 09, 2016, 21:37:42 As I understand it, no break condition can be added by the fare setting TOC to any ticket, regardless of type. One needs to check the fare code each time
Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on June 09, 2016, 21:40:23 Taken from a random ticket but as chris points out needs checking for each one http://www.brfares.com/#faredetail?orig=HMY&dest=MTA&expert=on&flow=1&multi=0&fare=5&rte=700&tkt=SVH
Quote Ticket Code: GVR/BVR/SVR Ticket Class: STANDARD Ticket Name: OFF-PEAK Single/Return: RETURN Out Validity:- Day - DATE ON TICKET Time - SEE BELOW Return Validity:- Day - ONE CALENDAR MONTH Time - SEE BELOW Break of Journey - GVR (OUT/RTN) NO BVR/SVR (OUT/RTN) YES (SEE NOTES BELOW) Pre-Booking Requirement: NONE Reservations Compulsory: NO Child Discount: YES Railcard Discount: YES Group Discount: YES Refunds: SEE 'REFUNDS' SECTION Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: ChrisB on June 10, 2016, 08:54:37 As I say, it's not attached to the type of ticket, but the validity code - see further down that link, where it states
Quote BREAK OF JOURNEY Break of journey is allowed on the outward portion of Off-Peak tickets UNLESS OTHERWISE INDICATED BY A RESTRICTION SHOWN AGAINST THE TICKET'S VALIDITY CODE and in all cases on the return portion of Off-Peak return tickets. Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: stuving on June 11, 2016, 00:04:09 I think there's a specific reason why the example above (restriction code T2) is so confusing.
Under the heading "General Conditions (for this ticket type)", there are two bits dealing with break of journey for ticket type GVR: Break of Journey - "GVR (OUT/RTN) NO BVR/SVR (OUT/RTN) YES (SEE NOTES BELOW)" and, below that, under NOTES: "BREAK OF JOURNEY Break of journey is allowed on the outward portion of Off-Peak tickets UNLESS OTHERWISE INDICATED BY A RESTRICTION SHOWN AGAINST THE TICKET'S VALIDITY CODE and in all cases on the return portion of Off-Peak return tickets." That looks like a contradiction, though the restriction (or validity) code might resolve it. However, there is nothing about break of journey there. So those two statements do conflict. There is, however, another way of removing this apparent paradox - if there are no GVR tickets with code T2. I imagine that (if type GVR is actually used at the moment) there is a related code (or a set of codes) that goes with it. If that's how it really works, it means you need to be careful in drawing a conclusion from one of these bits of text covering multiple ticket types other than about a ticket you know exists. They appear to have lumped these types together so as to reduce the number of ticket type texts, and ignored the confusion that might result. Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: 6 OF 2 redundant adjunct of unimatrix 01 on June 11, 2016, 03:01:50 To be honest I used a poor example... As far as I am aware gvr's were a type of off peak return used by east coast from Edinburgh and Bewick to London and were priced between the regular svr and the sor .... The main point of my post was to show how complicated it is and the follow up was in no way to disagree with anyone else but in my mind was supporting what was said by others
Title: Re: Exploiting Fare Anomalies Post by: grahame on June 11, 2016, 03:43:47 To be honest I used a poor example... As far as I am aware gvr's were a type of off peak return used by east coast from Edinburgh and Bewick to London and were priced between the regular svr and the sor .... Ah - thank goodness for that - i was rather worried I had missed a common ticket type - but your post does remind me / everyone of the presence of (too many?) ticket types and exceptions. Where something less common is used ("exploiting anomalies" in the thread title) and it gives extra rights (as opposed to being more restricted at the GVR is), the passenger should be aware that staff may challenge - sometimes quite strongly. I can recall this happening to me on two occasions - once long enough ago for it to be water well under the bridge now, and once recently using an off-peak cross-London ticket where the minor leg was the GWR one, priced by another TOC with morning rather than both peak restrictions. This page is printed from the "Coffee Shop" forum at http://gwr.passenger.chat which is provided by a customer of Great Western Railway. Views expressed are those of the individual posters concerned. Visit www.gwr.com for the official Great Western Railway website. Please contact the administrators of this site if you feel that content provided contravenes our posting rules ( see http://railcustomer.info/1761 ). The forum is hosted by Well House Consultants - http://www.wellho.net |