Great Western Coffee Shop

As this is my final year with a young person's railcard, I'm planning on a ALR trip later this year to take advantage of the huge discount available on this ticket and burn some of my largely unused annual leave allowance.

I will start my week at either Cambridge or Cosham and don't need to return home at anytime if I'm doing 7 days.  If I end up going for 14 days, then I'll probably head home two or three times during the validity period.

Does anyone have any must-see destinations (both on and off the railway)?

On my list at the moment:
- Invesness to Thurso/Wick
- Inverness to Kyle of Lochalsh
- Settle to Carlisle
- Ffestiniog Railway
- Possibly Cornwall again if I have a spare day or two (did most of the branches last year, but really liked St Ives)

The far north line isn't actually that interesting, other than to tick it off the list.  I'd be more inclined to see whether you can get from Kyle to Mallaig or Fort William by other means and do the West Highland Line instead.

A trip down to Cornwall is recommended, and I'd also suggest you try and do the line from Edinburgh to Newcastle, making sure you sit on the coast side of the line. Finally, the Heart of Wales line is excellent, so a round trip including that and the Welsh Marches line from Newport to Shrewsbury is a good day out.

I did most of those when I did a Railrover in my final year of Uni.  I seem to recall it cost me ^80!

Don't miss Shrewsbury to Aberystwyth then up the Cambrian Coast line to Pwllheli (although it was better in the days of the old-style dmus when you could look over the driver's shoulder).

I'd recommending avoiding st Ives in school holidays. Same for Newquay.
They both get overrun with tourists and you can't enjoy the natural beauty of the areas as they are all heavily crowded.

Across the Pennines from Manchester to Huddersfield. Through the longest wholly level tunnel on the network at Standege. A line that runs up hill and down dale through mill towns that were drivers of the industrial revolution.

And your plans to go to Scotland. Take the Caledonian Sleeper in one direction at least. Excessing to 1st Class for a solo berth and Sleeper lounge car access. And if you grab a Single Malt  as a nightcap, have it how you like. With Dry Ginger and ice just to wind up CfN!

Oh and the Cumbrian Coast (not to be confused with Cambrian). Varied scenery. Coast, mountain and nuclear facilities.

And do let us know a rough itinerary, or update while travelling. I regularly have a regional rover in my ticket wallet. Paths might cross.

I heard that!!  :o ::) >:(

I have used a 14 day ALR the last two summers.

These accounts* might give you some ideas

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14256.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=14256.0)

http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15842.0 (http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=15842.0)

*These accounts are in our Frequent Posters section which is only available to those who have posted a certain number of posts.


Oh I am all for that!  You can pacify him by bringing back a sample though.   ;D

Indeed. A can of Canada Dry will only set you back a quid!  ;) :P ;D

May I thank bobm here for his very kind gesture in gifting me samples of 'Highland Park aged 12 years' and 'Tomintoul Speyside Glenlivet'.

They are both unopened, in my dining room, awaiting a suitably special occasion. They are not to be glugged down with ginger ale!  :o ::) >:(

Why not try some rarer routes. Grand Central 12.24 Doncaster Bradford You wind around what's left of the vast South Yorkshire Coal network. Then there's the Power station line from Knottingly to Selby via Eggborough and Drax.

Loco hauled on the Cumbrian Coast and drop off at Ravenglass for the Narrow (miniature) gauge

 As well as the Ffestiniog you could also look at the Welsh Highland (in my opinion more scenic than the Ffestiniog),  although you'd probably have to use a  bus one way as it's difficult to fit in a return journey in a day. So maybe a stay at Caernarfon Porthmadog or Ffestiniog. If only one way recommend Porthmadog to Caernarfon direction with the climb from Beddgelert to Ryhd Ddu.

Does it cover the Overground? If so why not the Outer Circle? North, East, South and West London Lines. Then there's the GOB. Gospal Oak - Barking. Fascinating glimpses  into London Life!

Then there's the Stockport Stalybridge FO One way "Ghost Train" as featured last night in Paul Merton's Request Stops.

For a fuller Choice look at "Passenger Train Services over Unusual Lines"

 http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm (http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/intro.htm)

I'm not a track basher! (Honest)

Invest a little more & fly up to Inverness on a cheapie....saves a day on the rover getting there/back

Definitely.   Despite what some LO staff seem to think, LO is a 100% normal TOC for national ticketing rules.

Paul

Ah ... threads such as this remind me of my youth ... I think these days I would take an all line rover as an opportunity to see at first hand what's going on across the UK rail network, selecting destinations of rail interest and seeing the more regular network elements between.

Some selections to take in.  Corby and north from there. Lowestoft. North Berwick. Leeds to Lancaster. Stranraer. Whitby. Cambridge to Ipswich.   Wolverhampton to Walsall (looks like it's diverted via Soho now?). Some Welsh Valleys - perhaps Ebbw Vale and Maesteg?  And some I've not done such as Cleethorpes.   I HAVE been on a train that called at Shippea Hill, but not got off or on there ... and at the other extreme I expect might end up at Waterloo at some point.

West Highland Line is an absolute must. The route from Edinburgh up to Aberdeen virtually along the coast is well worth it too IMHO.

I'd second that about the Edinburgh to Aberdeen route, much more scenic than you might imagine. It also crosses the Forth Bridge which is a bit of an event if you've not done it before and you can continue up to Inverness from Aberdeen as I recall.

Also some very good deals on hotels in Aberdeen at the current time if you needed an overnight stop, although going by anecdotal evidence from colleagues, the place is a bit subdued these days...

You might also want to have a look at the Heart of Wales route too. You could do a nice (approximate) figure of 8 through Wales/the Marches - SWML to Swansea > Shrewsbury via Heart of Wales > Llandudno Junction > Blaenau Ffestiniog (or to Bangor & bus to Caernarfon for Welsh Highland) > Porthmadog > Shrewsbury > Newport via Hereford or to Crewe or Birmingham depending on subsequent destinations.

If you are in that part of the world you can also catch the bus from Bangor to Llanberis and up the top of Snowdon on the mountain railway.  Planned to do that last year but high winds put an end to that, so going to have another try this year.

Thank you everyone for the great suggestions.  Plenty of interesting places to visit and I'll definitely need to spend the weekend sorting through everything!

Next job is calculating the optimum route to get in as many places of interest as possible, whilst minimising hotel expenditure.  With Ryanair's wonderful ^9.99 fares, I may well fly to/from Edinburgh or Glasgow (journeys I've done a few times this year already) on one end of the trip to reduce wastage on the rover.

I would also recommend the Stranraer line if you have the time.  Whilst not as spectacular as the west highland it still has some superb scenery.  I was up there the Sunday before last.  Your can get from Mallaig to Kyle by ferry to Armadale and then by bus, but not in the peak season as the train misses the ferry.  It's a tight connection at other times.  A final word of warning, don't forget that the Settle and Carlisle is closed north of Appleby until further notice.

An overlooked gem is Middlesborough to Saltburn by the sea for the sadly defunct steelworks at Redcar and on to Saltburn. The station and muriels are stunning !  Newcastle -Sunderland-Hartlepool-Middlesborough is also worth 90 minutes of anybodys time with sailing ships, a maritime musuem,a paddle steamer and a Travelodge  all within a short walk of Hartlepool station. Try not to time your visit with a nor-easterly gale as I did !

One of the last Lines to use ETT (Electric Train Tablet) using Tylers No 6 instruments.

Looking at berth supplements for the Caledonian Sleeper and Night Rivieria, would I be correct in assuming the following provided I hold a standard class railcard discounted all line rover valid for both days:

Caledonian Sleeper from Aberdeen to Euston: 1st class excess from railcard discounted standard anytime single (^103.95) to first class anytime single (^230.00) = ^126.05 plus a 1st class berth supplement ^43.00.  In which case, an advance berth at ^115ish would be much cheaper and simpler to book.

GWR Sleeper from Penzance to Paddington: only the berth supplement of ^60.00, as the solo berths are considered standard class so my ticket is already valid.  A ^49 advance may work out cheaper, in which case the ALR almost feels wasted.

I have just been booking sleeper berths in connection with my ALR next month.

Caledonian sleepers allow you to book berths only on line but they do insist your rover is valid both on the day of departure AND arrival. They also allow you to book evening meals and breakfast. I've got a 1st class ALR so upgrading wasn't an issue so upgrading on line may be a problem.

On the Night Riveria I've never seen ^49 advances. I've just paid ^60 for a berth on top of my ALR. They have to be done via telesales or at a station.

I think the insistence on having to date two boxes on an ALR when using the Caledonian Sleepers is wrong.

Normal ticket rules should apply. Once you've started your journey at a valid time you are permitted to continue it, even if it continues into a following day.

Obviously not an issue if you plan further rail travel on the day you leave the Sleeper, but what if your Sleeper trip is planned for the last day of your Rover? Will Serco deny you boarding?

Re the Festiniog and Welsh Highland, a round trip might be possible with part of it done by bus -
North Wales coast line to Bangor, bus to Caernarfon, Welsh Highland to Portmadoc, Festiniog Railway to Blaenau then to Llandudno Junction.

Out of interest - does the All-Line Rover still include travel on the ferry from Portsmouth Harbour to Ryde?  The Island Line is worth a visit if only for the vintage Underground trains.

I agree with you totally but the "both days" rule is clearly stated on the CS website.  I know GWR don't insist on it on their sleepers.

I'd like to understand Serco's rationale. They're not getting additional revenue from the Rover by insisting two boxes are dated. Overnight single journeys that straddle railway days don't require two walk-up tickets.

I'm puzzled by this dating business on an all line rover.  I thought the tickets were 7 or 14 sequential days rather that 4 in 7 or 8 in 15, so why the need to date at all, and how can dating loose you a day if you're on sequential days anyway?   

I believe some ticket issuing systems redundantly issue a set of boxes with all rover tickets.  Most don't, but some do.

The only real issue is using the rover overnight on the final day, as technically the ticket's validity ends at 0429.  A normal day ticket would allow you to complete your journey the following day.

Having already bought mine for next month (on line with GWR plus nectar points) I can confirm it is issued by them as a single ticket with no boxes.  That doesn't stop the odd member of gateline staff asking to see a dated box though!

I agree with Brucey that it is only really an issue on the final day - which in my case is the sleeper from Penzance, so I should be OK!

I agree with the comments about the West Highland (and Stranraer) being more spectacular than the Kyle line or the Far North. At this time of year you're more likely to see stags - they have a curious tendency to disappear in the autumn in the stalking season!

Getting between Kyle and the West Highland line is easiest using the coach from Kyle to Fort William. That gets included in the Freedom of Scotland ticket (as do several other useful coach links) but presumably isn't in the ALR.

I've just looked this up and come across "Spirit of Scotland" - same thing, or something different?

Spirit of Scotland map has some odd omissions - for example it doesn't seem to include that coach to Kyle, and doesn't cover certain rail lines either like Helensborough Central.  Also leaves out some CalMac ferries such as Claonaig to Lochranza and Tarbert to Islay / Jura / Colonsay.   Simplified mapping or real limits??

http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/spirit-of-scotland-map-1603.pdf

While not official sources there are two very good guide to rovers.

Barry Doe has his annual round up in the current issue of RAIL magazine - issue 800.

On line there is the GB Rail Rover Guide (http://www.railrover.org/).

Obviously changed since we used it some years ago. Sorry that Kyle to Fort William isn't included - it's a useful link.

The other omissions are probably about simplifying the mapping. Likewise omitting the whole of the Outer Hebrides from the map.

When we went we stayed in a B&B on Barra and the owners pointed out how often the weather forecaster stands in front of Barra.

According to the Scotrail website this map shows the available routes. Simply all TOC operated rail services in Scotland, all CalMac ferries in Scotland and a small number of CityLink buses. Importantly the coach links include Inverness to Ullapool (Stornoway, Lweis ferry), Kyle to Portree and Uig (ferry to Tarbert, Isle of Harris; & to Lochmaddy, North Uist), Inverness to Fort Wiiliam, Fort William to Oban ( for ferries to South Uist and Barra, as well as Mull, Tiree etc plus weekly to Islay and Kennacraig Mull of Kintyre), Oban to Tarbert (Loch Fyne), Kennacraig and Cambletown.
http://www.scotrail.co.uk/sites/default/files/assets/download_ct/spirit-of-scotland-map-1603.pdf
Combining the 'Spirit of Scotland' ticket with CalMac services would allow Central Scotland to Oban, ferry to Barra, bus & ferries Barra - Eriscay, South Uist, Benbecula, North Uist, Harris and Lewis, then ferry to Ullapool ( or return via Tarbert and Skye to Kyle) and to Inverness. The trip of a lifetime with varied and extraordinary scenery, and a glimpse of the ' different' culture of the Gaelic Western Isles.

The only other way to do that is using CalMac to travel either via Rothsay to Mull of Kintyre or via the Isle of Aran. Then Islay to Oban to Barra and return Harris or Lewis to Mainland.

What ever you do, I guarantee you will remember it for the rest of your life!

We did ferry Oban - Barra, then bus/ferry/bus/bus/ferry/bus across the Uists to Stornoway. That's a great piece of integrated transport, with a 40-minute connection between the two Uist buses at Benbecula Airport (which has a cafe and toilets). And the ferry from Berneray to Harris does the sea-going version of a slalom course.

Came back by way of Tarbert, the ferry to Uig, the coach to Kyle and the train to Inverness.

The pass didn't cover the buses from Barra to Stornoway, but did cover the two ferries. We met a couple of Scottish pensioners, who were doing the reverse of us - using their passes on the buses and paying on the ferries.

My apologies for the confusion I introduced by mentioning boxes on an ALR. When correctly issued there should be no boxes to date, as the ALR is a fixed period Rover of either 7 or 14 consecutive days. I'm so used to using Rovers with "3 in 7", "8 in 15" validity etc. that I rather confused myself when replying.

I still believe though that should you be using an ALR on its final day of validity you should be allowed to travel on the Caledonian Sleeper. Just as you can on a walk-up Single dated for the departure date, the outward portion of an Off Peak Return/Super Off Peak Return, or the final day of validity of a return portion. If you are still travelling at 0430 on the morning after the date on your ticket none of those tickets cease to be valid. Why should the ALR be any different?

Wouldn't it be more appropriate to compare to season ticket conditions - what are you allowed to do after midnight on those?  http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/times_fares/ticket_types/season_tickets.aspx says

So implies not after midnight ... mind you
* shouldn't "any 7 day period" mean that you can buy a season ticket at midday on a Monday and use it up to 11:59 a.m. on the following Monday?
* it does not say it has no validity outside that period - i.e. to 04:29 - just says it has validity within the 7 days.
I think I know what they mean though!

I also feel that the season ticket page is on interesting round when it suggests:

True enough, but these days the All Line Rover is essentially an off peak ticket in some places; I may be overstating it, but between school and college (gap year), I worked and took a couple of all line rovers - based at home in North West Kent and travelling out from Euston or St Pancras before 10 a.m. on many mornings ... something I would no longer be able to do unless I used CoC 18c and bought a local single ticket to join the long distance carriers!

On very long journeys, seasons aren't available!

I discovered this last week - I thought you could get a season between any two stations....not any longer. Presumably only those costing less than the ALR.

I was under the belief there is a formula (based on the Anytime fare) to calculate season ticket prices for combinations where one does not exist.  Is this not still the case?

There are certainly seasons that you cannot buy online from TOC website that are on their (long distance) routes.

.....would be interesting to know the details of the longest distance season ticket issued! I seem to recall a few from Exeter St Davids to London Zone 1.

There is a formula for calculating monthly or longer, but it uses a multiple of the weekly season to get to the answer. The formula table was posted as an image in my thread requesting about an odd length season ticket.

Indeed, the weekly has to exist to enable this formula

For completeness, see http://www.firstgreatwestern.info/coffeeshop/index.php?topic=16968.msg194378#msg194378  ;)

That refers to multipliers on daily rate for periods over a monthly. Not the sane as this. That doesn't deal where there's no monthly/wekly to base it on

You can get seasons from Berwick-upon-Tweed to London, quite pricey at ^2092 for a monthly!

Looking at my calendar, it seems that late September will be the earilest I can devote a whole week.

This is the plan for the first four days.  I have worked this out using a random week in July, as the timetable for September was not available when I started planning.  I plan on splitting this into two parts, returning home on the Friday morning (to reduce the amount of luggage carried and raiding my freezer for some home cooked food) then possibly getting the Penzance sleeper that evening.  But the plan for the latter part may change somewhat.

(http://s33.postimg.org/it9s52gz3/ALR.png)

A few thoughts that come to mind.  Evening travel may mean no view, so I'll have to check daylight hours and where I am travelling at those times.  B&B options are also limited in some places (I'm thinking Fort William), although there shouldn't be a huge demand at that time of year.

The Fort William to Kyle of Lochalsh section keeps proving troublesome each time I try to rearrange the schedule.  I did look at car hire rental as an alternative to the limited bus service, but one way rentals are hideously expensive.  I'll have to think about this some more.

I have a business trip to Aberystwyth in a fortnight, so hoping to see a few local places whilst travelling there, so may change the ALR plan depending on what I see this month.

Would you consider taking the train all the way to Mallaig?   See attachment for Mallaig to Kyle of Lochalsh journey example

That looks like a good alternative, I'll do a bit more research into it.

I assume you have decided to catch the 10:58 from Cardiff to Llanelli in order to use the Swansea District Line, beware that if doing your ALR at the end of September then the Severn Tunnel will be closed and journey times between Paddington and Cardiff will be increased by approximately 30 minutes.

Speaking of which...here's a link to the revised timetables now available on the GWR website:
https://www.gwr.com/travel-updates/planned-engineering/severn-tunnel

Thanks to RobT and team at GWR.

If I recall correctly, it is also the only express service into S.W. Wales, I think the other services which use the Swansea District Line call at minor stations between Port Talbot / Bridgend and Cardiff and hence are just as slow as the Swansea trains.

If you're after rare track, given that you seem to have nearly three hours in Llanelli, couldn't you stay on the Fishguard train to Whitland (also getting the Carmarthen avoider line in)? The stretch of track between Pembrey & Burry Port and Carmarthen (through Ferryside in particular) is probably the most scenic section of track in south Wales in my opinion. Whitland station is not my idea of a good place to wait for a train though.

Good point, well spotted.

See http://www.psul4all.free-online.co.uk/2016.htm

Try

Be aware that not all Fishguard trains are routed via the Swansea District Line and some use the main line and go around the Swansea station avoiding line and on through Gowerton. I've been on both.

Even when the Severn Tunnel is not shut, the connection into the Fishguard from the Paddington - Swansea at Cardiff train can be precarious.  It is a connection they will hold for a while and even let that 150 (if that is the allocated type) in front of the HST because of it going express after Bridgend. However, on one occasion in winter, it was a taxi onward for the few for the ferry on the late-running London train I was on.

I'm glad others have suggested the Mallaig/Kyle connection.  I've used it in both directions successfully (although I felt it necessary to say my prayers on the last occasion as we raced around Skye on the Stagecoach bus at 60 -I could see the speedo - as the driver made sure he had a stop for his sandwich and we got the ferry!).

I haven't been to Manchester Victoria for years, but on 6.7.16 do you think you're OK with a 5 minute connection - arrive from Huddersfield at 0733 and depart at 0738 to Southport?

Also it is a good 10+ minutes walk from Porthmadoc mainline to the Harbour. So if the Pwlhei train is late change at Minffordd your train stops at 11:35.

Re change at Man Vic Nationalrail website gives it as a connection.

Maybe, but it depends whether you want to run the risk of the rest of the day being thrown out of kilter.

The Mallaig ferry and Severn Tunnel closure have caused a slight rift in the plans.

I'll need to sit down and work out a new schedule.  I am considering flying to Edinburgh/Glasgow one evening, then working my way up to the Highlands, then back down south and into Wales.

Good point, I've been on both routes too using the Fishguard boat train. Also, note that it is only the daytime boat train that avoids Swansea. Other Fishguard services call at Swansea (Mon-Sat it isn't just boat trains any more, there are 6 daytime services each way now (although some of those are basically ECS moves, eg. the one only from Clarbeston Road), plus the nightime boat train).

Ahhh...the forth rail bridge gets my vote...I can still remember the sound of trains going over it. Although in this modern age it may be more dramatic standing underneath it rather than in the double glazed comfort of the train itself

Indeed, standing underneath it is a great experience.  I have never been over the bridge on a train, but think that'll be a priority when I rejig the plan.

I have done both. From memory if you want to stand under the bridge the northern side gives you a much better view. I wonder how long it would take to build something like that in the 21st century - what with elf and safety and all that!

I have (almost) decided there is too much to fit into 7 days.  Therefore I am considering either 2x 7 days or 1x 14 day rover.

14 days is much more cost effective, but it means two weeks away from home in one block (Cambridge isn't exactly the most easily accessible place to use as a base when exploring the UK).  It's a shame they don't offer 'x in x days' products, like the regional rovers, to allow for short breaks (to explore or rest) during a longer trip.

From a tracking perspective I don't know how x in x days would work - but then (for one thing) I don't know the limitations or capabilities of the gatelines.

The local products (e.g. Freedom of Severn and Solent, or Freedom of South West) have a separate coupon with boxes printed.  These boxes are to be completed with the day and month before starting travel that day.  They seem to work reasonably well, although some staff are not aware of the requirement for the boxes coupon!

Here's an example:
(http://s32.postimg.org/dpskzkh9x/Rail_Rover_Used_NLC_4140_Pembrey_Burry_Por.jpg)

(As an aside, that use ticket above from five years ago shows how ludicrous the fares system is.  A FOSS rover was considerably cheaper than 4x open returns from Cosham to Bristol.)

I think you just need to look slightly to the East to a small project being carried out by Transport Scotland.  The new Queensferry crossing is on track for completion later this year - so the answer is 5 years.  However, its health and safety record is somewhat blemished.  

Another such example - a 3 in 7 freedom of Southwest is cheaper than a return from most Cornwall locations to Portsmouth and possibly Cardiff (I cant remember if Cardiff is in the FOSW)

Looking at the Freedom Of South West rover validity map (http://www.nationalrail.co.uk/static/documents/promotions/Freedom_of_South_West_3.pdf), it is. I'm intending to use the 8-in-15 day version to explore Devon & Cornwall, I just hope the ATW guard at Whitland is able to issue it along with the return from Whitland to Cardiff I'll be needing to reach the rover area. Don't know if I'm going to need a seperate return from Crediton to Okehampton though, as that line isn't on the rover map. I may need some anytime singles too for pre-9am travel.

The second Severn crossing has just celebrated its 20th anniversary - it took a little over 4 years to construct - bear in mind the fact it is built on an estuary with one of the largest tidal ranges on the planet to complicate things. The project was completed on time, on budget and with no fatalities, the latter being an enviable record in comparison with the Forth Bridge - you might like to make fun of 'elf and safety', but proper attention to safe working practices DOES save lives and prevent injuries.

I've picked up a brand new updated Gwr ranger and rover tickets this morning and Okehampton has a dotted green line for both FOSW and FOD&C. Green dotted line means according to the index valid summer Sunday's only.

Reckon it be far better to Book a Berth on the Cally Sleepers than fly!

Why fly when you have paid for a Rover?

PS Settle to Carlisle is shut between Appleby and Carisle.

Reckon Ryde PH to Shanklin is a must.

Here's the new crossing behind the existing road bridge as seen from the "proper" bridge yesterday.  ;D
(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/fthque.jpg)

You can also take a cruise which takes you under the bridge which I did last year and is well worth it.
(http://www.mbob.co.uk/rforum/2015t/forth1.jpg)

East ? I thought the most easterly bridge was the Forth Rail bridge...maybe my geography is wrong!

No it was my geography that was wrong. It had been a long day!

Coz you save time usage on the Rover (it can start once you are in Scotland) - PLUS you still have to pay for a berth on the sleeper (not included in the rover price) which pretty much equates to the price of the flight most times.