Great Western Coffee Shop

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36273407 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-36273407)

I was under the impression that the UK had THREE primary long distance franchises. If FG are allowed to start a ^25 service from Edinburgh to London, can someone do this for Bristol to London?

They can request paths from NR, and subject to their, and the ORRs approval, yes.

To my knowledge, nobody has ever shown any real interest in open access on the GWML - the closest being the hopelessly optimistic Go-Op Yeovil to Birmingham via Oxford service.  That could be because the paths into Paddington aren't available, or there isn't a big enough market from the satellite routes - traditionally open access operators serve large places that don't have a direct service but are close to the main line.  I can't think of too many of them that are big enough and would be able to use the GWML.  Melksham aside of course!  ;)

Extracting revenue from current franchisee(s) was (still is?) a golden rule that open access operators weren't allowed to do.

I suspect First's argument that they won't is their stoppong pattern (Stevenage, Morpeth) and that the majority of London <>Edinburgh pax currently fly. By offering average ^25 fare, they will argue that they are extracting from the airlines, not the franchisee. And that First sre offering an earlier arrival than the franchisee is willing to run.

Looking forward to seeing their argument in court evidence as I can't see Virgin East Coast not challenging this

But isn't it always a laugh when someone you know would argue all day in favour of free markets starts bleating about too much competition being bad for customers (and for themselves)?

Richard Branson was well known for bleating about the iniquity in the airline market when he was trying to compete with the state backed operators.

Now Virgin is a state backed rail operator I hope he doesn't make a big deal out of experiencing free market competition. Healthy competition is good news for passengers. Although history tells us that Virgin Trains don't like competition. Rigourously enforcing (with DfT back up) the 'Moderation of Competition' cluase in the West Coast franchise.

Oh, I'm also all in favour of competition!

From the BBC link
Do I take this to mean that the full service promised in the Virgin East Coast bid (including half-hourly Edinburgh-London services if I recall correctly) has been authorised, or will only some of Virgin's services be going ahead?

No mention in the article of the other open access operator that applied to run new services on the ECML, which I believe planned Pendolinos from Kings Cross to Edinburgh. Are we to assume that hasn't been granted paths.

I've never heard of an open-access proposal on the GWML, but I've read forum posts describing the weekdays only PAD-Cardiff services as 'open access blockers', suggesting that they only exist to take up paths into PAD which otherwise might have been available for open access. Looking at Hull Trains, they run additional London services to/from a place the franchise only serves once a day, so perhaps Carmarthen might be an open access target? Another idea might be Hereford, would it be faster via Abergavenny and Bristol Parkway than the current Cotswolds route?

I read somewhere ()press release) that the ORR had refused the third operator's request.


And the demand from those destinations would be? Tiny, IMHO, even speeded up.

There is a surprisingly large market for services via Westbury, Swindon and Oxford to Birmingham, and for intermediate traffic, and at the time that the current TransWilts trial service was being formulated and put together, there was a need to be balanced in outlook and look at three different potential operators. The hurdle of impartiality was only finally crossed positively and certainly a few weeks before the December 2013 service start, and could have been the rock the whole thing foundered on.

An extra hourly London to Cardiff trains seems an awfully expensive way of blocking open access - suggesting that there's considerable commercial mileage in the services running.  And on present service of a train every 2 hours from Paddington to Gloucester and Cheltenham, wouldn't the path of that service be available in the 'other' hour. But not sure where the service would go - Lydney and Chepstow?  Parkway, Henbury, Avonmouth and Clifton Down? (I can quite imagine a through London service from the north west of Bristol being attractive)

Mentioned very early in ORR's decision letter.   Always better to go to the source, the BBC probably saw 'GNER' and ignored it as being out of date info...  ;D

Cardiff - Paddington has a Service Level Commitment franchise requirement of half hourly between 0545-1845 Mon-Fri. And in the other direction, half hourly between 0730-1930. So if any open access blocking is being done it is at the behest of the DfT. GWR aren't running the half hourly service because they want to. They have to.

An other hourly path between Cheltenham/Gloucester and London via Kemble may be available now, but won't be from 2018. The franchised service is planned to be hourly when the Class 800s are introduced.

They do now, but it's not always been that way. It was a priced option in the 2006 franchise, so until 2013 (or 2016 if the full ten years had been taken) it wasn't totally up to the DfT.   But clearly First bid a price that the SRA felt able to work with, even though a lot else was lost at around that time.


http://www.assembly.wales/Committee%20Documents/EDT(2)%2009-05%20Paper%204%20-%20Strategic%20Rail%20Authority-29062005-21056/n0000000000000000000000000032993-English.pdf

If you're calling at small stations in Bristol, why not do the same at the other end? I'm imagining something like a Clifton Down to Dagenham Dock service.  :D

The interesting thing is to see where people want to go where they're not catered for and where is practical.  That whole expanse of the city of Bristol, including the chic and green-tending Clifton crowd, would likely love to go straight on the train.   Where in London?   Well Paddington's too far west for lots of people, Waterloo's done.   How about West Brompton (folding cycles only at that station), Peckham Rye and Lewisham? Stabling at Hither Green, or is there no space any more?

Perhaps that's why the 07:15 London Paddington to Cardiff Central is always the first to go when there's a shortage of HSTs.

Todays Metro carried a story about First Group replacing Virgin East Coast in 2019. From what I'm reading here that's not necessarily true. It did seem odd at the time of reading that a franchise that has only been running a year or so would be up for grabs so soon.

As is often the case what you see in the printed Metro newspaper doesn't appear in the online version so I can't provide a link unfortunately.

And you misread it....First are the [open access] operator on that route winning rights for 5 trips a day between London & Edinburgh with stops solely at Stevenage, Newcastle & Morpeth. They'be won a 10 year licence, not a franchise

It was a very badly worded paragraph that said "Train operator First Group has been granted a ten-year deal to run services on the East Coast main line from 2021.  It claims it will offer cheaper fares than Virgin Trains, which currently holds the franchise."

I should imagine most members of the public would read that as Virgin being replaced by First.

Re the idea of a Bristol Suburb to London through service. What about Clifton Down to Hampstead Heath. Linking to posh neighbourhoods!

However the problem with any Cross London Service is that Overground have got practically all the paths on the North East South and West London Lines which form the links.

Also there is the stupid arrangement at Highbury and Islington which prevents through services from the Western End of the North London Line to the East London Line. Someone decided raising pantographs in a station was a bad idea. Despite the fact that has ben done millions of times at Farringdon with no problems.

That's not the reason AC/DC changeover isn't done, it is just not required because there is no capacity for through services onto the NLL without reducing the number of through services to Stratford, and eastbound trains from the NLL to the ELL would cause crossing conflicts with westbound trains anyway.  There have been suggestions to alter the track layout to the west to pairing by use, so that the ELL can join the southern pair of tracks, but that presumes that the existing operation with the outer tracks of four being used as long freight loops is unnecessary.

People have also suggested through running from the ELL towards Finsbury Park, which is not possible because of crossing conflicts,  that being solved by flyover junctions - also not possible because there are too many over bridges.

It's also the case that Overground has resisted the temptation to run services all the way round, as the performance implications would be considerable. Thus the breaks at H&I and Clapham Jn.  Still, we've digressed from East Coast open access somewhat!